Monday, September 19, 2005

Q. Who said this?

"ונוסף ע"ז והוא העיקר אשר בשבת הוד כ"ק אדמו"ר האמצעי על כסא הנשיאות בליובאוויטש (בשנת תקע"ד) נתן צו ופקודה לכל העיירות בפלכי רוסיא הלבנה שהחסידים יבנו להם בתי תפלה ביחוד, ולא יכנסו להתפלל אפילו באקראי בבתי הכנסת ובתי מדרש של המתנגדים, והעובר על זה יענש בריחוק. והיו מקרים אשר האדמו"ר האמצעי צוה לאנ"ש הדרים בעיירות אשר לא הי' שם מנין אנ"ש שיתפללו ביחידות, וקריאת התורה לשמוע מאחורי הדלת או החלון"

Chassidim should build their own Shuls. They should not daven in The Shuls of the Misnagdim even temporarily, or per chance. There were cases that the Mitteler Rebbe told Chassidim in Towns where there was no Chassidic Shul that they should Daven on their own without a Minyan. and they should hear Krias HaTorah through the door or window.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think it was a time-specific statement, sir H.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Duh!
My point is not that you should not daven in Lakewood Minyan or your local Shul, but rather to bring out a point, Sir CE.

Anonymous said...

And your point is...?

Anonymous said...

I think we need Amshinover here quick!

Anonymous said...

when was this rescinded? are we allowed to daven in a Misnagdishe Shul today?

AMSHINOVER said...

on Wednesday, August 10, 2005
you posted "Why the hate?" you have answered your own question

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

no, Amshi, you're mistaken. This was a reaction to the hate, and after 60-70 years!

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I see I hit a sore spot with Amshinover. I did not mean to. Please don't see it a personal affront. We can agree to disagree, or maybe you can convince me otherwise.

AMSHINOVER said...

i'm sorry maybe you confused me with some pansy jblgger?to me there are no sore spots (no 1/4 asked or given)
2)this type of sinking to the litvaks level has always led to more pain.1 litvak is bad 2 is a cherem.

Anonymous said...

To answer CE's question,
Maybe the point was that Chassidim need to join together and display their staying power? They had been persecuted by then for 70-80 years and should not take it anymore?

Anonymous said...

I find it hard to believe that even after joining with Litvishe Gedolim at Rabbinic conferences the Tzemach Tzedek would still write something like that.

Anonymous said...

Where in the shu"t is this printed? could you give a better address?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Anon
the truth is I have yet to find it. I did, however, hear it on a tape from a lecture given by Rabbi Berel Wein, world's greatest Jewish Revis------, I mean historian.

Anonymous said...

Tzig,
you read AND quote the Lubavitcher babbe mayses
but...
call R'Wein a revisionist?
Amshinover:Are you a chusid of the Rebbe from Bayit VEGAN?
If you are were did you get the hate for Litvakes?SURELY not from the Rebbe who is A)A loving man B)The son of a Lutvak.If you are a chused of Boro Park....

Anonymous said...

Yeruchem, I guess you need to rethink history.

pipik, so much katnus hamochin caused by this one that you post twice?! I thought better than you. Until I see you insult the FR. And you expect to be taken seriously here?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Unfortunately Pipik is not alone in this, it's quite popular today to doubt and totally negate the FR. (even amongst other Chassidim)

Anonymous said...

Which Teshuvah is it

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I'm working on it. Maybe I'll need to call Rabbi Wein or send him an e-mail.

AMSHINOVER said...

i can ask RBW, but that is not the point ,it is mamesh time to move on.let the hate die in europe besides these old fights are tiresome,we still have not brought R'a.Bar katela(Kotler)to justice

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

Why do Chassidim have to be the ones to move on and forget, while they can continue with their rhetoric?

AMSHINOVER said...

Why do Chassidim have to be the ones to move on and forget, while they can continue with their rhetoric?

because reb hirshel we chassedim are base our nussach of yiddishkiet on love they do not.(SEE FOR EXAMPLE THE STORIES OF HIRSHEL TZIG maybe you heard of him??)

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

oh
:)

Anonymous said...

Amshinover:You did not answer my question about who your Rebbe is.
Hershel:I have to commend you, seriously.I did not think you would 'chap' to what I alluded to regarding 'versions' of history.You are right of course,non Lubavitchers view it as an historic novel which can be an interesting read, by the facts are clearly not actual 'facts'.
S(The reason I had to couch my terms was because of 'pachad' from the 'tzenzor')

Anonymous said...

'' can ask RBW, but that is not the point ,it is mamesh time to move on.let the hate die in europe besides these old fights are tiresome,we still have not brought R'a.Bar katela(Kotler)to justice''
So so silly.
But you spent thousands and lots of diplomatic good will to save the library in Warsaw...........while live Jews were burning.
That's 'yoisher' Sad.
(And repeating the same shtus in Russia for umpteen years again)

Anonymous said...

And you are such a Rosho that you would consider one a contradiction to the other in order that the feier zol flakern.

First a Mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim, then a Holech Rochil and Toen Sheker. What next?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

I see our blog must go on, we have much work to do , my friends. With people like Pipik around we may not rest. The truth is he's not to blame, he's had his played with. This that the Chazon Ish drank orange Juice in Bnei Brak and din't lift a finger to save his brethren in Europe doesn't bother him, The Rebbe he has Taanos against.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

he's had his played with
=he's had his head played with.

Anonymous said...

I've never heard Tzigs 'novel' argument that the Chazon Ish did nothing.
Quite pathetic........as if people in than Palestine could do a great deal.The money and power was in America not Eretz Yisroel .Chabad proved that if need be they could move mountains to SAVE WHAT WAS IMPORTANT TO THEM!!!!!!
(What happened with the Library in Warsaw at the end?)
Amshinover:Do you mind answering which Amshinover Rebbe you follow?

Anonymous said...

Guravitzer:What was Sheker in what I wrote?

Anonymous said...

Oh, you mean like the Keren Hatzolah, that only rescued who was important to them?

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

For some reason the Ponovizher Rov didn't think so. He thought Palestine could do plenty.

Anonymous said...

Right.Do you even know how many Jews lived in Eretz Yisroel during the time, eh?
Lot of work to do,folks.

Anonymous said...

avremel said...
Oh, you mean like the Keren Hatzolah, that only rescued who was important to them?

Avremel, I know you are a Chabadsker who has been programmed to believe that only Chabad did, does and will do.The truth however is :Lubavitch did 'diddly squat' for Jews during the war.Now you may say,'What could they do they were a small group?' .True, but, then why start a war with keren hatzoleh, when you do zilch,and when it was important you found, money, diplomatic ties even for a library, while Jews burned in Warsaw!You still want to be taken seriously?
For Shame. (and Tzig will probably censor this post)

Anonymous said...

Pipik said: "The truth however is Lubavitch did 'diddly squat' for Jews during the war."

that's right, they just drank Vodka and cursed Misnagdim.

Anonymous said...

And claimed that the Previous Rebbe was about to me nisgaleh as Moshiach.......

Anonymous said...

and cursed Misnagdim.
All the while Reb Yaakon Kaminetzky and Rav Ruderman, and Reb Moshe Feinstein, and Reb Elya Meir Bloch, and the Tzelemer Rov, and the Mattersdorfer Rov were busy saving Jews by the millions, right?

Anonymous said...

and Reb SF Mendelovitch.
and of course it was very important in 1943 to print Shev Shmaytses in Shanghai when people were starving to death.

Anonymous said...

Nobody in Shanghai Starved to death.
Another Chabadsker fairy tale.Add that to their famous collection.
No wonder that many believe the Rebbe is still alive, fantasy haS always been a big part of Lubavitch.
We have a lot of work, folks!
(Tzig, I hope you are not angry that I stole your tag line. It'S a good one and very true!So many brainwashed people out there who can't face reality)

Anonymous said...

The post above was mine

AMSHINOVER said...

pipikel
Do you mind answering which Amshinover Rebbe you follow?
how do you know i am not the Amshinover rebbe

Anonymous said...

It is obvious from the style of language that this quote was not written by the Tzemach Tzedek.

I'm sure about it.

Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...

are you accusing me of making it up?

Anonymous said...

who died and made an expert on if he said it or not?

AMSHINOVER said...

even if what Anonymous said that the quote was not written by the Tzemach Tzedek, is wrong(i think he is right,the style is not wordy enough).
without the mar makom (which should be in the maf'tach volume)we do not know the context(consider the length of most of his writtings), what seems to be le'genai, might be le'she'vach.

I'm NOT so sure about it.

Anonymous said...

Amshi:I have a feeling I know who your rebbe is
vda'l

AMSHINOVER said...

Amshinover's rebbe is RBW

chabad historian said...

These takanos regrading relationships with misnagdim were mad by the Mitteler Rebbe while still while the fire of machloikes was still raging. Thus, the Mitteler Rebbe wanted to his chassidim to avoid confrontationn with misnagdim, and therefore made these takanos.