?ר' איד, וואס לאכט איר אזוי? אויף וועמענ'ס חשבון
?ר' עמרם? איר זענט אויך דא
איך בין דאך דארט אויפגעוואקסן, און איך ווייס ווי איר האלט .....
? איך גלייב נישט. וואס זוכט דער בורשטינער צדיק דארט? ער פלעגט דאווענען אלץ קינד ביי אים אין שול?
.....וולפא, דאס איז דער מכה בפטיש
הרב שוויי זיצט כשושנה בין החוכים
.....דער גרויסער פאטער , היינט שעפט ער שוין נחת פונעם זונ'דל
DALOY HUNGARIANS IN LUBAVITCH!!!!
I'm not sure what brought this on now. Maybe it was the passing of Reb Moshe Morozov, who was once very actively involved in the whole process, before old age prevented him from continuing. Or maybe it was the fact that people ask me all kinds of questions and I figure that if they get their info elsewhere it might not be as good as if they get here. But I want it all here on the table, going back to ששת ימי בראשית. Why, after years of using Rav Osdoba for their agenda, they decided that he isn't good for them anymore, and especially why the Russians decided now that a young Hungarian is good for them and their agenda? I'd like your input, please. I know the answers, more or less, I just wanna hear ALL the details here. Years ago they needed Rav Marlow for their power struggle and they got him and used him, but what good is Braun for them now?
I started this thread on Thursday, when we weren't sure if there would be a Hachtoroh or not, but now that there was one last light, and they brought out anybody that RYYB had a shaychus with as a child until he joined Lubavitch, I'm even more intrigued. I look around at those in attendance and all I see is rabblerousers, troublemakers and those looking to destroy Lubavitch for personal reasons. And, of course, locals looking for a bite to eat and a way to pass the time. And some bachurim. And they too were sent to the coronation by the leadership of OT, which also is part of the troublemaking crowd, as was the MC, one of the first to make himself big by destroying what others built with their sweat and tears, and using the "Moshiach" issue to the appeal to the ass - , I mean masses. I don't usually discuss internal Lubavitch politics, but I'll do it, and may G-d forgive me, for I know not what I'm doing here.
235 comments:
1 – 200 of 235 Newer› Newest»The monster that they fed/feed will bite them.... Mark my words!
YT Sheiny
I thought so too, but R' Braun looks like he's in their pocket.
He will screw them all both sides!!!
and I spoke to reb amram today he said he wasa tricked into coming and was told that all parties are in agreement... he was lied to... but as always hopefully he will give out a letter saying so.
Last night was truly sad. While repeating calls for achdus, without the Braun family friends all we'd see there were the same old partisan faces. Sad.
We are starting a rehab program in lakewood for former lubavitchers who wish to rejoin mainstream judaism
lakewood needs the rehab, Grainom
Why would i want to join the mythological religion of 'Lakewood Judaism?'
I won't get my hopes up too high here. I doubt the discussion will stay on topic here. Grainom already steered it off. Thanks, G.
The lesson of why Moshe Rabeinu had to spend all that time in midyan is brought out very clearly here. Braun won simply because he was a fresh new face that wasn't (yet) mixed into all the filthy local politics. The masses voted for him out of disgust for the locals and a naïve hope for the future, and here you have him laughing all the way to the bank. The problem now is that osboda will be forced to resign as per not obeying the psak din, like it or not. He should have showed his face and taken r rosenbeg et al to a din torah starting this morning for the issues raised.
Truth to be said, braun does make a nice first impression as someone who will take his job seriously and try to raise the banner of Kan tzivo once again.
Tzig efsher bist du geven a misnaged in an andereh gilgul?
Anything for a fellow yid, hirshel.
HIRSHEL-
The arrival of R. Braun is a "tipping point" in contemporary Lubavitch affairs. Please give us your analysis in a clear and comprehensible manner. You know the actors on the stage-let's hear what's really going on.
Shvai aint no shoshana, he's a raving frothing at the mouth incoherent meshichist. I was shocked by his performance. The only part of his speach he rehearsed was yechi.
I haven't been in Crown Heights in about 5 years and am definitely not familiar with the local crowd or politics. But just asking...did I miss an official change in Chabad minhag...to round hats and lange payos?
no, Akiva. It was for one night only.
Grainom
I was kidding.
But he once was a sheine talmid chochom. Likutei Torah/Torah Or ken er fun Oysveynig. daled Chelkei Shulchan Oruch iz er "klor."
He just sold his soul for the job...
"lakewood needs the rehab, Grainom"
With all the info about Lubavitch out, all the infighting that puts Satmar to shame(mesirehs,shomrim6 etc..)you can saythat with a straight face??
Forget it.Forget that logic for a sec:
YOU yourself said you hadnever even been in BMG!!!
HOW CAN A NORMAL PERSON SAY MEVINEHS WHEN HE HAS NO IDEA about whathe is talking about?
What a mess Lubavitch has become
Groinim
Cunin is very good at getting grants to fund rehab. Tzig could put you in touch with him if you can regain his good graces
all the infighting? haha. Please. In Satmar a "coronation like this would have cops from 123 precincts rushing to the scene. Here we had bulkes and Yechi. And I was talking about the town of Lakewood, not BMG. Lakewood is far bigger than BMG.
Shvei is a nice man.Anybody who knows him will tell you this.Including yours personally who knows him, despite my personal problems with Lubavitch and their theology
BUT
The problem is not Shvei's.It's lemaloh bekeidesh.People who know Lubavitch well, know that The Meshichisten are the ones carrying on the problems started years ago when Lubavitch decided to go on their strange path.
If you keep up with Lubavitch you"ll see that slowly but surely their theological issues are coming out of the woodwork for all to see.All those sichos that had been shushed up.What other Yiddishe group has ever had a "shlit'a" problem???With so many people "rabbonim" not accepting gimmel tammuz?.This is only a precursor of the "borenuniks"
Sad, but true.
Marlow , btw, was also a Yechi zogger
"And I was talking about the town of Lakewood"
Lakewood has it's share of problems like anywhere else.If anything it's in better shape than most frum places.
One thing we have to realize is that of the derech youth, human passions are something innate to humankind, since Odom Horishon.This is a Satmar,Litvishe,Chabad and everyone elses "problem".I do believe that Frum infighting makes ALL youth less respecful of their beliefs
"He just sold his soul for the job.."
He did not sell his soul, he is a feineh mentsch.The problem is what is worse for a manhig in a public role:Someone who believes in this trash or a faker who at least knows wrong from right?
Is there anywhere were the droshos can be heard?
It's going to be interesting to see what family and former friends think of the Yechi antics at this hachtora?
Lubavitch looks like a freak show lately.Actually for the last twenty years at least.
"I know not what I'm doing here"
Your a morid bimalchus of our Rebbe, our Moshiach! You can leave, Lubavitch doesn't need you. Koshin gairim leyisroel...
Facts are Facts: The Chassidus Mashgiach in OT is a Mechutan with R Shchwei. He and RNS instructed the bochrim to go, not the "leadership." The bochrim had no idea what was going on and later most of the hanholo is up in arms against it-- but it was after the fact.
"Why would i want to join the mythological religion of 'Lakewood Judaism?'"
Mottel, that was deep!
Stay with your tweeter day job
This whole Braun thing is a continuation of classic meshichist syndrome.
Lying, deceiving, doing just about anything in order to get their ways.
The leaders are shakranim mefursomim, as the shita is meyusod on sheker.
Hashem Yerachem...
HT, I'd love to set u straight but don't have the time. So I'll just point out a few things.
1. The first comment is onto something, IMHO the yechis r going to regret bring braun on. He's an independent thinker and won't tow their line.
2. Shvei is a gentleman, major talmid chochom and no fifth chelek or (for lack of a better word) testicles of his own. He's a puppet of some major baalei macholokes who put him in as their front man. He can't think for himself and will do whatever he is told.
3. NS is an unterveltnik baal machlokes who uses his position to advance his agenda. He may have overplayed his hand last night, and that might be the most interesting thing to watch for the next few weeks.
He's an independent thinker and won't tow their line.
He claims "no pniyos" in his derasha.
Tzig, i usually appreciate your opinion on non-Lubavitch issues, but here you overstepped, revealing you vile hate to fellow Lubavitchers. "They used Rabbi Marlow," who you kidding? The man didnt have a head on his shoulders? Tzig, you're nothing but a rabid anti-semite! And that's coming from a Lubavitcher.
Shmerel
stating my opinion doesn't make me an Anti-Semite, my friend.
Anybody who knew him knew the Meshichism wasn't real. Nor was it by R Osdoba.
"stating my opinion doesn't make me an Anti-Semite, my friend.
"
That's correct. Your underlying vile opinions do. (where did i state otherwise?)
"Anybody who knew him knew the Meshichism wasn't real."
Talk for yourself! You sound ridicules! I actually knew an erliche, chassidisher yid who actually took his rebbe's words at face value (sorry you weren't told about this when joining Lubavitch, but that's the custom here).
Again, i implore you to stick to topics you're familiar with! (I'll appreciate it - if i could still get myself to return to this blog again...)
you knew it by saying !ס'קומט א גרויסער טאג, רבותי
Shmerel
lunch is over in OT, back to the Gemoroh.
Shmerel said...
Tzig, i usually appreciate your opinion on non-Lubavitch issues, but here you overstepped, revealing you vile hate to fellow Lubavitchers. "They used Rabbi Marlow," who you kidding?..."
HT, shmerel is partly right. RM was a meshichist thru and thru. He wasn't into the chanting and flag-waving, but he was definitely a yechi guy. This blinded him to to the company he kept and they used him to kasher their drek and political agenda. His biggest fault was not seeing where the fisher mess will lead to, and by the time he caught on to what he was being dragged into, it was too late and he was stuck with it.
You're right about one thing, shmerel is probably some 20 yo shnook who only knows what some "mashpia" fed him and we now know which side his loser mashpia was on.
HT,
I agree with Anon 3:52 completely, but I really dont know why it's so hard for people to come with a name - any name - sheesh.
“The lesson of why Moshe Rabeinu had to spend all that time in midyan is brought out very clearly here. Braun won simply because he was a fresh new face that wasn't (yet) mixed into all the filthy local politics.”
Reminds me of the old vort, when Klal Yisroel thought Moshe died, why did they make an Egel of gold, they had Aaron, Yehosuah, Chur etc. Answer, “better a cow from afar than a Gadol from here”. There is also a Shut Chasam Sofer about certain towns not allowing a loacl to become Rov.
Braun won because most of CH is mishichist, just get used to it.
Its sad how these Meshichists are so delusional that they don't even realize what chamorim they make themselves into by saying Yechi in front of a non chabad audience. Its so sad to see over and over again.
Braun won because Rabbi Bogomilsky was an older person who has arbitrated hundreds of DIn Torahs and the people who lost in his DIN TOrahs voted against him..
CH is not a majority of Michichits.
Look on the bima last night Reb AMram was lied to and was told the both Rabbis would attend.
Were there any ROshei Yeshiva from any yeshiva there? were there any member of Tsach ( Butman etc ) were there anybody from Bais SHmuel of Kolel Yungerleit , were there anybody who didn't wear a yechi pin there.
Take away the bochurim who came just to watch the spectacle ( which was a 25 to 1 ration bochur to yungerman )
You have a total of maybe 150-200 yungerleit also most BT's who attended....
Look closely....
Was Rabbi GOrelik a michichist rov who speaks each week in 770 there? was Rabbi Heller there?? Abir Shababrim... ???
Was any of the mazkirus there??
THe answer is NO!!!!
This is inside baseball. Please provide the background of this story. The players and their positions. We come here to learn.
Peoria, 933 miles from 770.
Anon
"Braun won because Rabbi Bogomilsky was an older person who has arbitrated hundreds of DIn Torahs and the people who lost in his DIN TOrahs voted against him.."
The Braun side won with close to 100 votes, his side was more aggressive and was leading a dirty campaign vs. the other side, I don't think the din torahs of Rav Bobemilisky had anything to do with his loss, but you saw from the votes that the Meshichstin are not the majority of the vote in CH
Anon 3;52;00
Is his son of North Miami also a Meshichist?
Shmerel
"I actually knew an erliche, chassidisher yid who actually took his rebbe's words at face value"
but a big Tippesh, it is not a contradiction
Anon,
"The first comment is onto something, IMHO the yechis r going to regret bring braun on. He's an independent thinker and won't tow their line."
You are so correct,the Braun family are not listeners , he will disappoint alot of them
Tzig,
I dont see how dismissing me as an OT Bochur (which agav happens not to be the case) helps your case.
Anonymous 7:53:00,
You remind me of a story i recently read:
Yossel was known as the town Mishugg’ne. He walked with his head down, and kept pretty much to himself. He smelled pretty bad, and was very, very simple – without much brains, thus he earned himself that title.
One day, Yossel was walking along the road, and as he was walking, a Goyishe Nobleman was riding by on his horse. As he passed near Yossel, the nobleman mistaking dropped a purse full with money. Picking up the purse, Yossel ran after the horse screaming “hey, you dropped your purse!” at first, the nobleman brushed “this Jew” off, but Yossel didn’t give up, and kept on chasing him. Finally, the nobleman stopped to find out what “this Jew” wanted, and Yossel told him about his purse. Without even giving a thank you, the Goy grabbed his purse, and rode off.
All the townspeople started laughing at Yossel, saying “wow, you must really be a Mishugg’ne, you had a fortune in your hand… you could’ve done so many good things with that money, and instead you gave it to that Goy who is going to do who-knows-what with!”
Yossel then picked up both of his hands and cried out: “Ribono Shel Olam, oh, how I thank you for making me a Mishugg’ne, for if I would have a “normal” person; I would’ve been a thief!”
whtas the difference between tzemech tzedek in monsey and sydney?
http://chabad.info/images/originalsize/3670/367023.jpg
Is it not clear from this that Rabbi Osdoba is in the wrong ?
Wow ! Rabbi Brown Senior really aged since back in the day in CS. Mazel Tov to Rabbi Brown Jr.
Shtar Birurin,
Please! Let's try not to disturb Tzig with the facts... he made his hateful position clear already...
the facts are that the only people happy are the ones that destroyed it in the first place, so we can all agree that they have ZERO interest in "Sholom and Peace"
That's BESIDES for the fact that Rosenberg didn't follow his own rules. I love how we can all tell Rabbi Osdoba what to do now. No more Kovod HoRabbonim anymore, only if it pertains to R Schwei....
the shtar berurin are clear that r osboda is wrong for not following the psak
right or wrong, the psak stands at the moment
Tzig,
"we can all agree"
Again he speak for all...
"Rosenberg didn't follow his own rules"
Please substantiate that!
"I love how we can all tell Rabbi Osdoba what to do now"
Oh nebach! So sad! Telling him to adhere to what he SIGNED!
Its unfortunate to see how illogical you sound when hate gets the better of you.
This one silly post of yours has forever altered my view of you.
Hirshel ,did you read the second to last paragraph of the shtar? Can it get any clearer?Many of our issues in Lubavitch are far from black on white,but this is. Rabbi Osdova should have been there last night.I am not a great scholar but the Shtar seems air tight. No ?
If this psak stands, why wasn't it signed by all the 5 dayonim?
something stinks here v'oid chazon l'moied
it will be interesting to know where the other 4 dayanim are hiding
Rabbi Braun is a nice person. My personal impression is that he is a raving raving Meshichist and that he is of the view that the ONLY person who can be Moshiach is the last Rebbe z"l. Ask him that question with a simple yes/no answer and you will see what I mean. That reflects Chabad today, though; the vast majority are (still) Meshichisten, it's just a question of how open they are about it (or covert).
Does anyone in Melbourne, for example, think that because Rabbi A. Blesofksy took down his huge Moshiach awning that he has changed his opinion and he now is "unsure" if the last Rebbe will be Moshiach?
חלומות
The smiling idiot in the first photo is Abba Horowitz, ad administrator of Bobov. Certainly no one of note...probably just there hoping to see some action.
Isn't there enought trash and trouble in Boro Park that these morons come to Crown Heights to cause trouble by yenem ?
which bobobov
Does anyone in Melbourne, for example, think that because Rabbi A. Blesofksy took down his huge Moshiach awning that he has changed his opinion and he now is "unsure" if the last Rebbe will be Moshiach?
why takke did he take it down?
The sign is still there.....
You just need to see it.
If we dance on the street corners, it will re-appear....
Sound like something else we know ??
Rosenberg made a hit and run, he came as a outsider with no feelings that this community is splintered, and you are left with a half a Kehila not represented. Which is a churban olem, he gives no damm he leaves to his Monsey Kugel farm with his paycheck. How can a rav with a ounce of yiras shomaim leave a case so unsolved as this? there was a din torah but with no solution.
re rabbi blesofsky, his sign was removed due to council forcing him to take down and instead sign is hanging outside house of his son
It makes no sense. Why did he sign such a tight shtar? He practically left himself no way out. He is stuck. He will have to quit or there will be machlokes R"l about this until Moshiach comes.
Oy lonu, meh hoya lonu
@Anon 10:57: Because some Gevirim threatened to stop funding Chabad if he didn´t take it away.
BTW why is the psak about rabbi(?) Braun signed only by rabbi Rosenberg? Has anybody asked the 4 other rabbis why their names are missing?
R' Hirshl, you owe it to your regular readers who are not au fait with the ins and outs of Lubavitch to explain the background to this event. Who was elected, to what, who were the candidates, what is the event photographed and why all the non-Lubi faces.
Tu unz ale a toyve in a few brief words. A sheinem dank!
I think to fair to the issue. You need to post the psak din signed by Rabbi Rosenberg. You can also post the letters from R Osdobo after. At least people will know what is going on. I was there, it was an amazing evening. There were many many normal working people there. I am a middle of the road type of guy. FYI, R Braun did not say yechi.
Toldoseihem she'll t*dikim maasim tovim
Hazorim bedima bedima berina yiktzoru
The rebbe runs the world as rabbi cunin sais
Anon 9:43
Abba Horowitz is R' Braun Sr's son in law.
הירשעלע
ביסט געפאלן אויפן קאפ?
אבער אויב איך שרייב שוין, הרב מארלאו ע"ה איז געווען א פרומער אפגעהיטער איד. איך געדיינק איין יאר צו תקיעות ביים רבי'ן האט ער גלייך נאך דעם רבי'נס תקיעות אליין געבלאזן מצד כמה שאלות. דער נס איז געווען אז מען האט עם ניט צעריסן אויף שטיקער וד"ל. אויב ער האט געהאלטן פון יחי האט עס גארניט געהאט מיט פאליטיק.
לגבי הרב אזדאבא כמדומני אז ער האט א שטארקע טענה, עפ"י דין דארף א דיין וויסן מיט וועמען ער זיצט צו דיני תורה, ער טענה'ט אז איך ווייס ניט צי ער האט סמיכה וכו' איז לו יהי אז פארן קהל איז ער א רב אבער די שאלה בלייבט צי מ'קען עם מחייב זיין זיצן מיט עם.
די ריכטיגע שאלה איז וואו זיינען די פיר אנדערע רבנים פון דעם פסק וד"ל.
מענדל
Hirshel
Perhaps explain to us how u ended up being a non public mishichist and how long after gimel tamuz u figured it out
Who is the moshe of our Dor now
מענדל
ניין
כ'בין נישט געפאלן אויפ'ן קאפ
הרב שוויי איז אויך געווען א פרומער אפגעהיטענע איד, און איז נאך אלץ בחיי יום יום שלו, אבער ווען עס קומט צו ענינים ציבוריים איז שווער צו פארשטיין וואס ער טוט און וואס ער טראכט
די מעשה מיט הרב מארלאוו ז"ל וואס איר האט געברענגט איז נאר מוסיף צו מיין טענה, נישט גורע
anon 11:54am
what does Meshichist have to do with it?
If the rebbe was alive, does anyone really think he wouldn't have outlawed the internet along with the gedolei hador?
You mean your really a meshichist?
no, I don't mean that
So what do you mean?
your question is irrelevant here,
my beliefs are not the point now
הירשעלע
דער מעשה מיט דיין קאפ איז אויף בכלל רעדן וועגן דעם ענין.
כ'וויל בפירוש ניט רעדן וועגן הרב שוויי שליט"א. הרב מארלאו איז געווען א פיקח, ער האט קלאר געוואוסט וואס ער טוט. ער האט פשוט געהאלטן אז יחי איז ריכטיק. איך קען עטליכע אידן אין כאן ציוה בקיאים אין נגלה און נסתר וואס האלטן אז יחי איז ריכטיק. ווען מען פרעגט זיי וועגן די משוגעים זאגן זיי וכי מפני השוטים וכו'
עכ"פ עס איז ניט אזוי פשוט ווי דו מאכסט עס.
ולהעיר איך בין ניט פון די וואס זאגן יחי אבער לענ"ד עס איז ניט אזוי גרינג צו זאגן אז זיי זיינען אומגערעכט. וועגן די משוגעים איז אן אנדערע פרשה מ'דארף זיי בארואיגן און פארשווייגן וד"ל.
מענדל
mendle is the proof in the pudding as to why chabad has the tzura/tzara it does. the meshichistin glaibin un mainin in gantzin and the anti are mostly mechulok on pr not beliefs.
Anonymous said...
Anon 3;52;00
Is his son of North Miami also a Meshichist?"
He definitely doesn't proclaim it & keeps it to himself. He's a very learned, intelligent yungerman who decided after his father's petirah to not pursue the rabbonus in CH as a yerusha bec he saw where it was heading with the machlokes and the agmas nefesh his father had.
In general, there's different levels of meshichistin.
1. People who believe the Rebbe is moshiach, but proclaiming it is irrelevant, and it's not important in the big scheme. The main thing is to prepare the world for Moshiach thru Torah, mitzvahs, outreach. Most chassidim fall in this group.
2. Our avoida is to get the whole world to know that the Rebbe is moshiach, but it has to be b'oifan hamiskabel, and only if the receiver is a keili to it.
3. If u don't wear a yechi yarmulka and pin you're not a chossid and we have to proclaim it wherever and whenever we can
4. There's nobody at the ohel except the FR, the Rebbe is alive and well and we are stopping his revelation by not saying yechi 1,000 times a day.
RM was mostly in group 2. I think braun is also in #2. The meshugoyim in 770 are in #3 or #4 with the hardcore in #4 making the most noise.
This is a b'kitzur breakdown, and there's plenty of arichus to write about this, but I gotta go make some $$ today.
One last nekudah: Like everything else, nobody is pure. We have political agendas all over the place, and people say things that they don't believe for a NY minute to advance themselves. For example, RK in cincinatti believes in yechi like I believe in the tooth fairy. But he's at every asifa since he had a fallout with the HQ people & the yechi crowd gives him a platform to sit on.
http://www.collive.com/files/0.74246944694_4581915.pdf
bekitzer, ad mosai, as a group, your screwed.
"bekitzer, ad mosai, as a group, your screwed"
b'kitzur, as a group chareidi judaism is screwed unless we change our lifestyle dramatically and have fearless leaders who will tell people the truth about going to work, earning an honest parnossah, and living within your means.
tzig claims he has a job, im sure he goes to work when hes not drunk...
ad mosai,
you conveniently forget chasidim like myself who hold that the whole thing with considering/calling/believing/hoping the rebbe was/is/will be moshiach kipshuto is a shtus.
Sam, ur a miut sh'aino matzui so u don't count
Sam,
if u really really think that considering/hoping/believing is shtus, get off your lazy achurayim and find a new belief system, or anoint a new Rebbe.
"if u really really think that considering/hoping/believing is shtus, get off your lazy achurayim and find a new belief system,"
but aren't guys like you part of the real"new belief system"?
We've run in circles here for a week and once again it comes back to the conclusion that its time for a new rebbe as hard sad and painful as it may be
גריינעם
ס'פעלט דיר א נייער רבי גיי געפין עם. מיר אין ליובאוויטש האבן א רבי'ן הלואי אויף אלע רבי'ס חסידים וואס פאלגן זיי ווי די ליובאוויטשער פאלגן זייער רבי'ן.
הירשעלע
היינט איז פשוט פארשנייט האב איך אביסל צייט שרייבן. זאלסט ניט האבן קיין פאראיבל אויף מיין שארפקייט.
מענדל
ס'פעלט דיר א נייער רבי גיי געפין מיר אין ליובאוויטש האבן א רבי'ן הלואי אויף אלע רבי'ס חסידים וואס פאלגן זיי ווי די ליובאוויטשער פאלגן זייער רבי'ן
mendle, oh how you wish this was true. vaad hakohol gaboyim of shul fisher saga, etc. etc. is all because he was blindly and loyally obeyed and followed, right.
he must have founded oholei tayre too?...
on my enemies i dont wish chasidim like your rebbe had to put up with in his lifetime, forget about how his name is besmirched in the streets now with all the machlokes going on in his name...
i have a live breathing rebbe, zol er zain gezunt un shtark un derleibn moshiach'n
Why are the meshichestin and non-meshichisten fighting? The differences are just nuances. Every Lubavitcher believes that the Rebbe is Moshiach (except perhaps for Rabbi Heller, if there is someone else, I would like to know).
Is the question of whether to keep it secret or proclaim it to the world worth fighting over?
The smiling idiot in the first photo is Abba Horowitz, ad administrator of Bobov. Certainly no one of note...probably just there hoping to see some action
abba is yyb's borther in law. abba is married to yyb's sister
tzig used to think the rebbe wasnt mashiach but now he is reconsidering
Your mashpia wnats to disown you, he's just not sure how to go about it
i love being the hundredth comment
http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=31720
when i was growing up going to a rally was thought of as being fun. can you explain this one to the uninitiated, please. http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=31720
An Ailemesher,
there are many many others (eg. r' berel levin) ואכמ"ל
Grainom-who is your Rebbe or is it a secret like the Russian Chusid's Rebbe? Your words will be more convincing if you are honest and open.
klain kepeldik, as you very well understand their are very many reasons for blogging with a non de plume
klainer
who is yours?
Ad Mosai,
Consider/Hope/Believe all day and all night. It won't help.
Learn a maamar chasidus and the ohr of moshiach will be klur - you won't have time or interest in shtusim vehavolim.
What exactly is the purpose of a "Beis Din?" I understand a Mora Dasra. And that larger kehillos have a need for more than one. But what peulos need the haskama of two out of three?
and certainly wouldnt blog
The only sane????? conclusion one can come to after this entire "intelligent" discussion that is mevaze the name of the Rebbe with inane ploidering, specifically those who feel that they have the "wisdom" and are "empowered" to decide who is or who is not Moshiach,is that your'e all nuts.
Ad Mosai,
Consider/Hope/Believe all day and all night. It won't help.
Learn a maamar chasidus and the ohr of moshiach will be klur - you won't have time or interest in shtusim vehavolim."
Sam, halvai I had the zitsfleish to learn a maamor like i have for shtusim like the internet. We probably believe the same thing, but bottom line, if u don't believe that the Rebbe is coming back as moshiach in some form, then it's over. We can recast chabad as ncsy with beards, but as a chassidus it is over. Look in Tanya perek 42 "ainai haeida", perek 2 "tzaddikim vchachomim...", perek 1 "omad vshoslon...".
This is before we look at L"S V26 shmois, and many other places.
My point is that we have to believe that the Rebbe is coming to lead us from golus. Is he Moshiach now? No, bec Hashem will reveal to moshiach his mission when it is time for it, not before, as the Rebbe told LG once. Is he chezkas? Not sure, depending if chezkas can be said after histalkus. Our main avoida today is haftozas ha'maayonos, in our own hearts and families and to the world at large. Flags and statements are a distraction and stop people from learning chassidus, that's why I hate them.
I've got more to write on this, but I need some sleep tonight.
במטותא מנך, ר' הערשל צי א צווייטן, זייט מסביר וואס דא גייט פאר. וועם וועלט מען און צו וואס, און מה ענין שמטה אצל הר סיני און מה לאנשי הגר בבית חב"ד?
אז עס געדויער צו לאנג גיבט כאטש א לינק ווו מען קען לייענען במה דברים אמורים.
א פרייליכן ראש השנה לאלנות!
at what point in time was who appointed/elected as the first rov of ch. im sure that while it was an active jewish community there was no rov.
how many years was he rov, who succeeded him, how and why... ad hayom hazh
ad mosai, if you think someone can be chexkas moshioach after their histalkus, then why not the rambam. do you know that in teiman they said in KADDISH bchayay drabeinu moshe ubchayay dchol beis yisroel!!
Grainem-I didn't say I had a Rebbe. You said you had a "living,breathing Rebbe." So what's the big deal about knowing who he is? How does that compromise your identity?
what exactly is hiskashrus? i always thought a chasidus was more of a social experience, following the same rebbe and having minhogim and a dress code .
To Mendel, the posters who posts in Yiddish,
I"m shocked that someone who appears to be a born and bred Lubavitcher, or at least from a Heimishe backround, and seems to be a decent fellow, is also not sure if "Yechi iz richtig"??
What is going on here??
Even "normal" Lubavitcher?
Ad mosai?
Going on 17 years...
Moshiach min hameisim.....
How much longer will evennormal ones go along...?
AD Mosai
"Not sure, depending if chezkas can be said after histalkus"
To say cheskas moshiach on a halachic dead person(not Midrashic or Rashi al hatorah regarding yakov ovini)is the same Kefira as the Rebbe said regarding the Aschalta Degeula movement.It is Megaleh Ponim Betorah Sheloi Kehalocha.
Ad Mosai
I don;t see no problem with all your chasidic sources, the AR writes in Igeres Hakodesh in Tanya and the Miteler Rebbe writes in Mamorie Hishtatchus, that Hiskashrus to tzadikim are bigger after their soul departed from the Guf, that is the strongest place where Hiskashrus gets discussed in Chabad.
Anon
"ן מה לאנשי הגר בבית חב"ד?"
Chabad is not a Landmanshaft for Paizanes, it is a torah Sheliema for every Jew.
Anon
"Who is the moshe of our Dor now"
lets pick and choose
1) RBZ Halberstam
2)Nikolsburger Rebbe of Monsey
3)Skverer Rebbe of Hilcrest
4)Skverer Rebbe of Bp
5) Skverer Rebbe Of Flatbush
6) Nikolsburger Rebbe of WoodBurne
"Anon
"Who is the moshe of our Dor now"
lets pick and choose
1) RBZ Halberstam
2)Nikolsburger Rebbe of Monsey
3)Skverer Rebbe of Hilcrest
4)Skverer Rebbe of Bp
5) Skverer Rebbe Of Flatbush
6) Nikolsburger Rebbe of WoodBurne"
Ever heard of the possuk in Kohelles
כי לכלב חי הוא טוב מן האריה המת
?
Thought not!
Ad Mosai, (and all meshichisten),
If you don't have the zitsfleish to learn, then why do you think that you have the ability of teitsching up inyanim amukim referenced in tanya ubeprat hamevuarim besichosov hoachronim of the Rebbe.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that you don't understand.
Why did Rabbi Marlow leave the BD?
Anonymous said...
Anon
"Who is the moshe of our Dor now"
lets pick and choose
1) RBZ Halberstam
2)Nikolsburger Rebbe of Monsey
3)Skverer Rebbe of Hilcrest
4)Skverer Rebbe of Bp
5) Skverer Rebbe Of Flatbush
6) Nikolsburger Rebbe of WoodBurne
if these are the only candidates you can think of, boy do i pity you, even though i usually dont suffer fools well.
basaed on our old criteria of being a marbitz torah and chasidus ahavas yisroel etc
rthe rosh, r ezra sochet
r bpgomilsky
r cunin
r groner
r hershel shechter
r avi weiss
r shlomo amar
r bakshi doron
r marvin hier
http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2006/03/introspection.html
Hirshel,
What have you got against the Hachtorah?
The fact that Yechi wassaid in front of "Olamisheh"?
You don't hold of" Al yevoish mipnei hamali'gim"?
"Umordechai loh yichra"?
The world knows that we think the Rebbe is Moshiach and 99% of Chabadagrees about this
Hey,
Your Yiddish writing friend,Mendel, is an untouchable?
How come you did not post my comment to him???
David
Rav Marlow passed away on 20 Sivan 5760...
tzig doesnt like when chabad shows the the public the face he doesnt like to see or admit exists
Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציג said...
David
Rav Marlow passed away on 20 Sivan 5760.
but is that when he left the beis din? why cant he continue to be a chaver badatz?
Sam said...
Ad Mosai, (and all meshichisten),
There is nothing wrong with admitting that you don't understand."
U didn't understand my post. I don't understand and I'm not a maiven in chezkas vs. vadai, but I'm clear on what our mission is today. Therefore this entire argument is a distraction from our avoida of hafotzas ha'maayonos. The tanya and sichos make the question and are not the answer. In V26 shmois the Rebbe says that the nossi has to be someone u can see with gashmius'dike eyes. No one has ever given a straight answer where this is now. So we have 2 options.
1. the nutcases answer, "open your eyes (& smoke some dope) and you'll see it"
2. we don't know the answer but we know what our avoida is, and just like we can't answer the holocaust, Jewish suffering, kids dying R"L, we can't answer this and Moshiach will answer it.
I prefer #2, and don't call me a meshichist, the meshichisten in our town can't stand me and you're offending them.
Tolner rebbe of boston is the new nossi doreinu
Anonymous said...
Ad Mosai
I don;t see no problem with all your chasidic sources,...that Hiskashrus to tzadikim are bigger after their soul departed from the Guf, that is the strongest place where Hiskashrus gets discussed in Chabad."
the issue is not hiskashrus, it's nossi hador (LS V26 shmois) Tanya 42 (ainai ha'ieda).
there's no answer for this unless you're a yechi whackjob high on dope who says "efen der oigen"
Can you please post a link to where the rebbe said you have to be able to see the nossi hador w your eyes?
Didn't the rebbe call rayatz nossi hador?
Anonymous said...
Can you please post a link to where the rebbe said you have to be able to see the nossi hador w your eyes?"
LS V26 shmois, this is just one place the Rebbe says this.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16021&st=%D7%9C%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%98%D7%99+%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%AA+%D7%9B%D7%95&pgnum=18
What kind of makke bpatish is wolpe? Who do you know that does more peulos to be memale the ritzonois of the rebbe!?
I was kidding.
But he once was a sheine talmid chochom. Likutei Torah/Torah Or ken er fun Oysveynig. daled Chelkei Shulchan Oruch iz er "klor
Ven is er gevoren ois?
Anon
"but is that when he left the beis din? why cant he continue to be a chaver badatz?"
ask that question from the Meshichisten, not from Hirshel
Ad masay
How are u metaretz the stira bdivrey harebbe? If u have to be able to see the nossi the rayatz was disqualified after yud svat...?
Aderaba, plz explain
Boris
"tzig doesnt like when chabad shows the the public the face he doesnt like to see or admit exists"
you wouldn't like neither when a family member of yours is embarrassing himself on stage.
Ad ai
I n the early years toras Mebnachenm the Rebbe asked how can the FR still be nosi hador? since it is after the histalkus. and what about his promise of Lealter Legeula for our genaration, He ansered it with a Yerushalmi on Shimshon Hagibur, that as long the dor still respected his power he was still the nosi, I am not quoting it verbatim but that was the Idea. But he did not see yechi from the rooftops,but he said he will walk out from the Farbrengen when Volpe was saying it.
Bigger talmidie chachomim then Volpo are rabble rouser and Krum, He is a lunatic and noting will stop him, not even the Rebbe. But let me tell he is in for himself, I was stunned at letters that he send for people,Like a whore he has a price for everything. If Krinsky would come up with funds he would make a Uturn
Anon 419
Have u no shame to call r volpe a w***e!? Azoi redt a chosid!?
Afra lepumach
You wouldn't like neither when a family member of yours is embarrassing himself on stage.
Usually shtifkinder / gevorene have to conform and don't have a deya
Since CH elected a Ungarische Yid as a rav, why not elect a Ungarische rav who actually is a posek and a lamdan (with a formal Semicha). Such people exist in New York.
Please clarrify why Chabad always claimed that Breslov was not a legitimate derech in avoidas hashem because they had no Rebbe.
Growing up in Chabad they were mocked as the 'Toiter Chassidim' with no Rebbe to guide them in the nisyoinois of the present day, because he was no longer in this world.
Contrast this with bochrim and yungerleit who never saw the Rebbe or heard a sicha live or were in Crown Heights in the good old days...
Looks like Chabad is taking lessons from Breslov now, including dancing on street corners.
Unchain Me
Rabbi Braun is a posek a Lamdan, just did not take semicha
"Please clarrify why Chabad always claimed that Breslov was not a legitimate derech in avoidas hashem because they had no Rebbe. "
Chabad had no problem with Breslov on not having a rebbe, it is a total different tought system
Anon 4:28
Shloma hamelech in Mishle and kohleth is using this expression on people with certain behaviours
Unchain me said...
Since CH elected a Ungarische Yid as a rav, why not elect a Ungarische rav who actually is a posek and a lamdan (with a formal Semicha). Such people exist in New York.
even in kan tzivo maybe one or two
hey groinam mottel yt shemi boris etc...,
lets see if we can get this thread to 200 comments
הריני מצטרף להנ"ל
הק' שמואל גרונם
http://mordechai7215.blogspot.com/2011/01/zalman-schachter-shalomi-on-how-to.html
mottel, if you like shalomi more than lakewood, dont come to our detox
http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2011/01/kosher-yoga.html
mitzva lefarsem
Re:Grainom 7:19
Along with the great BT Revolution that overtook Lubavitch in the last 40 years came an influx of eirev rav culture and ideas that are completely foreign to Lubavitch and Judaism in general.These ideas include many concepts from eastern religions and from American hippie culture. Lubavitch doesn't need a third dayan; it needs a second Ezra Hasofer to figure out what to do with the erev rav and their ideas which have infiltrated Lubavitch in a big way. Very sad.
Grainom,
Thnx for the link about yoga. It really is a mitzva lefarsem this article. I knew Gutman Locks when he lived in CA, drove a hippie VW van, and he still is a bissel meshuga (like all us californians). But he's an eesh emes without pniyus and chitzoinius and today he spends his time doing mivtzoim in the old city.
His book on gematria has a foreword from R' Emmanuel Schochet (a Ref"sh b'korov).
klainer, not ezra hasofer. a rebbe, a new rebbe, you have no other hope.
At the risk of being bashed, can someone tell me why there must be ONE Moshe in each generation? Why must there be ONE Nosi? Where does it say this in Halacha? If it doesn't say it in Halacha, then who can second guess why the Eybishter might choose to make us a Dor Yasom or at least one where a group of people have yarshened aspects of Moshe.
in sifrei chasidus they are masbir that EVERY manhig has an element of moshe to be able to lead. in lubavitch they created this isea of nossi hador/moshe of the dor
the current mess in ch is the fault of horav heller.
if he would agree to sit on beis din, then we would have a beis din of him sitting alongside horav osdoba and horav shwei... osdoba accepts heller as does schwei. in fact the entire community would accept rabbi heller.
he needed to have stood up and taken this community by the nose and shown leadership.
Piputim
so you choose not to believe in Agudas chazal?
Klainer
"it needs a second Ezra Hasofer to figure out what to do with the erev rav "
what exactly did Ezra do?
Whe exactly made r hellers life so miserable that forced him to quit the beisdin?
in fact the entire community would accept rabbi heller.
Chochom, the only reason the entire community would accept rabbi heler is BECAUSE he wasn't involved in the bes din these last 15 plus years, if he were involved he would get the same respect that rabbi marlow had, and that rabbis shvei and osdoba have nowhe would have done the same stupid mistakes (for those of you who were around in 5754 - 5756 know what I'm talking about)
What u call erev rav the rebbe called mikuravim and worked hard to make them comfortable
Maybe its time to bring heLler back?
By the way I see r marlow and all the other rabbonim denigrated here, it looks like CH has a tradition of voting in people to leadership positions who are unworthy of them... And then complaining that the leaders don't live up to expectations
One thing is for certain, in chabad of the last 50 years there is a masores that the matara is machshir the emtzoyim so braun is whithin his rights
Has braun davened shachris upstairs or downstairs since he came?
Has osboda met braun yet?
can anyone fill us in on why r heller quit the beis din
Anony.9:0 5Do you believe that the rebbe would have wanted BTs who learn Likutei Torah and then practice various rituals from eastern religions including yo... and meditation to be made comfortable? They brought their poison with them from Berkeley and Big Sur together with the drugs and the free lifestyle-and don't think it didn't take its toll on the erliche bochurim in Lubavitch because it sure did. VD"L
klainer, he wanted YOU to educate them
Grainom 10:51
Well meaning families in CH have been opening their hearts and doors to these chevreleit for the past several decades and more. By doing so they have endangered their own families' kedusheh and moral foundation.In many cases the seeds that were planted surreptitiously at these kiruv sessions only became apparent years later when erliche kids began to frei out. Some BTs did give up their old baggage but it remains to be seen how steep the price was in Operation BT. Do you think kiruv is a one way street?
To ad mosai:
Is he moshiach now?
The Rebbe said in a sicha that Moshiach is already in this world and started doing the peulos of moshiach...
החוחים שרייבט מען נישט מיט א 'כ'
FOR ALL THOSE WHO CANT DEAL WITH THE THOUGHT OF ACCEPTING A NEW REBBE, HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW OLD THE REBBE WAS WHEN THE RAYATZ DIED? IT WAS THE CHASIDIM WHO REALIZED THAT THE SHOW MUST GO ON, THAT MADE SURE THERE WOULD BE A SUCCESSION AND A CONTINUATION. wake up and smell the coffee, do the same.
satmer has a working model for success, split.
hey, are you a chosid or not? dont you do as the rebbe said and end of story? didnt the rebbe take responsibility for the children of those he sent into kiruv?
if you dont want them in your house, thats your choice, i pick and choose whom to allow in my home as well, but it sounds like your being boyet in the rebbes whole kiruv enterprise?
Klainer
"They brought their poison with them from Berkeley and Big Sur together with the drugs and the free lifestyle"
to talk like this when you have accurate the same garbage in Willi, Kj that the last Baal teshuva was Mayer Weberman from the Malochim, New Square that the last Baal teshuva was Hill, their doors were locked frtom anything foreign. And the same garbage is happening there, how can you have the chutzpa to talk like this on people that sacrificed their life for Yahadus, it shows your lack of Ahavas Hashem, I am not saying Ahavas Yisroel since it is a Triefen Vort in your fargrebter velt, but hating a Oived Hashem B'mesiras Nefesh shows that you hate what Hashem loves.What was the Biggest Mesiras Nefesh for Yahadus in your life? Paying 3 dollars for pomegranate for Tu Bishvat?
770 looks like it needs a paint job
i think i sent in somne very relevant comments that didnt get posted, check your spam inbox
http://chabad.info/index.php?url=article_en&id=21862
have the three rabonim sat together yet?
Anonymous asked me about Agudas Yisroel? As the Rav effectively said, Hashem has 'paskened' against that philosophy.
Pitputim is the new name for Issac Balbin?
Various admorim and Torah giants were known for asking morei horaah, halachic adjudicators, to pasken that Moshiach should come. These rabbonim would say that a morah horaah, a posek, is given certain powers to issue a halachic ruling that can impact the metzius, the reality, of the world.It was with this in mind that Rav Menashe Klein, noted posek and author of the Mishneh Halachos, who currently resides in Eretz Yisroel, posed a request to the posek hador at his home in Meah Shearim.Rav Klein, during a recent visit to Maran Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, asked the centenarian gadol to pasken that Moshiach should come. Rav Elyashiv politely refused, stating, “We cannot pasken [that the geulah should come], but rather, we should believe in and anticipate [the coming of the geulah].”
Well some people definitely spent alot of time around the Rebbe
r menashe klein couldnt pasken such an easy shaila by himself?
interesting that you bring gil (gutman) locks who is actually not a lubavitcher, although in a rare approbation the rebbe told him "that this book will surely bring jews closer to yiddishkeit". he likes the rebbe and chabbad but is not chabad is a staunch anti-mishchist. i guess the rebbe approved of gil as opposed to his chassidim. a constant thread in dor hashvi'i.
we had a rebbe whom, with some major issues at least, only the bt's perhaps got?
one more point: ir megt zich alle shemen. this gil locks, according to some estimates, put on tefilin with THOUSANDS over the years at the kosel. while you were all fressing on 13th avenue. farmers.
gil told me that the rebbe sent lchaim with bochurim on their way to melbourne for the person who runs the tefilin stand at the kosel. gil received the mashke after shkieh on shabbos and walked home with it through the arab quarter and was attacked by arabs, who turned to beat gil after knocking down his friend. gil flung the mashke at the oncoming arab's face and they all ran away. gil reported back to the rebbe at dollars the mashke saved him....
gil locks part 1
this brings mighty ancient memories to the fore,
from recent past
to jewish times of yore.
he wakes like a lion
storms the empty streets
the gold stone singing
its is 4am
it is gil locks' yerushalayim
he learns mishnayos for two hours. the mikva. briskly a soldier does not tarry.
he has not failed netz in 30 years.
ever since he walked to the kosel and asked an old men "tell me", and did not stop listening, straight to meah shiorim for the uniform, the soul, the light of burnished past
polished with the jews en messe
whom he feeds
the friday night hippie throngs
with dairy vegan soup
screaming that god is one
singing
that all else is none
Anon
"posed a request to the posek hador at his home in Meah Shearim."
what makes him the Posek Hador? a tzadik hador you can say on whomever you like, but a posek hador is a fact,I haven"t seen no good teshuva sefer from him yet.
I haven"t seen no good teshuva sefer from him yet.
and ingelsh you lirned in ot?
Typical scheduleThe following is a typical daily schedule for Chabad Yeshiva students:
7:30 a.m. - Chasidus - Hasidic philosophy (in some locales such as Israel and Australia first classes start at 7:00 a.m.)
9:00 a.m. - preparation for prayers, including Mikveh immersion (for those who didn't do so before 7:30 a.m.)
9:15 a.m. - Shacharis - Morning prayers
10:15 a.m. - Breakfast
11:00 a.m. - Iyun - Morning in depth Talmud study
1:00 p.m. - shiur (lecture) - more advanced students receive lectures less often
2:00 p.m. - Mincha - afternoon prayers
2:15 p.m. - Lunch and break period
3:30 p.m. - Afternoon Talmud, including review of morning study and less in-depth Talmudic study known as girsa
6:00 p.m. - Halacha study
7:00 p.m. - Dinner and break period
8:00 p.m. - Night Seder: Hasidic philosophy - Chasidus
9:30 p.m. - Ma'ariv - Evening prayers
9:50 p.m. - Seder Inyanei Ge'ulah U'Moshiach - unofficial study of Torah topics related to the Messianic redemption (as per Rabbi M. M. Schneerson's instructions)
10:00 p.m. - Seder Sichos - unofficial study of Rabbi M. M. Schneerson's public addresses
Anony 2:09
Is ahavas Hashem and ahavas Yisroel bringing in people who are steeped in H...ism, B...ism,the teachings of J,the lifestyle of hedonism and drugs and exposing the erliche , impressionable youth to this new view of the world.You're trying to tell me there isn't a terrible problem of freing out in Lubavitch? This freing out came from thin air?
Not every BT has this background but many did.If this new American-Lubavitch culture is good, then tell me why the Rebbe Rashab fought against even the slightest change in any aspect of Yiddishkeit,even a seemingly trivial matter.
if i would have known when i was a bochur that if i joined habad i'd be able to daven at 915 officially, i may have converted.
klainer, what levush do you wear?
are you insinuating that the rebbe veered from his predescesers path?
klainer. "b'asher hu sham" as chabad looks today in its present form what are you suggesting to be done to improve the matzav?
are the people doing the kiruv telling the bt's that if they want hashem/the rebbe in their hearts they have to trade in j?
Fed up in Peoria said...
This is inside baseball. Please provide the background of this story. The players and their positions. We come here to learn.
Peoria, 933 miles from 770.
anyone has an update?
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