tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post427755191921795313..comments2024-03-06T12:52:47.385-05:00Comments on Circus Tent - הירשל ציג'ס בלאג: 3 Days In Kislev....Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-24445478480845989112008-12-30T15:57:00.000-05:002008-12-30T15:57:00.000-05:00>>I know of a kolel in a eastern European co...>>I know of a kolel in a eastern European country that was created with the full pretense of anti chabad by people that were living the Shach hate dogma,as of today they havent saved not even one soul,<BR/><BR/>Such misse talk! Hate? Dogma? Go learn something, you menuval.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-37502787146481599032008-12-29T17:53:00.000-05:002008-12-29T17:53:00.000-05:00i was at a fri nite dinner at chaba at u of m, and...i was at a fri nite dinner at chaba at u of m, and met 2 brand new, or 1/2 way BT's by the shaliach, who is there only 7 or so years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-34744427651304969782008-12-24T02:04:00.000-05:002008-12-24T02:04:00.000-05:00"Either way, I'm sure both sides can learn from ea..."Either way, I'm sure both sides can learn from each other."<BR/><BR/>Tzig,<BR/>I can't believe you actually wrote the above quote!!!<BR/>You have actually admitted that Lubavitch can learn from others, even in what is considerd Lubavitchs forte.<BR/>I commend your honesty!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-57412959410997107262008-12-24T01:04:00.000-05:002008-12-24T01:04:00.000-05:00Aish kiruv is a natural ramification of ChabadAll ...Aish kiruv is a natural ramification of Chabad<BR/>All the BTs that coming from Aish are a zechus from the Lub Rebbe<BR/><BR/>Regarding Lubs tryng to hap Satmars<BR/>Yes, these are "old news" <BR/>the rule "there are 2 kinds of Jews: Lubs and not yet Lubs" apllies with no restrictions<BR/><BR/>I saw many Lubs becoming Breslovers after 3 Tamuz, but , only BtsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-7842820127094283992008-12-24T00:53:00.000-05:002008-12-24T00:53:00.000-05:00This bean counting of Aish vs Chabad is false, le...This bean counting of Aish vs Chabad is false, lets say we have 2000 chabad houses, each Chabad house after a few years in business has worked and succeded on at least 10 families,Most of them have like 40 or 50 so you are up to minimum 20000 famlies that are closer to torah umitzvhos, not all of them are in the Kapote Club( as Shneur loves to phrase it)but the numbers are as big as Ger with Satmar together, as an outsider that visited many countries and many states I saw it with my own eyes. I know of a kolel in a eastern European country that was created with the full pretense of anti chabad by people that were living the Shach hate dogma,as of today they havent saved not even one soul,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-30417688632463776692008-12-23T22:45:00.000-05:002008-12-23T22:45:00.000-05:00Also, as I've had it explained to me, chabad's goa...Also, as I've had it explained to me, chabad's goal isn't BT's per se like aish's is. It is to bring some kind of mitzva no matter what it is to as many Jews as possible. Correct me if I'm wrong. In that way it really succeeds. I have found one group that aish has the perfect toolbox for. THere are people of a certain mindset found on college campuses primarily at mediocre-level private schools. There are people who want to be rationalists, and will turn up their noses at anything -- especially religion -- that does not take pains to prove to them that it is rational. However they don't have the discernment to know what this abstraction of 'rationality' is let alone recognize it when they find it. These are the many secular Jews who give chabad a pass right away because it openly describes itself as mystical, whereas they would go straight to aish because of aish's approach and not be turned off when they find out emuna is emuna regardless of the shape of the rabbi's hat and the length of his coat.Yitzchakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540358059656127222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-45329775402401898822008-12-23T21:15:00.000-05:002008-12-23T21:15:00.000-05:00Tzig,I am sure that the shliach at U on M is not t...Tzig,<BR/><BR/>I am sure that the shliach at U on M is not the gold standard of Lubavitcher kiruv.<BR/>But the story regarding him was only a minor point.<BR/><BR/>And I too am sure that both sides can learn from one another. But like I said, les man dipalig (for the meaning of that see previous posts) that Aish is overall a better mehalech.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-81259117645657274022008-12-23T21:05:00.000-05:002008-12-23T21:05:00.000-05:00ChagasI was referring to that clown Bert's claim a...Chagas<BR/>I was referring to that clown Bert's claim about shluchim drinking.<BR/><BR/>I am unaware if the shliach at the U of Miami has only made 2 BTs. I find that hard to believe. I also don't think that he's the gold standard in Chabad kiruv either. We can use much more successful Chabad shluchim against Aish guys and find the opposite to be true.<BR/><BR/>Either way, I'm sure both sides can learn from each other.Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-38090760338420459342008-12-23T20:59:00.000-05:002008-12-23T20:59:00.000-05:00Tzig,You have played the "Jews drink blood" card t...Tzig,<BR/><BR/>You have played the "Jews drink blood" card too many times.<BR/><BR/>I am not trying to start a blood libel against Lubavitch.<BR/>I have stated again and again that I have nothing against Lubavitch.<BR/>I am in no way looking to harm Lubavitch with the claims that I am making.<BR/><BR/>I simply stated a number of truths that would seem to add up to the fact that Aish's mehalech in kiruv is far better and more efficient Lubavitch's mehalech in kiruv.<BR/><BR/>When I originally suggested that Aish's kiruv program is better you disagreed with me. So I backed up my claims. <BR/><BR/>Now when I say that your silence is proof of the fact that you have no answer, you compare my claims to that of a blood libel?!<BR/><BR/>Please Tzig, just answer the questions you were asked, or bring some sort of backup to your refutation of my claims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-49878422802082482082008-12-23T20:22:00.000-05:002008-12-23T20:22:00.000-05:00"next these clowns are gonna ask me to refute the ..."next these clowns are gonna ask me to refute the "well-known fact" that all Jews have large gold reserves and drink Christian blood on passover."<BR/>I know Tzig, and thats why I never try and refute anyone that comes up with "well known facts" to discredit the rebbe and Chabad. Like the "fact" that the Rebbe is "NOT Boreinu". I mean where do they get their "facts" from?? How krum can they be?? Then too, the fact that I have no answer will somehow be my admitting to that "well-known fact."<BR/><BR/>They crack me up too.<BR/>Yechi!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-53871472447059912942008-12-23T19:05:00.000-05:002008-12-23T19:05:00.000-05:00next these clowns are gonna ask me to refute the "...next these clowns are gonna ask me to refute the "well-known fact" that all Jews have large gold reserves and drink Christian blood on passover. Then too, the fact that I have no answer will somehow be my admitting to that "well-known fact."<BR/><BR/>You guys crack me up.Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-16832737429327858112008-12-23T18:46:00.000-05:002008-12-23T18:46:00.000-05:00You can smell a skunk anon? COme on. SOmeone with ...You can smell a skunk anon? COme on. SOmeone with as much experience insulting people as you should be able to do better than that.<BR/><BR/>Kimmel, I'll leave the real Lubavitchers here to explain the difference between their goals and aish's, but you seem to miss it.<BR/><BR/>BTW I think it's very sad that this is the most civil comment thread I've seen on this blog.Yitzchakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540358059656127222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-65053417561028418222008-12-23T18:42:00.000-05:002008-12-23T18:42:00.000-05:00Bert,"And I take pride in that. lets see some 10 "...Bert,<BR/><BR/>"And I take pride in that. lets see some 10 "yeshiva benkle kvetchers" put down half the amount of booz your average Chabad shliach can put down on a normal friday night."<BR/><BR/>Indeed something to be proud of.<BR/>A true accomplishment.<BR/>Halevai one day we will all drink like Lubavitchers.<BR/><BR/>Tzig, if you are trying "to provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing" then why would you post something that makes you look so bad and gives the Chabad bashers more material?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Kimmel,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the info.<BR/>Unfortunately Tzig will most likely not answer these questions.<BR/>He tends to walk away from discussions that he can't handle and questions he can't answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-81703789776004769442008-12-23T18:33:00.000-05:002008-12-23T18:33:00.000-05:00KimmelAish has every Litvisher godal behind them v...Kimmel<BR/>Aish has every Litvisher godal behind them vs ChabadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-17064406072613087142008-12-23T17:35:00.000-05:002008-12-23T17:35:00.000-05:00Chagas said:"Of course the Lubavitchers had many m...Chagas said:"Of course the Lubavitchers had many more parties and consumed a whole lot more booze."<BR/><BR/>And I take pride in that. lets see some 10 "yeshiva benkle kvetchers" put down half the amount of booz your average Chabad shliach can put down on a normal friday night. <BR/>Wimps. <BR/>Yechi!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-57303136916013301762008-12-23T16:22:00.000-05:002008-12-23T16:22:00.000-05:00I'm going to go out on a limb and try to prove Cha...I'm going to go out on a limb and try to prove Chaga's' contention that :<BR/>"Chabad cannot light a candle to Aish in terms of kiruv"<BR/><BR/>Firstly,<BR/>"Poischim bechvoid achsanyo", since this is a Chabad site I''ll have to agree that Lubavitch does more kiruv than Aish! (hope that makes Tzig happy)<BR/>The question is what is the "bang for the buck"?<BR/>Lubavitch claim to have four thousand shluchim, even if we allow a very broad definition of "shliach" including a salaried job as a teacher in a day school it still leaves us with very impressive numbers.<BR/>Aish:<BR/>Twenty, thirty......OK, 100 broadly defined shluchim.A couple of centers worldwide.But see how much this small cadre of professionals has done.<BR/>Chabad:Been around for more than two hundred years, large base to fall back on.<BR/>Aish:40 years in the making?Base?Rabbi Noiach Wineberg?<BR/><BR/>Look how much they have down.<BR/>Btw, their website is one of the most visited and ranks on an equal basis with Chabad.org in views (maybe someone can gives us the current rankings...)<BR/>Quite impressive without that huge Worldwide base that Chabad has!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-63368933216135203602008-12-23T15:58:00.000-05:002008-12-23T15:58:00.000-05:00Tzig:First of all I never meant to insult anybody....Tzig:<BR/><BR/>First of all I never meant to insult anybody. I apologize if I did. I like Lubavitch a lot and was not trying to put them down.<BR/><BR/>The fact that you disagree with me about Chabad vs. Aish kiruv we can do nothing about. We are arguing a point that is impossible to prove. <BR/>But allow me to ask you the following:<BR/>1- I have my thirty years of experience in the field of kiruv. How many do you have?<BR/>2- I have objectively studied both Chabad and Aish kiruv methods. Have you?<BR/><BR/>I was recently in Miami and I went to visit the University of Miami. <BR/>There are 2 on campus kiruv organizations, Lubavitch and another. <BR/>In 20 years of operating on campus Lubavitch has made 2 Ba’alei Tshuva. In all those years Lubavitch had gotten a grand total of 2 people to become Frum and keep Shabbos! <BR/>The other organization has been operational for 5 years. In those 5 years they have gotten more than 20 people to become Frum and go to yeshiva in E”Y!<BR/>Of course the Lubavitchers had many more parties and consumed a whole lot more booze. The head of the Lubavitch kiruv house was almost thrown off campus for making one of his usual Friday night parties, where everybody gets smashed, and then letting a student drive home drunk resulting in a crash!<BR/><BR/>You can teinah that is one isolated incident and that elsewhere Lubavitch work is on par with their competitors. But unfortunately that is not the case. Do some real research and you will see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-41173924559486776462008-12-23T15:28:00.000-05:002008-12-23T15:28:00.000-05:00HymieI never said all. You just make it alot easie...Hymie<BR/><BR/>I never said all. You just make it alot easier for me.Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-74752403758103821462008-12-23T15:27:00.000-05:002008-12-23T15:27:00.000-05:00chagasyour whole comment was one big insult, albei...chagas<BR/><BR/>your whole comment was one big insult, albeit clothed in a nice way. That only makes it more of an insult.<BR/><BR/>I vehemently disagree with the veracity of your statement too.Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-16014327822427743552008-12-23T15:26:00.000-05:002008-12-23T15:26:00.000-05:00For people that leave their beliefs for reasons li...For people that leave their beliefs for reasons like you just stated,ie. they ("they"-as if "all of them" do) call themselves names like Hyman and Henry,<BR/>Chabad is the perfect place for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-78947923400677239362008-12-23T15:24:00.000-05:002008-12-23T15:24:00.000-05:00Tzig:"so you spoke to yourself in the mirror and f...Tzig:<BR/><BR/>"so you spoke to yourself in the mirror and figured it was good enough?!"<BR/><BR/>Ouch.<BR/><BR/>Let me rephrase that.<BR/><BR/>From my experience and the experience of those who I have spoken to and dealt with regarding kiruv and such, which includes hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of people over the past thirty years on four different continents....<BR/><BR/>From all those people there is les man dipalig about what I stated.<BR/><BR/>I did my time in Lubavitch, I grew up near 770, and I am quite familiar with them.<BR/><BR/>There are the good and the not so good in Lubavitch. But one thing seems certain; Chabad cannot light a candle to Aish in terms of kiruv.<BR/><BR/>Agav, the way you responded to me is a perfect example of a most disturbing trend found amongst Lubavitch youth today. A simple question about their Chasidus and/or way of life in a non antagonistic manner and instead of getting a response you get insulted.<BR/>I simply stated an opinion shared by most people that Lubavitch kiruv is not in the same league as Aish kiruv. I also clearly wrote "I am not saying that Lubavitch does bad kiruv work". <BR/>But instead of responding you attack me and hurl insults.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-60799281214209535782008-12-23T14:41:00.000-05:002008-12-23T14:41:00.000-05:00..... then I look at morons like you who think if ........ then I look at morons like you who think if they go by "Hyman" or "Henry" that they'll sound less Jewish and I dance for joy that I left!Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-6127336565538535352008-12-23T14:39:00.000-05:002008-12-23T14:39:00.000-05:00HT said, "In my case how can I be angry if I did t...HT said, "In my case how can I be angry if I did the same thing?!"<BR/><BR/>Really? I never knew that about you. At what age did they chap you? Oy, nebach. They try to get them when they are young, or mixed up. <BR/>It must be hard, Im sure. There must be times that you wanna go back. But pride always gets in the way. <BR/>When you see other frum jews looking at you as a nebach case, do you ever feel like- "gevalt, what have I done"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-82224535503979471622008-12-23T14:21:00.000-05:002008-12-23T14:21:00.000-05:00Modeh asked a very good Question: why do you keep ...Modeh asked a very good Question: why do you keep insisting that I'm Lubavitch?<BR/><BR/>The obvious answer is: Everyone can smell a skunk, even miles away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-67776108908916213502008-12-23T14:15:00.000-05:002008-12-23T14:15:00.000-05:00THAT part of Lubavitch has not been very active re...THAT part of Lubavitch has not been very active recently, which is sort of unfortunate, so I don't think that's the reason for the opposition. And if it is then the attacks have to focus on that. <BR/><BR/>I used the yated as an example of a frum paper defending the actions of frumme yidden. Not as is related to Lubavitch. The same goes for the Agudah; is the fact that they defend frum Jews proof that they too suffer from Stock. Syn.?Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.com