tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post5888263545546637..comments2024-03-06T12:52:47.385-05:00Comments on Circus Tent - הירשל ציג'ס בלאג: The Boys Of Am EchadHirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-53235298782573591752015-05-19T20:28:54.885-04:002015-05-19T20:28:54.885-04:00thank you for affirming your position and for cons...thank you for affirming your position and for considering the notion that critical thought is in fact not a crime.SHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-91385753916628662852012-01-24T18:07:33.103-05:002012-01-24T18:07:33.103-05:00Great site! How can I share it on the social netwo...Great site! How can I share it on the social networks?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-9131419635183274982008-09-09T10:00:00.000-04:002008-09-09T10:00:00.000-04:00Anonymous said: "the boys came from the Mechutan's...Anonymous said: "the boys came from the Mechutan's side."<BR/><BR/>Since you seem to be in the know, tell us more about "the Mechutan" and "the boys" -- what does this Mechutan do and what was Isaac Hersh doing among "boys" (who are not pictured) you claim were there?<BR/><BR/>And it's good to know that RSK is still able to perform his role as "Minister of Foreign Affairs" of Agudath Israel of America and its Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah, Australia is really grwoing in Torah and many Jews have moved there increasing its Jewish population to an all time high of about 150,000 Jews with a few strong Charedi communities and many becoming frum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-23292396786970391632008-09-08T15:57:00.000-04:002008-09-08T15:57:00.000-04:00Actually, though the Kamenetzky's are warm and lov...Actually, though the Kamenetzky's are warm and loving, the boys came from the Mechutan's side.<BR/><BR/>RSK was in Australia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-72482165458923106512008-09-07T06:03:00.000-04:002008-09-07T06:03:00.000-04:00News flash!Those of us "on the outside" who have b...News flash!<BR/><BR/>Those of us "on the outside" who have been wondering from a distance what ever happened to Isaac Hersh after he was rescued from Tranquilty Bay in Jamaica, finally got a small answer. Seems, last week he was at the chasunah of the Kamenetsky Family. <BR/><BR/>So thanks to a public photo, Isaac Hersh shows up in person in the YATED NE'EMAN of 5 Elul 5768/September 5 2008, Center p. 17 <BR/><BR/>Wow! Months have passed since the rescue of Isaac Hersh from Tranquility Bay, and the uproar that surrounded the whole fiasco, and since his return it's been quiet with people scratching their heads. Last heard, an agreemenet was reached and he was in the "custody" of a friend of the family in Brooklyn. <BR/><BR/>But now, in the colorful center page of the latest YATED, in the bottom right page, "At The Kamenetsky-Rosthstein Wedding" is none other than "Isaac Hirsch" (sic) in between Rav Sholom Kamenetsky and Rav Moshe Feurst, who is next to Rav Tzvi Basch.<BR/><BR/>I always look at the photos of the YATED and MODIAH very carefully, in the spirit of "Kremlin watching" because they often reveal more than most of the articles, in the spirit of "a picture is worth a thousand words". <BR/><BR/>I had to do a double take. Was that really THE Isaac hersh that split the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah against RAS? <BR/><BR/>I looked closely. Who else could it be in casual wear, blue leather yamulka and the face that matched all the ones I had seen of Isaac Hersh till now. <BR/><BR/>Yup, it was him alright. But what was he doing at the wedding of Rav Mordechai Kamentesky's daughter's wedding, with the entire Kamenetsky clan? <BR/><BR/>Out of six photos devoted to this wedding in the YATED, three of them have several Kamenstskys in them. There is Rav Binyomin Kamenetsky, brother of Rav Shmuel and father of Rabbi Mordechai. RSK is not pictured. One connection, and it is intrigueing is that Rav Yacov Lipschutz who is also pictured is also a zeidah of the kallah, and he is the father of the YATED's editor, Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz, so that it seems that the Lipschutz family shares both family and perhaps even some communal concerns with the Kamenetsky family and that PERHAPS Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz is doing has share for making "shalom beYisroel" in keeping with RSK's open warfare against, and defiance of RAS on the Isaac Hersh matter. And it therefore seems that RSK does not stand alone and that his entire family, and by the implication of these latest picures in the YATED, RSK's extended family and some of their mechutonim aand family friends support him (RSK) to the hilt against the hardline views of RAS who backed the father of Isaac Hersh in exiling Isaac Hersh to Tranquility Bay in Jamaica in the first place.<BR/><BR/>So this is it then, the Kamenetsky's have been healing Isaac Hersh it seems. Maybe he is going to one of their yeshiva day schools. The one that was founded by Rav Yaakov ztk"l and is headed by his sons Binyomin and grandson Mordechai is the Yeshiva of South Shore, part traditional yeshiva and part modern Jewish day school, a perfect kiruv yeshiva that bochurim like Isaac hersh could use if they could fit into it and make it work.<BR/><BR/>(Interestingly in the same edition of the YATED there is no photo or mention of RAS, but on the other side of the Center page, p. 16, top left, there is photo of Rav Shach's son, the known Religious Zionist educator Dr. Efraim Shach at a family wedding. Have to give the YATED credit for doing some interesting things and for making the "Kremlin watching" worthwhile!)<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, over at the recent edition of the HAMODIAH, in what may a be a case of grand scale divine co-incidence, on the front page of the Wednesday, September 3, 2008 edition, there are two photos, one of Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin and an inset of its Rosh Yeshiva RAS under the heading "Beginning of the Zeman" with the caption: "The bachurim of Yeshivah Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin listen as Hagaon Harav Aharan Schechter, Rosh Yeshivah, delivers a maamer in conjunction with the pesichas hazeman. (Inset) The Rosh Yeshivah speaking."<BR/><BR/>So as the green lady in the Wizard of Oz said: What a world! <BR/><BR/>The YATED, takes pride in finally show-casing Isaac Hersh to the world surrounded by the warmth of the Kamenetsky family, and the HAMODIAH showcases Yeshiva Chaim Berlin and RAS in the same week's editions. There must be some Divine irony in all this. Maybe Moshiach is closer than we think. A Kesiva Vechasima Tovah!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-37500146546830633402008-08-31T06:46:00.000-04:002008-08-31T06:46:00.000-04:00When things get really nasty (and litigous)...:It ...When things get really nasty (and litigous)...:<BR/><BR/>It would not be surprising that when Isaac Hersh turns 23, he will find a lawyer (like Elliot Pasik) who will help him sue the people responsible for plotting and abetting his kidnapping, incarceration, torture and multiple emotional, physical and psychological damages he suffered on Tranquility Bay, as has now happened with a Satmar boy (now 23) who was abused and is now taking Satmar to court and claiming $5 million in damages.<BR/><BR/>See the story as reported by VIN on 08-28-08 http://www.vosizneias.com/19810/2008/08/28/williamsburg-ny-satmar-teacher-sued-by-former-student-for-sexual-abuse/ from a brealing news reoprt in The New York Jewish Week http://thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c36_a13292/News/New_York.html<BR/><BR/>"Williamsburg, NY - Satmar Teacher Sued For Millions By Former Student For Sexual Abuse <BR/><BR/>Williamsburg, NY - A teacher at a prominent Satmar yeshiva in Williamsburg is being sued by a former student for sexual assault and abuse.<BR/><BR/>In court papers filed Wednesday, Joel Engelman is seeking $5 million in damages from Rabbi Avorohom Reichman, the yeshiva, the United Talmudical Academy and the Satmar Bungalow Colony, where Reichman also teaches in the sects summer camp in upstate White Lake.<BR/><BR/>The civil complaint alleges that Engelman, now 23, was 8 years old in 1993 when Rabbi Reichman sexually assaulted him. The suit alleges that Engelman suffered psychological and physical injury, which required medical and psychological treatment, as a result of the abuse.<BR/><BR/>The suit also alleges that the school continues to lack basic rules protecting children from sexual assault.<BR/><BR/>It states that a deal was in place in April whereby the Engelman family agreed not to pursue legal action in return for Reichmans resignation from the school and the camp. But Rabbi Reichman, according to the suit, was videotaped teaching at the camp in July, after the statute of limitations for a criminal prosecution had run out.<BR/><BR/>Read the lawsuit here PDF http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/uta.pdf<BR/><BR/>The defendants fraudulently induced Joel Engelman to enter into this exchange of mutual promises, and oral contract, the suit alleges.<BR/><BR/>It also claims that various Satmar officials investigated Engelmans allegations and found that ³there were multiple, credible complaints of sexual abuse made against Reichman.<BR/><BR/>Calls to United Talmudical Academy and the Satmar Bungalow Colony for comment were not returned.<BR/><BR/>I really didnt want this to get into the courts, Engelman told The Jewish Week. Had they done things differently [and fired Reichman], I probably wouldn’t have sued. This is the last thing I wanted.<BR/><BR/>Engelman¹s sexual abuse allegations are the latest in a string of such charges made by former male yeshiva students in ultra-Orthodox schools in Brooklyn.<BR/><BR/>Rabbi Yehuda Kolko, a first grade teacher at Yeshiva Torah Temima in Flatbush, recently plead guilty to two counts of endangering the welfare of a child after being charged with several counts of sexual abuse. Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes defended the last-minute plea, citing the<BR/>young age of the plaintiff.<BR/><BR/>Several civil suits pending against Rabbi Kolko and the school seek a total some $50 million in damages."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-50350601530184139272008-08-21T14:07:00.000-04:002008-08-21T14:07:00.000-04:00Please correct my typo in my post of Thursday, Aug...Please correct my typo in my post of Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:55:00 AM about Rabbi Shlomo Klein, "the Chaim Berlin Yeshiva Ketana in Flatbush that he has built up over the more than thirty decades" it should read "thirty YEARS" (not "decades" -- noone lives that long!) Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-15356284371693413672008-08-21T05:16:00.000-04:002008-08-21T05:16:00.000-04:00And take a look at the Camp MaNaVu website's home ...And take a look at the Camp MaNaVu website's home page at http://www.campmanavu.com/index.html where two parts of the Lipa at MaNaVu color war break out have been disabled on YouTube even though their links remain. Why is that? It may be that the owner never meant to post these videos, but then that does not make sense since they got onto MaNaVu's official website. <BR/><BR/>So either the the videos are treif and must go and if so there should be no links to them on the MaNaVu home page at all, or someone at MaNaVu is protesting censorship and making a statement that "you may have stopped the videos, but the the events (concert/color war) were an important catharsis and cleansing of lingering resentments about the Lipa concert ban that we stand by"!<BR/><BR/>No doubt, that Rabbi Shlomo Klein will be hearing from the RAS politically-yeshvishly-correct thought cops for allowing, nay participating, in such a slap in the face of his nominal boss's RAS compounding this tragedy of not allowing for clean fun (RAS hates the mere mention of the word "fun" he thinks the Satan is behind it!) while openly and callously courting the demons of rebellion and disaster as was seen when the Isaac Hersh fiasco spilled over and is in fact still bubbling malignant froth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-65222420939213962122008-08-21T04:55:00.000-04:002008-08-21T04:55:00.000-04:00Couldn't resist this important follow-up. I notice...Couldn't resist this important follow-up. I noticed in a new post on VIN: "New York - Stupidity Of The The BIG EVENT Concert Ban Played As Color-War By Teens In Camp. VIDEO" <BR/><BR/>http://www.vosizneias.com/19554/2008/08/20/new-york-stupidity-of-the-the-big-event-concert-ban-played-as-color-war-by-teens-in-camp/ <BR/><BR/>taken from http://www.thejewishstar.com/ with a ten minute VIDEO of the color war outbreak at Camp MaNaVu this summer starring none other than Lipa Shmeltzer, and to rub salt into some people's "wounds" the theme is how a "frumak" overthrows Lipa but in the end gives in an joins Lipa in the fun, singing and dancing. This is all done under the watchful eye of Rabbi Shlomo Klein, who is the founder, owner and director Camp MaNaVu, and who also happens to be the very successful menahel of the Chaim Berlin Yeshiva Ketana in Flatbush that he has built up over the more than thirty decades that he has headed it into probably the finest yeshiva of its type in Flatbush having accepted, guided and motivated tens of thousands of yeshivishe kids. <BR/><BR/>However, Rabbi Klein is neither a Chaim Berliner nor is his Camp MaNaVu in any way connected to Chaim Berlin yeshiva, as the article mistakenly seems to indicate. On the contrary, while Rabbi Klein has the utmost derech eretz for RAS, he, like RAS, was chosen, appointed and received his mandate to run the elemenatry school of Chaim Berlin yeshiva after a number of devout RYH disciples failed to get it rolling.<BR/><BR/>But there is more to this story, and the key is in the ten minute video that VIN got its hands on, and that is, that one can clearly see the sheer genius of Rabbi Klein as he does his work on stage (he is the older gentleman in shortsleaves with the grey somewhat pointed shortish beard mostly on the right of the screen) and one can see that he has grasped what the yeshivish crowd of boys that have come to his camp NEED, and that is FUN, not just any old fun, but a fun that is rooted in TODAY and is aware of the social climate and of the boys' needs to hang loose and sing and dance in a way that lets them let off steam and freshens them up for when they get back to the stuffy and boring atmosphere many will have to face with clueless rebbeim in the winter.<BR/><BR/>One of the educators quoted at the end of the article hits it right on the head when he says: <BR/><BR/>“You can see how upset the kids are about the whole thing [the Lipa ban]. I think it really exposes an underlying problem that people think these kids are dopes and can be dictated too. They are very naive about how a kid thinks and how he should be educated.”<BR/><BR/>You bet!<BR/><BR/>And one wonders how many off the derech kids could be saved if they were treated the way Rabbi Klein is willing to take the risk and expose the kids at MaNaVu to the sort of TRUE relevant fun that is absolutely necessary in modern day America (and Israel) to save kids from looking for worse stuff in goyish society then getting into a never ending spiral of self-destruction.<BR/><BR/>Too bad that many Baal Teshuva parents, and farfrumte individuals, and stuffy old rosh yeshivas and rebbes fight against the life that Cam MaNaVu is literally pumping into the kids and who knows if Isaac Hersh and many who have suffered fates similar to him could have been saved from the tragedies that befell them if they would have had more fun, of the type they kids at MaNaVu seem to be getting, and going easy on the falshe frumkeiten!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-51454820357597686742008-06-18T11:31:00.000-04:002008-06-18T11:31:00.000-04:00Several points are being missed here. There is a ...Several points are being missed here. There is a klal “Ein cholkim kavod lorav bemakom chillul Hashem”. RAS is guilty of making some bad judgments here. The horrible part is that the research about Jamaica had not been done well, and the original decision may well have been flawed and irresponsible due to lack of data. However, there were numerous efforts to provide this information to him, and he rejected them. Throughout the efforts to rescue IH, when other gedolim were already involved and pleading the case, he maintained staunch resistance. This went to the point of another gadol of the Mo’etzes calling RAS (directly) a “rotzayach”. The original mistake might be dismissed as an error, but the akshonus of keeping the status despite the evidence and pleas from numerous others (including Rabbonim, askonim, and others) is not defensible. This is the bitter taste regarding RAS that lingers on.<BR/><BR/>As far as daas Torah is concerned, not everything that a gadol says is automatically daas Torah. If a gadol asks to pass the salt, is that daas Torah? Not every decision qualifies as daas Torah. Any decision that involves other sources of influence outside of Torah cannot be considered daas Torah. Whether this is a bias based on relationship, money, secular knowledge and education is irrelevant. The input to a decision must be 100% Torah to qualify as daas Torah. From the involvement RAS had here, it was clear that other factors played a role, though I would not pass judgment. That is enough to disqualify his decisions as daas Torah.<BR/><BR/>Yes, mistakes happen. However, to defend mistakes is no longer a “shogeg”; it is a “mayzid”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-53108292437947226512008-06-12T17:59:00.000-04:002008-06-12T17:59:00.000-04:00Hate to break it to you vus nisht but CB Tragedy s...Hate to break it to you vus nisht but CB Tragedy seems to have tired of this thread.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-11268880713394163072008-06-12T16:57:00.000-04:002008-06-12T16:57:00.000-04:00CBT,You write:“Hey, if you are such a tzadik why a...CBT,<BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“Hey, if you are such a tzadik why are you reading and writing on this blog on the Internet, doesn't that make YOU an oisvurf as well for going against what the gedolim said?”<BR/><BR/>Thank you for calling me tzadik, it makes me feel good. However, I never claimed to be a tzadik, so writing on this blog and surfing the net is no stira to what I see myself as. If, however, you find me to be a tazdik and cannot come to terms with the fact that I use the internet I am sorry for your plight.<BR/><BR/>Also, I did not call you an oisvurf for going against what the gedolim said, I called you an oisvurf for not being noheg the proper kavod with RAS. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“So if I am an "oisvurf" for criticising RAS I must be in very good company”… “are they now also "oisvurfs" for turning the great gadol RAS into a lo tzayis dino?”<BR/><BR/>Do I really need to answer that, or is it enough for me to remind you that you are just an oisvurf and not R’ Moshe or the Satmar Beis Din?! Perhaps they can pass judgment on RAS, you can’t!<BR/><BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“You seem to think that a critical and open look at gedolim is a thought crime. That is scary. It sounds like something out of Orwell's 1984 book, if you know what that is”<BR/><BR/>For some reason I think I’ve read that being critical of gedolim IS a crime, but it was not in 1984 (yes, I am familiar with it, I once did a book-report on it). Oh right, it was in the Torah! (How many mareh mekomos do you want to prove that it is asur to be critical of a gadol?) <BR/><BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“and oh yeah, please pardon my typos that slip in sometimes, I admit I am not perfect, do you?”<BR/><BR/>We don’t need you to admit that you are not perfect, it’s easy to see. As for me, I admit I’m not perfect too. But at least I don’t go around bashing gedolim in public forums. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Look, just because you are farbissen about your relationship with your alma mater, and the fact that you did not end up getting receiving the kavod you wanted from them, you don’t need to go and trash them publicly. That’s just immature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-44756778778080743202008-06-12T12:24:00.000-04:002008-06-12T12:24:00.000-04:00CB tragedy;I eagerly await your responses to my co...CB tragedy;<BR/><BR/>I eagerly await your responses to my comments from yesterday.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-28931528964520613762008-06-12T12:23:00.000-04:002008-06-12T12:23:00.000-04:00To be fair CB Tragedy is, quite obviously, a Chaim...To be fair CB Tragedy is, quite obviously, a Chaim Berlin talmid and may even still live in Flatnbush and davin in Yeshiva (he seems equally expert at current events as at ancient scutlebutt).<BR/><BR/>Except to Lakewooders, Chaim Berliners are NOT chasidim.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-39070171930443462732008-06-12T10:15:00.000-04:002008-06-12T10:15:00.000-04:00"I wasn't the one to bring up the whole Hirsh stor..."I wasn't the one to bring up the whole Hirsh story, your fellow Litvaks were."<BR/><BR/>But the issue is that "my fellow Litvaks" that bring up these things feel at home on this blog, given other things that you have brought up. "my fellow Litvaks", the 'nasty ones' that you call snags, are NOT the ones that brought this up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-67393295755163129672008-06-12T09:46:00.000-04:002008-06-12T09:46:00.000-04:00Michoelnot all Litvaks are Snags, only the nasty o...Michoel<BR/><BR/>not all Litvaks are Snags, only the nasty ones. I've said that many times.<BR/><BR/>I wasn't the one to bring up the whole Hirsh story, your fellow Litvaks were.Hirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-43843556078891240832008-06-12T08:48:00.000-04:002008-06-12T08:48:00.000-04:00Rav Aharon is a tzadik gadol, a true oheiv Yisroel...Rav Aharon is a tzadik gadol, a true oheiv Yisroel. And if this could happen to Reb Michoel Hirsh shlit"a, it could happen to any other very ehrliche yid. I tremble to think what this mud-slinging on a yid who is in excrutiating pain is causing in shamayim. If Hakadosh Baruch Hu is soneh someone who knows a d'var ervah about another yid, meaning he knows that another yid was oiver on echad min hachamoros, and now comes the one who knows and is me'id yechidi, and Hashem "HATES!" that person... you, are who are stam a zoi blabbing about an ehrliche yid when he is deep in tzar... Oy vey. Hashem yerachem.<BR/><BR/>Did you see him be bo'el his neighbor's wife? Did you see him be over on mishkavei zachor? You saw a yid that is yadua lanu as an ish yashar, who lo aleinu had a son yotzei l'..., perhaps lost himslef and made a very bad decision but maybe not, and you are besmriching him and patting yourself on the back that you are doing a mitzvah raba. <BR/><BR/>Tzig, I am a Litvak, what you call a snag. I like to come to this site and learn something and have an open mind and hopefully gain kavod for Chabad and find a mutial ground. DO REALLY WANT THIS TALK TO REFLECT ON LUBAVITCH!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-26236252359840023362008-06-11T16:43:00.000-04:002008-06-11T16:43:00.000-04:00AM ECHAD WE ARE ONEAM ECHAD WE ARE ONEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-12261265444386215082008-06-11T15:12:00.000-04:002008-06-11T15:12:00.000-04:00This is an undeniable sign of rot and decline in D...<I>This is an undeniable sign of rot and decline in Denmark that any OBJECTIVE observer could spot a mile away.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps. I too do not subscribe to the Hashqafa of Rabbinic infallibilty and certainly don't believe that gedolim are invulnerable to the ravages of dementia. <BR/><BR/>But perhaps all the examples you cite point to a higher, more refined , MORE COMPASSIONATE concsiouseness , a daa's Torah, rather than to the crass, oppresive, manipulative one that you posit ? Just some food for thought.<BR/><BR/><BR/>And the fact that RAS decisions seem so patently wrong and counterintuitive to you prove absolutely nothing as the threshold that Khazal establisehd for us in terms of ציות לדברי חכמים is אפילו יאמרו לך על ימין שהוא שמאל?<BR/><BR/>Ever hear of דעת בעלי בתים הוא היפך דעת תורה?<BR/><BR/>I too was miffed and confused by both the wig store brouhaha and the LIPA ban. But I struggle with my <I>emunas Khakhomim</I> with full cognizance of the <I>Khokhom's Khokhmas haTorah</I> and exalted status over my own. While both of these moves were a bit right of center <I>loit mein na'arishen sekhel</I>, I hardly think that they come close to approaching the אפילו יאמרו לך על ימין שהוא שמאל threshold.<BR/><BR/>If Rav Shmuel and Rav Dovid have gone to battle so be it. That is both their right and their prerogative. However <I>kleinea mentsilakh</I> such as you and I would be best off watching on the sidelines while the titans do battle.<BR/><BR/>If you want to see "rot and decline" go to Philadelphia and check out nebekh, Rav Elya Svei, he has advanced Alzheimers and no one is making a secret of it.<BR/><BR/>If the Khazon Ish were still alive today and aware of the J-Blogs he'd no doubt revise his famous essay on <I>emunas khakhomim</I> from his <I>Emunah u'Vitokhon</I>. Instead of blaming the crisis of <I>emunas khakhomim </I> on suspicion of <I>n'geeos</I>, he'd blame it on suspicion of <I>midos mushkhosos</I> and dementia.The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-65822247037388310612008-06-11T14:47:00.000-04:002008-06-11T14:47:00.000-04:00He has ruined many lives Hmmm...How many??? Are th...<I>He has ruined many lives </I><BR/><BR/>Hmmm...How many??? Are the lives that he ruined more or less numerous and valuable than the ones that he fixed, repaired and or saved?<BR/><BR/>Hey CB tragedy... How many have you ruined?<BR/><BR/>How many did Moshe Rabenu ruin? Remeber one good homicide can ruin your whole life! How about Shaul and Dovid HaMelekh? If /when Sanhedrin slew a ben sorer, would you term that a life ruined or a life redeemed?<BR/><BR/>I'm not trying to minimize the tragedy of the Hersch family and especially of IH. Just trying to bring a sober dispassionate sensibility to the whole issue.<BR/><BR/>"Objective", indeed!The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-7964851463706755202008-06-11T14:39:00.000-04:002008-06-11T14:39:00.000-04:00By the way, your twisted and tendentious defense o...<I>By the way, your twisted and tendentious defense of the indefensible is shocking. </I><BR/><BR/>Stop hyperventilating and tell me what you find wanting in my defense. You have not answered me the basic questions? Are you a parent and are you the parent of an OTD/teen-at-risk child with younger, impressionable siblings?<BR/><BR/>I am the former and thankfully (to date) not the latter. I am not defending MH. From the J-Blogosphere it sure sounds like the guy is a little off kilter and did at least one outrageous thing in commiting his son to Tranquility Bay. OTOH the J-Blogosphere is hardly an unimpeachable source of objective info. In any event as the old saying goes <I>mehn zuhl nisht gehpreevt vehren</I>. I wouldn't want to be either Hersch.<BR/><BR/>But you were levelling a societal critique at Rabbonim and parents alike. What I'm saying is: Who made you such a <I>Kahkham Harozim</I>? It is at best unfair and at worst being <I>meorer dinim on K'lal Yisroel</I> to level the charges that you've levelled. Who made YOU the only compassionate mentsch out there? <BR/><BR/><I>You are coming up with krumme self-serving boich svoras to justify child abuse and abandonment of one in ten of our people when only 60 years ago Jews faced Hitlerian genocide and now face the "Silent Holocaust" of assimiliation and intermarriage which is where these youth at risk will land up.</I><BR/><BR/>Any "solution" to an OTD challenge will by definition be heart-rending. But, I reitereate (and fail to see any krumkeit here other than in your arrogant dismissiveness): What's a parent convinced that the OTD child is leading his/her siblings OTD supposed to do? I don't know the answer and, I suspect, neither do you. Because while it's no doubt true that mnay of the OTD kids who don't somehow fond there way back on TD will end up lost to theri people does losing there siblings along with them minimize the tragedy? Like I said before it's a really unenviable "Sophies Choice!"<BR/><BR/><I>self-serving boich svoras </I><BR/><BR/>How are my boich svoras self-serving? I am neither MH or RAS? I am not on trial and have no need to defend myself. So whence "self-serving"?The Bray of Fundiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552912825252813495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-84148278443876204832008-06-08T18:00:00.000-04:002008-06-08T18:00:00.000-04:00ok vus nisht, you are entitled to your online name...ok vus nisht, you are entitled to your online name here, sorry for misunderstanding what it meant.<BR/><BR/>So now I am an "oisvurf" for picking on poor little innocent Rav Aron, boohoo, who according to you is just an innocent and blameless person. This just shows how you do not have the simplest clue how RAS functions behind the scenes. He is stealthier and trickier than anything the KGB, CIA and Mossad combined could ever come up with in a "handler" and mastermind. He has ruined many lives with his quiet way of operating usually by getting others, willingly and sometimes unknowingly to to do his dirty work for him so that he can remain mister squicky clean, the enigmatic smiling gadol. But in the MH saga the mask fell off and the world got to get a good look at the real RAS and at how he operates and noone is fooled by all your silly protests.<BR/><BR/>So if I am an "oisvurf" for criticising RAS I must be in very good company because RAS is an infamous and KNOWN lo tzayis dino as is well known, based on OPENLY published piskei din, by no less than Rav Moshe Feinstein personally and in his capacity as av bais din of Agudas Harabonim, the bais din of Satmar, and several other known batei din, and accodring to you, because they dared to call RAS for a din Torah multiple times in the RSC matter and he turns them down all the time, are they now also "oisvurfs" for turning the great gadol RAS into a lo tzayis dino? That was not my doing. <BR/><BR/>When RAS was mevaze a yid who owned a sheitel store and ruined his parnosa because he refused to take down some dumb posters of a lady wearing sheitels that you can see in any magazine that comes to all frum homes (of course not in the Yated and Modia of course, they only like photos of old rabbis taking nedovas) and first sends out a letter and then a second that makes him (RAS) look like he is on a wild goose chase trying to make Flatbush into a great place when there is a known cabaret nightclub just up the road from CB next to the Subsational Grill where CB bochurim go eat all the time on and which RAS has never tried to shut down. <BR/><BR/>Or the great "kidduish H-shem" of how RAS was BEGGED, by people within CB, the Jungreis family to be precise, to take back his signature from the Avrohom Schor forged kol koreh and refused, and making LIPA in the eyes of the many people he (Lipa) inspires (sorry not everyone gets turned on from gedolim sitting in backroom offices plotting how to ruin the lives of people on the outside, some people just like a little music and singing to make them feel good and happy and that is what Lipa provides, innocent heimishe fun, which RAS hates and cannot fargin others to enjoy) and make Lipa look like a total idiot or even a rosha when he did absolutely nothing wrong. So does that make Lipa and people like him oisvurfs as well? <BR/><BR/>Hey, if you are such a tzadik why are you reading and writing on this blog on the Internet, doesn't that make YOU an oisvurf as well for going against what the gedolim said?<BR/><BR/>You seem to think that a critical and open look at gedolim is a thought crime. That is scary. It sounds like something out of Orwell's 1984 book, if you know what that is, and as if frum Jews are now victims of the ayatolas of Flatbush, Boro Park and Lakewood.<BR/><BR/>The IH saga should be taught in schools of social work and at Torah Umesorah workshops about how things can go horribly wrong when misguided parents, especially raw Baalei Teshuva like MH, who try to assert frumkeit on their sceptical and resistant kids by force, how and why the subsequent rebellions and explosions happen (humans, especially Jews, by nature, hate dictators), how even gedolim then get involved and come up with the wrong conclusions and remedies and defenses, and how this type of situation should never happen again.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but the truth does hurt, I know, and oh yeah, please pardon my typos that slip in sometimes, I admit I am not perfect, do you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-38709652125934103022008-06-08T13:51:00.000-04:002008-06-08T13:51:00.000-04:00its so ironic the people r aron scheter hurt are...its so ironic the people r aron scheter hurt are now taking vare of his sick wife reb aron do tesuva ..i love you myer m appel brother in law of reb mendel weiss ahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-8607344575047354672008-06-08T11:45:00.000-04:002008-06-08T11:45:00.000-04:00I have to say one thing; the whole blog is kedai j...I have to say one thing; the whole blog is kedai just to be able to read tragedy's comments. he is clear, fair, and compelling.<BR/><BR/>i know the hersh saga inside out and he is, as usual, right on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-18863895932491485132008-06-08T10:02:00.000-04:002008-06-08T10:02:00.000-04:00CBT,You write:“I think you meant to write "veis ni...CBT,<BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“I think you meant to write "veis nisht" so your Yiddish is pretty bad”… <BR/><BR/>Obviously if you decide what I want to write you can find many mistakes. However, you are the one making the mistake. My first language was Yiddish, and I would venture to say that I speak it as well as you or anybody else around here. “vus nisht” is short for “far vus nisht” (which, by the way, means why not). But it’s OK, I was not expecting you to stick to the topic the whole way. You always like to take a cheap shot. Sorry it didn’t work out for you this time. <BR/>As it happens, I was recently told that “A rant is no substitute for an intelligent debate based on the facts”, so I will attempt to address your great concern of “Haredi and Hasidic communities and how parenst”… Wait… What the heck does “parenst” mean?! <BR/><BR/> <BR/>That said, I think you missed my point entirely. I was not in any way defending MH or anybody who partook in leaving this child in Tranquility Bay after they understood under what conditions he was living. I was simply standing up for the kavod of RAS, who did not knowingly partake in causing IH any harm. RAS was grossly misinformed, and did not jump to conclusions based on testimonies of the three stooges. As you yourself write, “Michael Hersh (MH) who dragged RAS into this horrendous garbage scenario”. RAS was dragged into this and grossly misinformed the entire way. The second RAS saw the child’s conditions, he had MH sign the release forms. <BR/>If your aseres hadibros are true or false is of no consequence here. I am maskim that IH was unreasonably held under subhuman conditions, and I am maskim the Tranquility Bay is no place for a Jewish kid. What I am not maskim to is the way you degrade RAS. An oisvurf like yourself should never stand up to somebody like RAS, especially in this case where part of your information is wrong. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“Who cares if it was Branson from Virgin Atlantic airlines or Shareshvsky a controversial yid in Virginia who helped fly them to Jamaica?”…<BR/><BR/>Nobody cares! That was not my point! My point was that you can not expect any sane person to listen to a word that man says based on his track record!<BR/><BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/>“It's impossible to conceive what what RAS and MH were thinking that MH could head Hatzola of Flatbush and "save lives"“<BR/><BR/>MH is not, nor ever was, anywhere near a position of “Head of Hatzolah of Flatbuah”. The average Hatzolah member never even heard the name Michael Hirsch before this incident took place! MH was hired by Hatzolah to write computer programs, as he is a computer programmer by trade. He was not in a position to do the lifesaving work of a Hatzolah member. He had only worked for Hatzolah for a few months before story broke, and was let go right after the news became public.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The way you try to use MH’s position at Hatzolah story just shows how you are just another guy who reads a few articles online or in the paper and then draws up an entire story based on it. It would not have taken more than three minutes of simple research to see that the whole Hatzolah thing was all wrong. And with perhaps a bit more research you might have actually ended up with some truth in your twisted theories. To write degrading things about RAS when you have not clue about what role or part he played in this tragic story is just sickening azuz! <BR/><BR/><BR/>And one last time I will reiterate that I am in no way defending any of the horrors that befell IH. But the fact that you can even begin to blame any of his misery on RAS is very farfetched.<BR/>Your chutzpah knows no bounds!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com