tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post7723085261930242822..comments2024-03-06T12:52:47.385-05:00Comments on Circus Tent - הירשל ציג'ס בלאג: "א נייער "טיילונגHirshel Tzig - הירשל ציגhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08911009966581004937noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-51472638847651437812015-11-16T11:16:20.738-05:002015-11-16T11:16:20.738-05:00This topic wasn't touched already for years, b...This topic wasn't touched already for years, but as i found it randomly, and i look at the vien kehila today, i can see a nice big kehila of hundreds chasidish people who are following the ruv, mosdos chinuch of hundreds of children in williamsburg, and the same in b.p. and monsey, and a nice chasidish yeshivah of over 100 buchirem that's located in "crown heights", lately opened a yeshiva ketane in monsey, very well named kolelim of yingaleit that are standing out with their torah and yiras shumayim and midos tovos, and heaving under his leadership 3 shuls in boro park, and 2 in monsey, he has by his shalesh sidas tish hundreds of people from all around williamsburg, something that wouldn't happen if he wouldn't change the style of that ashkenaizisha kehilah that was on the way down the drain, I was sure he had a further look with that change he made. he is leading a nice big kehila "with no machlokels in there", the whole machlokes that was 2011 came from a few trouble makers in the kehila, and he did everything possible to make order in there, as he describe in the drushe.<br />It was for sure a good move, Now we can see the great results.<br />stop being stupid.krukevernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-89724466973689234912011-06-10T13:34:15.436-04:002011-06-10T13:34:15.436-04:00The Inmates are Running the Asylum...The Inmates are Running the Asylum...Social Serviceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01926836565575583529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-91891156941376513552011-06-07T17:39:53.385-04:002011-06-07T17:39:53.385-04:00This should be a lesson to all non Chassishe kehil...This should be a lesson to all non Chassishe kehillos and Shuls. Don't take a Chusid to be your Rav. Promises ahin, promises aher.<br /><br />שום תשים עליך מלך....לא תוכל לתת עליך איש נכרי אשר לא מזרעך הואWake up Yiddennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-22689391155549947362011-06-07T10:08:42.057-04:002011-06-07T10:08:42.057-04:00who paid for the weddings he paid in the Shul.
le...who paid for the weddings he paid in the Shul.<br /><br />let's not forget that he changed the Beis Hkneses (without a mezuza on the entrance) to a social hall.Leibnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-15029768085638674682011-06-07T00:28:58.039-04:002011-06-07T00:28:58.039-04:00Anon,
'Al teharer' applies if you don'...Anon,<br />'Al teharer' applies if you don't see him continue doing it again and again.<br />No issur? Mechaneh shem! A whole segment of klal Yisroel? All yekkehs? I'm sure Hashem is very proud of you.<br />I haven't bad mouth gedolai Yisroel. Even if the RAAK isn't a liar etc. what makes him a gadol be'yisroel? 100 chassidim? A peltz?<br />I mentioned his lack of succes in the yeshivah as response to your comment that RAAK chased out Dayan fisher to 'grow' the yeshiva. (a moot point as it still is self serving and not true.)<br />Identifying a person as a bum is not 'despising' nor a group. <br />all in all, you did a great job defending his LIE about changing minhagim by saying maybe he got a heter. His stealing and closing mosdos by saying that at least he tried something new. He fought with Dayan Fisher because he is old time and an idiot. You defended his shameful hatred of the old veiners by saying you hate them too. good job! But what about the other issues? His GAAVA that he is a nefesh tzadik min hashamyim. His trying to intall his son a dayan without the kehilla's permission. these are also his gadlus?Mendel Hirschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-9200786978242959252011-06-06T23:52:50.827-04:002011-06-06T23:52:50.827-04:00I seemed to have missed a lot.
I wasn't aware ...I seemed to have missed a lot.<br />I wasn't aware of this thread.<br />Oh Yes, The Viener Rav is really one of the Yechidai Segulah of this dor.<br />I don't believe any other Rav in America comes close to him.<br />He receives a salary of over $120,000. per year, plus medical insurance, plus he gets paid rent for the house he owns and lives in, plus a car and driver, and other benefits.<br />Yes everyone will agree, he is an a league by himself, no other Rav of a kehila comes close.<br />Oh, and he works extremely hard, for all this pay.<br />He gives a weekly shalosh seudah torah, one or two shiurim to Baalei Batim, and throw in a perek drosho. All this for the above salary.<br />Yechidai SegulahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-66919078901254394902011-06-06T21:34:16.025-04:002011-06-06T21:34:16.025-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"bringing in satmar bums to be ...Mendel Hirsch<br />"bringing in satmar bums to be counselors"<br />I will answer you with your own words<br />"Shame on you for despising a group of yidden that way, calling them ...."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-10718688064218873692011-06-06T21:33:15.093-04:002011-06-06T21:33:15.093-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"removing the kehilla leaders t...Mendel Hirsch<br />"removing the kehilla leaders that ran it for years"<br />what is the name of the manager in the Parksville camp? he looks like a viener yekke to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-63203218747565674142011-06-06T21:30:34.895-04:002011-06-06T21:30:34.895-04:00Memdel Hirsch
"I don't care how successfu...Memdel Hirsch<br />"I don't care how successful it is under your new 'found' leadership. that is so off the point."<br />if you don't care the size and the success, then why are you chewing it when you discuss the Ravs successes rate of his yeshiva leadership?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-66863330585422862682011-06-06T21:28:37.604-04:002011-06-06T21:28:37.604-04:00Mendel Hirsch
Was it really a neder al daas rabim ...Mendel Hirsch<br />Was it really a neder al daas rabim with all its implication? even if you would chas vesholem believe that the Rav sinned,You probably know the chazal ....Al Teharar Olouv baYom Shemo Osu Teshuva...Plus you have no idea if he asked rav wosner a heter on his move.<br />To get the facts straight, he had a Yeshivah in Szombotahali of 50 boys for sure, if you accuse one of the Gedolie Hadoir on lying , at least don't have the chutzpa to lie in the heat of this discussion.<br /><br />Yoely Roth is a cheder thing and it happened lately, <br /><br />If the Hothiezer talmidim would stick to vien, it would be 50 times the size.<br />I don't hate Viener yiden(how can you hate a object or group that does not exist?), there is no issur to call a idiot a idiot, but badmouthing Gedolie yisroel is kefira and the Gehienom is too little for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-52419423435779976512011-06-06T17:36:45.228-04:002011-06-06T17:36:45.228-04:00@anon 12:53
I'm not sure what you mean. The 3...@anon 12:53<br />I'm not sure what you mean. The 3 bachurim that he had became baalei batim? so it was not a failure?<br />@anon 1:04<br />I don't of anyone that tried to contact rav wosner. Why? have you heard that rav wosner was matir his neder made al daas rabim? bifnei rabim? (and yes that would make RAAK a low life liar).<br />@ anon 1:09<br />90% of RAAK talmidim joined a different kehilla led by yoily roth.<br />During the hodhazer z"l many talmidim joined vein. many of the veiners today are his talmidim. but you exposed yourself again. You just don't like vein. you defend RAAK not by the fact but because you dislike vein. to you they are 'idotic yekkehs'. If you don't like yekkehs go to satmar, but don't force your way on vein. (Shame on you for despising a group of yidden that way, calling them idiotic.) <br />@ anon 1:13<br />firing the staff and administration, removing the kehilla leaders that ran it for years, bringing in satmar bums to be counselors and changing the rules so that veiner 'idiotic yekkehs' won't send their kids = stealing a camp. I don't care how successful it is under your new 'found' leadership. that is so off the point.Mendel Hirschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-10954013187128675892011-06-06T13:13:12.332-04:002011-06-06T13:13:12.332-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"stole the camp and made it cha...Mendel Hirsch<br />"stole the camp and made it chasidish closed down the BP yeshivah because he couldn't make it chasidish"<br />BTW, Is having a bigger learning curriculum in July and August and less base ball, Chasidish or derech chasam sofer?<br />Is the camp not full to the brim with the new administration?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-5580254566376201392011-06-06T13:09:29.509-04:002011-06-06T13:09:29.509-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"Fisher was rosh yeshiva even w...Mendel Hirsch<br />"Fisher was rosh yeshiva even when the Hudhazer Z"L was Veiner rov."<br />the last years of the Hothiezer the Yeshivah was dwindling down, it did not start in the new ruv years.It is also very important to mention that by Rav Katz 90% of his Talmidim became part of the Kehila and if not the old idiotic yekkes there would have been even more Talmidim in the Kehila, By the Huthiezer nobody joined the Kehila, they all left to other kehilahs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-71974472823606774062011-06-06T13:04:22.035-04:002011-06-06T13:04:22.035-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"He never even tried to keep th...Mendel Hirsch<br />"He never even tried to keep the old way. He made changes right away. That is a LIE in plain English or SHEKER if loshon hakodesh. the halacha shaaleh of is changing to sfard mutter has nothing to do with it."<br />did nobody in the Kehila that heard the promise contact rav wosner? Ribono Shel Olam, it is not just a Loi Sisgodedu shiela, it is a question of a low life liar?<br />Do you have the transcript of the first derosha with the promise? <br />Which year after his new rabunas did he statrted changing? Didnt he give a derosha on the change?<br />Am I correct with my recollection that his first change was the Hakofas shemini Atezeres? what year was it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-2869076061639309392011-06-06T13:02:02.426-04:002011-06-06T13:02:02.426-04:00Schneur, as a non-American I am lacking the in-dep...Schneur, as a non-American I am lacking the in-depth knowledge necessary to voice an objective opinion about the structures of American congregations. Nevertheless, it seems to me that there exist basically two types of communities:<br />a) those owned by the rov<br />b) those owning the rov.<br />None of them can claim to be a continuation of the old time European communities, where the Rov was elected - by giving preference to a suitable family member of the former Rov - and whose contract could never be terminated.yoshe kalbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-23372064866953723912011-06-06T12:53:10.049-04:002011-06-06T12:53:10.049-04:00Anon
"Rav Katz had a yeshiva when he was Rabb...Anon<br />"Rav Katz had a yeshiva when he was Rabbi of Sombothel, and it was a great flop and failure."<br />It is a lie, it was a baal batishe yeshivah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-21638854141957178732011-06-05T23:16:54.451-04:002011-06-05T23:16:54.451-04:00@ANON 10:02
I did not speak about if it mutter to ...@ANON 10:02<br />I did not speak about if it mutter to make changes. He may have spoken to Rav Wosner. But that is not the issue. HE said he won't make changes. but, He never even tried to keep the old way. He made changes right away. That is a LIE in plain English or SHEKER if loshon hakodesh. the halacha shaaleh of is changing to sfard mutter has nothing to do with it. <br />@ anon 10:11<br />RAAK had a yeshiva in sumbetehel, (his rabistava before Vein). That failed. He has tried a veiner yeshiva since fisher. it failed. Fisher was rosh yeshiva even when the Hudhazer Z"L was Veiner rov. RAAK came in and then it failed! you see a pettern here? I do. And it involves RAAK and failed yeshivos not Dayan Fisher. <br />"but rav fisher was old school...." once again the fault is 'old school'. Are you reform or something? Since when is old school a bad thing? Ever hear of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it'? RAAK just wanted it to be more chasidish, but there was nothing wrong with the yeshivah under dayan fisher. (other than being 'old Vein' and RAAK couldn't stand it. so he stole the yeshivah from fisher, stole the camp and made it chasidish closed down the BP yeshivah because he couldn't make it chasidish AND then he complains that the real veiners don't send their children to the mosdos.<br />It's like the guy who kills his parents and asks for mercy as a yosom. RAAK killed the mosdos and is upset no one sends.<br />"Btw, why did the Kehila not take Rav fischer for Rav?" That is a good question. I wasn't directly involved so i don't know for sure. we can speculuate that davke because he was a local boy they didn't take him. It is well known that kehillos don't like to take local boys so much. However, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAAK!! even if Dayan Fisher is not the right person for Rov, he could be a great Rosh Yeshivah. and if he isn't, so what? RAAK is the one who is rov. he is bound by his promises and he has stolen and is trying toruin the kehilla. He is the misnaged sent from shamayim to stop a good thing and BH the kehilla is finally standing up for itself to save the good. (to paraphrase RAAK).Mendel Hirschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-59666730531280572212011-06-05T22:34:01.755-04:002011-06-05T22:34:01.755-04:00anon 10:11
Rav Katz had a yeshiva when he was Rabb...anon 10:11<br />Rav Katz had a yeshiva when he was Rabbi of Sombothel, and it was a great flop and failure.<br />Also, after Fischer was replaced in Vien, whatever Rav Katz tried was a flop, so what does all that have to do with Dayen Fischer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-62415349441984392372011-06-05T22:11:43.744-04:002011-06-05T22:11:43.744-04:00Mendel Hersch
"He closed down the Yeshivos th...Mendel Hersch<br />"He closed down the Yeshivos that the Dayanim Halperin and Fisher had"<br />I dont know about Halperoins mosdois, but if I remember correctly the Viener mesivta was a big failure(and I will admit it still is)by Rav Fischer, when Rav Katz was ordained as the Rav, he tried to infuse new blood in the yeshivah. He tried so many ways but did not succeed, but Rav Fischer was old school and no changes were possible with him, so he was replaced. You are building conspiracies on lies and misinformation.<br />Btw, why did the Kehila not take Rav fischer for Rav?he was a local boy, he would hold the minhogim till the last guy would close the lights.<br />Were the votes fixed by Rav Katz?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-90011219345408532062011-06-05T22:02:17.741-04:002011-06-05T22:02:17.741-04:00Mendel Hirsch
"HE said before he was voted on...Mendel Hirsch<br />"HE said before he was voted on and at his hachtarah in his drasha that he will not change any minhagim and is there to uphold the old way. He lied"<br />did he consult Rav Wosner before he made the first change?<br />I think it was Hakofas on Shemini Atzeres?<br />Nobody told Rav Wosner that Rav Katz is a blatant liar? He promised and he rennegesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-62523741062040494992011-06-05T16:08:34.148-04:002011-06-05T16:08:34.148-04:00A hassidic chapel is not the same as a communal sy...A hassidic chapel is not the same as a communal synagogue.Are shiraim just morsels of food?Can one compare a sprawling,suburban MO shule to an intensely focused chassidic prayer center?Doesn't kavannah count for anything?Hence different religious entities need to be treated differently in terms of ownership and jurisdiction.Getzlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-13147474277155823712011-06-05T16:06:57.531-04:002011-06-05T16:06:57.531-04:00"Growing up in NH , CT there were well over 1..."Growing up in NH , CT there were well over 10-11 orthodox congregations NONE owned by the rabbi"<br /><br />that's why there is none there now! (except charedi) the same happened at YU when their rabbi died because of the board own kehila.. or in the rest of the land,I would not say the present model of kehilas is good but from a chredi standpoint it's the only way kehilos can work today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-79261744980667122472011-06-05T15:04:04.665-04:002011-06-05T15:04:04.665-04:00YK. If what you say is correct, and you make an e...YK. If what you say is correct, and you make an excellent case, why then did the vast majority of congregations started prior to 1940 not belong to individual rabbis and even today the MO shuls are all not owned by their rabbis.<br />Growing up in NH , CT there were well over 10-11 orthodox congregations NONE owned by the rabbi. Same was true in Bpt, Hartford, all over. <br />i presume places like the Lower eats side and Chicago had chassidic rebbes who owned their shuls but this was not the norm. Yet all the large shuls in NY were public institutions .If they were private there would be no need for an Agudas Horabonim... and their complainst of lack of parniossah and their need to get into hechsherim to make a living.<br />If we accept your economic/political explaination we are left in the dark why the masses of MO Jews in places like Teaneck, Riverdale, LA, Upper west Side West Ornage all belogn to shuls that are owned and managed by lay people.Teaneck should have 40-50 shtiblech owned by all sorts of MO rabbis.Yet I can not think of one whose nechosim are owned by the rav! Why is it that rabbi Riskin did not own the LSS How come rabbi Lookstein does not own KJ and others ?Rabbi Arthur Schneier does not own the PES, I doubt there is a rabbinically owned shul in Bergen County.The Spanish Portuguesse synagogue has been around for hundreds of years and yes its a public institution as was the oldest East European shul BMH on the LES until its demise. recently<br />So it is not odd acccording to your shitah that the most American branch of orthodoxy continues the European model of rabbinic leadership vz shuls and the least american seems to be plugged into the AMERICAN MODEL AS YOU STATE YELAMDENU RABBEINU ?<br />What I am driving at is the entrepenurial nature of Charedi (at least part of it)udiasm where money, power and kavod are all there is so why share it , the rav rebbe manhig uses the shul instead of a nursing home, or real estate for his business, nothing is off limits for the profit drive. Thus yeshivas, mikvehs, shuls and who knows what else are all private businesses (not institutions ) in the Charedi world , while in the mO world the same are all public institutions.schneurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-70670353001632663972011-06-05T14:17:42.631-04:002011-06-05T14:17:42.631-04:00Schneur,
you must not forget, that many communitie...Schneur,<br />you must not forget, that many communities and their rabbonim in Europe, and especially those under German Imperial or Hapsburg jurisdiction ( which includes Galicia, Hungary, Slovakia and parts of Romania ) were at least partly funded by the government and by the "Kultus Steuer" ( religious tax ). This tax had to be paid by every citizen to his respective denomination and was collected by the fiscal authorities, who, in turn, allocated it to the various communities.<br />Things are different in the U.S.A.,where congregations are -per constitution- private enterprises and don't enjoy the same status as did communities in many parts of Europe. I also think, that rabbonim in independent Poland, including former Czarist territories, were salaried by the government, but I am not sure of this.<br />What I am trying to say is, that the situation in Europe was totally different from the U.S.A. and necessitated elections of the Rov.yoshe kalbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13084425.post-74372657396540275872011-06-05T13:47:58.580-04:002011-06-05T13:47:58.580-04:00It seems like the satmar revolution or evolution i...It seems like the satmar revolution or evolution is alive and well and going forwardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com