There's always another side to each story, and always a counterpoint to be made. I refer you to the post entitled "All Yidden are Shayech to Nesi Doreynu." The point there is not to say that all Yidden are to become "Lubavitchers" nor that they drop all their Minhogim. The point the Rebbe makes is that The Tzaddik supplies you with your Chayus and you there are connected to him, whether you know it or not. Therefore it would be beneficial to you to follow in his footsteps and Chazzer the Maamer at the wedding just like he did. My guess would be that the same goes for other Minhogim as well, and I may be contradicting myself within 5 lines here, but the Rebbe says it only concerning the wedding Maamer.
My buddy Chabakuk Elisha thinks that all Tzaddikim join in this monumental task of supplying Chayus to Yidden, not just The Nesi'ei Chabad, and he goes even further. He doesn't buy into the notion that all Yidden should learn Chassidus Chabad and follow the Chabad Nesi'im, on the contrary. He thinks that most of those who consider themselves Lubavitchers, whether Baalei Tshuvah or Frum from birth, whether they themselves joined Chabad or whether they can trace their lineage back to the Alter Rebbe should leave Chabad and join other groups. They only cause pain and embarrassment. Only those who are an asset to Chabad and The Rebbe, whether by being a living example or by teaching others, should be allowed to stay.
Maybe he's got a point. Maybe he feels that there has been too much emphasis one way and now we need to pull back a bit. Stop focusing on "Kiruv" and Hafotzoh and go "back to the basics." Make Lubavitch like it used to be. That would be nice, and the Rebbe surely would enjoy that aspect, the return to roots part of it. But then again; nothing would LOOK better for Chabad than to have it produce all Tchachkes and Tachshitim, all fine young Chasidishe Yungeleit. I say LOOK because that's all it would be, LOOK better. There's no reason why anybody needs to be influenced by any amount of "Kiruv" he or she does. If a businessman who deals with Goyim all his life can keep his outward appearance, although his inside is still suspect, then a "Kiruv" worker definitely should have no problem. Especially since the "Rebbe git Kayches."
Lubavitch for Lubavitchers!!!!!
20 comments:
Chabakuk's thinking is flawed because his premise is flawed. The Baal Shem Tov had many Talmidim Hararei Olam, and chaverim of the Tzadikim Nistarim as well, and yet the chayus was nimshach through him. The Maggid as well had chaverim of the same caliber, Talmidei HaMagid, yet the same applied.
Another flaw in his premise is that we were told that Chasidus is Nachlas Haklal. Which means the drunken Kfar Chabad dropout who served in the army and burps up beer after swinging to Yechi on Shabbos and reading Yediot, Chasidus belongs to him as well. Gei freg der Oibershter on His derachim.
Chabakuk reminds me of the story of Reb Elimelech speaking of his brother Reb Zushe, that he is given the entire world in his hands to do with it as he pleases when he says Tehilim, but he gives it back as is when he is done... While Reb Meilech would have changed a thing or two.
Tzig, so mentalblock's countercry would be... Lubavitch for Barry? What?
Well, since my friend Hirshel has put words in my mouth, I guess I am forced to state my postion (in my own words - ahem):
I am not a beliver in the isolationist, "one true way," philosophy. I think that although Nisiei Chabad are MY Rabbeim, I do not maintain that they are the only leaders, Tzaddikim, Nesiim, Derech etc. - and I think that all real Rebbes, Tzaddikim, Nessiim, Derachim are equally valid.
I do, however, think that Chassidus Chabad should be learned by all - aderaba, why shouldn't it?
Chabad Minhagim? I think that any chossid that wants to keep minhagei Chabad should feel free to go right ahead - but not that anyone should force them or demand (or even wish) that they do.
I dont know what HMMM is trying to bring out, but Chassidus dosent "belong" to a drunken K"C dropout and more than any other guy:
Eib er lerent nit Chassidus iz es bichlal nit 'zeintz,' un eib er is a boor vaam haaretz... lo am haaretz chossid.
In my perfect world, priorities would be adjusted quite a bit. We dont need to build up out numbers with guys that cant read heabrew but wear a kappote with their jeans and yellow glag. Puhleeze.
Hmmm
I lost you at the last line of your comment; what's that about mentalblock?
When I learn chabad chassidus, other areas of Torah (especially soyd)become clearer to me, and with my new understanding, I can see these other areas in a clearer light. But I wouldn't say that the rabe'im were mechadesh something that was not intrinsically in Torah before (for those who had a qualified teacher in Soyd).
Therefore, I feel that it's ignorance to say that someone who doesn't learn Toras Chabad has no shaychus to these concepts.
Also, please don't confuse the mystical concept of the Rebbe still being a tzinor for chayos to this world (and therefore the need to learn his Torah), with the practical need to have a living moreh horo'oh to who you go for questions and advice, and yes, leadership.
This question is facinating.Is it possible to be a yid "bishlaimus" if youre not connected to the Rebbe? According to the Rebbe it would seem not. If you take into account the Sichos of 51-52 where the Rebbe clearly refers to himself as the Novi and Moshiach shabodor,theres nothing to talk about.(Where not getting into the whole Tamuz 3 issue ).But say in 5735 ,how could you be a complete Jew if you are ,say a Gerer chosid.If the Rebbe is the Moshe and Nosi and he says you have to do Chitas,mivtzoim etc. etc. etc. and you dont because your Ger,youre missing out.Im not blaming the Gerer chosid,her just following his Rebbe who does not encourage Mivtzoim etc. My point is that according to the
Rebbes teachings that jew would seem to be lacking.
Anon
I guess it depends on how you define "lacking" (Of course, I'd probably disagree with where you seem to be going).
> This question is facinating.Is it possible to be
> a yid "bishlaimus" if youre not connected to the Rebbe?
Der Rebe (Reb Nachman Breslover ztz"l) says the same. If someone in our time is not attached to a tzaddik - his avoydo is not complete.
There is a big lack of seeking Chasidus in our time. Many think everything should be static, everything is known before hand etc. etc. That's not what a true Chasidus is. Chosid has to search for it, and search hard.
Doh ligt di hunt bagrobben!
what Misnagdim can't digest is the fact that without being connected to a Rebbe Bistu a Chosser there's a major element missing! No matter who you are. And this is incurs the wrath, statements like this. Breslov gets it too for this reason amongst others.
Tzig, as opposed to your cry of Lubavitch for Lubavitchers.
visitor, first time in torah. past protestant theologian, after left politician, now a happy man. what does the torah say about other people, non jewish
dietrich: The Toyro says they have to be righteous.
Why are Lubavitchers so funny?
One has to connected to a 'leybedigeh rebbe'.Connecting oneself to a dead rebbe is easy, one does what ones yetser horah wants, and one 'puts words' (or opens igrais)in that rebbes mouth to 'allow' them.
To me this is the height of chitzoiniyus to darshen how important a rebbe is and than stick to one who has passed away and cannot be asked or offer real guidance.
Willy, why are you so funny?
Some Rebbes are very much alive after 120, but that is s.th. you only know if you study chassidus instead of reading דער אראבער or בלאטע .Or how do you explain the unprecedented growth of Breslov (once called "Toite Chassidim")? Better a Rebbe in an Ohel than in a tent...
Di Rebbe lebt, di shayleh iz tzi mir leben
I can sympathize with your question, especially since that was the point the Rebbe first tried to make after the FR passed away, that the Rebbe is with us and we can continue like this without appointing a new Rebbe. The Oylem wouldn't hear of it then so we were Zoycheh to 44 years of the Rebbe. But now the Rebbe's "wishes" have been fulfilled, and this is the situation we live in till Moshiach comes.
You just repeat words you heard from your preydikers.
You cannot have a dead rebbe, at least not in yiddishkait and surely not as chasidisheh yidden.Had am yisroel known about this shtick we would never have any leader after Moshe Rabbeinu
Willy
dead and alive is all relative. Bobov, lemoshol, is dead, as is Vizhnitz, but they seem alive. Breslov and Chabad are alive and they may seem dead. So you see? not everything is what it seems.
willy, reshoim bechayehem kruim meisim. Have they issued you a death certificate yet? A dead man can have a dead Rebbe.
> You cannot have a dead rebbe, at least not in yiddishkait and surely not as chasidisheh yidden
Misnagdim thought sow. Functioners of "chasidus", who prefered hitzoynius and forgot derech haBaal Shem Tov thought so. Breslov proved them to be wrong. The Rebe can be not alive in a physical form. But if his light is left, and there are talmidim who preserved it - it is much better, than an alive "rebbe" who is not at all appropriate for his position.
Breslov
'proved' them wrong:Do you know that Breslov was the ONLY chasidic group that decided not to appoint a new rebbe?Chabad and the rest of chassidus always saw the need for a living rebbe:What has changed?Does Lubavitch 'pick and choose' what they want to follow?
> Do you know that Breslov was the ONLY chasidic group that decided not to appoint a new rebbe?
Not true. Some talmidim of Baal haTania refused to accept any new Rebe after his ptiro. The main thing that is often missed - Breslov didn't have an alive Rebe since the Rebe ztz"l. But his talmidim were tzadikim in their own right, and there are such people in Breslov today as well. They aren't the Rebbe. Breslovers call them chaveyrim. But such people were alsways leaders of Breslover chasidim.
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