Is it realy a big problem? or Ami goes in the footsteps of his old bosses at Mispacha,that dedicated a magazine on that theme, and created a buzz, that snowballed in to letters to the editors for months.I am always thinking when it comes to journalisim that it boils down to famous answer reb Chaim Briskers to a Tzeitungs man , that us 2 are compared to the cat and the landlord.
Everyone has sfeikes in emunah just like everyone has sexual thoughts. That includes the fancy people sitting in Mizrach. Don't get depressed-it's part of being alive and having a Koach Hadimyon. The baal Likutei Moharan addresses these issues with great understanding and clearity.Likutei Moharan is the guidebook for these problems which concern all intelligent Jews. You would do well to get a teacher as many of the Torahs require some understanding of Kabbalah.I don't know of another sefer that deals with these issues in such a forthright manner.Don't let the fools depress you by calling you an apikores or sheygetz. When you study Breslever Hasides you will see that all real Tzaddikim had mood swings that centered around such issues.Likutei Moharan has the intellectual answers and the spiritual practices that will calm your fears and bring you close to the Ribbono shel Olem.
Talmid ... "Likutei Moharan has the intellectual answers and the spiritual practices that will calm your fears and bring you close to the Ribbono shel Olem." I dont agree that the answers are intelectual
By intellectual I mean a clear understanding al pi sechel of how all the kochos hanefesh work as a unified team in the Jewish soul.This includes our physical desires,emotional needs ,intellectual- analytic powers,our creative and imaginative gifts,and of course our profound spiritual yearning to be close to Hashem.You will not get this in the form of a "scientific memorandum" as in Habad Hassidus maamorim but it will become clear to you after learning a number of different torehs in Likutei Moharan.A teacher is recommended. Maybe someone from Rav Kenig's group in Tzfas would be a good choice.Thay have worked hard to make the Rebbe's teachings understandable to contemporary Jewry while remaining completely loyal to the original teachings.Before you know Hashem you have to know yourself.
Anon10:49 How do you explain the Holocaust, Tach veTat, Little children dying of cancer, adults dying of every imaginable disease before reaching middleage,traffic accidents that take teyere yiddishe neshomes in Israel and America,a bus full of Jews burnt alive in the Galil,etc. etc.I'm sorry to say this but I guess your brain is in the off position.Press reset.Most Jews do think about these things.They don't talk about it because they are afraid of the kind of people who wrote this article.
Bpunbound: Compared to the other talmidei haMagid the AR's maamorim were "scientific."I just wanted to show that Brelever torehs were completely different than Habad maamorim. This ,too, requires a response using a fine word like "asinine?" Nobody can remark about Lubavitch if it isn't a quote from a Merkoz publication?By the way how does someone like you" deal and live" with the holocaust?I hardly hear anyone in Habad talk about it even though millions of White Russian and Ukrainian Jews were murdered by the Germans; many of them chasidei Habad.You may be the exception but the holocaust is a non-issue in Lubavitch. This is ironic because alot of secular Jews are attracted to Habad because they see them as the continuation of pre-holocaust Judaism.After a while they move on[like Matisyahu].
What's really happening is that kiruv has been maxed out and there is still big unemployment in Lakewood and elsewhere. Someone came up with the idea that there might be jobs in internal policing of emunos vedeios. Hundreds might potentially be employed in administering polygraphs to yungeleit and bochurim. When you kvetch the baink all day you come up with some interesting ideas...
Bphound "Anon 10:49 is correct. That there are no sfeikos in Emmunah," life ain't so simple, Chazal said, Heoimer Mai Noichel Lemocher Harie Zeh Mikatnie Emuna, meaning that evryone has a little apikoras in their belly
sergei, you could not have missed the boat more. what really is happening is that aish, ohr and the bt lobby have been upset for a while that they do not get enough respect from the ffbs. therefore, they created new adult-at-risk crisises (crisii?) which they claim is based on hashkafa problems which only they, the hashkafa experts like gottleib and becher can teach us. now they think they will be able to mainstream their programs (which are all copied badly from chabad btw) like gateways and chazon.
talmid rabeinnu said... Bpunbound: Compared to the other talmidei haMagid the AR's maamorim were "scientific."I just wanted to show that Brelever torehs were completely different than Habad maamorim. This ,too, requires a response using a fine word like "asinine?"
Actually you proved how asinine your post is. "but the holocaust is a non-issue in Lubavitch."
I'm not sure which lubavitch you're talking about, but I've heard the Rebbe on many occasions talk about the holocaust, crying in the middle of a farbrengen, sicha about it. There's a wealth of dollar videos with the Rebbe answering people's questions, and articles from yechidus that people shared. Chabad never shied away from the holocaust, and the Rebbe has a very clear message of what it means to us today. But since you're convinced that all of life's answers are in likuttei maharan, u have to put down Chabad to justify your ASININE comments.
"This is ironic because alot of secular Jews are attracted to Habad because they see them as the continuation of pre-holocaust Judaism.After a while they move on[like Matisyahu]."
Tsk, tsk, you need to get out into the world a bit my boy.
Mr.Anony. 5:08 Are you normal? What's with your obsession with assanine?It's ok for you to believe that all answers lie in Likutei Sichos but I cannot look to Likutei Moharan for my answers. Thank you for having a Habad house in Uman. It is one of the most mehutzefdike acts I have ever heard of. Nevertheless,thank you. You are a Lubavitcher so you must be thanked. .What you say about the Rebbe is true. However I can tell you from personal experience that the average Lubavitcher has next to no interest in the Holocaust,does not even know that tens of thousands of his fellow hassidim were butchered, and his children in OT and other places know even less.The Rebbe was interested but I am hardpressed to find a Lubavitcher who gives two hoots about the subject.I am afraid that those are the facts,sir.Ask an OT kid if he knows where Babi Yar or Treblinke is? Better yet ask him in what country Auschwitz was. I bet he has no idea.Too busy saying Yehi.And I got news for you: Alot of the Satmerer and Bobover and Belzer kids know alot more about the subject than you guys. Once again,just the facts.
Talmid Rabinu "Thank you for having a Habad house in Uman. It is one of the most mehutzefdike acts I have ever heard of. " Uman was never a Breslover town, it always had a majority of Skverer and Rachmistrivker chasidim. And I believe that they bought the rights from Harav Hatzadik reb Nacman Yosef m'Rachmistrivke.
Talmid... ".Ask an OT kid if he knows where Babi Yar or Treblinke is" ask a Bobover bocher.. ask a Belzer bocher... ask a Satmar bocher... ask a Hesder boy.... you are talking nonsense
To Talmid Rabenu The Holocaust was the prophesied result of the violation of the Three Oaths. Jews were hunted like the deer of the field, exactly as predicted
Kittel; The Jews who were in golah were killed? Why? the Jews in E.Y. were saved. Why?The vast majority of Jews were in golah so why were they punished? The Jews in EY came with the permission of the League of Nations and the British mandate. What did they do wrong? No one rebelled against the Polish or Russian govt. Jews only went with full British permission. So where were the violations?NO REVOLT AND NO HUGE ALIYAH WITHOUT PERMISSION. Explain yourself.There were 18 million Jews in the world in 1939;only about 500,000 approx. were in Israel.This is not aliyah bechomah.Nu?
Oh, it's wonderful to watch a Breslaur and Lubav. fight it out; kind of like a pre-end of Pesach - mashiach sudah, argument over the details of the story with the Besht. Can't get any better. How come, although B & L are similar as to their exclusivity and ethnocentricity (i.e., they both think they are the only true Jews, and missionize frum yidden), how come that ekeldikeh thing about Chabatzkers, the bile in the sensitive throat, doesn't come up around Breslovers; they just don't have that meeyiseh "bite", hatred and 'icheeyness' of many a Chabatzker. Why is that?
Not only do most Lubavitchers know where those places are, but many of the younger generation have visited many of them on their way home from summer or Pesach camp service in the former USSR.
Uman is a chilul Hashem of the first order. I live in Ukraine and among the smallest chilulei Hashem that I heard going on there is that they sell bottles of wine that go for $4.50 in my local Chabad shul kosher store at a mere $20 - $30 to unsuspecting visitors to the kever. That wine was made by a Jewish firm in Ukraine strictly leshem shamayim and it is meant to be sold at cost plus 10% throughout the FSU. I only mention that extremely minor busha because if I mentioned the rest of the things I know, Tzig would have to censor my comment.
A Beis Chabad, if there really is one in Uman, is probably the only thing that Reb Nachman would want to visit if he came back. I actually want to spend a Shabbos in Uman but I won't go because it's (dangerous) nuts and scammers 24/7. We had to bail out one nut already when he committed passport fraud to get into Ukraine after he was banned for his dangerous mishegoss. If it were up to me, I would have let some big lard-fed Ukrainian ax murderer play with the scrawny Breslover kid's cute, long payos for a month or two before springing him from jail because the Chabad shluchim in Ukraine (who do real work spreading real Yiddishkeit) often suffer as a result of the Uman shenanigans.
The "article" is not a serious one deserving of intelligent consideration, even as an op-ed piece.
I will grant that the blogosphere has undoubtedly helped ferment the orthoprax phenomenon, and Klal Yisroel has more apikorsim b'lev than before. But this article has a very creepy tone, using words for them that are appropriate for pedophiles and rapists. "Preying on your daugther"? They lurk in the shadows... Eww. It made me feel uncomfortable and dirty, like walking down a dark and filthy alley with IV drug users roaming and staring.
Also, in its attempt to attack the phenomenon on all fronts, it shot out a barrage of contradictory accusations. It's sfeikos in emuna. And, it's intellectual laziness. And, it's too much information. And, it's the apikorus blogs. And, it's because of deep-seated emotional trauma and/or dysfunction. And, We need to teach hashkafa; Some people are doing it already.
"I fled". I do think that some of these neo-orthopraxim are intellectually dishonest. But this article did not help anyone to accurately define the problem, or reasonably find steps to resolve it. Its effect at this point might be only to create a new type of mind-reading farher/inquisition for shidduchim.
Regarding its one good though poorly phrased point: I think it is a good idea to reinforce the Emunos V'Deios of children and talmidim and talmidos in Yeshivos and seminaries. But the author misses the obvious premise here that throws the rest of the article out; It is an admission that segments of the Chinuch system have been doing a lousy job explaining Ikarei Emuna in a way that is intellectually meaningful BEFORE they discover the sheigetz-blogs and other sources of sofeik.
I would have let some big lard-fed Ukrainian ax murderer play with the scrawny Breslover kid's cute, long payos for a month or two before springing him from jail because the Chabad shluchim in Ukraine (who do real work spreading real Yiddishkeit) often suffer as a result of the Uman shenanigans.
Thursday, April 14, 2011 5:05:00 AM
This is normal talk?A hassidisher yid talks like this? Gevald!
Eight things you can do when your 90 year old holocaust survivor neighbor makes a scene at "Vehie Sheomdoh" 1. Tell him to shut up because if he says another word he will halachically become an apikores and I'll have to ask a shayleh if my wine is still kosher 2.Tell him it's a lot better to be dead than alive. 3. G-d loves his people so He killed them. 4.Give him a copy of the new biography of the Satmerer Ruv and tell him Stephen Wise and the Zionists were responbsible. 5.Call in a Gateways tummler and tell him to have some words with the "greener." 6.Create a distraction by pretending you saw a piece of bread looking at you through the window. 7.Ignore the old man. 8.Put your head in the chrein and cry.
. Theology was never an important issue im Judaism. Note how few seforim were published on this topic compared to Shut, codes and chiddushim etc. And Chassiduth is not theology. Note how few of these seforim enetered our cannon. Does any Yeshiva person study the Moreh.Are there chaburoth in Albo in Lakewood ? Note that most of our theology seforim were written with the intention of being apologetics not lishma. LIke Saadya in response to karaites and rabbiner Hirsch in response to the Reform movement. Would let say Reb Yitzchok Elchonon sit down and write a sefer about emunos vedeeoth ?Our non Halchic corpus is made up of ethial and mystical literature not in catechisms. Given that we ught to accept all Jews at face value. Observance is what counts. The issue of belief is in the court of Hashem not in our hands.He is bodek keliaoth velev. We are not into inquisitions with Inquisitors as to the CORRECT BELIEF.As long as these beliefs are not made public or formally proclaimed, there is no need to pursue them of course unless one can get kavod and money from doing so. Leave that to another religion.Our religion is based on Revealed Legislation and Mitzvath not on sal vation from belief. I think some of the new In reach guys have been watching Billy Graham too much. Are we not told that we are a nation of zaddikim ? Let the In reach people find anothe parnossah. What a time we are in people who were born frum and many who studied in yeshivas for years are being examined by a cadre of BT's who became frum at the Kosel. First 30 years ago the same guys told us that we do not know Halacha and we need to go to the books. Then the same people started writing books telling frum mothers how to raise their kids and how to run their families Based on what ?their books, a few years at some school in jerusalem which probably ignored textual study and living as aJEw stressing right belief,, but most priobably based on their years of getting therapy which all secular jewish kids in the US receive. Now the same chug tells that we do not believe . The late Kluizenberger rebbe once stated "In der alte heim there were also baale teshuva, they sat in the back of the shul and prayed to hashem for forgiveness for their aveiros , today they sit in the mizrach and tell yereim and shelimim how to behave. Olam hafuch raiisi !!! Its time we asserted ourselves , welcoming BT's but because they speak English better and went to Ivy League schools does not qualify them for anything in Judiasm unless they put in the time.
greenie son- Tell your father to start telling the truth . He put on tefillin daily in the camps.Many Yidden had Toms too. He studied daf Yomi in the lageren. He had shemura Matzo brought by the Hungarian rabbis . He had a mehudardike sukkah. The Germasn agreed to serve only Badatz Birkenau soup and Dachau bread(obviously Pas israel) to thsoe who requested so in advance. The Polish jews forgot and were given OU dairy bread. but the Ungaraischer got the Badaatz hashgocha. Tell the old man to knock it off and stop feeling sorry for himself.
This article is a remarkable self indictment of the 'kiruv profession'.
They have no idea what sfeikos in emuna are. Sending them to the "biggest scientists" was all they could do. The stylistic error is as telling as the awe of science as some sudden natural disaster that sweeps away people who should have stayed higher as good drones do.
One of the subjects worked in kiruv but was apparently not trained well enough. What is this training? lobotomy? The author "fled", he probably wants to imply that he has not had quite that much training.
Finally, there is the crown of all frum anxiety disorders: the procreational challenge. A new, unregulated variable appears in shidduchim market, how can law enforcement keep up.
Dear Parents of Children who are in the Parshe: I have recently come across a remarkable device that will help you identify those stealth "apikorsim" out there in the shidduch jungle. It looks like a regular digital camera and all you need to do is point it at the potential choson bocher and pretend you're taking his picture. Actually you are holding a highly sophisticated device which is reading p450 brain waves in this tachshits' brain. Anything above 159-0 khz per second is an indication of apikurshishe thoughts; anything below63khz is an indication of perverse liscivious thoughts.Parents-you now have an advanced scientific method of making sure that the baink kvetcher who comes calling does not have a secret agenda bec ause with modern brain wave science there are no secrets anymore.This product is available at all major Haredi superstores. If you purchase before Pesach you will recieve a free cartridge good for up to twenty brain scans.This device has already been used in an FDA sponsored study in Monsey with truly astounding results.Of course ,it has received glowing endorsements from many of our gedolim. So fret no more-the frum zapper has arrived!
It makes no sense to have sefeikos in emuna because of the holocaust. Hashem never promised us a rose garden in Galus. Just look at the tochacha in Bechukosai and ki-sovo. I admit there is a nisayon but it's not logical.
There can't be a contradiction between science and Torah because they are both true. It is we that don't have sufficient understanding of both.
I'm setting up a Shidduch service that brings together far'dorebe'ne boys and far'dorebe'ne girls, but first you have to prove you're a Richtige Apikoirus, there will be a shtrenge far'her. Fakers need not apply.
why?
ReplyDeleteI heard that he comes across in the article as a person that feels the pain of Klal Yisroel
the problem is that certain people look at Franfurter as a Maskil, I dont know him I just repoer the perception in peoples eyes.
ReplyDeleteIs it realy a big problem? or Ami goes in the footsteps of his old bosses at Mispacha,that dedicated a magazine on that theme, and created a buzz, that snowballed in to letters to the editors for months.I am always thinking when it comes to journalisim that it boils down to famous answer reb Chaim Briskers to a Tzeitungs man , that us 2 are compared to the cat and the landlord.
ReplyDeleteEveryone has sfeikes in emunah just like everyone has sexual thoughts. That includes the fancy people sitting in Mizrach. Don't get depressed-it's part of being alive and having a Koach Hadimyon. The baal Likutei Moharan addresses these issues with great understanding and clearity.Likutei Moharan is the guidebook for these problems which concern all intelligent Jews. You would do well to get a teacher as many of the Torahs require some understanding of Kabbalah.I don't know of another sefer that deals with these issues in such a forthright manner.Don't let the fools depress you by calling you an apikores or sheygetz. When you study Breslever Hasides you will see that all real Tzaddikim had mood swings that centered around such issues.Likutei Moharan has the intellectual answers and the spiritual practices that will calm your fears and bring you close to the Ribbono shel Olem.
ReplyDeleteDo you really need to use Scribd? I don't want to have to use a Facebook account just to download this.
ReplyDeleteTalmid ...
ReplyDelete"Likutei Moharan has the intellectual answers and the spiritual practices that will calm your fears and bring you close to the Ribbono shel Olem."
I dont agree that the answers are intelectual
I didn't like the way that the article portrayed these people as treacherous villains. I feel bad for them...
ReplyDeleteBy intellectual I mean a clear understanding al pi sechel of how all the kochos hanefesh work as a unified team in the Jewish soul.This includes our physical desires,emotional needs ,intellectual- analytic powers,our creative and imaginative gifts,and of course our profound spiritual yearning to be close to Hashem.You will not get this in the form of a "scientific memorandum" as in Habad Hassidus maamorim but it will become clear to you after learning a number of different torehs in Likutei Moharan.A teacher is recommended. Maybe someone from Rav Kenig's group in Tzfas would be a good choice.Thay have worked hard to make the Rebbe's teachings understandable to contemporary Jewry while remaining completely loyal to the original teachings.Before you know Hashem you have to know yourself.
ReplyDelete"Talmid Rabbeinu said... Everyone has sfeikes in emunah"
ReplyDeletespeak for yourself.
What a viscious piece of writing.Why would any secular Jew want to become a BT after reading this?
ReplyDeleteTalmid Rabeinnu
ReplyDeleteI learned all the Rebbes seforim, saw all the works of the talmidie breslov. Their is no real Havona their.
A TSIGELE SHPRING NOCH A MOHL! :)))
ReplyDeleteRead before you talk. Great article.
Just wonder how many of those are there.
Anon10:49 How do you explain the Holocaust, Tach veTat, Little children dying of cancer, adults dying of every imaginable disease before reaching middleage,traffic accidents that take teyere yiddishe neshomes in Israel and America,a bus full of Jews burnt alive in the Galil,etc. etc.I'm sorry to say this but I guess your brain is in the off position.Press reset.Most Jews do think about these things.They don't talk about it because they are afraid of the kind of people who wrote this article.
ReplyDeleteYalmid Rebinie
ReplyDeleteI am like Reb Arele Belzer after he lost everything after the war, and I say I dont know.
talmid Rabeinnu 11:33
ReplyDeleteayin Tanya Chelek 4 Perek 11 D"H Lehaskilcha Binah
We don't have to explain the Holocaust (that will be G-D's job at the appropriate time). We have to deal and live with it.
Anon 10:49 is correct. That there are no sfeikos in Emmunah, Chazall has already Pask'ned, Anu Maaminim Bnei Maaminim.
The problem is that for most of us that fact is as relevant to us a last December's snow in June!
How to live it, Aye, there's the rub!
PS - Are you so insecure that you need to make asinine remarks toward the Baal Hatanya!
Bpunbound: Compared to the other talmidei haMagid the AR's maamorim were "scientific."I just wanted to show that Brelever torehs were completely different than Habad maamorim. This ,too, requires a response using a fine word like "asinine?"
ReplyDeleteNobody can remark about Lubavitch if it isn't a quote from a Merkoz publication?By the way how does someone like you" deal and live" with the holocaust?I hardly hear anyone in Habad talk about it even though millions of White Russian and Ukrainian Jews were murdered by the Germans; many of them chasidei Habad.You may be the exception but the holocaust is a non-issue in Lubavitch. This is ironic because alot of secular Jews are attracted to Habad because they see them as the continuation of pre-holocaust Judaism.After a while they move on[like Matisyahu].
Great article. Tzig do you have an ax to grind with Ami's editors. You sure sound like it. If Ami is banned it will be by fools like you.
ReplyDeleteI don't grind axes, my anonymous friend. I'm just telling what will happen if they keep on writing such articles.
ReplyDeleteI ban things/magazines/websites?!
Wow! Leading a double-life is the new black...
ReplyDeleteWhat's really happening is that kiruv has been maxed out and there is still big unemployment in Lakewood and elsewhere. Someone came up with the idea that there might be jobs in internal policing of emunos vedeios. Hundreds might potentially be employed in administering polygraphs to yungeleit and bochurim. When you kvetch the baink all day you come up with some interesting ideas...
ReplyDeleteBphound
ReplyDelete"Anon 10:49 is correct. That there are no sfeikos in Emmunah,"
life ain't so simple, Chazal said, Heoimer Mai Noichel Lemocher Harie Zeh Mikatnie Emuna, meaning that evryone has a little apikoras in their belly
Sergie
ReplyDelete"came up with the idea that there might be jobs in internal policing of emunos vedeios."
who will police the police?
sergei,
ReplyDeleteyou could not have missed the boat more. what really is happening is that aish, ohr and the bt lobby have been upset for a while that they do not get enough respect from the ffbs. therefore, they created new adult-at-risk crisises (crisii?) which they claim is based on hashkafa problems which only they, the hashkafa experts like gottleib and becher can teach us. now they think they will be able to mainstream their programs (which are all copied badly from chabad btw) like gateways and chazon.
i heard rav moshe wolfson tell how many yunger lite come and tell them of there doughts in emuna...
ReplyDeletetalmid rabeinnu said...
ReplyDeleteBpunbound: Compared to the other talmidei haMagid the AR's maamorim were "scientific."I just wanted to show that Brelever torehs were completely different than Habad maamorim. This ,too, requires a response using a fine word like "asinine?"
Actually you proved how asinine your post is.
"but the holocaust is a non-issue in Lubavitch."
I'm not sure which lubavitch you're talking about, but I've heard the Rebbe on many occasions talk about the holocaust, crying in the middle of a farbrengen, sicha about it. There's a wealth of dollar videos with the Rebbe answering people's questions, and articles from yechidus that people shared. Chabad never shied away from the holocaust, and the Rebbe has a very clear message of what it means to us today. But since you're convinced that all of life's answers are in likuttei maharan, u have to put down Chabad to justify your ASININE comments.
Dovy
ReplyDelete"(which are all copied badly from chabad btw)"
lets atart the p....g contest, who was their first.
it is ludicrous to debate the alter rebbes logic vs. reb nachmans emotional theories.
ReplyDelete"This is ironic because alot of secular Jews are attracted to Habad because they see them as the continuation of pre-holocaust Judaism.After a while they move on[like Matisyahu]."
ReplyDeleteTsk, tsk, you need to get out into the world a bit my boy.
Mr.Anony. 5:08 Are you normal? What's with your obsession with assanine?It's ok for you to believe that all answers lie in Likutei Sichos but I cannot look to Likutei Moharan for my answers. Thank you for having a Habad house in Uman. It is one of the most mehutzefdike acts I have ever heard of. Nevertheless,thank you. You are a Lubavitcher so you must be thanked. .What you say about the Rebbe is true. However I can tell you from personal experience that the average Lubavitcher has next to no interest in the Holocaust,does not even know that tens of thousands of his fellow hassidim were butchered, and his children in OT and other places know even less.The Rebbe was interested but I am hardpressed to find a Lubavitcher who gives two hoots about the subject.I am afraid that those are the facts,sir.Ask an OT kid if he knows where Babi Yar or Treblinke is? Better yet ask him in what country Auschwitz was. I bet he has no idea.Too busy saying Yehi.And I got news for you: Alot of the Satmerer and Bobover and Belzer kids know alot more about the subject than you guys. Once again,just the facts.
ReplyDeleteBPunbound. You're not the only game in town. Way behind Breslev,Aish,Ohr someiach,etc.Tsk,tsk...
ReplyDeleteTalmid Rabinu
ReplyDelete"Thank you for having a Habad house in Uman. It is one of the most mehutzefdike acts I have ever heard of. "
Uman was never a Breslover town, it always had a majority of Skverer and Rachmistrivker chasidim. And I believe that they bought the rights from Harav Hatzadik reb Nacman Yosef m'Rachmistrivke.
Talmid...
ReplyDelete".Ask an OT kid if he knows where Babi Yar or Treblinke is"
ask a Bobover bocher..
ask a Belzer bocher...
ask a Satmar bocher...
ask a Hesder boy....
you are talking nonsense
To Talmid Rabenu
ReplyDeleteThe Holocaust was the prophesied result of the violation of the Three Oaths. Jews were hunted like the deer of the field, exactly as predicted
Kittel..
ReplyDeletewhat are the oats, did Jews get killed because they ate 3 trifene oats?
I am perplexed..
Kittel; The Jews who were in golah were killed? Why? the Jews in E.Y. were saved. Why?The vast majority of Jews were in golah so why were they punished? The Jews in EY came with the permission of the League of Nations and the British mandate. What did they do wrong? No one rebelled against the Polish or Russian govt. Jews only went with full British permission. So where were the violations?NO REVOLT AND NO HUGE ALIYAH WITHOUT PERMISSION. Explain yourself.There were 18 million Jews in the world in 1939;only about 500,000 approx. were in Israel.This is not aliyah bechomah.Nu?
ReplyDeleteAnony.7:17Who bought what rights from whom?
ReplyDeleteOh, it's wonderful to watch a Breslaur and Lubav. fight it out; kind of like a pre-end of Pesach - mashiach sudah, argument over the details of the story with the Besht. Can't get any better.
ReplyDeleteHow come, although B & L are similar as to their exclusivity and ethnocentricity (i.e., they both think they are the only true Jews, and missionize frum yidden), how come that ekeldikeh thing about Chabatzkers, the bile in the sensitive throat, doesn't come up around Breslovers; they just don't have that meeyiseh "bite", hatred and 'icheeyness' of many a Chabatzker. Why is that?
Not only do most Lubavitchers know where those places are, but many of the younger generation have visited many of them on their way home from summer or Pesach camp service in the former USSR.
ReplyDeleteUman is a chilul Hashem of the first order. I live in Ukraine and among the smallest chilulei Hashem that I heard going on there is that they sell bottles of wine that go for $4.50 in my local Chabad shul kosher store at a mere $20 - $30 to unsuspecting visitors to the kever. That wine was made by a Jewish firm in Ukraine strictly leshem shamayim and it is meant to be sold at cost plus 10% throughout the FSU. I only mention that extremely minor busha because if I mentioned the rest of the things I know, Tzig would have to censor my comment.
A Beis Chabad, if there really is one in Uman, is probably the only thing that Reb Nachman would want to visit if he came back. I actually want to spend a Shabbos in Uman but I won't go because it's (dangerous) nuts and scammers 24/7. We had to bail out one nut already when he committed passport fraud to get into Ukraine after he was banned for his dangerous mishegoss. If it were up to me, I would have let some big lard-fed Ukrainian ax murderer play with the scrawny Breslover kid's cute, long payos for a month or two before springing him from jail because the Chabad shluchim in Ukraine (who do real work spreading real Yiddishkeit) often suffer as a result of the Uman shenanigans.
The "article" is not a serious one deserving of intelligent consideration, even as an op-ed piece.
ReplyDeleteI will grant that the blogosphere has undoubtedly helped ferment the orthoprax phenomenon, and Klal Yisroel has more apikorsim b'lev than before. But this article has a very creepy tone, using words for them that are appropriate for pedophiles and rapists. "Preying on your daugther"? They lurk in the shadows... Eww. It made me feel uncomfortable and dirty, like walking down a dark and filthy alley with IV drug users roaming and staring.
Also, in its attempt to attack the phenomenon on all fronts, it shot out a barrage of contradictory accusations. It's sfeikos in emuna. And, it's intellectual laziness. And, it's too much information. And, it's the apikorus blogs. And, it's because of deep-seated emotional trauma and/or dysfunction. And, We need to teach hashkafa; Some people are doing it already.
"I fled". I do think that some of these neo-orthopraxim are intellectually dishonest. But this article did not help anyone to accurately define the problem, or reasonably find steps to resolve it. Its effect at this point might be only to create a new type of mind-reading farher/inquisition for shidduchim.
Regarding its one good though poorly phrased point: I think it is a good idea to reinforce the Emunos V'Deios of children and talmidim and talmidos in Yeshivos and seminaries. But the author misses the obvious premise here that throws the rest of the article out; It is an admission that segments of the Chinuch system have been doing a lousy job explaining Ikarei Emuna in a way that is intellectually meaningful BEFORE they discover the sheigetz-blogs and other sources of sofeik.
The article deserves an F Grade.
I would have let some big lard-fed Ukrainian ax murderer play with the scrawny Breslover kid's cute, long payos for a month or two before springing him from jail because the Chabad shluchim in Ukraine (who do real work spreading real Yiddishkeit) often suffer as a result of the Uman shenanigans.
ReplyDeleteThursday, April 14, 2011 5:05:00 AM
This is normal talk?A hassidisher yid talks like this? Gevald!
yehupitz:
ReplyDeleteExactly. Uncredibly condescending article.
Old yold
ReplyDeletecochem, how would you handle it?
Eight things you can do when your 90 year old holocaust survivor neighbor makes a scene at "Vehie Sheomdoh"
ReplyDelete1. Tell him to shut up because if he says another word he will halachically become an apikores and I'll have to ask a shayleh if my wine is still kosher
2.Tell him it's a lot better to be dead than alive.
3. G-d loves his people so He killed them.
4.Give him a copy of the new biography of the Satmerer Ruv and tell him Stephen Wise and the Zionists were responbsible.
5.Call in a Gateways tummler and tell him to have some words with the "greener."
6.Create a distraction by pretending you saw a piece of bread looking at you through the window.
7.Ignore the old man.
8.Put your head in the chrein and cry.
. Theology was never an important issue im Judaism. Note how few seforim were published on this topic compared to Shut, codes and chiddushim etc. And Chassiduth is not theology.
ReplyDeleteNote how few of these seforim enetered our cannon. Does any Yeshiva person study the Moreh.Are there chaburoth in Albo in Lakewood ?
Note that most of our theology seforim were written with the intention of being apologetics not lishma. LIke Saadya in response to karaites and rabbiner Hirsch in response to the Reform movement. Would let say Reb Yitzchok Elchonon sit down and write a sefer about emunos vedeeoth ?Our non Halchic corpus is made up of ethial and mystical literature not in catechisms.
Given that we ught to accept all Jews at face value. Observance is what counts. The issue of belief is in the court of Hashem not in our hands.He is bodek keliaoth velev.
We are not into inquisitions with Inquisitors as to the CORRECT BELIEF.As long as these beliefs are not made public or formally proclaimed, there is no need to pursue them of course unless one can get kavod and money from doing so.
Leave that to another religion.Our religion is based on Revealed Legislation and Mitzvath not on sal vation from belief. I think some of the new In reach guys have been watching Billy Graham too much.
Are we not told that we are a nation of zaddikim ?
Let the In reach people find anothe parnossah.
What a time we are in people who were born frum and many who studied in yeshivas for years are being examined by a cadre of BT's who became frum at the Kosel.
First 30 years ago the same guys told us that we do not know Halacha and we need to go to the books.
Then the same people started writing books telling frum mothers how to raise their kids and how to run their families Based on what ?their books, a few years at some school in jerusalem which probably ignored textual study and living as aJEw stressing right belief,, but most priobably based on their years of getting therapy which all secular jewish kids in the US receive.
Now the same chug tells that we do not believe .
The late Kluizenberger rebbe once stated "In der alte heim there were also baale teshuva, they sat in the back of the shul and prayed to hashem for forgiveness for their aveiros , today they sit in the mizrach and tell yereim and shelimim how to behave. Olam hafuch raiisi !!!
Its time we asserted ourselves , welcoming BT's but because they speak English better and went to Ivy League schools does not qualify them for anything in Judiasm unless they put in the time.
greenie son-
ReplyDeleteTell your father to start telling the truth . He put on tefillin daily in the camps.Many Yidden had Toms too.
He studied daf Yomi in the lageren.
He had shemura Matzo brought by the Hungarian rabbis .
He had a mehudardike sukkah.
The Germasn agreed to serve only Badatz Birkenau soup and Dachau bread(obviously Pas israel) to thsoe who requested so in advance. The Polish jews forgot and were given OU dairy bread. but the Ungaraischer got the Badaatz hashgocha.
Tell the old man to knock it off and stop feeling sorry for himself.
This article is a remarkable self indictment of the 'kiruv profession'.
ReplyDeleteThey have no idea what sfeikos in emuna are. Sending them to the "biggest scientists" was all they could do. The stylistic error is as telling as the awe of science as some sudden natural disaster that sweeps away people who should have stayed higher as good drones do.
One of the subjects worked in kiruv but was apparently not trained well enough. What is this training? lobotomy? The author "fled", he probably wants to imply that he has not had quite that much training.
Finally, there is the crown of all frum anxiety disorders: the procreational challenge. A new, unregulated variable appears in shidduchim market, how can law enforcement keep up.
Hirshele,
ReplyDeleteShein tzeit far frishe milch. Di ketzelech veinen.Di alte milch iz sheyn zoyer gevorn...
shtell di milch in frigheder, oder in freezer, vet es nit zoyer verren azoy shnell
ReplyDeleteober lekoved yud alef nissen un shabbes hagodel darf zein milch un shmteneh fun a peysechdike ku.
ReplyDeleteחסידישע אידן האבען ניט געגעסון מילכיגס גאנץ פסח, כידוע
ReplyDeleteDear Parents of Children who are in the Parshe:
ReplyDeleteI have recently come across a remarkable device that will help you identify those stealth "apikorsim" out there in the shidduch jungle. It looks like a regular digital camera and all you need to do is point it at the potential choson bocher and pretend you're taking his picture. Actually you are holding a highly sophisticated device which is reading p450 brain waves in this tachshits' brain. Anything above 159-0 khz per second is an indication of apikurshishe thoughts; anything below63khz is an indication of perverse liscivious thoughts.Parents-you now have an advanced scientific method of making sure that the baink kvetcher who comes calling does not have a secret agenda bec ause with modern brain wave science there are no secrets anymore.This product is available at all major Haredi superstores. If you purchase before Pesach you will recieve a free cartridge good for up to twenty brain scans.This device has already been used in an FDA sponsored study in Monsey with truly astounding results.Of course ,it has received glowing endorsements from many of our gedolim. So fret no more-the frum zapper has arrived!
tzig- have you read the article yet?
ReplyDeleteIm curious to hear your opinion on it.
haven't read it yet
ReplyDeleteIt makes no sense to have sefeikos in emuna because of the holocaust. Hashem never promised us a rose garden in Galus. Just look at the tochacha in Bechukosai and ki-sovo. I admit there is a nisayon but it's not logical.
ReplyDeleteThere can't be a contradiction between science and Torah because they are both true. It is we that don't have sufficient understanding of both.
I'm choishesh that the writer of this article is himself a far'doreber'ne
ReplyDeleteKayven D'Chotzif Kula Hai, Shma Minuh............
Le'Heve Zois Le'Moidaye
ReplyDeleteI'm setting up a Shidduch service that brings together far'dorebe'ne boys and far'dorebe'ne girls, but first you have to prove you're a Richtige Apikoirus, there will be a shtrenge far'her.
Fakers need not apply.
BelzFinAmool
ReplyDeleteone of the criterias should be, to know the Moreh Shallas without the answers