Don't the zeitungs-leit know that Bill hot sheyn bavornt az keiner zol nit hobn shlechte machshoves tzulib Hileriche...? Der Bill iz doch geven a shtikl a mayven af azelche inyonim...
Who is pretending to be Yossel Gutnick? Are you the same person who pretended to be Chaim Herzog? Tzig, please check the IP's and if it's the same person, give some consideration to banning Ad D'Lo Yoda'nicks
Had the same thought. I think its a tremendous lack of respect for the presidency that he's sitting off to the side on a small chair. although on the other hand it does show what u thought is uncharacteristic "anavva"
Someone needs to say that this is one of the greatest shtusim to have evolved in the Frum community in recent years. All of the Artscroll Biographies of Chareidi Gedolim published in the 80's and 90's had pictures of the rebbetzins and whole family photos, and even younger daughters of the gedolim. Now, through some secret process, we've gotten to the point where Mishpacha and even Binah, a women's magazine, cannot have photos of rebbetzin Wolbe in an article about rebbetzin Wolbe?! Who are the meshugoim l'oso davar who have such "shlchte machshavos" that have foisted this (Gerrer? satmar? I don't know.) practice and photo-shopping on all of us? The young proste "hot chanies" I could understand, meila. But we really need a "lo plug"??
I won't resort to the accusation of calling it censorship, which is an act of government coercion. People who pay to publish something are free to publish what they want, as long it's not ossur. But shtus it is.
There. I said it. This is another of those modneh practices (I won't dignify it with the word "minhag"), that I hope will gradually be eliminated as a few other practices have been eliminated over the last few years.
If you can't look at a picture of Madame Secy. of State without hirhurim you should immediately call your certified shadchan and get married. If you still can't look at her after the wedding please go immediately to your nearest psychiatric hospital for an evaluation.You'll be surprised to find that it's ok to be human despite what they taught you in yeshivah...
Their photoshop skills may be finely honed, but they can't tell their Admirals from their Generals. Admiral Mullen is not at the head of the table. Sitting at the head of the table (the President's usual seat) is Air Force Brigadier General Marshall Webb, Assistant Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command. While everyone else is focused on the screen we don't see, he's busy at his laptop transmitting orders. Admiral Mullen is in the tan shirt standing off General Webb's right shoulder. Full Navy Admirals, One Star Generals -- what's the difference -- as long as we have removed the pritzus (together with the illusion that the two women in the picture may have some authority).
If this strange practice was just strange, I would not have such a problem with it. IMO, it is harmful on a few levels. It is harmful to my daughter's who can't understand why a 10 year old girl has a blurred out face. What should I tell her? That there are people out there who find 10 year old girls to be enticing? It is harmful to young men who are raised in an environment where 10 year old girls and 75 year old rebitzens need to be obscured from view lest their images cause males to be nichshal, as if that is a normal chishash.
That said, I agree that there is no need to publish glamor shots of attractive women. The publishers' complaint that they have to make a "lo plug" is IMO a cop out. If it was me, I would use Justice Potter Stewart's famous standard.
This looks a lot like Commissar Yezhov getting "disappeared" from the famous picture of Stalin (google the names for the before and after pictures).
In looking at the Zeitung picture the guy in the blue shirt behind HRC has not been touched up very well. His entire left side looks "painted". Ditto the space in back where the other young lady used to be. If you guys are going to retouch history at least do it convincingly!
"It is harmful to young men who are raised in an environment where 10 year old girls and 75 year old rebitzens need to be obscured from view lest their images cause males to be nichshal, as if that is a normal chishash."
To be fair, Rivka Imeinu was nechmedes to Yitzchak when she was 3 (to say nothing of Yaakov and Zilpah; see Rashi) and Esther was to Achashveirosh when she was in her 80s. The issue is not so much age limited as much as it is to the female image in any manner whatsoever, regardless of the level of tznius!
ביטע טראכטן פאר'ן קאמענטירן, און שרייבן בכבוד'דיג ווי עס פאסט פאר אידן יראי השם yirei hashem also dont expose pictures of ladies next time Hirshel Bita Trachten before posting
In this case it is just the equivalent of hitting the old grogger by Zeresh's name instead of Homon's. I would have removed the picture to the left of the general as well.
Anon4:55 What's the difference between a picture of a fully clothed woman like Hilary and a woman similarly dressed in the street? Do you intend to wear blindfolds the next time you buy diapers?
All of you "yichud mongers" are missing the point. We have brought ourselves to a point where just the mere presence of a girl or woman is considered excessively provocative. She could be dressed in a completely tznuah manner and it makes no difference. The message this sends is that half of humanity is tamei, mecheti es harabim and deserves to be kept inside behind opaque windows. And the other half consists of raging oxen; unable to control their desires, ready to strike and gore at the least little "red flag".
BTW, when we get a woman as President (by the end of this decade, I predict) what will the photoshoppers at Zeitung and elsewhere do then? Will the US be without a leader according to them?
This mishugas is a chasidishe thing that has spread to the rest of the chareidi world who never want to feel out-frummed by anyone. Regardless of hilchos yichud, I hope we can we all agree that only a sick person has such desires for an eight year old girl? Rav Moshe (in a teshuva about dinai michitza) writes that it was the derech for women to come around collecting in shul during davening. Just being in the presence of a properly dressed woman was never considered a situation of "davar hamaivi lidai hirhur".
If they had a kolpick they'd be talking about federal programs for kollel yungeleit and getting pardons for erliche Yidn.Killing Bin laden is a bit like hisgarus beumos,no?Isn't it also questionable because the tzionim also get hanoeh bivchinas gromoh?We'll ask the achim Teitelbaum to pasken and enclose a lengthy supplement in their papers next to the Arizona wheat.
Chassidim in Radom wanted to amke their rav Reb Shmuel Mohiliver a Rebbe so reb Shmuel a Litvak seated his rebbitzen next to him during shalosh seudoth... that was that...
If they could not publish the picture as provided by the White House, they should not have published the picture at all. The picture was provided with clear guidance to that effect. They have broken faith with the White House by doing this.
the way the world has changed! in the old days the anti chasidim were the mosrim who got the chasidim arrested . nowadays its ex chabbader or even chabadsker as we all see from the kol koire of rabbunei crown heights .hayoitze midvureini , chasidus without shulchan urich aint worth nothing . the same applies to the yotzei williamsburg haliche le'arcues means nothing to them . hashulchon urich lo zuze mimkoimoh .and btw the eiriv rav is hot and brewing and "dwek" is just the facade of it and for this reason a 19th brucha was added to shmoine esra
The problem is not removing or covering up women, it how its done. If there was simply a black box covering women, or if they were heavily pixelated, that would be fine because it would be obvious and plain why this was done and that there were in fact women in the picture. If its done in such a way to make it seem that the women were never there, then the picture is a lie.
The real problem is that the fervor to follow a directive from a rabbi caused a violation of a direct commandment from G-d.
It isn't exactly a first: Laura Bush and even female Israeli ministers had been erased in pretty much the same way by other newspapers and magazines addressing an ultra-orthodox readership.
The internet will probably make this archaic and misogynic practice go away rather sooner than later.
They have broken faith with the White House by doing this.
So what? The White House has broken faith with the American people, so why should Der Tzaitung comply with the White House's request not to tamper with the picture? And that is all it was — a request, with no force of law behind it. There is no copyright on government publications, and people have every right to do with them whatever they like.
I would have been more impressed if they replaced Hilary with their Rebbe.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sad thing this is. Maybe Hilary's Sheitel is from Hindu hair
Isaac Babin
im impressed with their photoshop skills
ReplyDeleteImagine if the president were female , there woudlb e no one in charge according to these meshugoyim.
ReplyDeleteBrings to mind Mishpacha and Laura Bush in the WH kitchen.
ReplyDeleteSchneur, why are they meshugoyim?
ReplyDeleteDo you really think a chassidishe newspaper should publish photos of women?
Don't the zeitungs-leit know that Bill hot sheyn bavornt az keiner zol nit hobn shlechte machshoves tzulib Hileriche...? Der Bill iz doch geven a shtikl a mayven af azelche inyonim...
ReplyDeleteWho is pretending to be Yossel Gutnick? Are you the same person who pretended to be Chaim Herzog? Tzig, please check the IP's and if it's the same person, give some consideration to banning Ad D'Lo Yoda'nicks
ReplyDeleteIsaac Balbin
Interesting how the president is not seated at the head of the table.
ReplyDeleteHe looks a bit like a kid eavesdropping on an adult conversation.
hirshel tzig is missing
ReplyDeleteHad the same thought. I think its a tremendous lack of respect for the presidency that he's sitting off to the side on a small chair. although on the other hand it does show what u thought is uncharacteristic "anavva"
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to say that this is one of the greatest shtusim to have evolved in the Frum community in recent years. All of the Artscroll Biographies of Chareidi Gedolim published in the 80's and 90's had pictures of the rebbetzins and whole family photos, and even younger daughters of the gedolim. Now, through some secret process, we've gotten to the point where Mishpacha and even Binah, a women's magazine, cannot have photos of rebbetzin Wolbe in an article about rebbetzin Wolbe?! Who are the meshugoim l'oso davar who have such "shlchte machshavos" that have foisted this (Gerrer? satmar? I don't know.) practice and photo-shopping on all of us? The young proste "hot chanies" I could understand, meila. But we really need a "lo plug"??
ReplyDeleteI won't resort to the accusation of calling it censorship, which is an act of government coercion. People who pay to publish something are free to publish what they want, as long it's not ossur. But shtus it is.
There. I said it. This is another of those modneh practices (I won't dignify it with the word "minhag"), that I hope will gradually be eliminated as a few other practices have been eliminated over the last few years.
Bottom line, if the human subject in the photograph has a penis, the image is acceptable. No penis, unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteWhich practices have been eliminated?
ReplyDeleteIf you can't look at a picture of Madame Secy. of State without hirhurim you should immediately call your certified shadchan and get married. If you still can't look at her after the wedding please go immediately to your nearest psychiatric hospital for an evaluation.You'll be surprised to find that it's ok to be human despite what they taught you in yeshivah...
ReplyDeleteTheir photoshop skills may be finely honed, but they can't tell their Admirals from their Generals. Admiral Mullen is not at the head of the table. Sitting at the head of the table (the President's usual seat) is Air Force Brigadier General Marshall Webb, Assistant Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command. While everyone else is focused on the screen we don't see, he's busy at his laptop transmitting orders. Admiral Mullen is in the tan shirt standing off General Webb's right shoulder. Full Navy Admirals, One Star Generals -- what's the difference -- as long as we have removed the pritzus (together with the illusion that the two women in the picture may have some authority).
ReplyDeleteGer definitly has a hang up with these issues even worse than satmar
ReplyDeleteIf this strange practice was just strange, I would not have such a problem with it. IMO, it is harmful on a few levels. It is harmful to my daughter's who can't understand why a 10 year old girl has a blurred out face. What should I tell her? That there are people out there who find 10 year old girls to be enticing? It is harmful to young men who are raised in an environment where 10 year old girls and 75 year old rebitzens need to be obscured from view lest their images cause males to be nichshal, as if that is a normal chishash.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I agree that there is no need to publish glamor shots of attractive women. The publishers' complaint that they have to make a "lo plug" is IMO a cop out. If it was me, I would use Justice Potter Stewart's famous standard.
This looks a lot like Commissar Yezhov getting "disappeared" from the famous picture of Stalin (google the names for the before and after pictures).
ReplyDeleteIn looking at the Zeitung picture the guy in the blue shirt behind HRC has not been touched up very well. His entire left side looks "painted". Ditto the space in back where the other young lady used to be. If you guys are going to retouch history at least do it convincingly!
"It is harmful to young men who are raised in an environment where 10 year old girls and 75 year old rebitzens need to be obscured from view lest their images cause males to be nichshal, as if that is a normal chishash."
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Rivka Imeinu was nechmedes to Yitzchak when she was 3 (to say nothing of Yaakov and Zilpah; see Rashi) and Esther was to Achashveirosh when she was in her 80s. The issue is not so much age limited as much as it is to the female image in any manner whatsoever, regardless of the level of tznius!
ביטע טראכטן פאר'ן קאמענטירן, און שרייבן בכבוד'דיג ווי עס פאסט פאר אידן יראי השם
ReplyDeleteyirei hashem also dont expose pictures of ladies
next time Hirshel Bita Trachten before posting
If what you're saying is true why do the laws of yichud not apply to very young girls?An1:47
ReplyDeleteIn this case it is just the equivalent of hitting the old grogger by Zeresh's name instead of Homon's. I would have removed the picture to the left of the general as well.
ReplyDeleteAnon4:55 What's the difference between a picture of a fully clothed woman like Hilary and a woman similarly dressed in the street? Do you intend to wear blindfolds the next time you buy diapers?
ReplyDelete"If what you're saying is true why do the laws of yichud not apply to very young girls?"
ReplyDeleteThey apply to men with girls as young as age 3 according to some opinions and to women with boys over age 9.
Anon5:11 R. Moshe said under 5 was ok and in certain cases under 12 where there was a need.At least write the facts as they are.
ReplyDeleteLast 2 anons:
ReplyDeleteההלכה פשוטה -בלי חולק- בש"ע אה"ע סימן כב סי"א שמותר להתייחד רק עם תינוקת פחותה מבת ג' ועם תינוק פחות מבן ט'.
All of you "yichud mongers" are missing the point. We have brought ourselves to a point where just the mere presence of a girl or woman is considered excessively provocative. She could be dressed in a completely tznuah manner and it makes no difference. The message this sends is that half of humanity is tamei, mecheti es harabim and deserves to be kept inside behind opaque windows. And the other half consists of raging oxen; unable to control their desires, ready to strike and gore at the least little "red flag".
ReplyDeleteBTW, when we get a woman as President (by the end of this decade, I predict) what will the photoshoppers at Zeitung and elsewhere do then? Will the US be without a leader according to them?
This mishugas is a chasidishe thing that has spread to the rest of the chareidi world who never want to feel out-frummed by anyone. Regardless of hilchos yichud, I hope we can we all agree that only a sick person has such desires for an eight year old girl? Rav Moshe (in a teshuva about dinai michitza) writes that it was the derech for women to come around collecting in shul during davening. Just being in the presence of a properly dressed woman was never considered a situation of "davar hamaivi lidai hirhur".
ReplyDeleteby us chasidim we don't mind hillary as long as the men beside her have a big kolpik on their head ,no one has a kolpik in that tense room
ReplyDeleteIf they had a kolpick they'd be talking about federal programs for kollel yungeleit and getting pardons for erliche Yidn.Killing Bin laden is a bit like hisgarus beumos,no?Isn't it also questionable because the tzionim also get hanoeh bivchinas gromoh?We'll ask the achim Teitelbaum to pasken and enclose a lengthy supplement in their papers next to the Arizona wheat.
ReplyDeleteHow did these guys ever survive Golda Meir? I always considered Israelis to be more adult in these matters.
ReplyDeleteChabad are experts at photoshopping pictures.
ReplyDeleteSomeone's curse of ימח שמה
ReplyDeletewas מקויים.
Chassidim in Radom wanted to amke their rav Reb Shmuel Mohiliver a Rebbe so reb Shmuel a Litvak seated his rebbitzen next to him during shalosh seudoth... that was that...
ReplyDeleteSomeone came to take a pickture of the pnai menahem in the street...he said what is this...chabad...tolna-leaks...
ReplyDeleteThe only picture of the New Sqarer Rebbe with a lady is with Hillaery I always thought she was Squarer Rebitzen until I was told different.JK
ReplyDeleteIf they could not publish the picture as provided by the White House, they should not have published the picture at all. The picture was provided with clear guidance to that effect. They have broken faith with the White House by doing this.
ReplyDeletei'm at least happy that the known self hating Jew known with his site failedmessia.com has taken the information from........ Hershel Tzigs blog!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteFailed Messiah got the credit for this post all over the media. Take the credit you deserve
ReplyDeletethe way the world has changed! in the old days the anti chasidim were the mosrim who got the chasidim arrested . nowadays its ex chabbader or even chabadsker as we all see from the kol koire of rabbunei crown heights .hayoitze midvureini , chasidus without shulchan urich aint worth nothing . the same applies to the yotzei williamsburg haliche le'arcues means nothing to them . hashulchon urich lo zuze mimkoimoh .and btw the eiriv rav is hot and brewing and "dwek" is just the facade of it and for this reason a 19th brucha was added to shmoine esra
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not removing or covering up women, it how its done. If there was simply a black box covering women, or if they were heavily pixelated, that would be fine because it would be obvious and plain why this was done and that there were in fact women in the picture. If its done in such a way to make it seem that the women were never there, then the picture is a lie.
ReplyDeleteThe real problem is that the fervor to follow a directive from a rabbi caused a violation of a direct commandment from G-d.
It isn't exactly a first: Laura Bush and even female Israeli ministers had been erased in pretty much the same way by other newspapers and magazines addressing an ultra-orthodox readership.
ReplyDeleteThe internet will probably make this archaic and misogynic practice go away rather sooner than later.
They have broken faith with the White House by doing this.
ReplyDeleteSo what? The White House has broken faith with the American people, so why should Der Tzaitung comply with the White House's request not to tamper with the picture? And that is all it was — a request, with no force of law behind it. There is no copyright on government publications, and people have every right to do with them whatever they like.
Andreas
ReplyDeletethat's who we are, and our women love us for it!
@Anonymous
ReplyDeletethat's who we are, and our women love us for it!
Can "your women" confirm that? Or is it a violation of modesty rules if they speak for themselves?
they can confirm it.
ReplyDelete