A reader writes:
Today is the Yahrtzeit of The Previous Amshinover Rebbe, HaRav Yerachmiel Yehuda Meir Kalish zt"l, maternal grandfather of the Amshinover Rebbe of Yerushalayim. He was the son of Reb Shimon Sholom, affectionately known as "Reb Shime'le", who lived in Otwock, Poland prior to WWII, and was close to Bais HaRav. Reb Shimele escaped with other Yidden to Vilna, and then on to Kobe, Japan and Shanghai, China. He was witness to the stark disdain that the Vaad Hatzolah representatives had for Lubavitch and their Bochurim in Shanghai, and never forgot it. The Rebbe told Chassidim at that time that all questions be directed to Reb Shimele. His friendship continued with the Rabbeyim here in America until his passing on 19 Av 5715
He was a chashuve Yid. He was very close to Reb Shlomo Carlebach too.On a related note the current Amshnover rebbe in Jslm has asisted a young man by the name of Zalmanov of Lubavitch background to become to Upoler rebbe his grandfather before the war.
ReplyDeleteThe upoler rebbe was a branch of vorka Amshinov.
Kurenitzer,
ReplyDeleteYou are reffering to Shraga Feivish Zalmanov, grandson of the famous Chosid Reb Shmuel Zalmanov. He was a yasom at a very young age, and he was brought up in the Amshinover Rebbe's home.
Chaim are you sure he was a Yosem, and not a ben Gorush?
ReplyDeleteI think he did learn in Tomchei Tmimim.
What's this lie about Shanghai? Come again?
ReplyDeleteI seem to recall reading about him a little in R' Sholom Kowalsky's book "From my zaidy's house." (If I'm not confusing him with someone else) He was an unusual man.
ReplyDeleteBTW, the book is very interesting; it gives you a peek into the life of a boy growing up in Poland (Otwock) between the wars, and his subsequent life as a Rabbi in America & Israel.
Some fascinating and amazing stories there about the Rebbe's knowledge in Torah, as well as his Yiras Shomayim whilst studying in Berlin.
ReplyDeleteHave there been any other cases of men from Lubavitch families becoming admorim ? Chagas not chabad?
ReplyDeleteHow many men from Lubavitch families do you know that became Bobover, Gerer, Satmer, etc. Chassidim?
ReplyDeleteGezhe,
ReplyDeleteMore than you might think
Nu, I could think of worse things than becoming a Chossid of another Rebbe.
ReplyDeleteIt's actually interesting, I've met former Lubavitchers in many places in the chassidishe velt... Boyan, Spinka, Satmar, Skver, Bobov, Toldos Aharon, Breslov - even litvishe, and MO too (off the top of my head).
ReplyDeleteand I've met former Breslover, Toldos Aroner, Spinker, Bobover, Satmarer, Gerrer, Skverrer, Stoliner in Lubavitch!
ReplyDeleteI have never met or heard about a Gheza Lubavitcher joining other Chassidic groups.
ReplyDeletePerhaps in the Yishuv hayoshen in Jslm , because of the special nature of the community.
The only person I can think of in recent years is Reb Sholom Ber Schneersohn who attended the Bobover's tisch on a fairly regualr basis.
His brother inlaw also became a Bobover but was not gheza.
Perhaps we could have an example of a Lubavitcher becoming a Gerer or satmarer ?
Sorry for the confusion, I never meant that they were gezhe families - I was responding to the post by "gezhe."
ReplyDeleteavremel, you know what youre full of...
ReplyDeleteI don't personally know Lubavitchers who became Gerer - but I did see a Gerer in Meron on Rosh Hashana with a Tehilas Hashem Siddur.
ReplyDeleteI know a former Lubavitcher turned Satmerer... very extreme guy.
Mitzvos, right Eli?
ReplyDeleteWho is S.B. Schneersohn brother-in-law? I happen to know S.B.S. fairly well and even though you are right that he attened the Bobovers tisch, I still would not say that he left Lubavitch to become Bobov. He hasnt change his views on Lubavitch from the past 40 years or so.
ReplyDeleteWould you say Elya Chaim left Lub. to become a Bobover, for it is well known that he prepared the Divrei Torah for R. Shlome.
I am sure there are former Lubavitcher in all sorts of Charedi movements and in the MO community. But these are all ex BT's part of the revolving door syndrome which was a serious issue in Lubavitz kiruv in the past.
ReplyDeleteBut again I have never heard of a gezha Lubavitcher turning to another Chasidic group. although some have turned to other rebbe's for guidance Eg Gutnick to the Pnai menachem of Gur and others and rabbi Heller particpating in the Tischen of Rav hershele Spinker in Williamsburg.
Prior to WW2 many people of Lubavitcher families became part of the Yeshiva world but in those days jewish "political"parties as i call them did not exist as such.
Kurenitzer,Rabbi Heller is far from gezhe, he is in fact of Hungarian descent, from Lugano,Switzerland, he is a descendant of the chasam sofer I believe.He became a Lubavitcher, after his marriage while learning in Brisk, by R'Dovid Sloveichik.His late wife was also hungarian from Vienna,I believe
ReplyDeletehe never said he was gezha
ReplyDeleteI am fully aware of his (Rabbi Heller's) background. Were he Gezha , I doubt he would find comfort at the Tischen of Rav Hershele Spinker. Reb Hershele was derech agav a great zaddik with no "airs" a real oved Hashem.
ReplyDeleteThe old rav of Winnepeg rav Yeshaye Hurvitz was a Chabad chasid and a desc. of the family of the Zemach Zedek. His sons at least one - became a chashuve Breslover chasid.
By the way Reb Yidele Hurvitz the great zaddik who lies in the London feld also used the Tehillas Hashem siddur. One need not be a Lubavitcher to use that siddur. See one of his bigraphies the cover picture hs him davining from a Chabad siddur. Farfos Nit ?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if that's the same as a Gerer with a Chabad machzor - but who knows, maybe that was the only machzor he could find (but it seemed that it was his personal machzor).
ReplyDeleteI know that the Mann family was a Chabad family that has at least one or two branches that became Breslovers. I remember seeing on "another" blog that even Rav Kenig in Zefat seems to have some Chabad connection in his past, and doesn't another Breslover leader, R' Dorfman, have Chabad in his lineage?
I also saw that R' Avrohom Kochav-Lev (Decendent of R' Nosson from Breslov) used to chazer the Maamer among the Chanad chassidim in Krementchug when he was a rav there.
And R' Hershele Spinker was indeed a ver special man
ReplyDeleteAnd Kurenitzer does have a valid point. Although I was not only referring to baalei teshuva who moved on to other kreizen from Chabad -- I so admit that the individuals that I had in mind were not typical Lubavitchers from typical Lubavitcher families... mostly they came from non-Chabad backrounds.
ReplyDeleteR. Y. Mundshein writes that the reason why the Bais Yisroel davened from a Sidur Im Da'ach is becuase at the time it was the only siddur that has the Kavonos by Hashem;s name, and nothing to do with the ALter Rebbes nusach.
ReplyDeleteI also dont think that just because a Lubavitcher goes to ask advice from a different Rebbe, that means that he left Lubavitch's court. The same would apply, in going to another Rebbe's tisch, if the individual gets some spiritual pleasure, then why not?
The Kenigs are peylishe , the old rav Reb Gdalye and his brothers studied in Teyras Emes in Jslm. I think his brother is a Lubavitcher but the antecedents of the family are some Polish chassiduth.
ReplyDeleteR' Gedalya Kenig's father was a Koznitzer chossid.
ReplyDeleteHowever, R' Gedalya himself was a Chabad Chossid, until he met and became a chossid of R' Avrohom Sternhartz (Kochav-Lev).
There are other family members who are still in Chabad today.
"Reb Sholom Ber Schneersohn who attended the Bobover's tisch on a fairly regualr basis.
ReplyDeleteHis brother inlaw also became a Bobover but was not gheza."
Huh? R SB Schneerson's brother in law? Which one? Certainly not any of the Chitriks!
Previous Amshinover Rebbe was rav itzchok kalish in boro park
ReplyDeleteRav Yerachmiel Yehuda Meir Kalish, the Amshinover Rebbe. Born in Peshischa, he learned with his grandfather, Rav Menachem, who was the grandson of the first Amshinover Rebbe, Rav Yaakov David. When Rav Mencahem passed away in 1918, one of his sons, Rav Yosef, became the Rebbe of Amshinov, and the other son, Rav Shimon Shalom – Rav Meir’s father – became Rebbe in Otvotzk. Rav Shimon was a major driving force behind the exodus of thousands of bachurim in Mir, Kletzk, Radin, Novardak, and other yeshivos to Japan and Shanghai at the outbreak of World War II. By the time Shanghai came under Japanese control, it held 26,000 Jews. After the war, Rav Shimon immigrated to America. Upon his petira in 1954, Rav Meir accompanied the aron to Teveria in Eretz Yisrael. He later moved to Tel Aviv, and then to the Bayit Vegan section of Yerushalayim. Rav Meir was noted for his genius in Torah, as well as his warmth and sensitivity to all Jews. His grandson, Rav Yaakov Aryeh Milikowski, succeeded him as the Amshinover Rebbe.(1901-1976
ReplyDeleteAnonymous
ReplyDeleteReb SB's brother-in-law was Reb EC Carlebach.
Why does an Amshinover list (in his bio) an interest in seretim im Debby?
ReplyDelete