Mayer, a CT blogger, upon being asked if there was indeed a curfew imposed on girls in Williamsburg, writes:
THAT IS A FACT.Viyamsburg has a great challenge today. Although people look at Crown Heights or Flatbush as communities with the "frumkeit challenged," there are actually no groups free of pain & suffering.There are problems currently in Williamsburgh with teen-pregnancy, lack of interest in Yiddishkeit, and general infiltration of secular ideas. the Hungarian solution, as usual, is to start a ban. It is now forbidden for a girl to be outside after 9PM unless accompanied by a parent. I wish them & all yidden success in preventing the youth of today from slipping out of the fold, but I do not know if this is a good method... (I also take no pleasure in this reality)
Mayer continues:
There were a couple meetings where they determined this. Right now it is a "strongly advised recommendation to parents." Official enforcement has not yet begun.
hey, now that the Taliban are out of a job, maybe they can be exported to Willy and keep the peace.
ReplyDeleteChaim,
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that so many people have the same stupid comment? This is the third time that those sentiments were posted on this blog in one week.
I sw the picture of the Taliban, so...
ReplyDeleteAt least they address their problems. In CH people just shrug and say "L'chaim."
ReplyDeletethat's L'chaim, L'chaim
ReplyDeleteRepression is hardly a solution in the modern age.
ReplyDeleteSorry, if this is indeed true, this will not solve the problem. All that will happen is that they find alternative methods.
As the used to say... "Tehillim un treren"
I think Mayer made a small mistake - from what I've heard the cerfew is 10 PM (not 9)
ReplyDeletePerhaps the charedi groups need to borrow a page from the MO community.
ReplyDeleteWhile there are drop outs in this community too, the MO community has developed devices and the neans in which people can function as frum Jews in an open society with a free market of ideas , that is without coercion and bans.
Kurenitzer,
ReplyDeleteDo you think that's likely?
And doesn't that come with its own problems?
I don't agree with curfews either, but the problem is that the younger generation is unhappy. If they are not given an ahava for and a more meaningful Yiddishkeit, they will look for fulfillment elsewhere.
Curfews attempt to address a symptom, better chinuch will address the source.
I think the MO community has very little to offer as far as getting the youth to stay committed. Teaching minimum Judaism never worked for anybody, just look at the MO community in Israel.
ReplyDeletei don't understand the fuss...this is not coersion or repression. the curfew is more of an educational tool, societal guidance for young adults. Heshy, i don't mean to get personal but you got little boys and maybe can't relate, i've got little girls and can extrapolate the sence of having older ones within a homogenous society. whats the sweat? another line of argument perhaps is the restriction of secular media to young adults in the haimish world, is that education or is that censorship and repression?
ReplyDeletehey that is a great idea I wish all jewish children had a bedtime,
ReplyDeletehey I wish half the men in my shul had a bed time I would have no problem with a minyan, and when the parent is with the child maybe they will talk to the child and find out what is going on in the childs life so they do not become a statistic,any way boys how about everyone here loging off and saying hello to your children.
Bedtime is good if it's imposed by the head of household, not the local goons, it conjures up memoris of a time most people would like to forget, like, oh, THE WARSAW GHETTO?
ReplyDeleteThe point is not that a curfew is the problem.
ReplyDeleteThe point is, that it does not solve anything. Do you really think that by implementing a curfew for teen-age girls to be outside alone, that this will improve their emotional situation?
This is not a method for success in the year 2005.
They will just find other ways to find trouble, and this definitely will not improve their sense of self-worth.
Parents definitely need to be involved in their daughters life, and should be conscious of where they are and what their doing - but simply establishing a community wide curfew directed only at adolescent girls will not solve the problems.
Simplistic answers were fine in the shtetel, they don't work today.
Guys,
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way:
If there was a community-wide Curfew for adolescents here in Crown Heights, I would be thrilled!
Have you any idea what goes on here?!? There is no shame - even in front of 770!!
I woke up early one morning and went to my car in the alley to find that I was blocked in by a car with two Jewish adolescents (minus some clothing) using their backseat for recreational purposes. They took off soon-enough, but this is hardly why I wanted to live here.
I say let's have the curfew here!!!
maybe they should all wear veils or, better yet, BURKAS!
ReplyDeletethat way nobody will want to bother them.
Crownheightser
ReplyDeletewhy not call the guys from Williamsburg?
You know what - I bet that now that they have a curfew there, they're all going to come and show up here in my alley for their liaisons.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is a good thing - they can meet all of our adolescents and we will have more unity! Truly Moshiachdik.
yeah, make it one biiiiiig happy family, like in Appalachia:)
ReplyDeleteCrown Heightser, I'm sorry for my last comment -- I don't mean to make fun of the situation.
ReplyDeleteBut the problems in Crown Heights are a little different, and I wonder if the individuals you met under those circumstances were locals, or foreigners (France, Israel, etc).
I think that CH has so many unsupervised individuals from all walks of life, that it creates one heck of a mess.
But there will never be a curfew on your block, so don't get your hopes up.
ok, maybe somebody can explain this:
ReplyDeletethru the "crazy" sixties & seventy's culture degenrated to very low levels, were our youth affected in this way (generally speaking)
It simply took longer to filter down to us, that's all. So we are 30 years behind, that's all.
ReplyDeleteAlso, we are BH much bigger now, and so more people will fall through the cracks.
i beg to differ.
ReplyDeletei think it's the toties & momies.
they are into things (vedios movies etc) that their parents were not.
crown heightzer, you r right. problems require both a macro and micro fix.... in willaimsburg they are applying a macro fix, setting up a dam against a possible torrential problem in the mean time, and the micro fix or attempt will follow by concerned citicens and parents. IN Crown heights there is no attempt at a macro fix...who is not addressing a problem?
ReplyDeleteoh come on boys...
ReplyDeletethis is the problem! there is a grey area of what is the family and what is the job of the greater family, and it does not matter if you live in Yonkers!
the challenge to our children is greater then anything that ever came across history to any Jewish Child in the history of our people.
anything that addresses this problem would be good. and you all should know that this line of thinking is taking place in all of these sections of ny (except Yonkers).
there is nothing wrong with taking on the problems the worst thing is this put your head in the sand idea that if it is not my kids who cares that makes me head to the bathroom to lose my cholent!!!
hey if it gets families to deal with life pass me my white socks and fur hat! bravo boys!!!
the first place to deal with drugs was not Crown Height,boro park or flatbush it was Willie burg!!
Williamsburg has close to fifty thousand jews, so think about that before you cooompare to puny Crown Heights.
ReplyDeleteI live in Willy and have not heard of any curfew, though it could be that someone has such an idea.
Obviously some problems exist everywhere, but nothing close to other neighborhoods.In Willy, very, very few families have television sets, and even those that have, hide them from the kids.In addition the average girl and boy can expect to be engaged by 18 and married by 19, few rational kids or parents are going to play with their marriage chances.In other communities, marriage is put off so long that the kids, who are no longer kids, do what they want.
Instead of looking or hearing about the very few cases of teen pregnancies etc look at the unbelievable 'children factories' that churn out so many thousands of kids(really, Willy is a children production factory!)With very few bad apples!
Believe me, if Crown Heights had anywhere close to the success of kids chinuch that Willy has, you'd be very, very happy
oh my. listen the problem with drugs was first in Willy burg,
ReplyDeleteI think children should get married young. Now Willy burg has to deal with hippys and such. Crown hts has lots of problems but they are in open for all to see.
there are too many children that are hurt in all too many places.
I dont think that Willy burg can deal with all of its problems and there are alot of very fine people there.
the whole idea of a curfew I feel is a fine one and nothing to be ashamed of!
http://www.hashkafah.com/lofiversion/index.php/t10039-0.html
ReplyDeleteThe link above may you y'all more insight into this matter. It seesm from here that there are chilukei deyos about if the actually is a cerfew, but the conversations are interesting...
PLEASE TRY TO SPELL CORRECTLY - IT MAKES LIFE MUCH EASIER
ReplyDeleteBut the banter at that site was a bit enlightening
ReplyDeleteSorry about the spelling, I'll try to be more careful in the future
ReplyDeleteMore curfew "rayd"
ReplyDeletehttp://chaptzem.blogspot.com/2005/05/williamsburg-imposes-night-time-curfew.html
Anon,
ReplyDeleteIf your going to post links that are in poor taste, at least use your name.