Photo credit: Consultmi.com/bobov
Is this what were supposed to believe is the continuation of Sanz and the Divrei Chaim zt"l?!
Are people so dense as to believe that that's all it takes?
How much time does the man spend in front of the mirror?
Believe me it's nothing personal against the man, I just can't take it anymore.
Those days are long gone, my friends. Face the new reality. Hey, nobody's complaining, they like him just the way he is, so why worry for them?
ReplyDeleteRabbosai . This blog against Bobov etc is in the bechina of "elbonah shel Torah" !
ReplyDeleteI can not believe that people who call themselves Chassidim could write such litzonus against the role of a chagas rebbe as a Zaddik uplifting his followers.
Perhaps this too is Ahavas Israel ?
What was the point of this post on your otherwise excellent blog? May I remind you that it is the 9 Days now? Are we Creedmoorer Chassidim who walk in the way of Kamtza and Bar Kamtza or are we Chassidei Chabad who WANT MOSHIACH NOW and act accordingly?
ReplyDeleteKurenitzer
ReplyDelete1) the post was not "against Bobov" but rather to pose the question: What has become of it? no politics were mentioned.
2) Do you believe that Chagas does not demand anything of their Rebbes but shiny Bekitshes and $5000 shtreimlach?
I am pained to write this , but it was not Chaside Chagas who started using pictures of their leader as a means of spreading their "faith". That credit goes to another group. The other groups started using pictures only in the last 15 years.What did LNS do if not supply photos of the rebbe to American newspapers. what s the point of the numerous photo albums of the rebbe ??
ReplyDeleteNow you turn around and attack Bobov or Chagas for Chitzoniuth !A rebbe has the right if not obligation to have nice shtreimel and a malchusdike Bekishe. He is as you would say a Nasi.By the way would you have the CHUTZPAH to attack the father of the man in the phot who also was makpid on Levush in the bechina of Malchus ???
It is not for you to decide if the man in the picture Rav BZH is limited to chitzoniuth maybe yes , maybe not.I certainly do not know.
In another chassiduth ,the 6th leader of that movement was also makpid to dress extremely well with beautiful suits (surdut) and overcoats and a pocket watch all that said Malchus which he was.
My suggestion is forget about the blog. I know what you meant to say , but do not do it by attacking a rebbe's levush. Please !
a final word Bobovhas hundreds of bachurim learning a fine kolel headed by yedidi rav Goldberger, chedorim , the BM in Williamsburg has 70 yungeleit kukam ahuvim vechuili.
I know there is strife there but its a machlokes leshem shomayaim.
howdy
ReplyDeletemy dear k
how right you are,I am so proud of you. I do not know if this whole thing is Leshem Shomayaim. I hate any sort of fight. I only see the pain and cost of it. The prior Bobov Rebbe was a real leader and I am only sorry we do not have more like him true sholom-mackers.
Kurenitzer, you hit the nail on the head.
ReplyDeleteHT, why are you revising the Bobov issue now?
I have been saying for many years now that the silliness of the Chabad-Chagas distinction has long since run it's course. In my opinion, there is no more "Chagas" Chassidus today than "Chabad."
I see I touched a nerve with you.
ReplyDelete1) I did not criticize the taking of pictures, so don't tell me that Chabad was first in publicizing its Rebbe's picture.
2) Bobov has always been the butt of jokes and jibes about the important thing being that the peyos are perfect as well as the rest of the Levush. His father Reb Shlomo was like a father to his people after WW2, literally raising them and marrying them off. One of the things he did was take care of his appearance. It may or may not have been the most importanT thing in his life, but i doubt it. With his son it seems to be the only thing that matters. He does not have his father's credentials as an old world Rebbe and cannot claim to be following in his footsteps just by dressing the part.
3) Why is every opinion dictated by whom you know in the group? I wasn't discussing the kolel yungeleit, just him. Besides, most of them left him for his nephew, but I digress.
Chabakuk
ReplyDeleteI just had to say something, you know how it is.
kurnitz,
ReplyDeleteit appears that your glasses are sparkly clean today. Heshy, what problem do you have that the bobovers have a handsome rebbe. Hashem made him that way. He dresses regal..whats wrong with that? but there are fair questions to ask and for the bobovers and others to grapple with; I was by the rebbe's tisch yesterday for ten minutes and felt very ancy. I kept wondering if the rebbe would take this opportunty to demand something big from the chassidim as they were enthralled to get a shtikel kugel and a air handshake. it wasn't forthcoming.. i couldn't take it because the only thing practical from such a potentially electifying moment was just another peice of kugel. Heshy , the kugel is starting to sizzle....
howdy
ReplyDeletemy dear brother in eating kugel N
to some people this is where they are, It is a sorry thing but you and I are on a lower level and can not get our connection to the Boss thru kugel. I do think K is right in this case and how lucky we all are to have his wisdom to help us thru these dark days of Golus.
Friends. I know what the purpose of the blog was :to bemoan the fact taht much chassiduth has become just a bekishe shtreimel and chitzoniuth. I am with you there.
ReplyDeleteIt is however in poor taste to attack a rebbe personally in a "ad hominum" manner who by the way has kept the majority of Bobover under his kehilla (REb Mordechai Dovid Ungar has a smaller but perhaps shenerer group).
In Europe ,Rebbes dressed well too and in mny groups of Chagas the chassidm were no more spiritual than they are today.Thats the derech of Zaddik be'emunaso YECHAYE.
Perhaps that was another major factor in the distinction between chabad and Peylishe chassiduth.
My criticism is not in the point you wish to make but in the manner you do it. Lets not attack important rebbes here on the basis of their appearence. If Rav BZH has done things controversial or said things , lets discuss that . Lets talk hashkofa, etc, but not a person's appearence. The office of rebbe in all major groups except for Ger demands this dress. By the way I know more than a little about the history of Zandz, and I am certian the Divre Chaimalthough not into chitzoniuth also dressed the "part" .Other Zadzer eyniklech like the gaon hador the late Kluizenberger also used technicolor robes. So do the the Zmigroder, Satmarer rebbe, Vishnitzer, Seret, and all Zandzer eyniklech. Its part of the role.
The dynastym most friendly to Lubavitch over the years, -Rizhin took this chitzoniuth to new heights in many ways too. And the Zandzer indeed opposed them, but never the less he too dressed like a rebbe .
Lets re write your blog and talk about the false role of chitzoniuth in contemporary chassiduth.(I will add that this includes Chabad too where a certain hat and Tallith etc are important to defining one's chassiduth).
N and Howdy
ReplyDeletedo not make this a personal attack on Kurenitzer. stick to the issue at hand.
howdy
ReplyDeleteheshy K is right! how about a post about Bibi. and yes we do miss you.
heshy,
ReplyDeletei'm shocked at you. how can you censor me and omit my post. Maybe you don't know that 'kudos' is a compliment (that i made to Kurenitzer). you are off the wall with this story (many stories) and certainly intelectually bankrupt if you feel the need block my posts..I dare you to do tchuva and post this....
howdy
ReplyDeleteN
you go girl.
oh my get of it. This is heshy's blog and give him the right to stop what ever he wants to. All great americans stop freedom of speech and Heshy is a great american and my frend. so heshy feel free to delete any thing you want to.
Ahh, HT is just jealous of Tzemach Atlas. It's a thrill to start your own town just so you can be the sherrif.
ReplyDeletewoof woof
ReplyDeleteHT,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there was any substance in this thread, but perhaps you can run an update on the Bobov dispute?
From what I hear it seems that R' B"Z has won the rights to all property, but has to pay money (50% of value of dispted property) to R' M"D.
R' M"D seems to have continued to work hard (as they say, "Nothing has changed, biz yetz hut B"Z geshpeilt mit di payos, un M"D hut g'arbet... un yetzt iz vayter azoi"). R' M"D has taken all the good Rabbeim and administators from the mosdos, he bought the former Armon Terrace and is getting ready to start mosdos for Elul Zman. R" B"Z in a panic move tried to offer more money to the departing educators, but he was turned down. He has the buildings, but lost the neshoma.
If you heard about the asifa that was attended by gedolei harobonim, you may have also heard that B"Z got caught acting very childish by refusing to shake hads with M"D... a story of it's own... not to mention his refusal to give a Toronto BT a beketche for his chasaneh (no prob, R' M"D gave him one instead).
Yechi Hamelech...
Mayr'l
ReplyDeleteyou just gave the best update possible!
hirshil tzig you should be ashamed of yourself,
ReplyDeleteThe bobover rebbe is a leader to thusands of yidden how can you speak like that, please be curful what you say
lajew