Shturem brings a series of articles in "Kerem HaChassidus" by Reb Eli Chaim Carlebach z"l.
Part I
Part II
An interesting article with interesting conclusions on his part, including the quote that the time of the Rebbe's campaign LeAlter LeTshuveh etc. was a Sha'as Pekidoh, but because it was an auspicious time for Geulah it also lead to the annihilation of European Jewry. He "attributes" the FR's campaign to the fact that he was the grandson of both the Chernobler Maggid and the AR, who were promised by the Mezritcher Maggid that Moshiach would be one of their desendants. All in all a very fascinating piece.
(Eli Chayim is seen at the top left corner, holding on to Reb Chaim Nachman Kowalski)
r-l; Reb Eli Yachel Simpson, Reb Hendel Liberman-Futerfas, Teleshevsky, the Rebbe.
"He "attributes" the FR's campaign to the fact that he was the grandson of both the Chernobler Maggid and the AR, who were "promised" by the Mezritcher Maggid that Moshiach would be one of their desendants. All in all a very fascinating piece."
ReplyDeleteI doubt the AR "promised". Hirshel, you realize that that, is not going to happen anymore.
Tzibaleh
ReplyDeletewhy do you doubt he "promised"? and why will that not happen anymore?
HT
ReplyDeleteI think the problem that RECC had with Lubavitch later was that he thought he understood better than anyone else, and he thought he understood what a "Rebbe" is. In Bobov he takeh understood, hence him being more comfortable there.
HT,
ReplyDeleteI think the esteemed Tzibaleh was pointing out how since it is highly improbable for such a decendant to indeed be Moshiach any more, it is more likly to have been a blessing than a promise.
Avremel,
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how everyone needs to come up with a rationale for ECC. maybe he just liked bobov better - how the heck do you know his motives?
Zezmir
ReplyDeleteI know the heck because usually, unless there's an actual conflict or fallout, which I don't think happened here, there usually is no reason for a grown man to leave a movement that made him into the man he became. The fact that he went to Bobov of all places, doesn't help either. Then again, his brother-in-law RSBS also went to Bobov, although not as an official Chossid, so maybe it's a family issue.
The honorable Zezmir, Thanks for elaborating on my comment. ברוך שכיוונת In jewish history one can find many a time that a בקשה or תפילה was not fulfilled.
ReplyDeleteTzib and Zez,
ReplyDeleteThe maggid said it would be that way, he didn't pray for it. Read the part where the AR came to choose the Chosson for his son's daughter (The Cherkasser for the MR's daughter.)
The discussion passt nisht for Chasidishe Yungeleit. I seem to remember the Nefesh HaChayim saying words like that.
ReplyDeleteFunny how anybody who leaves Lubavitch is branded.......
ReplyDeleteLooking at Lubavitch today,I'm pretty certain that any of the ehrlicheh chasidim of old would have left if they knew what kind of Circus Tent it would turn into.
Maybe R'Eli Chaim picked that up already then.
HT,
ReplyDeleteOk buddy... So, living today who is this einikel of both?
Don't make this 'promise' that big a deal.
Actually, since Moshiach dosent seem to need to be from the living anymore, maybe the Previous Rebbe IS moshiach after all! OK, now I get you...
VML
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you must have something to say other than when topics like these are discussed, no? so why don't we hear at other times?
zezmir said...
ReplyDeleteHT,
Ok buddy... So, living today who is this einikel of both?
i would say who not
bobov rebbi
satmar rebbi
tweski-milwalki
current tchabin rosh yeshaiva
to name a few better known ones
eli
ReplyDeleteCome to think of it, he does mention there that he heard it from the Bobover Rebbe, so......
maybe he missed the point of the story:)
The story is mentioned elsewhere as well.
fill me in please
ReplyDeletewhat point did he miss
Don't you get it? the BR was telling him that he's the real Moshiach!
ReplyDeleteCarlebach totaly missed it!
you ever heard of a chosid and misnagid walking down the street
ReplyDeletethe chosid bumps into a woman and exclaims oy! i just bumped into a tree
the misnagid bumps into a tree and exclaims gavald i just bumped into a woman
let me guess, I bumped into the tree here?
ReplyDeletethat is not what i said just that the the BR was not thinking that he is moshiach
ReplyDeleteit happens to the best of us you know, especially with a story of the Maggid to back it up...
ReplyDeleteif you are thinking about women
ReplyDeletebut if you think as reb levi yitzock of bardichiv did about to to change places with avrhom auvini
what will hashem have from it you think diffrently
come on tzigaleh, even the famous פין יעצט אן וען עס וועט זיין א ענין צווישין חסידים אין מתנגדים וועט זיין יד חסידים על העלינה was not totally מקוים
ReplyDeleteI don't know about that not being Mekuyem, but until Moshiach comes we won't know if that promise isn't going to materialize.
ReplyDeleteanother form of very scary meshichisim.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10313618/site/newsweek/
I can't understand why no one states that these articles were originally published years ago in Kerem Chassidus the fine periodical that Carlebach edited.
ReplyDeleteThey were clearly written for a non Chabad audience.
Kurenitzer
ReplyDeleteit says so in the original post; "Shturem brings a series of articles in "Kerem HaChassidus" by Reb Eli Chaim Carlebach z"l."
but it's nice to have you stop by every once in a while......