I too am getting somewhat tired of this whole back and forth "Snag-Lubab-Misnaged-Cholent" talk, so let's try and maintain some level of sanity in this thread.
A Sheilas Tam;
Why is it that Davka Chassidim, who accept that צמצום איז שלא כפשוטו and believe in Hashgochoh Protis like never before, and 'לית אתר פנוי מיני is stressed like never before, They believe that a Yid has to be דבוק אין א צדיק and without him איז ער נישט פארזיכערט אין גארניט
Why do Chassidim believe That the Eibershter needs כביכול the "help" of Tzaddikim in order to be Mashpia Gashmiyus to the lower realms?
[Only comments צו דער זאך will be accepted, and try to keep your Sefeikos in Emunah and obsessions with X-tianity to yourselves. I would also appreciate you choosing a name, so that the conversation can flow without scratching your head trying to figure out which anonymous said what.]
first I will delete your comment, then I'll answer you.
ReplyDeleteWhich "smart" seforim should I have read other than Chassidishe? Reb Chatzkel's shmuessen?
so G-d can be found in cholent as well?
ReplyDeleteIn case you don't know the picture.
ReplyDeleteThis is a picture of the Munkacher Rebbe's son in law Rebbe Baruch Rabinowitz the father of the present Munkacher Rebbe in Boro Park.
This Picture was taken in Munkatch befoer the war by Roman Vishniac.
Also seen are members of the Rabbinical Court during a Grand 'farher' [=test] of the Yesihva talmidim.
yes, Yosef we knew that. What about a comment on the question at hand?
ReplyDeleteדו פרעגסט גוט From the 1 side many a story of the B"sht illustrate how davka a פשוטע יוד with his תמימות reaches his father in heaven. from the other side there is the ענין of הדבק בתלמידי חכמים
ReplyDeletewhich btw is another ענין that chassidism was not מחדש.
tzibaleh that is
ReplyDeleteTzibaleh
ReplyDeleteאפשר האסטו א שטיקל תירוץ?
G-d can be found in Cholent if it's eaten l'sheym shomayim. That is something that is totally lost in today's day and age, yet people convince themselves that by saying Lekoovid Shabbos Koydesh! they're somehow elevating the food....
ReplyDeleteהירשל זיי נישט ברוגז
ReplyDeleteI love the pictures but this topic is very boring to me.
As a non lub. chasid I never hear the word 'misnaged' in any sort of conversation among my fellow chasidim. I think this issue as of today is purely a chabad obsesion. Most Chasidim no matter how devout never see themselves as being more "in" with Hashem.
To me Chasidus is a style a derech a particular approach to avoidas hashem. But if being a Novhardoker does it for you, G-d bless you!
Yosef
Yosef
ReplyDeletefrom the little I've seen you write I believe you have more to say, but I'll respect you for not saying either.
While on the sunject of Novardik, I think that Derech is also no longer popular, anybody want to guess why?
These days, צום זאך is a much more common usage than צו דער זאך...
ReplyDeleteIn any event, it is precisely because our G-d is so בלי גבול, utterly unpalpable, that He may be found even down here. On this kind of a level, any attempt at real "connection" is not worth much for anyone who begins to understand what kind of יש (Him) and אין (us) we are dealing with; one can "just give up" and go for a Rebbe.
For people whose G-d is so "down-to-earth" enough to be offended (כביכול) by being considered to be down here, things work a little differently; the same G-d who made the rules, also decreed that any sincere Jew may reach Him. As was said, אני מתפלל לדעת זה התינוק. So I don't see much of a contradiction.
I don't see why the idea of being דבוק with a Tzadik is becuase the Eibershter needs, k'vyachul, help.
ReplyDeleteבכלל the entire reason is becuase כך עלה ברצונו -just like we connect to him via mitzvos, so to he wanted us to conect with a tzadik -a person so איידל that by him his קשר with G-d is completely דערהערט . . . a tzadik helps us go beyond what we as limtited people can not reach on our own -allowing US to connect to Hashem
YASHER KOCHACHEM MOTTEL AND NATHAN!!!
ReplyDeleteI guess it is possible to discuss serious topics here....
Mottel: You say kach Oloh BiRtzono, but others may disagree and say that it's a Chassidishe Chiddush.
not a chasidishe chidush but kefirah, any person can connect to hashem you dont need a means, and if you truly believe that yom kippur davening with a tzaddik will take away your aveiros you are up for a real surprise, do you really think the torah was given to a bunch of monkeys with no mind of their own. everyone is responsible for his own peckel of aveiros and only with teshuvah and maasim tovim, can it be rectified not by davening with some tzaddik or better yet watching him daven while you pick your nose, (think about it a little, you will know and see the truth) , maybe you believe in confessions to a priest too, or he died for us stuff!!!
ReplyDeleteHirshel, just like how tzimtzum was k'pshuto untill the Chassidus was m'chadish the idea of shlo k'pshuto and the dynamics of creation changed . . .
ReplyDeleteAll chidushim was given to Moshe on Har Sinai, and are therefor nitzchi and emiti.
There are enough riyos from chumash on up for the idea of being m'kusher to a tzadik.
A hesber be-arichus on hiskashrus le-tzaddikim with lots of mekoros: see Rav Gedaliah Kenig's Chayei Nefesh (respinse to Nefesh HaChaim) on Learn page of www.breslovcenter.com. The original has haskomos from BaDaTZ ha-Eidah HaChareidis, Rav Vosner, and others E"Y rabbonim.
ReplyDeleteRe Glick's burps:
ReplyDeleteConfessions not to priests but to friends was standard practice of R' Chaim Vital and other Talmidei HaArizal.
Being punished for our sins is in Yeshaya 53. It is interpreted by various mefarshim as referring either to Tzaddikim in general, or to Mashiach.
Davening with a Tzadik is not to take care of aveiros, but that the teshuva u'maasim tovim would be more sincere; though I have my doubts whether one such as Glick can understand either point.
Mottel: to repeat HT's point, these ra'yos are not compelling. Hiskashrut as we know it today is indeed something that was stressed much more in recent centuries.
Moshe Belanga's addition is well timed, albeit a little terse. I hope to deal with this and related parshot on my own blog in the near future.