they're to be used as a reference only, Lesaber es HoEyzen.
האלמנה דבורה ראם
Studio portrait of a young
Dvoyre Rom, האלמנה .
Studio portrait of Menakhem (Mane) Rom,
elsewhere stated as ראובן, a member of the well-known family
of printers and publishers. turn of the century.
A Lange Megillah from the Yated about the Roms. Believe what you wish.
This still says nothing about the Rashash, or his son.
Surprise, the article avoids mentioning controversy with Slavita openly. And it was terrible!
ReplyDeleteThat's what the article says about it:
Suffice it to say that the debate that arose over the different editions and the copyrights of the various printing houses, was sufficiently stormy to reach the attention of the government representatives, giving rise to suspicions on their part about what was happening in the Jewish printing houses. The matter was serious enough for Czar Nicholas himself to become involved.
...
At this time (5601-1841), R' Menachem passed away, leaving the work in the hands of his son, R' Yosef Reuven Romm. The project was limping badly; there were tremendous debts and there was still a long way to go. There was a fire that year. R' Yosef Reuven however, was undeterred. He steeled himself and went on with the work.
The article present Vilna Romm press as being the pioneers of Shas printing in Russia who've got this idea first. This is completely false. Slavita didn't only start it first, it was in the middle of this massive work, when Romms woke up and decided to publish Vilner Sha"s. Slavita printers (brothers Shapiro - grandsons of Reb Pinchos Koritzer ztz"l) claimed, that Vilner press violates Halocho, because they were in the middle of printing project, and Vilno wants to grab the market and to cause them loss. Beys Din ruled - Romms are forbidden to proceed. Romms went to different Beys Din (who supported misnagdim) and it didn't hesitate to allow them to print.
Later, brothers Shapiro were slandered by maskilim (if Romm press was involved - no idea), and arrested. Their press was closed down, and they lost the market with the Shas. This story is completely ugly, and Menachem Romm died becuase of offense to Slavita printers. (Article just says that he died at that point), that's why you know the printers as almono veachim Romm.
Now litvaks proudly announce anniversaries of the Vilner shas and claim it to be the most superior and etc. They usually skip the ugly story underneath, and don't like to mention that Slavita sforim were of much more superior quality, because brothers Shapiro spent a lot of effort and money on design, and intended to produce sofrim hakdoyshim (they even diped printing planks in mikve), unlike Romms who published many questionable sforim.
Many Tzadikim preferred Slavita Sha"s becuase of the kdusho of the Slavita press.
People try to rewrite history . . . Artscroll and the like try to paint a picture of a perfectly pious past.
ReplyDeleteWe tend to forget that Wrasaw, with all of it's shtibelach had a massive reform Temple . . . Vilna, man dachar shmei! The town was rife with apikursis and the like (as in the video you put up some time back).
Anyhow.
I loved how Yetad writes:
"Whoever is stirred by Vilna and what it represents, will also be moved by the sight of these letters, for they too, are part of the community's many merits."
To me Vilna is the nitzachon of Chassidim. Today, the only Judaism there is Chabad.
Of note, the Rebbe Rashab used Achim Rom as well, for the (re)printing of Tanya and Likutei Torah. In their letters to him they do use a rather flowery Hebrew.
> To me Vilna is the nitzachon of Chassidim. Today, the only Judaism there is Chabad.
ReplyDeleteIs it? I definitely don't agree. May be Chabad have a tooth on Vilno, but it is surely not the only Judaism as you say.
I lived there for three months.
ReplyDeleteJewish culture they have with out Chabad. Everything else is from Chabad.
Even the shul, which due to the trouble makers there no longer has an active Chabad presence -v'da"l, until Chabad came was run by a group of well meaning, but largly ignorant yidden, Chabad set it up on its feet.
I've heard things there were made wrong. Local yidn didn't welcome Chabad (as could be expected). There were some conflicts and power struggle. Helping yidn should be lesheym shomain, and not as a power race. But I wasn't there so I can't be sure about the situation.
ReplyDeleteThis is a reason I read Hamodia and not Yated.
ReplyDelete...and call me provincial, but I too think that Slavuta printing press was far superior. ..and for that matter, so was the one in Sudilkov! ;)
so you see people? it's not what you print, but rather what you DON'T print that decides your direction and opinion. Newspapers in America have decided public opinion like that for decades, never actually lying about anything, but just conveniently omitting inconvenient truths.
ReplyDeleteYour comment reminds me of Drinking Diet Pravda
ReplyDeleteYou guys are not reporting the facts, you are busy repeating your Hassidic propaganda.
ReplyDeleteThe Slavuta shas was already sold out, so the rabbonim ruled that the Vilna Shas could proceed. The Yoseid did discuss the inyan in more detail in the previous articles mentioned.
Re Vilna, again not true. There is a misnagdic Rav there.
As usual the sonei Yisroel calling himself 'a yid' is ready to spew forth his anti-Litvak hate, followed by some fellow-travelers. Yes, it is simple to be a hater, to believe one side without hearing the other, but is that the kind of 'simple Jew' one wants to be ?
Tzig, how about publishing the photo of the Rebbe without a headcovering too, just 'Lesaber es HoEyzen', as you say ?
ReplyDeleteSnag
ReplyDeleteHow about I run my blog the way I like?
R'Akiva Eiger ruled against Slavita.He went on to say:On my honour I have been moichel but cannot be moichel on kovod hatoro (the machloikess had caused major strife and some people must've have gone overboard).The results were horrible.The Shapiro brothers suffered terribly from the goverment.The details are well known.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that 'A yid' 'Simple jew' find the Slavita talmud to be better printed etc...boggles the mind because objectively speaking the Vilna shas was the most beautiful print and that's why it has remained the standard ad hayoim. Maybe I can understand them, they have probably never seen the inside of either edition..
A Yid: Local Yiddin do accept chabad, besides those that do not want to based on financial and other such gains offered by the other side.
ReplyDeleteSNAG: You show yourself to be an am ha'aretz not only in Torah, but in the facts of reality. In Vilna is like the towns of yore. There is a Rav, the shliach, and a Rav M'ta'am, your sonei yisroel. He's busy supporting an organization which feeds treifos and neveilos to children attending there camp (Half of which are not even Jewish B'chlal).
The ones that are not Jewish, why shouldn't they eat neveilos utreifos?
ReplyDelete"A Yid": there's a so-called rov there, who was recently brought in by the "rosh hakohol" for the express purpose of pushing out the Lubavitcher rov, who had built up the shul. This "rosh hakohol" is a mechalel shabbos befarhesia, a menuvel of the first order, who wants to get his greedy paws on any money coming in for reparations, so suddenly he decides that it's an insult to the Vilner Goen to have a chossid as a rov. As if the Goen would prefer a sheygetz like him, abi not a chossid. So he brought in his rov mitaam, who does whatever he says, and they literally used force and violence to throw the legitimate rov out of the shul. Poshut kipshuto. I am not exaggerating or using hyperbole. They raised their hands with force and threw a rov out of the shul where for 10 years he had been the only source of yiddishkeit; and this miserable excuse for a "rov" played along. That is the plain truth. Yimach Shemom, the lot of them, and anyone who supports them.
> R'Akiva Eiger ruled against Slavita.He went on to say:
ReplyDelete>On my honour I have been moichel but cannot be moichel on kovod hatoro
This is known from sources of maskilim who obviously were happy that Slavita was shut down. Litvaks oftet quote this, forgetting where it comes from.
To pj and snag: 1. I know enough about fonts and sforim design to recoginze that Slavita spent much more effort on it unlike Vilno press. But again - chasidim like Slavita sforim not because of their outer beauty (which is apparent, and if you don't know - probably you never saw any Slavita / Zhitomur sforim) but because they had a special kdusho.
ReplyDelete> the rabbonim ruled that the Vilna Shas could proceed
After other rabonim ruled just before they aren't allowed. Slavita was closed down to the profit of Vilna obviously (may be there wasn't involved in closing down directly, but the scandal caused attention of the Tzar who was only eager to shut down Slavita who were the first in Russia spread sforim which could counteract haskolo). Except Vilna, once who profited were maskilim themselves. No offence - all this story is completely ugly.
a yid
ReplyDeleteWhat you write is absoloute nonsense.Still, why does everyone use the Vilna format, including The Lubab (few Lubab learn,I mean The Lubab who need to use a gemaro)
You are invited to buy a Slavita edition, gezunterheit.
Who's "everyone" exactly? that's what's available!
ReplyDeleteChassidim before WW2 would not use the Vilner Shas, can you figure out why?
I gotta admit, the Yated does it's job cery well.
> why does everyone use the Vilna format
ReplyDeleteAs I said - because Vilno took the market, when their competitors were removed by Russian authorities, and not because it was a superior print.
'A yid' - why don't you put your money where your mouth is and make a new Slavuta gemara now if you hold it's so good ?
ReplyDeleteRe Vilna - the Lubavitchers wanted to take over the whole thing there and the people woke up and realized what was happening and took action to prevent it. Naturally they are angry, their game was exposed.
snag
ReplyDeleteyour conspiracy theories compete with the Protocols of the Elders Of Zion
Now you've reallu gone and snagged yourself.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that the Rebbe said that he didn't see kloli hashas until he saw shas vilna at some later date in his education . . . it would seem that he also used Slavita (or at least not vilna)
ReplyDeleteTo all you Lubavitch haters out there, and you know who you are:
ReplyDeleteThe so-called Malochim of Williamsburg used only the Slavita Shas here in America, and that was difficult to get, because they were of the opinion that the Romms of Vilna were Maskilim.
Re Vilna - the Lubavitchers wanted to take over the whole thing
ReplyDeleteTake over what whole thing? You speak as if there was something in Vilna, that Krinsky tried to "take over". The only yiddishkeit in Vilna was Rabbi Krinsky. There was no other yiddishkeit whatsoever. It was the misnaged, in the service of his sheigetz employer, who came in and forcibly took over what Krinsky built.
the people woke up
Which people? Who else beside the sheigetz? They used violence, literally beating people, and you justify this? On what grounds?
Snag next time your oleh l'regel to visit the the gaon, take a look at where any true yiddishkiet is coming from . . .
ReplyDeleteOh wait, you haven't been to Vilna? Then how can you know what's going on?
in Moscow the Misnagdim are crying over the riddance of Shaovitz a mechalel shabbos as chief rabbi of Moscow,as long he is not Chabad.
ReplyDeletethis is "true yiddishkiet" at its best.
In Moscow many litvaks avoid Shaevitch and official "kehilo", because of known problems.
ReplyDelete