Photo credit COL
Used to be that I thought that the Hey Teves celebrations were a bit much. After all, it's only a Yerushah case, not unlike previous generations. That was before I read up about the case, and most importantly, read what the Rebbe had to say. The case that lead to Hey Teves was, as the Rebbe said, a Milchomoh kegen dem Alten Rebben, plain and simple. It may not have seemed that way from the outset, but what transpired over the years of trial and appeals, and the kinds of people that came out of the woodwork to help the G Family, definitely proved that. Any undesirable character that ever had a "beef" with Lubavitch, and some that just hated Lubavitch for no particular reason, saw this as a Jihad no different than the current one in Iraq, and came to fight the "evil empire."
What started out as a desparate man trying to make a few bucks by selling books (possibly to pay for medication for that back condition he had?) snowballed into a challenge that the Rebbe had never faced, a challenge to the right to the throne of Lubavitch leadership. I believe, that had he played his cards right, and gone directly to the Rebbe, and asked for permission to get some books, he may have been granted limited access. But greed got the better of him, and in the end he made a name for himself as the most hated character in Lubavitch history. In the trial 35 years of greed and jealousy bubbled to the surface, and the vicitims of their wrath were many, including the Frierdige Rebbe, who they claimed to inherit, himself. Truth be told many Lubavitchers could not understand at the time what the Rebbe was so upset about, and why it needed to be aired in public, since it seemed to be an internal family dispute. They too were quick to learn what the real intent was.
So, this year on Hey Teves, when you see others sing and dance, and you wonder what the big Nitzachon was, remember guys like Yaakov Shimon aka Fogel Cohen, and many in the Satmarer community who sprang into action to "help" the G's and embarrass Lubavitch. Realize that their sole intention was to show the world that the Rebbe was Chas Vesholom not the Mamshich of the Shalshelta DiDaHava of Nesi'ei Chabad. That would in turn excuse their existence and the fact that they harrassed and attacked the Rebbe and Lubavitch for decades for absolutely no reason. I too realize this now and have much reason to "celebrate." I went out and spent 150 dollars at the Heichel Menachem Seforim sale, as per the Rebbe's instructions.
an Interview with Reb Avremel Shemtov in Kfar Chabad Magazine about the events of Hey Teves
JEM's Hey Teves Video
"I believe, that had he played his cards right, and gone directly to the Rebbe, and asked for permission to get some books, he may have been granted limited access."
ReplyDeleteReally? Only that the fight was that the Seforim belong to the Chassidim and not an inheritance.
But you are right about the fight being over more than just some Seforim.
It's only a Boych Sevoroh of mine, no need to learn Pshat on my words.
ReplyDeleteI believe better - that his father could have easily bailed him out of any financial trouble he had. Not only that, the Rebbe would have bailed him out as well. This was either a very stupid move on his part to alleviate his finances, or finances played no part in it.
ReplyDeleteBoruch Hashem that finally after 20 years LUBAVITCH yugerleit are starting to understand what was going on then.... Most people in CH felt and still feel like u did HT. they thought that all the aguch people and the very few bochurim that where involved were "extremists". What u see the people dancing for 7 days is altz gut un fein... but during di shvere tzeiten thaere werent many supporters... Even Horav Yoel Kahn didnt want to take an official stand!!! We are talking BEIS HORAV here, it was very dificult for the Oylam to swallow this open war (against barry etc). Now BH after years of education the tide is turning, and IYH people will continue to understand the pivotal role that AGUCH had in ALL issues that were important to the Rebbe.
ReplyDeleteYour readers should also know that the whole CH versus AGUCH started in those years with the elections etc... the people of CH looked down upon Aguch still from the court case and it went downhill from there... If you ask around you will see who lined up with who is those times....
It's funny that even when you think you are departing from the "party line", you still can't bring yourself to apportion any blame to anyone but BG.
ReplyDeleteBut Zuravitzer is more right than he knows, the opening of the door to going to goyishe courts goes back to this, and all the chillul hashem (and embarrasement to the 'holy family') that ensued can be traced to this decision to hang Barry out to dry in front of the goyim.
Snag
ReplyDeleteyou know zero about the case, other than what you were fed by others who know nothing. BG was a rebel his whole life, had no friends, and threw away whatever chance he had at anything. He had a better relationship with the Rebbe than with his own father until he got married against the Rebbe's wishes.
He chose to fight the Rebbe in court, not Din Torah, and tried very hard to have the Rebbe come testify in court. That would have been a major Klap for Chabad and the Rebbe but that was his point. He doesn't want your mercy, he made his bed for 60 years and slept in it.
Snag,
ReplyDeleteWhy? Why do you think you know so much about something you have no inkling in? Please tell us.
The Rebbe tried all venues to get Barry to go to a Din Torah (to a non-lLubavitch beis din) but Barry refused to even discuss the idea. He thought he would win this case legally hands down and did not want to take any chances doing things the Jewish way. Lubavitch had NO CHOICE but to go to court. I see you keep bringing up the issue again and again……..Get it through that thick head of yours: NO CHOICE.
Jerk, let me come to your house and rip off all your seforim and then refuse to go to beis din, I am sure you will roll over and go to sleep right?
And there are many in Satmar that happily admit to funding and aiding barry.
Side note Fogel Cohen, I know you read this blog so this is directed at you, how does it feel to slash someone with a knife? Makes that Kaanois blood feel really good huh? Why don’t you come after me with your kaanois huh? Tzig can attest to this I am no Pinnyeh Korf, I will leave everyone of your Hungarian teeth on the sidewalk.
How is that for kaanois?
Read excerpts from the new book by Rabbi Moshe Bogomilsky surrounding the events of Hey Teves
ReplyDeleteThe thievery, the lies, and the conniving, roundabout attempts to sell priceless Seforim.
More on the Library
ReplyDeleteFirst of all to Snag and anyone else who wants to write their BS:
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe asked that the Rabbanim should find a Heter to go to court. The Rebbe also told Yudel to bring the paper with the Heter (I think from the Rambam) to court. It turned out that the judge (for that part) was a Frum Yid who knew Halacha and actually had something from the Ramabam hanging up in his office. He asked them why they came to court instead of Bais Din and they explained him why (this was all because the Rebbe forsaw it).
Also, they were only planning to go to court for the first phase and then to go to Rabbanim but Barrys lawyers said right away that they wanted to fight the whole thing in court.
Secondly as far as the Rebbes depostion: It wasnt that the court paskened that the Rebbe didnt have to but Barry and his lawyers decided (becasue of a certain deal that we made-maybe that the Rashag wouldnt have to say Eidus)that the Rebbe didnt have to.
HT,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you say that Barry got married agaisnt the Rebbes wishes? I know that he invited the Rebbetzin and not the Rebbe but why agaisnt the Rebbes wishes.
Barry lived for a number of years in Monroeville,Pa which is only about 20 minutes from Squirrel Hill where the Lubavitch Kehilla in Pittsburgh is. I wonder if he had any Shaychus to Anash in Pittsburgh-it would be intresting to know.
He worked in Westinghouse where he patented a few things.
The Rebbe was not Maskim to the shidduch, and therefore did not attend the wedding. He supposedly cried alot for Barry that night, and that's when the connection was broken between the two.
ReplyDeleteI know a certain librarian in YU who would know more about BG's connection to Lubavitch in Pittsburgh, if there was any.
I know the librarian too, somehow he has a strange obssesion on Chabad, for hours he can bash chabad and then turns around,
ReplyDeleteOh great Schneur, where art thou?
ReplyDelete"I will leave everyone of your Hungarian teeth on the sidewalk."
ReplyDeleteWait, you never visited Chana Gourary did you?
so we have
ReplyDeleteSnag
Snag2
real snag
and now "the echter snag."
an all-star lineup, that's for sure.
Schneur is out mourning the Nakba of 5 Teves. Leave him be.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I cannot for the life of me understand why he'd take up that cause. It was a sure loser.
Tzig
ReplyDeleteDon't you love preaching to the choir, where everybody agrees with every dumb word you say.The Rebbe got a 'psak' allowing to go to a secular court:True.From who? R'Aizik Schvei.A real choshuveh guy.Really.But what do you think he would pasken if the Rebbe 'wanted' to go to court, that it's muttar, right?What a figs leaf, to cover Lubabs proverbial backside.Had they wanted a real psak they would have gone to an impartial non Lubavitch rabbi.The truth, and this I heard from an insider with no ax to gring with Lubavitch, was that they would have probably lost.R'Chaim Lieberman (who has since than become nonexistant in Lubavitch)was the previous Rebbes right hand man for many years, he testified that it was the previous Rebbes private property.Barry acting as his moms man would have won his fair share.Lubavitch ganged up on him, and had some luck that the judge was a gentile
As a result of this triumphalism and a dose of Kanous they belted up Barry's mother, the daughter of the Frierdiker Rebbe.
ReplyDeleteFor this reason ALONE nobody should celebrate anymore. The pictures of that poor woman
in hospital should shake anyone to their core. If it doesn't, you aren't a Chossid, and your Tzidkus
is nonsense.
Ya gotta love these guys whose knowledge comes from their collective rears. They speak words, yet they say nothing. They speak of compassion yet they have none for others.
ReplyDeleteBarry suddenly remembered after 35 years that his Zeide had seforim and other personal objects that belonged to him? And that's why he went in there in the middle of the night like a common thief, because it was rightfully his?
Chaim Lieberman is mentioned plenty in Lubavitch. Why just last week in the Kfar Chabad there were multiple mentions of him, and none were about the court case. He was an old man who hung around with Chana for years, she literally fed him his meals, so he went and flushed incriminating (for them) documents down the toilet! Also, because it was rightfully theirs, right? sure. People have zero knowledge about Chaim Lieberman, yet they speak of him like some kind of saint.
I remember that rag came out in the last 80's, the one put out by some Satmarer called Di Yiddishe Velt whose sole purpose was to ridicule Lubavitch and the Rebbe. They had a supposed "interview" with RCL when he was living in Aishel. What a joke.
Imagine if Lazer Shach's sister-in-law and nephew would embarrass him like that, shlepping him to court like a common criminal, imagine the bloodshed! See what happens when 2 Roshei Yeshiva fight amongst themselves, the beatings, the pipe bombs and the daily visit by the police. Here one Yerushalmi bocher gave her a Zetz in the nose and that was it. They could've very easily made her life very, very miserable, yet they were treated with some respect. When Rashag died Barry came to the Levaya and Lubavitcher Bocherim watched over him. When Chana died a delegation(!) of the Chevra Kadisha went to his home in New Jersey and begged him that he put his mother next to her father in Montefiore Cemetery. But his stubborness, the same trait that made him a rebel and had him throw away his life, got the better of him and he said NO.
As far as going to Beis Din vs. court goes: We all know Barry would never go to Beis Din, so what's the point of discusiing whether or not there was a Heter, and who the heter came from. It's like the Hisachdus signing a Kol Koreh by the Satmar Rebbe, does it have any Rabbinic validity since they're all Satmar Chassidim?
dear PJ
ReplyDeletestop sleeping and look in to the facts, Bogimelski has in his book 2 pesokim of the goan hador R' Fishel Herhkovits, according to him he had no right to steal,
It is amazing how every chabad hater from satmar to misnagdim come up with new arguments constantly, they have no problem with Reb YoelZ"l calling the Klausenberger rebbe Z"l to Zionist Begatz in Zefat on the issue of the Tolchover house, and now the 2 Tietelbaum brothers were and still are in court, the CRC has no problem. Then they had the chutzpa to call the Rebbe to din torah.
In israel the misnagdim have no problem to go to court in ponivezh.
Why all the knee jerk reactions?
ReplyDeleteLet's think, analyze for a second:There was reason that Lubavitch was all up in arms at the time.They themselves realized that they stood a great chance of losing.Generally to say that a Rebbes library is actually the communities is stretching things quite a bit,even Lubavitch realized this.I was told by an insider non Lubavitcher source, someone involved in the case, that Lubavitch would probably have lost in a din torah.I don't know for a fact if this is right, but it sounds very reasonable.Now about a bes din:In every machloikess that ends up in secular court every side will claim that they 'had' to go to a goyishe court and they have a 'heter'.Ok. (it's not Ok, but that is the way it works, not unique to this case)What I did not like is going to somebody like R'Ayzik Schvei for a heter.Let me state this so you don't misunderstand me:R'Ayzik was a very special guy, had he been in the Litvishe velt he would have gone very far, he was a quite, unassuming person and a very big talmid chochom.Nontheless, since when do you go to a member of the 'family' to get a 'psak', this carries a heavy whiff of unseemliness. I agree that Barry did something very foolish by appearing to be 'stealing' the seforim, he had a very good case and surely Lubavitch, knowing the danger of losing, would have settled (actually no so sure because of some deep family politics?)
You know to get into family politics is never an easy thing, there are so many issues an outsider is missing, but, you may have noticed:Chana the elder daughter was 'treyfed up' by this, Shayna married , according to some posters here, against her dad (I don't know if this is true) so you atam give yourselves a black eye.
Last but not least:I want to share a 'hergesh' from a chasidish non Lubavitcher friend.This guy loved Chabad torah, used to come to 770 for farbrengens etc.He started growing distanced when he saw certain things that did not square with 'edelkait',anyway,he told me this:''Nu, you 'have' to go to court against a fellow yid,ok, BUT how can you make such a simcha out of this?Barry Gurarie was rightly or wrongly crushed, where is the 'binfoil oyvecho al tismach?There is something very oom-adel with this'''
I guess you guys have no problem with this 'hergesh'..
PJ
ReplyDeletethe Hersgesh is a silly one for the following reason, although I can imagiune where the guy is coming from. If you look at it from a perspective of the great צער that the Rebbe was in, and the בזיונות that may have resulted in the Rebbe first needing to testify in court, and then losing the case, you van understand the subsequent joy. It was not a victory celebration over BG.
Zuravitzer said:
ReplyDelete“Now BH after years of education the tide is turning, and IYH people will continue to understand the pivotal role that AGUCH had in ALL issues that were important to the Rebbe.”
Education or brainwashing? If one were to read Animal Farm again, one would begin to see the same type of justification you guys are doing and the same type of “reeducation” If your Olam needed to be “educated” why this outrage against Barry’s mother took place and how their exalted Messiah ended up in court, then the truth be known, something “smells rotten in the state of Lubavitch”. Now I understand the great celebrations associated with that court case. As one poster rightfully said, it is weird to celebrate someone’s loss in court. The celebrations is a cult-like ritual to reinforce the brainwashing and make sure none of the youth question the right of some wild animal Chassidim from bashing in a little old lady’s head.
As for your bringing up the “violence” of Cohen/Fogel who you claim to know reads your blog, with a knife one can do a whole lot more damage than a beard trim. And Cohen/Fogel, with weapon in hand, (although that is all hearsay and has never been proven, but going with the hypothesis that it was him) did no wounding. And your chevra, without any weapons, used their bodies as weapons to bash in Chana’s face. Methinks I’d rather meet Cohen/Fogel on a street than you guys.
My dear Grose:
ReplyDeleteYour brainwashing is my education, much like a Goy would tell you that every Jewish child is brainwashed to believe in G-d. You were brainwashed to believe that Lubavitch is always wrong, and their detractors always right, as is evident from your defense of the despicable Cohen character.
You can repeat the lies you were miseducated with, but that won't change the facts. So far be it from me to disturb your blissful existence.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, PAL.
You don’t have your facts straight, and since you brought my name to the lips of those who told me I’m featured here, I thought I’d get a posting of the truth through my Mazkir.
ReplyDelete1. Barry Gurary came to me and asked for protection. He did not need my help financially or otherwise, just as protection. The way he did it was like this. His lawyers deposited in a safe-deposit box a manuscript of what he and his mother wrote about the biography of the Rebbe. One key for the deposit box was by me and one was by a person in Crown Heights. That person in Crown Heights told the Rebbe that I had the only key and showed him portions of the manuscript. The Rebbe was told that if anything happened to Barry, I would publish that manuscript. The day that happened, Barry stopped having death threats.
2. The beating of Chana Gurary forced her to move away from 770 and separated her from her sister. Up until then, the sisters had been very close and the Rebbetzin was not cooperative with anything that was against her sister and her nephew.. Once Chana was out of Crown Heights, the Rebbetzin at her age and stage was pressured and convinced to cooperate with the Rebbe, which she was not doing until Chana moved away.
3. All of you don’t know who really won big time. After the case, the Rebbe had to settle with Barry to keep the Rebbe’s aggravated violence out of the courts and keeping the manuscript off the market. To do that the Rebbe had to pay a monetary settlement, more than the value of what Barry estimated his part of the inheritance should be. As part of that transaction, I had to return the key and the lawyers proved to the Rebbe that I had never had access to the manuscript. The person in Crown Heights, however, who had the other key, I suspect still has a copy of that manuscript. (Since I had no rights to it, I could not release the manuscript while I had the key, but Barry’s lawyers and myself got to show the manuscript to some knowledgeable people to prove that the material therein was accurate, stimulating and interesting – and of the nature that the Rebbe would not want it published.)
Now we know why the Rebbe was so agitated, which “alter rebbe” was really threatened, why the beating was necessary, who really won in the end, and what belongs to the Chusid Barry…and who had the last laugh.
What I’m telling you was common knowledge to a select portion of the Crown Heights community then. You can only sell your story to newcomers, either the children you teach your version to or the Neshamos you keep trying to fill your ranks with. But the old-timers will never buy this false version that Avremele Shemtov has written in Kfar Chabad.
Yakov Shimon Cohen through my Mazkir
That door won't hit me...unless you end up thinking that I'm another Chana who needs a door hitting me ;)
ReplyDeletedoors have minds of their own, they know whom to hit on the way out.
ReplyDeleteSnags can snag themselves on this issue over at mentalblock. Tzig proudly defends stupid accusations posed as enlightenment and global mentchlichkeit.
ReplyDeleteA woman snared (or snagged) an innocent low IQ bochur with mental problems to commit a theft. Not just any theft, but a theft against Nesi Doreinu. The bochur discovers that it was theft once it is publicized. Being mentally unstable, he goes and beats her up. She accept blood money for this attack. It is a side issue, a moral of being careful with how you commit a crime, with twisting innocent people. To continue to mix it in to the main issue, that of BG and his possible lack of funds and definite lack of respect for the Rebbe is to teach reading in the same class as physics.
To Yaakov Shimon Cohen:
ReplyDeletePlease try your hand at writing haimishe fiction. Your version of events is very fascinating fiction and would make a great plot for a novel along the lines of The Will.
However, in terms of accuracy, it is right up there with such paragons of truth as Ponim Chadashos and Der Blatt. Not quite creative enough for my blog, but except for NK looneys and Sholam Weiss (and lehavdil an occasional parody of Lipa Schmeltzer), I don't write dirt about real people.
As for Barry, this whole inyan had nothing to do with funds. He never lacked for anything. It had to do with the machshefa (herself a successful stockbroker) whom he married against the Rebbe's advice. And hence the anger, the breaking off of contact, and the geneiva. She was behind it all.She probably wanted Barry to become Rebbe (CHAS VESHOLOM) eventually so that she could be in a position of power, influence, and fleecing funds.
Clue me in, please.
ReplyDeleteWho is Yaakov Shimon Cohen?
Who is his Mazkir?
And why would he be given such incriminating evidence at such a crucial time?
Most of all, what keeps him from releasing this powerful stuff today?
Yaakov Shimon Cohen is a menuval from Williamsburgh who orchestrated the beating of Reb Mendel Wechter. His mazkir is someone who can render "hymish" into English and who has no morals and/or has missed a few doses of Geodon lately. This is assuming that the whole post is indeed authentic; the "mazkir" could just be posting garbage and claiming he has some connection to Cohen. Cohen has nothing of validity to publish at any time except for his account of how he found a couple of fellow oisvorfen to help him beat up Reb Mendel W.
ReplyDeleteHirshel
ReplyDeleteCan you get the shoiteh Der Shygetz to bugger off.He gives Lubavitch a bad name
Brooklyn
ReplyDeleterelax, he's doing no such thing.
Seriously speaking, can anyone else (aside from YSC and Mazkir) verify this story's authenticity or lack thereof?
ReplyDeleteShpy,
ReplyDeleteThat famous librarian somewhat did.
H,
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point in your post about all the bandwagoners that jumped aboard to help the Gouraries (who wouldn’t have given them even the slightest thought had they not been challenging the Rebbe).
But it’s hard for me to be happy about this day. To me, it’s a day with more sadness than joy… sorta like winning a battle but taking heavy casualties…
Barry was not a casualty of Hey Teves, he had been MIA for 35 years prior, better yet 45 years. Nobody sought him out to finish the deal, he brought it on himself, and by humiliating the Rebbe, Kevayochol.
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to see mentalblock predictably bringing up the issue again. B"H it is cryptic enough that it seem that he is leaving readers to have to search backwards to figure out what else he wrote on this subject, and our comments are all still back there.
ReplyDeleteThis usually triggers his mania again, let's see what happens.
I am surprised Failure Scotty did not cover Hay Teves this year.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that BG is a cause celebre for every borderline frum or formerly frum misfit who scribbles out a few (often purloined) words on the Web. The truth is that these failures cannot stand success. Chabad is success, and they are consumed with their anger at being unable to identify with and take part in that success. BG was basically a misfit and a failure, so they use his less than blessed memory as a stick with which to impotently take a few childish whacks at Chabad.
to Mr PJ and his Fienshmeker friends.
ReplyDeleteDo you know that YUD Kislev the Yom Hatzole of the Miteller Rebbe was caused by a Nephew also for financial gains.Only in christianity you believe in offering your face to be slapped.
Dear Yakov Shimon
ReplyDeleteSince you know the manuscript please clarify me the following I heard in CH from insiders.
1) The Rebbe's family name was not Schneerson,his father never had kids.
2) The wedding in Warsaw never took place, Zalman Gurari invented it in yud shevat 1952, and Aguch paid big Bucks to falsify Old News papers.
3) Chaya Mushka lived with her sister on the 2nd floor and never stepped in to the house on President st. Only at old age (unfotunatly she couldnt call you for protection since you are the official Schneerson protector) some bohurim took her their by force.
Anonymous 9.13:
ReplyDeleteYou forgot the most important insider story:
A will was written which named R' Aron Teitelbaum of Kiryas Joel as the successor to the Rebbe. Aguc"h had it destroyed as it would have meant the end of their power.
Lubavitch: The Conspiracy, Directed by Asher Stein
ReplyDeleteI always knew we were fed a certain amount of propaganda, but to what extent?
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that we'll probably never hear the truth because everybody's got an agenda to promote.
Any suggestions for truth seekers?
Especially to Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteMaybe you misunderstood what I was saying - This is what I meant:
5 Teves and all its surrounding details is hardly a day that I find much to be joyous about, because the damage seems to be far greater than the victory. So many people – especially the Rebbe and the nesius (even with the court “victory”) – were clearly hurt badly by the events that resulted. The damage that that resulted has given virtually limitless fodder for the enemies of Lubavitch for generations to come!
IMHO, everyone – Lubavitch especially – would have been far better off had they had a sit down with Barry and worked out a deal that would have made him financially happy and forget about the legal formalities.
Of course, I understand that that would possibly open up a never ending spiral of having to pay Barry off to make him happy, but I have 3 answers to that:
1. Even if the Barry yerusha (money) problem would possibly return, so what?
2. An official agreement could have been made with Barry signing away future claims.
3. Sometimes “giving in” outweighs the ramifications of winning by so much that that cheshbon becomes essentially irrelevant.
To me, the bottom line is, was it all worth it? It’s hard for me to see how it was…
Interesting tid-bit (from http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol04/v04n104.shtml):
ReplyDeleteI've heard, from my b-i-l the ex-lawyer, that this case is taught
in law schools in Wills & Estates. Unfortunately, he tossed out most of his law books when he quit in disgust last summer, so I can't
get details from him.
To der Shygetz
ReplyDeletesince Fogel/Cohen is from the other party, he added a rider to the manuscript that Reb Zalman Lieb will officiate as Admor, but unfortunatly Aguch burned the manuscript and we are stuck...
"I always knew we were fed a certain amount of propaganda, but to what extent?
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that we'll probably never hear the truth because everybody's got an agenda to promote.
Any suggestions for truth seekers? "
This quote attributed to conspiracy theorists everywhere.