Hmmm writes:
The Shliach in question, Rabbi Yossi Shemtov of Toledo, Ohio, and the Rabbi in question, Rabbi Ed Garsek of Congregation Etz Chayim of Toledo, had enjoyed what the Shliach thought was a warm relationship. At times the Rabbi even joked about having Rabbi Shemtov replace him, if he made Aliyah. Until one day, the Shliach finds out that the Rabbi is bringing a Yeshivah of people of not the highest caliber - among their low qualities is their "hatzlacha" in promoting Machlokes, including with Chabad - to Toledo under the auspices of his Congregation.
One would expect that in a true friendship, if a Rabbi had an idea - to bring a Yeshivah to town - he would approach his colleague and friend and discuss this. Perhaps they will bring a Yeshiva of Chabad bochurim. Perhaps they will bring a group of Kollel gentlemen who will be friendly to the both of them. Perhaps even a joint venture, a mixture of various types of rebbeim, including Chabad. Perhaps the Rabbi might think this something particular to discuss with Rabbi Shemtov, as Rabbi Shemtov has brought a Yeshiva of bochurim every summer for a few years to make Torah study available for the Toledo Jewish community.
As the Rabbi did none of this, it was quite clear to the Shliach that their friendship was over, and perhaps had never existed on the first place. He privately discussed this with the Rabbi. He asked him, perhaps begged, not to do it. He never spoke of this publicly.
May Harry Maryles vasayato snag themselves to hell.
Hirshel ah gutteh voch. Can you please tell me the backround of Harry Maryles? What makes him tick? I am curious to know.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Oh and whats ed's Jewish name?
ReplyDeleteThere happens to be a Lubavitcher bochur learning in the Yeshiva in Toledo
ReplyDeleteGo cry me a river.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me?
ReplyDeleteTzig, you know I like Chabad and have defended its Chassidim in a number of forums. And I will continue to do so. But this complaint is one of the most absurd, ridiculous and retarded complaints I've read in a long time. I am particularly disappointed in hmmm. I expected more logic from him.
ReplyDeleteEven among friends, hakol moidim that there is a HUGE difference between a Chabad Yeshiva/Kollel and an Olamshe Yeshiva/Kollel. He should discuss a new full-time litvish-style yeshiva with a shaliach because the merkos bochurim who come during the summer have a kadima?! Hayitochein!? Mah Inyan Shmitta Eitzel Har Sinai?! If their friendship is over, then the shaliach is delusional. I hope this is not the case.
The heads of this new venture are not son'ei Chabad. I know who they are. But I can almost promise you that if the shaliach plays his cards wrong, (and it wouldn't be the first time a shaliach played his cards wrong when perceiving an imagined threat from a new player in town,) he will turn them into son'im. Had an Aish or a Wolfson clone opened up, I could perhaps hear the taina a little more. Just alittle. But this is a Yeshiva! Amazing! Another mossad DARES open up shop in a city where there is ALREADY a shaliach of the Rebbe! Shomu Shomayim!!
Hmmmm, I expected a little more bittul from you.
please explain what the problem would have been had Aish or Woflson opened
ReplyDeleteyehupitz, the assumptions in your post are ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteThe Shliach is doing just fine. He has said nothing to anyone but the Rabbi, and has used this to gain in other areas. The issue here is Harry Maryles spreading this over the internet, probably thinking he is avoiding Rechilus because a) it's only Chabad, and b) he didn't give the actual city - but the fool gave enough identifying info that I and his fellows immediately recognized who it is.
Although yehupitz does not know how these people acted when they moved into town and visited..vdal.. they are not friends.. I would take this off your site. It will not benefit the community, the rabbi or shliach. there are reasons why the parties involved have not made a public stink about it. We should not force them to do so. You are no longer an observor you become an actor and an instigator even though it is no bdavka. You can be making more problems for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI agree it should disappear - when Harry Maryles takes his vile post down.
ReplyDeleteHmmm
ReplyDeleteYou are in seventh heaven.You 'defended' the Rebbe and Chabad.What would they do without you?
And finally, HM practices censorship. My latest post was deleted. Good luck, Harry! Maybe next gilgul you will choose a Jewish name to be called by.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand. Rabbi Garsek is the Mara d'Asra of Toledo. Period. He can do as he pleases or does not please. There can be no ta'anos on him no matter what, so long as he is conducting himself and his kehillah al pi Torah.
ReplyDeletea) The issue is that it is not al pi Torah.
ReplyDeleteb) Who died and made him Mara D'Asra? He's a Rabbi of a shul.
Of course he has the right to bring in whomever he likes. But there's the question of yosher. When the shliach tells him that these people he proposes to bring in will make him tzoros, and asks him not to bring them, and the Rabbi ignores him, the shliach has the right to feel hurt. In haloche there's a concept of yesh lei olov taareimes — a beis din can do nothing for him, but he has the right to be upset. In this case, the shliach has done nothing to make this split public, it was Harry who brought it to the world's attention, but nobody can expect the shliach to carry on as if nothing had happened.
ReplyDelete1. It is certainly al pi Torah to bring a yeshiva into time - at any time, under any circumstances. See the Chazon Ish's discussion of this at the beginning of Emunah u'Bitachon.
ReplyDelete2. So far as we know, there was and is only one Orthodox shul in town, of which he is the Rav. Ergo, he is the Mara d'Asra.
3. It is absurd to characterize Ner Israel as an anti-Chabad yeshiva. Indeed, one of the greatest Chabad talmidei chachamim, Rabbi Ezra Schochet shlita ("The Rosh") is an alumnus of Ner Israel, for whom Rabbi Ruderman zt"l had great regard. Current NIRC is no more, and probably less, anti-Chabad than other Litvishe yeshivos - Chabad's issues with Rabbi Weinberg zt"l notwithstanding. If you can't bring in the most moderate of yeshivos and start a NIRC yeshiva, you can't bring in any Litvishe yeshiva.
Where in Hilchos Mara D'Asra is this definition?
ReplyDeleteWho cares if he had a right or not? It is claiming friendship while doing this that is absurd. You have a "right" to bring Jews for yoizele yimach shmom there as well.
A good defintion of MdA may be found here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/sichos-in-english/34/23.htm
I know what you will protest, but you are not correct. Think about it.
Friendship is not a greater value in Yahadus than Torah. And if bringing a Yeshiva into town ruins a friendship, then it was certainly an ahava ha'teluya b'davar.
The last sentence in your comment excedes the definition of absurd by several orders of magnitude.
"then it was certainly an ahava ha'teluya b'davar"
ReplyDeleteThe truest sentence published in a long time
der alter, a)there is nothing there about Mara D'Asra, it is about Rabbanus. b) what popular ballot was cast for him on Toledo, and when?!
ReplyDelete"Friendship is not a greater value in Yahadus than Torah"
This statement is made, although it is an absolute contradiction to Pirkei Avos - "Ohev Sholom VeRodef Sholom", which is lifnim meshuras hadin - precisely higher than Torah.
Truly an echter alter snag, who has been snagged so deeply that it is all you have.
The use of the sentence ahava hateluta bedavar here is ridiculous. Obviously Ahava is telya bedavar - ahava! If the ahava on one side is removed publicly by bringing a destructive force to town, then obviously the public ahava on the other end will disappear.
ReplyDelete1. Who told you I am a Misnaged? A Ba'al Mussar must strive to transcend petty labels! In no way did my comments reflect any Misnagdic vs. Chassidic tendency.
ReplyDelete2. In a town with one shul that voted in a Rav, he is the elected Mara d'Asra.
3. IIUC, R' Garsek has been rodef shalom, but such shalom was al tnai that the NIRC yeshiva not be brought to town. This is the exact type of davar that Chazal referred to. The shaliach, realizing that the opening of a yeshiva is Halachically sanctioned and encouraged, should have made his peace with it and with R' Garsek.
"a destructive force "
ReplyDeleteI wonder what you mean by that?
anon, I am glad that you are still naive and innocent.
ReplyDeleteechte alter snag:
1. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...
2. This is a pretty chidush, I still await the source.
3. Why does a Yeshivah have to be NIRC, there is no other form of permissible Yeshivah? Considering that for more than 4 years now a group of Lubavitcher bochurim have been coming to town specifically to sit and give Shiurim all day and were not nogeia in the kovod of the Rov, veaderaba. Declarations of Reshus HaTorah and Halachically permitted only bring to mind the Ramban's well known Novol Bershus HaTorah.