Monday, December 18, 2006
Yeshivas Derech HaMelech
"Yeshivas Derech HaMelech is a new Torah learning center in Jerusalem that offers the mature and experienced English-speaking bachur an intensive learning experience, where he can grow into his full potential, in an inspiring atmosphere that stresses diligent Torah study, together with simcha, tefillah and avodas Hashem.
This video includes HaRav Moshe Weinberger, shlit"a, Rav of Congregation Aish Kodesh of Woodmere, NY; HaRav HaGaon R' Moshe Wolfson, shlit"a, Rav of Congregation Emunas Yisroel of Boro Park, Brooklyn, Mashgiach of Yeshivas Torah VoDaas; HaRav HaGaon R' Tzvi Meir Zilberberg, shlit"a, Rosh Chaburas Nachlas Yaakov of Jerusalem; HaRav HaGaon R' Mordechai Zilber, shlit"a, Stuchiner Rebbe of Congregation Toldos Yehudah in Boro Park, NY; Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twersky, Ph.D., shlit"a, Founder of Gateway Rehabilitation Center, Pittsburgh, and many others."
[Sounds like a good and way overdue idea, although I can't imagine why it's taken so long. My question is can a Yeshivah like this continue without being too hard on some Bochurim? by "hard" I mean as follows: Can it allow for a Bochur without a beard or hat, who desires to grow in Torah and Yiras Shomayim, to remain the way he is on the outside? Or will he be pressured to conform to other so-called Chassidishe Yeshivos? - HT]
How are you feeling? Are you sure this yeshiva is really new? Unless 2 yeshivas use the same name, I think this was founded a few years ago, and I wonder if it has succeeded at all.
ReplyDeleteFeeling better, Boruch Hashem, although still not "all there."
ReplyDeleteI can't say that's it's beand-new, nor did I say that it was, but it's very much relatively new. I liked the idea of Bochurim preparing their own rooms, painting, assembling etc.
It is new. It was created by the Breslover enthusiast, with support of Reb Motl Zilber (Stuchiner Rov), Reb Moyshe Wolfson and other Chasidic activists, who desire to improve the state of Chasidus today through education. The pioneer of this idea was the Pyasechtner Rebbe ztz"l, that's why the called the yeshiva after him "Derech haMelech" (his seyfer).
ReplyDeleteI think this is the first such yeshiva after the one in Pyasetchno, (Chabad is out because politics killed Chabad yeshovoys).
ReplyDeleteI meant new - relatively. It was open few years ago. (May be two or so).
ReplyDeleteThis yeshiva propagates Chasidic way of study (unlike many even chasidim who adopted the way of litvaks with sitting for many month on one daf of Gemoro whole day) and encourages the broad knowledge of Toyro.
It allso is supposed to teach nistar with various levels (Reb Motl Zilber goes there once in a while to give shiurim). They incorpoprate the learning of nigle and Chasidus and nistar together, but I don't know too much details about it.
ReplyDeleteAbout conforming - I think this yeshiva is encouraging chasidic values (and in dress too) and wants from the talmid not to be a mufkar outside (as well as inside). But I doubt that it is forced there like in some yeshivoys.
ReplyDeleteOne or Two years old. There had been a Lubavitcher Mekurav who switched to there who was blogging.
ReplyDelete1) what's up with Reb Zvi Meir, why the need to shake and jump like that?
ReplyDelete2) I seem to see some "Lubavitch-looking" young men. (and others who don't look it at all....)
3) do you happen to know the blog he ran?
r' tzvi mayer macht mir nervayz.
ReplyDeleteHershel,
ReplyDelete3) His blog was hacked. It's no longer up. He is a bright young man that some mekushar-fanatics turned off big time. He'll do fine.
Don't think it was hacked, I think he let it lapse and someone picked it up. It had been yehoshua.blogspot.com - maybe a cache of it is somewhere? He was a mekurov of Yossi Serebriansky in CO, went to Morristown, went to Israel (Mayanot? Or maybe straight to them), and then drifted along.
ReplyDeleteR'Mottel Zilber is Rabbis Wolfsons son in law and R'Mayer Tzvi Ziblerberg is R'Gedalye Shors grandson.The reason I mention this is that these men (r'gdalyah, r'wolfson, r'twersky probably r'mottel zilber;I don't know where r'meir tzvi learned)learned in a Litvishe style yeshivas, Tora Vodaas, Ner Yisroel and came out just fine:I don't know what they think they are saying to talmidim:Do as I say, though I myself became the person I am learning in a regular yeshiva?
ReplyDeleteI've seen many cases where the father studied in a Litvihe yeshiva, became chasidish than sends his own kids to chasidishe places and realizes that his kids are not the 'mevakshim' he expected.One case which will remain anonymous:The father is a massive talmid chochom in nigleh and nistar, he already bacame so chasidish that he 'had' to send them to a chasidishe yeshiva.The results:Very, very mediocre.The fact of the matter is that many of the top talmidei chachomim by chasidim INCLUDING in Lubavitch are products of Litvishe yeshivos
and your question is *drumroll.....*:
ReplyDeleteAre they mediocre because the Yeshvishe velt won't accept anyone not of their own as being a lamdan, or being of so-called "inferior" education? I know of a Lubavitcher Yungerman, an ilui, a boki in shas, sharp as a nail, who was actually approached by fellow Lubavitchers (we won't get into their names and mother's names...) to be paid to sit and shteig and become a true Godol that Lubavitch can pasmakave zich with him... What do you think his answer was? You think he agreed?
Go snag yourself!
Bye! I m off to the yeshiva!
ReplyDelete> The fact of the matter is that many of the top talmidei chachomim by chasidim
ReplyDelete> INCLUDING in Lubavitch are products of Litvishe yeshivos
Which is not an indication of those yeshivoys, buy an indication of those talmidey chachomim, who didn't go along with litvish system, while being in it. Today litvishe system is geared not to produce talmidey chachomim, but to provide environment where people will be simply kept from and intellectually stimulated. It is nowhere near the derech halimid how it was in Europe.
Which is not an indication of those yeshivoys, buy an indication of those talmidey chachomim, who didn't go along with litvish system, while being in it.
ReplyDeletea Yid: That's gotta be the best response to that oft-heard Tayneh I've ever heard! Thank You.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteAre you also a deluder?I thought better of you.I was not even getting into Chassidus vs Lutvack theology, all I stated that by and large the biggest talmide chachomim have come out of Litvishe yeshivas.This includes chassidim and non chassidim.Lakewood, Brisk ,Luzern, Gateshead even Ponovizh are filled with chasidisheh bochurim who are metzuyonim.
About yeshivas today as opposed to yesteryear:Very similar, though today yeshivas are a lot frummer at least bechitzoiniyus.Beards and peyos are very common probably because of the chasidishe influence.Thers is a 'yeridas hadoros' everywhere, will you compare todays Lubavitcher chassidim to R'Mendel Futerfas' generation??
> Lakewood, Brisk ,Luzern, Gateshead even Ponovizh are
ReplyDelete> filled with chasidisheh bochurim who are metzuyonim.
Arey they really learning Toyro as they are supposed to, al pi emes? How do you meausere the level of "metzuyonim"?
Reb Tuvye Goldshteyn za"l from Eimek Halocho used to say (and he wasn't from chasidim as you might know, though he wasn't at all a misnaged), that posuk: "oz yeranenu atzey hayoar" (then forest trees will rejoice) which speaks the times of Moshiach speak about false chidushim. I.e. the trees will sing, because they'll not be used as firewood anymore, but all those false chidushim which were written not according to the Toyro! Many people learn and are considered “metzuyonim” but very few of them know anything about klaley hoyroo and Toyro leamitoy. Reb Tuvye Goldshteyn za"l for example never used hidushey haRasha”sh (printed in the end of Vilner Sha”s, don't mix with Reb Sholom Sharabi). He said that they are wrtitten wrongly and contain numerous incorrect statements which are wrong according to halocho! He wasn't a posyek at all, and didn't know obviously klaley hoyroo, and was explaining Gemoro according to his own ideas. And his chidushim were published just because he was very rich and paid for it.
Toyro should be measured according to emes, and not according to “metzuyonim”.
if you look at the roshei yeshiva in lubavitch today, it seems taht many came out of brenuei, lubavitch yeshiva, where R goldberg was rosh yeshiva, the wilshanski brothers, kalmanson brothers, labkowski brothers, goldberg brothers etc
ReplyDeleteReb Yasef Goldberg of Brunoy learned in Lubavitch.
ReplyDelete"Reb Tuvye Goldshteyn za"l from Eimek Halocho used to say (and he wasn't from chasidim as you might know, though he wasn't at all a misnaged), that posuk: "oz yeranenu atzey hayoar" (then forest trees will rejoice) which speaks the times of Moshiach speak about false chidushim. I.e. the trees will sing, because they'll not be used as firewood anymore, but all those false chidushim which were written not according to the Toyro!"
ReplyDelete1) You don't know what you are talking about. R. Tuvya came from a Chassidishe background and wore a gartel when he was young, but later stopped.
2) I think that vort has been around a while and comes from before him.
"Reb Tuvye Goldshteyn za"l for example never used hidushey haRasha”sh ...."
3) I don't know about that, will have to ask. Certain Chassidim (like you evidently) have a war against the Rashash zt"l, maybe he retained that from his Chassidishe background. Anyway, since when does someone have to be a poisek to write hagohos on Shas? Limayseh many gedoilim are machshiv the Rashash. Some Chassidim don't like him because he once wrote something about gilgul that is not according to their shita, so they went crazy, as they have done at other times when people held from a different shita than them.
"Toyro should be measured according to emes, and not according to “metzuyonim”."
Emes.
> Anyway, since when does someone have to be a poisek to write hagohos on Shas?
ReplyDeleteOne doesn't have to be, if he wants to write some ideas for himself. But if one wants to publush chidushim they have to be true! If they are false - while he has a right guess what he wants - publishing them he spreads false Toyro. Isn't it obvious?
> You don't know what you are talking about. R. Tuvya came from a Chassidishe
ReplyDelete> background and wore a gartel when he was young, but later stopped.
Aha! And the this fact together with the fact that he wasn't a misnaged and wasn't scared to be opposed to "big" people (who thought they were big, but didn't know halocho) when he stated his view degrades him in you eyes?
How do you know he wasn't a misnaged ?
ReplyDelete"Anyway, since when does someone have to be a poisek to write hagohos on Shas?
ReplyDeleteOne doesn't have to be, if he wants to write some ideas for himself. But if one wants to publush chidushim they have to be true! If they are false - while he has a right guess what he wants - publishing them he spreads false Toyro. Isn't it obvious?"
A talmid chochom has a right to publish chiddushim. If people hold that they are wrong, they publish their taanas on him. That is the derech HaToyrah. Evidently you have a problem with the Rashash, nebach, he was a Litvak, you don't like that, but I suspect that your knowledge of gemara is very shvach compared to his.
I think this Yeshiva looks and sounds like a great idea. Is this similar to the Yeshiva called Nishmas which has a webpage? I don't think there is a Yeshiva like this. Mayanot might be similar but it is strictly Lubavich where this one looks like in incorporates all of Chassidus.
ReplyDelete> A talmid chochom has a right to publish chiddushim
ReplyDeleteYou evidently care about rights, but not about what is right. So I see no point in arguing.
Ma'aYanot would be different because it's meant for beginners, aka, a BT Yeshiva. This is for advanced kids, mostly FFB.
ReplyDeleteA yid
ReplyDeleteDid you overdose on the Lubab spiked kool aid?You are tying your brain up in knots with all your apologetics.You claim that the many chasidishe metzuyonim in Litvishe yeshivos are not really metzuyonim and not emmes:So you 'decide' who is 'emmes'?How 'emmesdik'!
Small question:Why is it that all those 'snaggy' full of 'haters' yeshivas all attract so many good chasidic boys, known derisively buy you Lubabs as 'Paylisheh' and these chasidishe boys cannot be found neither in your 'gan eiden hatachtein' nor in your 'gan eiden haelyain' nor anywhere else in your '770'??I guess you have you kool aid answer:'They are not looking for emmes'!! Nu, nu:Biz der vail the 'emmes' we see emanating from Lubab is a major moshiach sheker campaign, a 'Rebbe is Boreinu' campaign a 'untznius' campaign and a major 'off the derech' loss of droves of young Lubavitchers.So much for your 'emmes'.
Small point about your vile attack against the Rasha'sh:In emmesdikkeh yeshivos, torah learners believe in 'kabel ess ho'emmes mmi sheoimoroi'.I does not matter who said something as long as it is true.Btw, you show what an am hooretz you are by saying that the Rasha'sh 'explains the gemorah with mistakes in halocho' you really are a 'beginner',do you want me to show you haw many times Rashi explains a posuk,sheloi alibeh dehilchoso??
Most seforim have various things which may seem wrong, in fact a sefer was published showing some of the greatest achroinim made mistakes too.The chinuch when quoting the Rambams shittah, which he holds is incorrect says 'a great person is judged by the paucity of his mistakes" Every one makes mistakes.Only Hashem does not.
Nachnu ma thinks very highly of himself, despite his humble-sounding name.....
ReplyDeleteThe reason for not learning RaSHaSH is very simple. He was a rich man whose Yiras Shmoayim was in question. He paid the widow Romm and sons, questionable characters themselves, (very close to Haskoloh) to pay for his work to be put into the Vilna Shas. Just because it's in the book doesn't mean it's the word of G-d.
Tzig:
ReplyDeleteThe Rasha'sh does not need you or your ignorant ilk to learn his seforim.Don't.
I know for sure that you have no objective historical source for your sleazy rubbish, you heard it from a am hooretz with a long beard at a alcohol laden farby.At the same time that guy told a long tale about a son of the founder who had to wander all across Russia .Continue to drink kool aid.Continue to write garbage about Artscroll.Continue to promote your Rebbe as moshiach, 'boreinu' smartest man in the u niverse,whatever else you want.Continue to parrot Rambam and Tanya daily.
Lets us also make a cheirem against the Vilna Shas.Our Hungarian friend with his typical bombasity has decided that the Rasha'sh and the Romm family were 'questionable characters' (source?).
ReplyDeleteActually there is an informal ban against any talmud in 770,I searched high and low for a Shas of any kind till I found some in the back.No gemorahs could be seen on any of the tables.Sichos kaidesh, Rambvams everywhere.
For the sake of truth I'll answer the last 2 moronic comments. I heard them way before I heard of certain men of Lithuanian descent, that's for sure. I heard about it as a child in Cheder, way before Lubavitch was a factor in my life, so stop shooting your mouth off, fool.
ReplyDelete'Heard it as a child'
ReplyDeleteWow, now that's 'proof'!
You are a typical Hungarian naar.
The Lubab always tell their stories about how the 'snags' spread rumours, now we have a Lubab wannabee spreading rumours based on his early childhood fantasies (btw, today, after the publishing of 'ne'echas basvach from Assaf, we have historical proof for some rumours, you guys have nada)
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm in a no-win situation. I had to have heard it two days from a Torah-luminary like, say, Yissocher Frand, or Rav Matisyahu Salomon, otherwise it's no good. OK, I'll know for next time, Nachnu. Do I come to you for a total whitewashing of everything I ever heard in my Hungarian Cheyder?
ReplyDeleteThe censor is back in town.
ReplyDeleteKeep it up
I see my comment about Dershowitz honored as guest speaker touched a nerve.Shows that at least you know you are lying to yourself.Propoganda is propoganda, but you know the truth.Good, ich hob schoin moireh gehat
ReplyDeleteHey genius
ReplyDeleteit's bad enough this conversation veered totally off the intended conversation. I don't need some two-bit Snag coming in at the end and starting a Dershowitz conversation. That's why you got the "delete" treatment. Can you understand that?
No I don't understand it, you are a two bit liar.Dershowitz was used to prove that ven ess layntzech far dee Lubab nemt meh der ganov arop.Rash'ash is your problem, eh?????
ReplyDeleteVos vilstu fun Dershowitz? He's a good speaker. He tok English gud, not like some guy from Oholei Teyre. He can inspire people. And somewhere down there, there's a pintele yid. But I can guarantee you, nobody is learning his chidushim on shas, and nobody is calling him "der heiliger RaAD".
ReplyDeleteDershowitz is a mechales shabbos that grew up Orthodox:NOT A TINUK SHENISHBA.Shame on Chabad for making him guest of honour and featured speaker.
ReplyDeleteLubavitch is all about $$$ + power, nothing to do with Judaism
At the same time this jerk curses out a chaheveh rov, r'sHMUEL sHTRASHON chidushei harashah, based on the molesting melamed he had in chayder.Nice.
not that Melamed molested kids, it was another one, and never me, just other, helpless kids, KeYodua.
ReplyDeleteHey Tzig, did you notice Rav Asher Weiss mention "the warmth of mussar" as one of the things he wanted to be part of the new Yeshiva (at app. 4:10 of the video) ? You must have been hitting the roof !
ReplyDeleteHe must have a shtickel snag in him !
Oy vey !!!!
I'm not sure about Reb Asher Weiss. First, I never knew that he spoke English and was Shayech to dealing with such Bochurim. I think they had him speak at Agudah conventions, so maybe the American Moetzes had an affect on him.
ReplyDeleteHirshel Tzig said...
ReplyDelete1) what's up with Reb Zvi Meir, why the need to shake and jump like that?
2) I seem to see some "Lubavitch-looking" young men. (and others who don't look it at all....)
3) do you happen to know the blog he ran?
Tuesday, December 19, 2006 3:26:00 PM
tzibaleh said...
r' tzvi mayer macht mir nervayz.
Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:02:00 PM
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He jumps because his neshama is jumping. I'm not kidding. You have to know him personally.