In this letter - sent to me by A Simple Jew - dated Vov Adar Rishon 5700 Prof. David Yellin tells Dr. Fishel Schneersohn that he enjoyed his story "Chaim Gravitzer" that was printed in the Hatzofeh newspaper. It captured his heart while reading it on Leil Shabbos, and gave him a real "Oneg Shabbos."
Yellin continues to say that he's a Misnaged, and has absolutely no "Netiyah" to Chassidus, and at first glance he opposed this book with my entire being since it spoke the praises of Chassidus and Chassidim. I said to myself "How much longer will our people admire Chassidus,?" and only within that opposition did I continue to read. Yet, the more I read it the more my heart was warmed by the story, and I could not wait for the next edition of the (weekly) paper to come out so that I can continue reading it. When it happened that the continuation was NOT printed in the paper I had great pain. Please continue with this noble work, he says.
Nice, no?
According to Wikipedia, and we have no reason to doubt this, Yellin was a Yerushalyimer Yingel who learned in the Misnagdic/Prushim Cheder Eitz Chaim. Later he "Freid out" and joined Eliezer Ben-Yehudah in his life's work of creating a modern Hebrew language for a modern Hebrew people. I guess one thing he learned in Yerushalayim that he kept was that a "Chossid hut men nit lieb." The letter is up for auction at Ebay.
'Chused hot mehn nit leib'
ReplyDeleteWhy are you showing what a terrible rabble rouser you can sometimes be.
Eitz Chayim taught people to hate other Jews??Is that were R'Shlomo Zalman Auerbach learned to 'hate' chasidim? (though his father was rov of the chasidim in his neigborhood, and was an eynikel of the Toldos, HE STILL SENT HIM THERE)
Do you think that R'Aryeh Levin, mashgiach in Etz Chayim, was the one teaching this hate (though he was known by everybody as being an embodiment of selfless ahavas yisroel)
Actually, there were no chasidic/misnagdic issues in Yerusholayim, there was ONE rov for both the Chasidim and Perushim!
In your zeal to 'show' the world what an 'echteh chused' you have become, you will know try and make trouble everywhere.You remind me of the shvigger who has no brains and nothing smart to say, to hold on to her power and be important she makes sure to make 'trouble' all the time between the couple and family, in that way she gets the attention she craves.
Continue.
Chaim
ReplyDeletedon't get all tied up in knots, there, you may hurt yourself. I changed the Eitz Chaim reference.
Most Chassidim learned in Eitz Chaim, yes, and Reb Aryeh Levin was a Melamed there, yes, but it was a Perushim Cheder. Much like most of Yerushalayim was a Perushim bastion. Only much later did Chassidim have a say in the Kehillah, and have their own Dayan. They also started their own Chevra Kadisha. Most Lubavitcher even sent there before Toras Emes started a Cheder. That was only 40 or so years ago. Reb Shlomo Zalman is a Shvache Rayeh since he was maybe not a Misnaged, but a shvacher chossid.
'Only much later did chassidim have a say in the Kehilla' 'much like most of Yerusholayim was a perushim bastion'
ReplyDelete'Most chassidim learned in Etz Chayim'
Look my friend, you have to to touch up on your history.
Yerusholayim was a kehilla with achdus where people respected rabbonim because of who they were(!) not of which backround they were from.Chassidim had their own yeshiva Chayei Oilom
Chaim
ReplyDeletehow about we both brush up on our history, ok?
your assignment for today is to find out
1) when the first Chassidishe Rov was allowed on the Beis Din,
2)when Eitz Chaim was founded,
3) how many years later Chayei Eylom was founded
4) Why Chassidim lived in Tveryeh, Chevron, and Tsfas and not in Yerushalayim for the most part, at least not until much later
Yerushalayim had Achdus? maybe. But only because the Chassidim behaved.
I want to ask you a question that you don't have to post.Why are you not discussing a word about the achdus convention in Eretz Yisroel, about Ginsbergs speach, about Yoels interview in Kfar Chabad, actually about the whole 'Rebbe is alive' matsav and the Meshichisten.I'm not saying this as an insult, but you guys have so much to fix in your own houses so why the focus on some fried out apikoires who may have learned in a 'litviseh' yeshiva , and the other stuff you find unter der erd.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be fascinating to understand where the 'Rebbe chay vekayom' comes from, what different Lubavitchers think about the idea, and if they are against it, what do they plan on doing?
Don't be like the shvigger, who causes trouble because she is short in the intellectual department.
Chaim
ReplyDeletethe point of the post was not to highlight the fact that David Yellin learned in Eitz Chaim, I only found that out at the last second, when I read the Wiki piece. The letter, where a Freie professor calls himself a Misnaged, and where the story he mentions is Chaim Gravitzer, authored by Fishel Schneersohn, is what caught my attention.
I don't like Meshichism to say the least. If you didn't know that till now you do now. There are plenty of others that discuss this, and although I know it'll bring lots of hits to my site I don't like to drag Chabad through the mud. I did discuss the Rosh Chodesh Kislev fiasco. I try to keep my edge here.
Now go and do the homework I gave you, and stop insulting my shvigger.
Reb Gedalya Kenig ztz"l said, that in his youth, Yerushalmi misnagdim did not count chasidim for the minyan. He could be pretty sharp about misnagdim.
ReplyDeleteI mean that he said truth about the issue straight as is. Once when he was asked, how could the churbon in Europe happen, while tzadikim brought such tikunim into the world, he answered, that one thing is to bring it into the world, and the other is to accept and to use it. Many didn't want.
ReplyDelete> Actually, there were no chasidic/misnagdic issues in Yerusholayim, there was ONE rov for both the Chasidim and Perushim!
ReplyDeleteJust add, that prushim were pushing and wanted to dominate everything (today too). This caused the fact, that many chasidim today share their mentality and values, which aren't at all chasidic. Russian chasidim had hard time with it, while hungarian blended into this prushim system much faster. But it affected all unfortunately!
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteThe Schvigger I'm insulting is proverbial, I don't know your schviggs...........It could be any loudmouth who can't get attention based on merit and has to cause fights to get what they crave
Your comment about not dragging Chabad is misguided in my opinion.The reason Chabad ended up with this problem on their hands is because they 'did not want to drag Chabad through the mud' so you let is fester for 13 years.Today it's too late
no, Chaim, the reason this has festered for 13 years is not because of people like me. The situation could've been remedied without publicizing it like the others do, but nobody was interested in doing it. Either because of misplaced "Ahavas Yisroel" or because of internal power squabbles. Others fight over position, not principle, Here at least the future is at stake, and that's reason enough to fight for it. But people I guess are too busy. Oh well.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you articulate your thoughts on this and post it.Let's see what others say, especially in light of Yoels interview in Kfar Chabad
ReplyDeleteEnded up with the problem of Chai vekaiam movement? It's because in our "enlightened" day and age we can not lock up and medicate obviously disturbed inidividuals against their will.
ReplyDeleteOther issues are up for debate.
Hmmm
ReplyDeleteI meant to thank you for yesterday's "You're a diplomatic hoot" comment. I AM supposed to thank you, right? It is a good thing, correct?
When was the chasidishe beis din( I think there was a shuvaks there) in yerushalem established?
ReplyDelete''It's because in our "enlightened" day and age we can not lock up and medicate obviously disturbed inidividuals against their will.''
ReplyDeleteWe are not talking about guys who have to be medicated, we are talking about a growing group of people and especially young kids who have been brainwashed and are now bochrim/sem grads. We all know it but we cannot acknowledge the truth
Last week I received a call from a friend I grew up who is not Lubavitch and with whom I have not spoken in several years.
ReplyDeleteAfter catching up on family news, he says to me, What is going on with you guys in Lubavitch? Are you totally off your rockers?
I asked him what he was reffering to and he leads me to various internet sites like www.rebbegod.blog and other famous Mashiach sites and I was shocked to see this
In as much as I like to think I know what is going around, I honestly dont have time for researching all these "shtusim"
So I said to my friend, Listen to me, these are a few sick and demented people who are not able to deal with the reality of the situation and miss the Rebbe very much, but they do not represent mainstream Chabad, etc.
He responded that if that was true, Chabad has a moral obligation to come out against them no less than Satmar and Hisachdus cameout against the Neturei Karta once they went to Iran, etc.
I did not have an answer on this.
I tried explaining that there is a silent majority in Chabad that is neutral and just dont have time for Machlokes, some follow the Meshichist because they think that is the more powerful group and others follow the non Meshichist group because they think that group will ultimately prevail, but in truth, most people are not fanatics at all and that Chabad is represented by the thousands of Shluchim around the world and not by a handful of Baalei Teshuva and Erev Rav that make all this noise.
He said that in olden times, if a crazy individual wanted to make himself heard, he had to run and shout in the streets and everyone who saw him knew they were looking at some stupid fool, but today, all they need is a computer and modem and before you know it millions of people are reading their nonsense (rebbegodblog) for example and have no idea who stands behind it, etc.
His response was immediate and does not sit well.
He said, that if the Mosdos like Oholei Torah, Nshei Chabad etc push and indoctrinate "Yechi" into all their programs and stationary, that gives legitmacy to the "so called few Meshugoyim" so I can not actually say that these crazies represent a very small minority, etc.
I tried explaining him based on Meshicta Shabbos that Talmidim always thought that if the Moshiach was someone alive in their generation that it had to be their Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva, etc. I told him the story of the Rebbe and the Rashag concerning a Gvir who had previously donated handsomely to the Rashag when the Frierdiker Rebbe was alive but was no inclined to continue after Yud Shevat. The Rashasg called the Rebbe and asked what to respond and the Rebbe said that he should tell the Gvir that only the physical body changed but the Neshoma is the same.
I tried explaining the video clips he pointed out to me in which the Rebbe is shouting Ma Zaroh BaChaim Af Hu etc and many other online videos promoted by the Meshichtim in a manner in which we all believe as true Lubavitch Chasidim that the Rebbe Havtochos will come true and that Moshiachs arrival is imminent and as Chassidim we yearn for the Rebbe to lead us out of Galus.
In essence, this is the problem in that every Lubavitcher bpnimius nafsho years for the Rebbe and knows that the Rebbes Nevuah and havtocho od hinei hinei hu bah is giong to happen any second.
At the same time, we differ on how to bring the Rebbes message of Geulah to the world.
It is way past due, but it is time for the main camps to get together and compromise and what is acceptable al pi hatorah and even if we agree to disagree, we can still live and respect each other without accepting the other persons view and take on all the various Sichos, and at the same time, come out together in full foce against those who expouse views that are clearly Apikusrus.
For whatever it is worth, my simple explanation on the entire matter is that the Neshoma of Moshiach which was embodied in the Frierdiker Rebbe remained alive after Yud Shvat and that is why the Rebbe would go to the Tsion of the Frierdiker Rebbe but still say in every Sicha that the Rebbe the Shver is the Nasi and HU CHAI etc without contradiction. After Yud Shvat, that Neshoma transformed itself into the Rebbe just as the Rebbe himself told the Rashag.
After Gimel Tamuz, those wishing to speak to the Rebbe have but one address and that is by going to the Ohel, but it still does not take away from the fact the same Neshoma of Moshiach was carried over from the Alter Rebbe all the way through to the Rebbe is still here with us and dpending on us to do what the Rebbe asked of us so that Moshiach can reveal himself.
Think about it and you will see that this explanation can answer almost any question or Sicha and Maamor that people will show in trying to prove their point.
And most important, let us all remember how many times the Rebbe gave out Kuntres Hechaltzu in the last few years before the Histalkus and let us concentrate more on Ahavas Yisroel that in Kaviyochol proving ourselves to be the true Chasidim.
If we have any truth to ourselves, our first obligation is to bring honor and Kavod to the Rebbe and Lubavitch and for us to set an example of Achdus for the rest of the world and only then can we hope for the Hisgalus of Moshiach, NOW AMEN!
Going back to the start of these posts, I'd like to add, what I heard once from Leibl Groner in the name of the Satmar Ruv (!):"Three kinds of people can't be Chassidim:Einiklach,Gabboim and Yerushalmim." Yerushalmim are Yerushalmim first. That's why you will see P'rushim dressed like chassidim and Chassidim learning in litvishe places and that's part of the beauty of Yerushalayim.
ReplyDeleteThe Toras Chessed...
ReplyDeleteThe Toras Chesed was the first Chassidishe Rov? If so that's pretty late in the picture. Whatr happened till he arrived in Yerushalayim?
ReplyDeleteshliach in cali, the refuah kodem lamakah - Yoel Kahn's interview this week with Kfar Chabad trashing the chai vekayam element publicly.
ReplyDeleteAs far as other Mosdos being responsible, in other words yenikas hachitzonim: Is Judaism as a whole responsible for the emergence of Xtianity? After all, it is based on our concepts of Torah MiSinai, Nevuah, etc. - perhaps we are to blame.
Every tzadik has a behino of Moshach in himself. And it is NOT our job to speculate who is who regarding this. DO YOUR JOB properly, and leave for Moshach to do his.
ReplyDeleteUch oon vey that we have to parade around that even R'Yoel is against the 'chai vekayom' garbage.Think for a moment:Lubavitch, the thinking Chassudus needs to be told that the Rebbe died???
ReplyDeleteReb Shlomo Zalman's father shtammed from where? Whose chassidim were they?
ReplyDelete