(a meeting of the MGH, when they actually WERE something!)
During a late supper this week last week's weekend English HaModia caught my attention. They were still discussing the proposed ban on El Al and a meeting of the American MGH of the AI that was to decide on joining their Israeli counterparts in signing the ban. Now before you jump all over me for going after the Gedolim I would ask you to hear me out, and see that this is not just another Agudah-bashing session, but an objective look at the issue of who's running American Yiddishkeit these days. I also don't plan on bringing Lubavitch into this discussion, believe it or not, since it's totally irrelevant to what we're about to discuss.
The article stated (IIRC, I'm doing this from memory) that present at the meeting in Yeshivas Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin were the following Rabbonim:
Reb Aron Schechter (R"Y Chaim Berlin)
Reb Avrohom Chaim Levin (R"Y Telshe-Chicago)
Reb Shmuel Kamenecki (R"Y Philadelphia)
Reb Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld (of Mattersdorf)
Reb Yaakov Perlow (of Novominsk)
Amongst the Choshu've Askonim of course.
I look at the list and wonder to myself:
1) Is Torah Jewry completely made up of Yeshivishe and "Litvish/Modern" Jews? Are these the only Jews that need to be represented? Is no Chassidishe Rov suitable to sit on that esteemed dais? Sorry people, the Mattersdorfer Rov doesn't count as Chassidish, and he represents almost nobody these days. In Eretz Yisroel Ger plays a vital if not overbearing role in all things Agudah, why not in the USA? I know that all Hungarian Rabbonim are closely tied with Satmar and won't risk joining, but what about non-Hungarians like Bobov, Vizhnitz (Bnei Brak) and others, why aren't they asked to join? And where are the real Litvishe Gedolim, why aren't they on the council of sages, I mean Yidden like Reb Shmuel Berenbaum, of course, Yidden that saw and shepped from the pre-war greats.
2) Are we to really believe that American Yankees like Levin, Schechter, and Kamenecki, Talmidei Chachomim that they may be, understand enough about Israeli politics to issue a ban against traveling on an airline? I'd be shocked if any of them spoke more than a Bais Yaakov Hebrew, and could understand the intricate details involved in dealing with politicians, especially Israeli ones. Why then would they Bichlal touch the issue, just to show the world?
Oh, what I'd give to be a fly on the wall at one of these meetings, it would be a sight to behold. You'd figure that the Einei Ho'eidoh in America would have a litte self-respect, but I guess not.
Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky's Hebrew is beautiful.
ReplyDeleteYou assume that Bobov and Vizhnitz were not asked to join. This may be true. On the other hand, it may not.
If the Gerrer Rebbe were in the States, I have not the slightest doubt that he would be given the most honored position in the MGH. But he isn't. It could be that his views -- and those of others in Israel -- are solicited and and viewed with the respect they deserve.
Eini Hoeida: Krinsky Groner Simpson
ReplyDeleteThe Gerrer Rebbe rules the Agudah behind the scenes. Everyone knows that.
ReplyDeleteThe strange thing is that they look up to him like he is some kind of holy person.
Puleeeze!
And Reb Shmuel Berenbaum (may he live until 120) would not waste his precious time sitting in a room with the Novaminsker.
The real question is how come the Agudah doesnt just close it's doors and move on.
Noone listens to anything that they say.
They don't represent any of the Bnei Torah (whom they claim to represent).
Take a ride to Lakewood. Stop your car in front of Bais Medrash Gavoah. Get out and approach the first of the 3500 guys sitting and learning. Ask "does the Agudah represent you"? Does the Agudah represent ANYONE whom you know"?
Vehamayvin Yavin.
SHUT THEM DOWN.
They represent a few bored, fat, overgrown, rich, snobby, looserish Baalei Batim.
The Agudah is CONTROLLED by Baalei Batim.
REMBER: Agudah = Daas Baalei Batim.
NOT Daas Torah.
The TRUE Torah giants of yester-year are GONE.
"The TRUE Torah giants of yester-year are GONE."
ReplyDeleteThis may be true today, but it has been said in every generation.
> You assume that Bobov and Vizhnitz were not asked to join. This may be true. On the other hand, it may not.
ReplyDeleteBobov and Vizhnitz today aren't too far from Satmar. Look at it as at a Hungarishe whole. Anyway, those who met don't represent everyone at all. Just themselves.
Snag6, cynacism is good, but too much of any good thing is bad.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is to a degree you are correct but the way you present your thoughts ensures that others don't take them seriously.
The fact is that agudah does offer Daas Torah to the Balei Baatim of the world more so than the Kollel guys. consider that of the thousands and thousands of guys who go through yeshivah only a percentage go onto long term kollel.
Who else shuld be at these meetings, as was stated they are all Tulmidei chochim (whether you lik it or not) and they are also identities within the community.
To Anon,
ReplyDeleteMaybe in a Hicktown in Ohio, but ask any balabous that davens in Kol Shimshon from Lakewood, the Aguda doesnt exist in their worldview.Their Godol is basicaly Eliashev,Stienman and Reb Chaim Kanievski.
Maybe in a Hicktown in Ohio, but ask any balabous that davens in Kol Shimshon from Lakewood, the Aguda doesnt exist in their worldview.Their Godol is basicaly Eliashev,Stienman and Reb Chaim Kanievski.
ReplyDeleteHaving davened there myself in the last 5 months, I can assure you that a lage number of the mispalelim are Philly Tulmidim). Their Gedolim include Rav Mattisyahu Saloman (as opposed to Mattisyahu the Reggee singer), Rav Arieh Malkiel Kotler, Rav Dovid Feinstien. Reb Shmuel, the Novominsker, Rav Aaron Shechter. The Israel based Gedolim that you mentioned are definitely held in the highest regard (and are in direct communications with the American Rabbonim), but Americans always feel more comfortable with American rabbonim. Have you ever thought why NO Israel based Gedolim have ever looked to moving to Lakewood etc... Even Rabbi Saloman of Gateshead England found he needed to 'tread some water' when first arriving in Lakewood.