Photo by Acheinu
It seems like everywhere I turn now I see stories about wonderful Kiruv work being done by "Kiruv professionals" (what in the world?) somewhere in the world. This week's English HaModia was full of it, from Kiruv at Rutgers by some guy, to Lag BaOmer barbeques by Russian Kolelim, to a "Kinus HaShluchim" (for lack of a better term) of Kiruv Kolelim, to a whole insert singing the praises of Acheinu, an unheard of organization that already put thousands of kids in Yeshivos! (how do they manage that before starting?!) I know that G-d has a sense of humor, but this is way beyond funny. Here I am trying to be part of 'Klal Yisroel" by reading the "Torah" newspapers of our time, and all it does is have the opposite effect, it makes me hate myself for so missing the boat on this. After all, not only is the Torah firmly entrenched in Lakewood and Bene Beraq, but even Kiruv, real Kiruv blessed by the Gedolim, is also done by them, and with unbeleievable results. How could I miss the signs?!
According to the brochure distributed by Acheinu in this week's HaModia, Thousands of invisible children are now learning in invisible Yeshivos with great humility and without the PR and propaganda machines that run Lubavitch. They don't eat and don't shop in stores. They never attend shuls for fear of attracting attention to themselves and the Kiruv professionals that brought them back to Torah, and they never marry and start families for the same reason. They're to be commended. And all this was done by a rich guy in Toronto who decided that this is what should be happening now; Kiruv. He started with Dirshu and went on to Acheinu, and all the Gedolim snapped to attention upon seeing a guy with some money from Toronto. Truly "rebbe mechabed ashirim." Who knows what he'll do next? maybe it'll be some kind of Shidduch initiative with instant results!
The only other similar phenomenons that I've seen in my lifetime are the Nechomas Yisroel Organization, which according to their most recent ad campaign, has placed TWELVE THOUSAND CHILDREN in Yeshivos, and the incomparable Oorah Kiruv Rechokim. Nechomas Yisroel's claim is all about kids who would've otherwise gone to Public Schools. Talk about "Pulling a fast one," This goes beyond fast. If there were 120 kids placed in yeshivos by them it would be saying a lot. And the propaganda that went on these years, with the "75 dollars saves a Neshoma," as if any Yeshivah would take a Bukhari/Russian kid into their school for seventy five bucks, makes Boro Park and Flatbush Jews look as gullible as ever. But that's all it takes these days to get yourself on the map; campaign as if you've been in business for thirty years, and you needn't show any actual results, just pictures of young men with their arms around the shoulders of dark-looking kids.
Oorah appealed to the more sensible side of us Jews; they promised us vacations and silver Menorahs, computers, and 800 dollar baby strollers and we were never the wiser. They must be doing something good if they can offer such prizes for a five dollar raffle ticket, no? We never asked the tough questions; like what do you ACTUALLY do that I should spend my Maaser money with your organization? Or where are all these children that you supposedly placed in Yeshivos? Or where are the families that all became frum from that supposed seminar you offered a few years back? Those silly Lubavitchers, with all of their picture-taking and websites have nothing on these Acheinu/Oorah/Nechomas Yisroel guys. Even Aish and Or Someach seem to be dwarfed in comparison to the Acheinu powerhouse with its "Beis Chizuk" network. The trifecta here has taught us a new lesson in the art of advertising and marketing your product, an approach that has yet to be picked up upon even in this nation's higer institutions of learning.
I have a subscription to Hamodia, but like you, after reading it sometimes I feel like it is writing about another people.
ReplyDeleteGuys:Don't read the Hamodia, they don't need to be held hostage by the two and a half Chabadsker readers. (same goes for Mishpacha btw)
ReplyDeleteRegarding the post:I've never seen such pure unadulterated hate!Is the reason the Tzig stoops so low because these organizations are 'competition' with Chabad??
I feel that the Tzig and his fellow Chabad cronies would much rather secular kids remain secular than become non Lubavitcher shomrei mitvos.Sad commentary, it seems tthat all the supposed Chabad kiruv is very self serving.Hopefully it only the tzig and his failed shluchim cronies, those guys who were never chosen to go out there,not a universal Chabad sentiment
I read the Hamodia because no non-frum newspaper enters my home. What else should I read; the Yated?
ReplyDeleteVolvy: what you feel is wrong, you're confusing it with a Satmarer who's kid goes off the derech who'd rather his kid stays frei than gets Niskarev through a Lubavitcher.
Is nobody willing to address the issue discussed here without flying off on a tangent about what I'd rather do and how hateful I am?
what issue?
ReplyDeleteThese guys are bumping up the figures....as does Chabad.
Maybe everyone looks at a Kiruv success differently. If you ask a chabad shaliach what success means....it means putting a pair of teffilin on a guy once a week - that's successful kiruv. If you ask the guys at acheinu, maybe their success is measured by how many actual kids are in yeshivos
bottom line....you are willing to accept that Chabad does this Tremendous job and the other groups are all exaggerating their true success. Sounds pretty biased and nonsensical to me. The fact is that all the other groups of Kiruv sit under umbrella groups watched and adminsitered (religiously) by governing bodies of Gedolei Yisroel. Unfortunately, since the passing of the Rebbe - Chabad has no such direction...each chabad house does what suites it and
'anything' goes.
Let's just accept that any additional Yiddishkite for any Jew is an achievement and be happy that another Jew got some Torah today.
Or......
is it all about the power and the money????????
Mr anonymous
ReplyDeleteyou seem to be intelligent, so I guess it's me who's unclear in this thread.
The point here is that what we see now is organizations that suddenly sprout out of the ground claiming tremendous success in the past. Thousands in Yeshivos, Hundreds of frum families made, etc. This, to me, seems quite impossible. I'm not saying that placing kids in Yeshivah is not a sign of success, why in the world would I ever say that?! All I'm saying is that I suspect a great big lie here!!!!
Nobody ever heard of these people, nobody in THEIR circles, that is. So what's with the grandiose claims of BT's etc?
seems to me that every orginization is counting the same people. Guy goes to a Chabad house, has tuition paid through Nechomas Yisreol after Orah convinced him to etc.
ReplyDeleteReb Tzig Du bizt a toiizent perzent gerecht.
ReplyDeleteEveryday a new kiruv group is started this one is mekarev redheads the other lefties, the 3rd is mekarev Bukharian jews in South Bklyn, the 4th is mekarev Rumanian jews in Ashdod, and so on . Yet the Israeli election results on anational and local scale reveal very little success for the frum parties. Hey where are all the BT's ?
But you know these groups are important they give the Bnai torah jobs as they print statinoary get a haskomah from an old aged Rosh yeshiva in israel and the Nasi of the American Aguda. men klaybt gelt , men leyft arum and men geyt slofen.
The yated is even worse.
Tzig, you may think that it pains me to do this (it doesn't), but I agree with your general sentiments here and enjoyed the writing (did you get an editor?). I read the acheinu inset cover to cover hoping that everything that was written was true. It was an exciting promo piece. There is a general rule to measure anyones 'success' in kiruv. If there are no real puddles of blood and sweat(mesiras nefesh)nor a sincere ideology/dogma motivation to bring a yid closer, probably not much is getting accomplished. its just a fact of life. Organizations have little impact on peoples lives, people do. And if someone is shvitzing, something is probably getting done.
ReplyDeletePS>
Its funny how the guy you called smart above accepts all claims in the acheinu literature yet comfortably derides lubav and its efforts.
see what I mean, N? even when agreeing with me you needed to get a jab in at me. (the quip about the editor.)
ReplyDeletethe quip about getting an editor can be read as a compliment as well. life is tricky that way..
ReplyDeleteAs I heard from some 1,when Satamar williamsburgh split in 2 they needed immediatly 15 to 20 buses and buildings, so where are the added buses and buildings from the 1000's of nechomas yisroel kids,
ReplyDeleteI know about 2,1) Friedmans own beautiful house 2)his fathers nice shul,
but it still has no room for the 1000 of kids.
It's interesting to see how almost all snags here agree that most of these 'kiruv' orgs. are basically bluffers, yet these orgs. are all stuffing their pockets auction after auction, who do you think the money comes from, Hirshel?
ReplyDeleteLet's put a practical face on it. I showed up and lived in a community in the past with a "Shalom Torah" center. This is an 'outreach' effort by Lakewood, where they set up a school & shul, plopped down in a fry area.
ReplyDeleteThe primary difference between this and a Chabad house was, they couldn't get anyone to actually go there without funding the thing. So, 100% of the infrastructure expenses, the rav and principles salaries, are paid out of Lakewood.
Now, when I arrived, the thing had been going for about 15 years. They were as successful as your average Chabad house, and had mekarved 30 families. Here's where it gets funny...
Most of those families kids went on, B"H, to mainstream yeshiva high schools, and on to YU. They came home, with smicha (B"H). The whole community is frum, the kids are rabbonim.
THE PLACE IS STILL ADVERTISING REGULARLY FOR DONATIONS FOR "the poor uneducated Jews who desperately need the light of Torah".
Oh, and Lakewood still calls the shots in the local shul and school. No local control or community involvement. Permanent underclass.
The people that work there, good people doing good stuff. But when I got a tzadakah flyer for them, I almost fell out of my chair.
(This is first hand knowledge about 1, only 1, of these centers. The others may need every dollar.)
Tzig:
ReplyDeleteCan you share some choice quotes from Gedolim of the past generations that were highly critical of the modern Kiruv approach?
I think the non Lubavitcher communities reason for kiruv are
ReplyDelete1. Jobs . These positions offer jobs that are appropriate for Bnai Torah. They can keep wearing their white shirts and rabbinic garb all the while not doing much.
2. By doing "Kiruv" many of these Bnai Torah give themselves the Chizuk they bdly need for the correctness of their own spiritual lifestyle.
I once asked a guy into kiruv, why its imoportant to make all Jews frum, he looked at me with disgust, but did not answer me.
Obviously I am not against Kiruv, but could not we all be into kiruv in our daily activities.
I sometimes sit in the local park here in WH on Friday afternoons and my beard attracts Jews looking for Judaism , I talk to them and send them to hopefully the right place a shul, yeshiva a good book etc.
Schneour
ReplyDeleteWhy are you picking on the non Lubavitcher communities saying the reasons they do it are for jobs and to strngthen their own convictions.The exact same thing can be said about Lubavitchers and even more since Shlichus is viewed as the ultimate in Lubavitch, many go so they can say the are shluchim, make their parents proud,prove their self worth for friends, etc.
The truth is probably a mixture of altruism and necessity:These people believe in kiruv but also realize the need for parnosah and strengthening themselves, what is known as 'mitalmidei yoiser mekulam' one learns more from his disciples than from anyone else.
This is great! A bunch of shmucks who never did an ounce of Kiruv in their lives sitting around talking about how Mekarvim [most of whom are hardworking and seriously ehrlicher people and don't have time to blog] are a bunch of cheats, losers and liars.
ReplyDeleteGet a life people - you're the losers it seems.
I did more Kiruv by the time I was 21 than most of these Kiruv guys will do in their lifetimes.
ReplyDelete"I did more Kiruv by the time I was 21 than most of these Kiruv guys will do in their lifetimes."
ReplyDeleteAnd then you took up blogging? Get off it - you're pathetic! Stop criticizing hard working and ehrlicher people and do something worthwhile instead of talking about your achievements between the ages 15-21
make up your mind:
ReplyDeleteIs the problem that I blog, or that I never did Kiruv, or that I did nothing since the age of 21?
'You did more kiruv by the age you were 21 than most of these guys will do in a lifetime'
ReplyDeleteWho is going to argue with your very 'objective' assesment.
All those merits went down the toilet when you said one bit of slander on rabbonim.
You want pictures? written affidavits? Will that be enough to get my samchus back?
ReplyDelete"Is the problem that I blog, or that I never did Kiruv, or that I did nothing since the age of 21?"
ReplyDeleteStop being asinine and assuming you're at the center of the universe. My comment was aimed at the commenters in general who sit and criticize all the decent folks in Kiruv. You are one of them but not the whole story.
Your claim that you did more kiruv by 21 than most in a lifetime does nothing to butress your critical position. - so what? you did some kiruv when you were a pisher. therefore you criticize and encourage wholesale criticism of hundreds of people?
Perhaps if they also stopped doing something meaningful and took up blogging at 21 they'd have plenty to say in return.
Bottom line is that you wrote this post probably without thinking. You made a point that has little to no validity and randomly smeared alot of good people [chabatzers and otherwise]. If you're okay with that - keep on. If you've grown some since you left kiruv and realized that there's no point in being so critical of others, maybe you'll think twice before doing it again.
You misread me. I'm not sure it's not intentionally.
ReplyDeleteI criticize not the doers, but the ones who do nothing, have never been heard of, and yet claim astounding success! These organizations that I mention: NY, Achainu, and Oorah, have never been heard of save for their ad campaigns.
I didn't drop Kiruv, I got married.
And i still pish, only in a designated area, however. You know? the can.
1) You cannot compare the M.O. of Chabad and that of the snags. Chabad does minimal fundraising within their own community, look at the Mintz brothers. one went to beverly hills, one went to aspen, and one went to a similar locale near Miami. They set up shop attract a number of wealthy constituents, make them feel good about their spirituality without any pressure CH"V and make a nice living off their shirayim. In chabad most of the fundraising is done by Yeshivos and G'machs.
ReplyDelete2) I personally believe that oorah raffles are scammy, i have no reason to believe this, but i nevertheless get that feeling from them. it may have something to do with their plastic smile and clean cut suits and the fact that they are generally MIA. or maybe it's just their slimy snagness rubbing me the wrong way. either way i don't believe they give out any prizes.
3)I agree with the beheime dakke: The structure of the snag world with its all or nothing deal and its general close-mindedness makes it hard to believe that they are "mekarev" anyone. I personally wouldn't have anything to do with a slimy "kiruv proffessional"
"I criticize not the doers, but the ones who do nothing, have never been heard of, and yet claim astounding success! These organizations that I mention: NY, Achainu, and Oorah, have never been heard of save for their ad campaigns."
ReplyDeleteHere's where you're wrong. If you were actually still involved in Kiruv you'd know what they do. I for one, am not actively involved but I do occasionally have some doings with kiruv. I personally know of quite a few individuals who attend yeshivah only bcause Oorah funds it. They are not even in the NY area. I know of many kids who've gone to their boys and girls camps. It's not that hard to find out what they do. It's a heckuva lot easier to criticize I guess then to find out the facts.