A response to Circus Tent: Az M'lebt derlebt men....
Ok, here it is from the mouth of the "ferd" himself. It's interesting how some of you (especially the illustrious Rav Hirshel) are so quick to pass judgement on people they have never met. Hirshel, you have no idea what we're about, what HM is about and - if I'd have to go by what seems to be your bitter hatred of your fellow Jews - you likely haven't a clue what Chassidus is about. Ironic then that you find yourself so qualified to perform such a thorough analysis of all these 3 subjects, no? But at the end of the day what you say about me and the other Teiheads in either direction is fine and we likely owe you one for the free PR. What does bother me though, hirshel, is that you are so quick to condemn an entire international frum community assuming that they are "at fault" for the actions we take and highly recommend us for frum kids to listen to.
The truth of the matter is that we don't even recommend OURSELVES to frum kids (unless they are kids who have already been turned off by people like you, Hirshel, and are starting to get involved in the Goyishe HM scene and need to be redirected to Nichoyach). As far as the Chabad Kehilla, they tolerate us just like they do the Meshugener who sits in the corner talking to himself and laughing at imaginary things on the ceiling, i.e. unlike you they are not willing to discount us as Yidden just because we have flaws. To Chabad, the choices in my particular scenario are likely something like: is it better to have a guy who keeps Shabbos, Kashrus, Taharas Hamishpacha, etc. but has a flaw of being involved with the HM world or is it better to push him away and announce him "Oys Yid". Luckily, Chabad goes with the former approach while you would seem to favor the latter.
I bless you Hirshel that the Eibershter not judge you as you judge others.
Mendel of Teihu
Man, I feel so alone. Now even Lubavitchers are telling me that I hate all Jews!
ReplyDeleteThis IS depressing.
The good news is that I have once again been totally misunderstood. This time by a peace, love, and happiness kind of guy. Goes with the territory.
go mendel!
ReplyDeleteet tu, N?
ReplyDeleteOne Teihu is worth a minyan Matasyahus and a mezimen of Tzigs ...
ReplyDeleteNice blog btw, I've been following it for some time. Don't necessarily agree with your views(nor expected to find myself on it heh heh), but you do allow for an open and brutally honest exchange of opinions wrong or right. I must also commend your attention to detail (such as italicizing the foreign words which I didn't do in my original reply).
ReplyDeleteMy apologies if I misunderstood you in some way (as my guitarist said about you "I never know what his opinion actually is")on the particular post, but I stick to my guns and I was also refering to the linked matisyahu post. I have issues with Matisyahu not for his style of music but for collaborating with a missionary band, but:
1 - who am I to judge? maybe i can be considered to be collaborating with the "satanic" heavy metal "cults"
2 - even if my gripe with Matisyahu is valid, I don't hold Chabad at fault for "creating the monster" so to speak. Aderaba, they accept him as they do me and try to turn us into better Jews through love, as the Rebbe Rayat"z is quoted in Hayom Yom for Chof Iyar "With patience and friendliness we can prevail in all things, with G-d's help. With a denigrating attitude toward others and inflating our own importance we lose everything, G-d forbid."
I don't know, maybe some chabad Rabbi screwed you in some way (hopefully in a figurative manner of speech), maybe you have some other gripe with Lubavitch. But let's face it - there were Bobovers who acted in a wrong way when they were fighting about Rebbe Naftuli Tsvi ZT"L's rightful successor. But these were the actions of individuals and their being wrong doesn't disqualify the entire Bobov Community and philosophy from being "al pi Torah".
btw, let me save you the trouble of criticizing my long-windedness. Let's face it, I write lyrics for a band with an average song length of 7.5 minutes...did you really expect me to keep it short?
Heshy
ReplyDeleteSorry for being honest here, but you sound like the offspring of a marriage between a Satmar and Lubavitcher who inherited the negative traits of both:You have the negativity of Satnar aka 'kanous' sans their chesed (cuz you always make light of it)with the Chbsker meshugassen, sans their ahavas yisroel.
C'mon now, even I, the snag is less judgemental than you..............
Lay off the freakin' negativity, post some sweet historical pics or whatever.
(maybe it's hmmm,... so stop hanging around him so much)
Mendel I'll get to your long-winded comment soon, PG.
ReplyDeleteSnagged! My parents are both very, very, Hungarian. I don't see where protesting here against a phenomenon, never before seen in Lubavitch, and one of the lowest forms of musical entertainment, makes me a "Kanoyi!"
"Snagged! My parents are both very, very, Hungarian. I don't see where protesting here against a phenomenon, never before seen in Lubavitch, and one of the lowest forms of musical entertainment, makes me a "Kanoyi!"
ReplyDeleteI don't think he was refering to this incedent in spesific
Sheichet
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I follow you:
You're upset at me for what?
How did you guys get turned on to this in the 1st place that you now play in a band and do this?
Are you telling me that Chassidus has got something to do with you playing "kick-ass" heavy metal? That you save guys that are already into this by keping them frum?
where have I proclaimed you to be "Oys Yid" like you accuse me?
ReplyDeleteWhere do you see me blaming an entire international community?
wow! the energy, i can feel it!
ReplyDeleteyou must be a big maven in the Goyishe music scene to be able to discern that Heavy Metal is one of the lowest forms. you obviously miss that todays "chassidic music" is nothing more than coverted Goyishe 70's music.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually not "upset" at you for anything. I have better things to do with my life than be upset about an outcast shmoe who thinks he's got the answers and who is lucky that the internet exists because in real life in the real world no one will give him the time of day.
mendel
ReplyDeletetry and address the points I made without making personal attacks that may or may not be true. I have heard some HM back in the day, and I know that even today's Jewish Music is not as bad as that. The hoarse yelling is enough to scare me off. (Most HMers have serious issues, with the black dress and makeup.)
You're right Hirshel, personal attacks are wrong and I apologize. I've been reading this blog long enough that I know that while your points may not always be right, ultimately your quest is for the truth.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to address the various points, but note that I don't always have an abundance of time so I will have to address one thing at a time...
Let me start with the last one...I don't know which HM you've listened to, but it is not all about "hoarse screaming". Granted, some HM is (depending on sub-genre), but usually the bands with the screaming is just the result of a lack of talent. Then there is the "death metal growl", which btw actually takes skill and must be done "properly" - it's definitely an "aquired taste" even when done right but most "death vocalist" like their metalcore counterparts do it wrong and do it because they can't sing. some bands use it exclusively, we use it very sparingly for effect here and there. Then there is "thrash" which generally also has alot of screaming but is mostly listened to for the guitar playing. However we are not a metalcore band, nor a deathmetal band, nor a thrash band although some of our influence comes from the latter two.
Then there is classic metal, prog metal, power metal, pop metal, hard rock, glam metal, hard alternative and grunge which have produced arguabely some of the most highly trained, capable and talented vocalists around (as compared to any other mainstream genre). These genres are closer to where we fall in. I will refrain from recommending bands that fall under these categories because my policy is not to promote Goyishe music styles (including my own) to people who aren't already involved in that world.
If I had to assign us a genre I would have to say we are a hard-rock/power metal band. Most of our vocals are (or are supposed to be heh heh) of the higher, soaring, projected, understandable type.
In the end though this is not about my music being good. If you think it sucks and would rather listen to Jewish music, the more power to you. My point here is not to justify my music nor to justify claims that I'm not doing the right thing by making that music. My point is that it is not an acceptable thing in the Lubavitch mainstream not among regular Shluchim and not among BT Shluchim, and they still don't promote this at Hadar Torah.
The only people who make any use of this in the Lubavitch world is Shluchim on campuses and they only use it to attract people who are already listening to much filthier stuff than Teihu (if you can imagine such a thing) in the hope that they can then be sent to Hadar Torah and be taught Niggunim so that they don't listen to the stuff they listen to now and hopefully so that they don't even listen to Teihu.
Also I just want to point out that those who are familiar with the Lubavitch "system" know that BT Shluchim don't make no policies. The people making the policies are the same old guard that made them all along or their children. Just as in probably any other group of Chassidim and the Italian mob in Lubavitch the power is kept in the family.
anyway gotta go. Have a good Shabbos, Hirshel and everyone else.
Mendel: I have enjoyed reading your comments as someone else who has a "taam" for heavy metal.
ReplyDeletewhat in the world do mild-mannered spiritoal people like yourself see in Heavy metal, in any of the countless genres that Mendel mentioned here? I just don't see NORMAL people enjoying any of it.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to shake the music that you listened to growing up. It becomes embedded in your subconscious.
ReplyDeleteHorns up to you, Simple Jew (heh heh, that's a good song title).
ReplyDeleteHirshel, that's purely a matter of taste. What does most of the Frum world see in 70's Disco music? Chazzanus gives some people a headache (ironically I'm actually very into Chazzanus). If you knew what Opera was about you'd see it's no more refined than HM. So why I'm involved in Goyishe music is a good question, but there's no real Chiddush in the Grobkeit of HM over most any other genre out there.
"what on earth do you people see in Schmaltz Herring?" a woman once asked me "I can't even bear to smell the stuff!" nuf said
Mendel: Now all you need to do is write the song to go with it! ;)
ReplyDeletePerhaps you could even get Marty Friedman or Scott Ian to play along as well!
"what in the world do mild-mannered spiritoal people like yourself see in Heavy metal"
ReplyDeleteSpiritual yes, mild mannered no.
This entire debate, all over the Jewish world, the chaseedeshe world and any other world, is pointless. It is based on historical happenstance. If the medieval church would have discovered drums (as opposed to the Africans), we would be singing yifrach beyomov to heavy metal and condenming music that sounds like the beitzim are being squeezed.