Another Misnagdishe story that I have a hard time understanding. Maybe one of you can enlighten me here. It's stories like these that mark lines in the proverbial sand between Chassidim and Misnagdim, Chassidishe Mayses, whether embelished or not, seem to have a very clear moral and lesson, even if they're about the greatness of a Tzaddik. Misnagdishe Mayses sometimes seem to make no sense, and they seem to teach the opposite of good Midos and proper dealings between people. Case in point: The Jewish Press in Tovia Preschel's column this week, reviews Shlomo Lorincz's memoirs. We discussed the book and some its choice stories there in the past, and why the Yated choose to publish some of them before last year's Israeli Knesset elections, but we'll focus on another story of another personality.
There was this one time where the Ponovizher Rosh Yeshiva (aka the Vaboylniker Tzaddik) came to learn with the Brisker Rov, Reb Velvel. While learning there he called his daughter, Rivkah, to prepare a cup 'o' tea for himself and his study partner. She entered the room and placed the tea on the table, adding a plate of sugar as well. After she left the room her father called her back and told her to add some sugar to the cups, which she did. She then left the room. He then called her back a second time and told her to stir the sugar for him and his Chavrusah. After all this the Rosh Yeshivah asked the Rov: Why did you harass your daughter like that; couldn't you just do it yourself, or at the very least, ask her all at once without making her come back all those times? The Rov answered (and I paraphrase) Ihr mezakeh zein mit a Mitzvah is a shlechthe zach? He did it all for her sake, to give her Mitzvos.
I fail to understand stories like these, and they turn me off, even after I try and keep an open mind about adversaries of Lubavitch and the Rebbe. What is the point of publishing this and very such story? are we supposed to do the same with our children, is this the way that kids will appreciate their parents, by having them slave away for them like that? Help me out here. While we're at it let's try and understand the whole approach the BR took to educating his kids; the tough stance on everything, making Yiddishkeit seem like a long list of nos and of difficulties. That seemingly worked as far as his own family is concerned; there seem to be no failures in his offspring, VeAderaba, but I still don't get it. Might they have not turned out that way had they been raised with a dash of joy sprinkled in to their education?
To the wonderful baal daas Heshy the Tzig,
ReplyDeleteBut first a small question from me:You once answered why a Hungarian like yourself would be attracted to Lubavitch.You answer was The Rebbe, the other 6 rebbeim and niggunim.Let's just analyze your 'The Rebbe' reason.You are a young man, at most in your very early thirties, if so, with the Rebbe deceased 13 years and after a stroke two and a half prior to that, you could have only got to 'know the Rebbe at the tender young age of about 15, right?Means basically you are pretty late on the bandwagon of 'knowing' the Rebbe.In fact I''ll go a step further and tell you that you did not know the Rebbe at all!The last few years prior to the Rebbes illness were very much not like the Rebbe, in fact many people were very uncomfortable about the last years which started to descend into something very different than they knew all the years.So your being attracted to Lubavitch because of a Rebbe you did not know, shows volumes about your maturity and general satatus as a 'ba'al daas'.I won't even approach the ludicrous idea of your becoming 'niskarev' to Lubavitch because of the other 6 rebbeim.You knew zilch about them.As to the reason of becoming a chosid because of niggunim?Forget it, it's just to silly.
Although I appreciated the Rebbe, his chassidim by and large are not on my most favourite list, the reason being their shallow thinking and their stooping to speak bad about all others all Lubavitchs perceived enemies.
Kiddo, please grow up.
Nothing gives a litvak the ultimate pleasure better then peinigen a yid "leshem mitzva".
ReplyDeleteBut don't curse them out too much, as a true x-b-dnique is the same litvak, minus the lomdus. As the word was, אַ מען שנײדט אױף אַ כאַבאַדסקער, טרעפֿט מען אַ לוטװאַק אין עהם. און אױב מען טרעפֿט נישט, אױצהעט ניט געפֿערלעך ...
reb Tzig ,
ReplyDeleteplease answer a few questions :
1. who made you a defender and protector of Lubavitch ?
2. how much time are you a Lubavitcher ?
3.. do you think , that absolutely nothing is bad in Lubavitch ?
4. do you know , what it means " moyde al ho`emes " ?
5. what makes you , personally , a Lubavitcher ? gartl , kapote , shlyape , beard ( tzigene )???
6. do you know the " pirush hamilos " of the shaharis davening ? every word ?
7. do you really think , that with your tzigene me-me-meken, you making a service for Lubavitch ?
8. do you really think , that you know , what Lubavitch is ?
9.do you know , how to spell " Lubavitch " ?
10. how many prokim of " Tanya ", do you know by heart ?
11. how many maymorim , do you know by heart ?
12. did you knew anybody personally , who gave away his life mamesh , for Yideshkayit , -a true Lubavitcher Hossid ?
13. why you call yourself Tzig , when in reality you are a gemaleter Ferd ?
14. what kind of rope , are you using for hiskashrus to the computer ?
What's funny is dov knowing so much about someone he has no chance of ever meeting. Tzig, there's no such thing as a free psychoanalysis.
ReplyDeleteIs fourteen questions "a few?"
ReplyDeleteI don't think so.
Hmmm
ReplyDeleteHow do you know if I know the Tzig?
I think the moral of the story is very simple. Its called Shimush talmide Chachomim. The Brisker rav did not ask his daughter to prepare 6 suppers for the guest , just to make a tea
ReplyDeleteIt is stories like these that make one wonder if Brisker religion is same as ours.
ReplyDeletedov, how do I know that your grandmother is not a cow?
ReplyDeleteWhy did he ever stop calling his daughter back to be able to do more and more Mitzvos? So obviously you'll tell me that there's a limit, if so then what is it?
ReplyDeleteHeshy
ReplyDeleteI was perusing Hirhurim.blogspot.com and found this post about another member of the Brisker dynasty.
''FWIW, the Jewish Press was the only reading material RYBS actively banned from his home.
According to his daughter, she was once on the couch reading the JP, when the Rav walked in, pulled it out of her hands, and threw it in the trash.
After he left the room, she took it out of the trash can and began reading it again.
The Rav walked back in, pulled it back out of her hands, and threw it back in the trash!
That being said, the JP may well have improved substantially over the last few years (I plead ignorance). I can't imagine the presence of a mensch like Shlomo Greenwald would be anything but a positive influence...'''
Needless to say that the Jewish Press has been a great friend of Lubavitch inc...I remeber the heady pre gimmel tammuz days, when the this Mess of a paper was the only one prepared to publish the imminent revelation of the Rebbe as moshiach and other shtusim.(those are the days when The Tzig was getting to 'know' Lubavitch)It's a good match, both parties are unbelievably shallow and quick to judge based on emotions or in Lubavitch parlamce as 'hergesh'.Not something you would expect from a ''thinking'' chassidus.
Btw, now is the time to point out about the 'great friendship' that Lubavitch claims Rabbi J.B Soloveichik had towards Lubavitch, even bringing the ultimate 'proof' that he came to (one) farbrengen:Lets try and analyze this proof:The great friend comes to ONE farbrengen in 40 years! Wow.
How about meating this friend over the years?Nada?? (maybe once for a shiva call, not sure about that.See, if the Lubavitcher had any basic 'seychel' they would realize that Rabbi J.Ber by never ever coming by or having any shaychus or sending any talmidim was proving that he wanted nothing to do with them.The one farbrengen he attended was to thank Lubavitch for some kesovim of his zeideh Lubavitch helped him get from Russia (kach shomati)
Another friendship bites the dust.
Btw the Klauseburger, apparently also a big 'yedid' if you listen to Lubab ,never even met, though he lived about three miles away for many years.
The point is not the Jp, you of little brains, it's quoting Shlomo Lorincz, the great Hungarian Snag! What RYBS was so against was probably the editorials, although the Jewish Week and Forverts was probably A-OK in his house, not to mention other publications.
ReplyDeleteAs far as his connection to Lubavitch goes; Lo Maaleh VeLo Morid in my book. I imagine from your tone of voice that you don't care for him neither. You just use him at your convenience.
I've heard said (and this applies in many other situations as well), that one time is enough to make a statement. (Similar to RYK and RMF posted earlier here).
ReplyDelete*
In addition, there's a whole background to the 10 Shvat 5740 farbrengen, which was later recounted to R' Avrohom Shemtov. On this basis, it can be more appreciated.
One point he said was (quoting from RAS. I personally heard):
At the farbrengen celebrating the Lubavitcher Rebbe's 80th birthday, Rabbi Solveitchik attended for over an hour, though originally he intended just to come in and wish Mazal Tov, as he had other appointments the same evening. His driver, his student, was surprised that his teacher overstayed his intended time. After all, his teacher was punctual and meticulous with time. What made his overstay?
Rabbi Solveitchik explained using the background of Moshe's 2 sets of 40 days on Mount Sinai in Parshas Ki Sisa. The first time Moshe came down from Mt Sinai he was like a Rosh Yeshiva, scholarly and knowledgeable, having studied all of Torah with the best possible teacher of all. But then he spent the next 40 days on the mountain pleading with G-d on behalf of the Jewish people. He advocated on behalf of sinners and sought the welfare of the Jewish people. Then he came down as a Rebbe.
I knew the Rebbe in Berlin, explained Rabbi Solveitchik. We were both studying there and I knew the Rebbe to be learned and scholarly. Then he was like Moshe's first descent - as a Rosh Yeshiva. This time I heard him speak in defense of the Jewish People, advocating on their behalf and seeking their welfare. This time the Rebbe, like Moshe, changed. Now he was a Rebbe, and I had to stay on to witness this.
*
(There were other points, which I don't recollect as of now. When I find them, I'll be sure to post).
[This in addition to other points, as Rabbi Genack and other talmidim of his, told over in the recent "The Early Years" video documentary series on the Rebbe, by JEM].
Pnimuyus,
ReplyDeleteRE: the yedidus between the Klausenburger Rebbe and the Rebbe.
Tzaddikim on this level don't need to meet in a physical way. They meet on a different plane or how do you explain the fact that the Rebbe never met the RASHAB although eventually he became his successor?