It seems to me that the perception in today's world is that you're measured to be a successful parent by your children. In other words, a good parent has good kids, and a bad parent bad kids. Simple enough. I'm guilty of thinking like that as well. The same would go for Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivah, if they have good Talmidim that would make them good Rebbes. Speak to any Hungarian/Rumanian Yid or any of his descendants and he'll tell you how they were the best of all the Jews, and look how successful they were, and how unaffected their children were by any of the movements that were so popular elsewhere. The only problem is that in retrospect it makes the Tzadikei Oylom of yesteryear look like failures, because look what happened under their watch. The failure rate was astronomical, it was almost as if they didn't exist. The disdain that existed in the hearts of many to the Rabbonim and Tzaddikim of that generation, people who never harmed anybody, is impossible to believe, yet Davke they were the recipients of such hate from their own brethren. We all know about the Frierdige Rebbe and Nachmanson and Lulav, children of his own Chassidim who mocked him openly for no good reason. The Rebbe never hurt them, yet they physically abused him. So the theory that good people make good kids and Talmidim doesn't work here. The same goes for today's children; I know of compulsive gamblers and wife-abusers who had Tchachkes for kids, one better than the next, and Tzaddikim who were good parents who had zero success. Go figure. G-d works in mysterious ways, and only he knows why.
The psychological literature is replete with studies which conclude that parents are the single greatest factor implicated in children who rebel, religiously and otherwise. ("Implicated" does not equal "caused", but there is definitely a correlation.) That being said, it by no means precludes other contributing factors. Moreover, these studies are Bichlolus from the past 50 years, and were conducted in the US and other Western countries. Therefore, to generalize their results to prewar Europe would be irresponsible because of the fact that that generation had vastly different environmental and cultural differences than we do.
ReplyDeleteSo, rather than saying "a good parent has good kids, and a bad parent bad kids" which is pretty black and white, I'd say "the better the parents, the greater their chances of success with their children."
I'll leave the definition of "good kid" and "good parent" for another day.
In terms of why people left religion before World War 2 (starting in the mid 19th century)and specifically Nachmanson and his ilk etc, you fail to note the tremendous poverty, anti semitism , persecutions , pogroms and loss of hope that befell the Jews in the Czarist Empire in 19th century Czarist Russia.. In the eyes of most Russian Jews - hope to get out of this misery was in the hands of the Zionists, emigration to America, socialism, Communism, local autonomy (Dubnow, Zitlowski) . All these movements and idiologies were vigorously opposed by most rabbis (the orthodox establishmen)and almost all Chassidic leaders. the rebbes and rabbis were viewed by most amcha Yidden as being alligned with the rich and powerful and not concerned with developing a way for jews to get out of this misery. The rabbis only offered prayer , well that had not worked for the masses, in recent years.So they sought other answers. Imagine a Russian jewry where the rebbeim supported Socialism and a "reallignment of Jewsih wealth and power (instead of catering to the wealthy like the Gourarys, Hornsteins and others), a world where the rabbis supported aliya to palestine (only a few did) where the rabbis supported moving to the US or South africa and urged gedolim to lead these jews to their new homes. imagine a Jewry where orthodox trade schools and gymnasiums trained religious young men to be able to support their families in an honorable manner.Imagine rabbis taking a strong position agaisnt the plagues of white slavery, labor abuse (eg in Lodz by rich hassidic manufacturers) etc.Imagine Jewry where the rabbis organized jewish self defense squads against the pogroms and anti semitic violence But by and large the rabbis only offered individual relief and prayer. hence people like Nachmanson and Lulav were attracted to the New order.And looked upon the rabbis as symbols of the old order of hopelessness.
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness Schneur, what did you expect them to do? stand up and fight the Czar? then what? they'd be kicked out en masse! What would then be accomplished? Most Jews STILL suffer from a terrible syndrome of fear, and most adults are intimidated by a bunch of Shkotzim sitting on their stoop horsing around.
ReplyDeleteNo no no, Take the Kishinev pogroms for example, a few Jews fighting the Pogromchikes could have saved much Jewish life and property. (To speak nothing of Jewish pride which is a rabinic and Biblical concept not invented by herzl or BG)
ReplyDeleteAs a amtter of fact the National poet Chaim Nachman Bialik wrote this in his epic poem Ir hahariga about Kishinev and was criticized by the frum community for those few lines and where he mentioned the rape of jewish women and the loss of Jewish honor by the Pogromchikes Yemach shemam leolam vaed.
Jabotinsky and Joseph Trumpeldor HayaD was among the first to raise the flag of Jewish self defense in Russia organizing such squads in Odessa to protect the Jews.
Its not a question of fighting the Czar and his reshus (lashon tarti mashma) but of self defense of protecting our lives, our women and our property.By the Jewish pride being desecrated, the name of Our G-d is desecrated.
This attitude has biblical roots in the parsha of z'nus usreifas bas Kohen with the thundering words es aveeha hee mekhaleles
ReplyDeleteWhat if anything do you know about der alte rebbes son Moshe and Rav Yisroel Salanter's son the math professor at St. Petersburg.