Thursday, September 6, 2007
Tormented Souls
Another young man from Crown Heights just took his life in the bowels of the NYC Subway System. That makes 2 in a week. Just beautiful. I guess dying in CH is also a zach, not just living there, they both made sure to do it right in front of Bais Chayeinu. I'm not here to point fingers at anybody like some of the "do-gooders" are, nor do I have the answers like some claim to have. I do however know that people need to want to be helped, offering it doesn't do the job. I happen to know who the young man was, and we had a close mutual friend. (I still have the friend, b"h.) The friend tells me that he was a "textbook case" of a suicide waiting to happen, and the now victim also knew it. It was just a question of when. There are millions of others just like him, but for some reason it was held in check in our communities for the most part, people just lived out their lives with their respective conditions. Now it seems that tide too has turned, and young frum people are seeing suicide as an option. This is bad.
I was always bothered by the parsha of the Egla Arufo, where the elders say "our hands did not spill this blood". I don't know of any community today where the elders could say this.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, the elders know zilch about their "people", and the people are often not aware of the resources available to them.
comparing not feeding and housing a man to not curing his mental ailments is just not fair. Egloh Arufoh is not relevant to this problem.
ReplyDeleteHere's the issue:
we've created a society where nobody wishes to discuss mental ailments. They hide it when it comes to shidduchim even at the expense of an eventual divorce. So how should a Rov know when there are issues such as these? Besides, since when does getting Smichah make you an expert on manic depressives? If the kid leaves the neighborhood how should he be helped? If he suffers in silence how is the Rov supposed to know?
People don't trust Rabbonim, and Rabbonim in turn have little patience for the people. Rabbonim discourage people from consulting with professional for fear that they may say something not in line with the group policy.
The problems here are many.
This one was- supposedly not a suicide. There is a police surveillance video which sees this guy walking down the tracks for G-d knows what reason, and when the train was coming he tried to dodge it. His body hit the electrified rail and got lunged back in front of the oncoming train.
ReplyDeleteTextbook suicide case or not, I think you're being a little too pretentious.
from the dictionary:
ReplyDeletePretentious: making usually unjustified or excessive claims.
If I sound pretentious I apologize. That's definitely not my intention. I was passing on what I heard from friends.
why then was he on the tracks in the first place? train surfing?
hey nice to see that you believe in proffesionals
ReplyDeletemay gd help us fast
we need the rebbe. is this what he left us ???
I dunno, you said he was unstable. I can think of a million reasons why someone like that would go wandering around in the bowels of the transit system. Maybe he was looking to shoot up or maybe that was just his escape.
ReplyDeleteThe {supposed} fact remains that he was seen trying to avoid the train, not very symptomatic of a "jumper."
Also, word in 770 is that he wasn't exactly a young "frum" person. In the words of a family friend, "he sold his Teffilin 20 years ago."
I do agree with you that there must be some professional {non-rabbinic} help brought in. Unfortunately this community suffers widely from many ills, including, but not limited to, acute alcoholism. Additionally, there are all sorts of domestic problems which exist which are not tended to, leading to abuse, mental illness, attrition, etc... The community has already lost its faith in Rabbonim, particularly the younger crowd. If we're going to save ourselves, someone better do something quick.
Nemo
ReplyDeleteI never said or impiled unstable. Unstable people sleep in the streets, wallowing in their own filth. This was not the case here. He was suffering, yes, but definitely not unstable. As far as frum goes: I meant born and raised frum. He had tefillin less than 20 years ago. I distinctly remember him davenen faren omud in 770 after his father died.
If Tzig remembers him davening in 770 it can't be anything close to 20 years without tefillin, since Tzig joined Chabad only a couple of years ago.
ReplyDeleteNemo, curious if you go to the Kingston station tracks to picnic or farbreng?
Ninmy
ReplyDeleteI remember him davening for the Omud for his father. His father was Niftar more than a few years ago. I wish you know-nothings would bother to find out the facts before you make proclamations about me.
Here's the really bad news. Confirmed socialogy research shows that once a suicide occurs, others ALWAYS follow. It's like a barrier has been removed, and it's suddenly possible to consider what was unthinkable before.
ReplyDeleteHashem YeRachem, if the community doesn't take FAST and SERIOUS action, SUSTAINED over a period of time (1-2 years) there will be more.
so what are they supposed to do in CH, approach every kid and make sure he's/she's not suicidal?
ReplyDeleteyour out of line! shem zich.
ReplyDeleteshem zich for what?
ReplyDeleteDD,
ReplyDeleteWhen did you become a typical "shove it under the rug", kind of guy?
Tzig,
ReplyDeleteA continuation of this post http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/search?q=greenberg
happened here
http://www.vosizneias.com/2007/09/kiryas-joel-monroe-ny-state-police.html
These souls too are tormented, they just manage to channel their energy into damaging other people's property in the guise of Kano'us. Maybe they should do that too in Crown Heights?
ReplyDeleteHere's what a usually sane friend of mine wrote me when I forwarded him the spraypainting/tireslashing story:
ReplyDelete"friend:makes sense to me, what's the problem?
me: the slashing/spraypainting?
friend: sure
why do they live in KJ?
they are certainly looking for this kind of thing
a couple of shtiklach human debris
they deserve whatever they get
me: right
death by firing squad is more appropriate
friend: no, i dont think that would be appropriate
me: they're lucky these people are so compassionate
friend: i'm sure they were asked to leave many times prior
I have zero feeling for their BS suffering"
END OF CONVERSATION
I seem to be all alone in this world. Everybody else has gone stark mad.
Gershy was very depressed about how his life had gone... very depressed
ReplyDeleteAnd his situation was unusually bad:
His father had nervous breakdown, basically insane for 18-20 years until he dies (Gershy never knew his father as a normal person)
One brother was a big time criminal - he was murdered about 20 years ago
Another brother is a hermit, and not exactly normal, who still lives at home
Never had a father figure, nobody looked after him, nobody gave him guidance (basically ever).
what a life...
Sigh,
ReplyDeleteI never heard of the older brother,how and by whom was he murdered.
Very sad story
Sigh
ReplyDeleteAre u saying that you think it was a good idea for Gorodetzki to kill himself R"L? Hey after all his life sucked...
This is the typical response I hear at funerals... it's so sad... but you know what Rabbi, he is much better off this way... What a bunch of nonsense. One of the basic of Yiddishkeit (never mind Chassidus) is that a man is better off alive than dead no matter how he lives his life, or how miserable his lot. For the simple reason that being alive is the only time when I can exercise my free choice, and elevate the physical world. No need to elaborate I hope....
“Just beautiful” please explain?
ReplyDelete“I guess dying in CH is also a zach, not just living there, they both made sure to do it right in front of Bais Chayeinu”! How do you know? It is also the closest train station.
“I do however know that people need to want to be helped, offering it doesn't do the job.” The first boy comes from a loving family and was helped.
“Now it seems that tide too has turned, and young frum people are seeing suicide as an option. This is bad”. Wrong, now there is media, so instead of hearing about a Yid killed by the Russians for keeping torah, you hear .....
So Hershel, tell your assemblyman to get the heck out of crown heights and both of you should stop using this tragedy for self promotion.
I am not a mental health professional , but a number of comments here need a tikkun. ]
ReplyDeleteFirstly seriously sick people are not necessarily homeless or on the street. In the secular world many of the college students who kill themselves are good students from wealthy families, who are tortured and tormented internally. As in religion chitzonius is not a good indicator of the state of ones pnimiuth.
Next as far as walking on the subway tracks, it reminds me of a vort by the mashgiach of Baranowitz rav Lubachanski Hayad. if you see someone crawling in a window at night - call the police. Here too no normal person walks on subway tracks.REpeat that no normal person walks on subway tracks, just as no normal person takes a half bottle of a drug.
Not living in CH I hardly know the psychological turf , but perhaps I can make several comments.
If the kids at universities need Chabad houses for drop in and psychological help , why not open a Chabad house in CH with the facilities that a Chabad house has in California, to help drug abusers , troubled kids etc.Loma Nigreu !
Trained pros are needed but they alone can not do the job. The parents , and teachers need to recognize serious psychological problems.
Finally my pet peeve does not anyone in CH land relaize that after 50 years of a Rebbe larger than life not only leading them , but dictating their lifes , many can not manage under the new regime where anything goes.
Add to that a dose of immediate Messianism with a dose of the Rebbe is really alive and you have a nice "kompot" to the mental problems everyone in the uSA suffers.
Perhaps one day people will wake up in Lubavitch and will realize that without strong spiritual leadership Lubavitch will just develop into another variation of an American religious community (Modern orthodox) or it can take steps to seek serious spritual leadership and remain a Chassidic unit rooted in 7 generations of leadership. a gut yohr to all.
Rabbi Pinson,
ReplyDeleteI have no clue where you got the idea that anyone was saying anything along those lones.
Chilik: The older brother that I was refering to (that was murdered) was Yossi Gorodetsky (yes, I know, Yossi was actually adopted) - I got along well with him, but he was into a criminial lifestyle and was killed in his parents home (he was there alone) by other criminals...