Seen on Areivim:
"When Rav Chaim Soloveitchik was a young boy, his father (the Beis HaLevi)
hired for him a private teacher to allow him to diligently progress in his
Torah learning. The tutor quickly recognized the genius of his student and
was eager to show off the young prodigy. As the teacher was a chossid of
the Slonimer Rebbe, he decided to take his protégé to visit his Rebbe. After they entered and were seated, the Slonimer Rebbe gave an apple to the young Chaim, who proceeded to take a voracious bite without first making a blessing. The Rebbe voiced his disapproval to his chossid, noting that if he were a better teacher, his student would understand the importance of reciting a blessing before eating. The young Chaim rejoined by passing the buck one step higher and impudently suggesting that if the Rebbe were on a higher level, his chassidim would be better teachers, who in turn would have better students!"
If you're a Misnaged who things that all Chassidim and Rebbes were and are ignorant Kugel-Fressers then here's ample proof that even a young Reb Chaim could quickly outsmart even an old-time Rebbe. If you're a lover of all things Brisk you're sure to like the story simply because it shows Reb Chaim's Pikchus, even if it is at the expense of a great Tzaddik. If you're a Chossid you've got a dilemmma on your hands. You can't just put down Reb Chaim, even at that young age, after all he was Reb Chaim Brisker, so what do you do? I've yet to come up with an approach for you, but maybe the readers here can help. The commenters on Areivim, including one very irate lawyer, were quick to condemn the story as false. After all, it can't be that RCB would embarrass a Rebbe like that, even as a child. That's one approach, make the Tzaddik into what you'd like him to be. Another approach was "forget the story ever happened." We learn nothing from stories like that, the commenter says, so why repeat it? I'd like to hear what you people think.
R. Chaim eating without a brocho? Definitely a false story.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the big deal? All stories are lies.
he probably mumbled a brocho like an FFB
ReplyDeleteTrue. And all stories are truth as well.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is, of course, that as Poilisher there is no need for the Chossid to become better.
Throw the darts, come on. Ouch.
In reality, how is this worse than Reb Shmuel Munkes telling the Alter Rebbe that he deserves to go to jail, either as a Rebbe it won't harm him, and if he is not a Rebbe he deserves it for ruining the life of so many...
Um, Hirshel, that lawyer's outrage was as they say, "tongue in cheek."
ReplyDeleteDidn't know you read Areivim though..!
TIC, you say? ok.
ReplyDeleteI read it when I can maneuver through all the arrows and disclaimers. Somebody ought to tell those people that it's not very reader-friendly.
Tzig, a lurker. Who would'a thunk it?!
ReplyDeleteSo let me ask you, who is your favorite poster? SBA? Toby? MB? Harry?
ummm.... i would say that this story does not reflect well on Bais HoRav.
ReplyDeletethe melamed teaches the student Torah, making brochos is usually a home subject.
ummm.... i would say that this story does not reflect well on Bais HoRav.
ReplyDeletethe melamed teaches the student Torah, making brochos is usually a home subject.
Having lernt in Brisk, I can say that the story is slightly garbled. The Melamed screamed at RC, 'why didn't you make a Brocha', to which the Rebbe said 'It is you fault, because you didn't teach him", to which RC said "It is you fault, as you are HIS Rebbe'. As an aside I am a true one of those “ Misnaged who things that all Chassidim and Rebbes were and are ignorant Kugel-Fressers”. But I don’t think this story proves that point, nor have I ever heard it told over in that manner. It is just an example of RC’s Pikcus. You will also note that there is a long tradition in Brisk of being Makpid only to use Chassidish Mlamdim
ReplyDeleteThe response you refer to is obviously meant ironically. However IMHO it is indeed unthinkable that R Chaim, at an age when he was already advanced enough to need a private melamed, and for that melamed to feel proud enough of "his s'cheyreh" to show it off, would eat without a brocheh. The most likely answer is that the story is false, and no further answers are required.
ReplyDeletewho else was present there to tell over this story?
ReplyDeleteThere's clearly a conflict between not making a bracha and having such a snappy comeback.
ReplyDeleteHow could he have taken Reb Chaim to the Slonimer without his father knowing? This was in Volohzin? The Slonimer was in Volozhin? Reb Chaim was in Slonim? Reb Chaim didn't make a brocha? Doesn't add up.
ReplyDeleteI saw the post on Areivim and the sharp response from the lawyer. I did not understand it to be TIC. Maybe I was wrong.
ReplyDeleteI did not know what to make of the story or of the response. I was wondering the same.
You made a mistake, Tzig.
ReplyDeleteThe story goes like this.
Rav Chaim Brisker saw the Rebbe when he was a youngster (young, but already a false Messiah) - and offered him a banana.
The Rebbe ate it without making a Brocha.
Rav Chaim let him finish eating the entire fruit - and then turned to the Bais Haleivi and said: "Tate! Ir zeht ve dem meshugenah hut zain eigener shulchan aruch?"
To which the Bais Haleivy replied "nu nu. Er iz a nurmaler kugel-fresser. Chepper em nisht....luz em gain shilpen mit mushke in college......"
Snags are fools.
ReplyDeleteReb Chaim said "Maybe, one day, you will meet my ehnikel in Berlin"
ReplyDeleteThe Beis HaLevi died (am I allowed to say that he died?) ten years before the Rebbe was born. But does that matter to a boor snag? of course not.
ReplyDeleteThe way I heard the story was that R'Chaim was 4 or five years old.So please drop the righteous indignance, he was barely out of diapers and this well known story was an example of 'pikces' as a very young kid.
ReplyDeleteA few years later he and the Rogatchover would both be tutored by his father The Bais Haleivy, and If I remember correctly the Rogatchover had no longer a rebbe a couple of years before bar mitzvah.
I'm not sure when The Bais Halevy became rov in Brisk, but if this mayseh is in Brisk, there were many chasidim in shtot and Slonim was not very far .
Bderech agav:I believe that the Bais Halevys first wife was Chabad.He had a daughter with her and according to the tale his shver thought he was ignorant because he did not know which yoitser or shir shel yom was said.Eppes azoi.Umuvo besefer harishoin lebeis brisk.Azoi dachtn zech.
You bring this story as a question on the Slonimer, when in fact the only question i see here, is on the Brisker. The Slonimer did nothing that any other Rebbe would not do.
ReplyDeleteThe wonder in the story which subsequently makes it hard to believe is the fact that the Brisker forgot to make a Brochoh.
this reminds me of a story i once read in the Community Connections (Monsey publication) which they wrote about r' Shach when he passed away.
once when R' Schach was learning, one of his talmidim noticed that there was a peace of paper that contained shaimos beneath his foot. so the talmid bent down and picked up R' Schach's foot a bit and removed the shaimos. all without R' Schach noticing a thing.
They were trying to bring out the “ameilus” of R' Shach. when i thought it brought out the lack of sense for Kedusha.
according to the tale his shver thought he was ignorant because he did not know which yoitser or shir shel yom was said.Eppes azoi.
ReplyDeleteThis makes no sense, because Lubavs don't say yeitzres. And if he didn't know which shir shel yom goes with which day is er takeh an amhoretz. Unless you mean the strange ones that the Groniks say for each special occasion, in which case once again Lubavs don't say them, so the shver wouldn't have expected him to know them, and may well not have known them himself.
BTW, Reb Chaim once met my great-great-grandfather, Reb Oreh Gluskin, and afterwards commented that he had heard he was a talmid chochom, but had not expected him to be such a great one as he found him to be.
Millhouse
ReplyDeletePlease don't get technical with me on the details of what was expected from the Bais Halevy.It was something that is brought in every 'luach' I don't recall what exactly.
Stam azoi, what is 'strange' about the shir shel yoim said by the GR'O on special occasions?After all it is the actual 'shir' said by the 'leviyim' on those days.I think the tayneh is also that when we say 'hashir shehaleviyim hoyu omrim' and than we say the regular shir shel yom it is 'diver shekorim'.I think thats is what the Goan himself writes
I can't get much from the story. So a young child gave a sharp response? If I'd been his melamed the conversation would have continued:
ReplyDelete[melamed] He he he, what a dear child - BIFF!
[R" CHaim Brisk] Ow!
I am amazed that everyone is looking at the different issues with this stories. Some even call this Pikchus. Does Brisk not hold of "Derech Eretz Kodmah Latorah"? And why isn't that a strike against Reb Chaim instead of a great story of being mevazeh a Talmid Chochom? Or may be that's OK in some places!!!!
ReplyDeleteyou got thrown off list for shemayisrael.com story?
ReplyDelete