Many a man will ask why the observance of 22 Shvat, a Yohrtzeit of a Rebbetzin? is she too one of the Rabbeyim that we observe her Yohrtzeit, visit her Tziyun, and learn the Mishnayes of her name? I too had trouble understanding it once upon a time, but I attribute that difficulty to my background and education.
Why her more than all others?
Many will say that it was her royal qualities and the way she conducted herself in her day-to-day life. The fact that she was hardly seen in public attributed to a mystique that has yet to reach its peak. With others it was the fact that with her passing the "golden days" of Lubavitch ended, with no farbrengens during the week, and no more Mamorim, save for a couple. One thing is for certain; Lubavitch owes her a tremendous debt of gratitude, and is repaying that debt. Without her insistance who knows if the Rebbe would've accepted the Nesius, and the outcome of the Seforim court case might have been very different. There is so much we do not know about her support and help of the Rebbe in all matters. There is no more appropriate way of repaying that debt than the current way.
(Ad Kan from 2 years ago.)
In a free discusion of the history of the Lubavitch moement since 1951 the following questions have troubled me :
ReplyDelete1. Why Rebbetzin Schneerson was not active in the various Lubavitcher Mosdos for females After all she was an educated person. ?(Like her counterpart in Bobov) 2. Why Mrs. Schneerson did not take the lead in creating social welfare groups in CH to help the needy, sick, Kalos , Russian jews(I am not implying that she did nothing , but I am talking leadership) like her counterpart in SatmarThis was the classic role of the Rebbetzin East Europe.
3. Why the Rebbetzin played no role whatsoever in the Neshe Agudas Chabad or in DI Yiddishe HEim ?
Indeed there may be a few rebbetzins who were not active
but they usually are engaged in activity No. 2 and in the lives of their children and grandchildren.
So what was the chief daily activity of Rebbetzin Schneerson ?
I mean no disresepect for her, because she wasa private person , who did not need or want all the "tararram" about her personna nowadays.
Somewhat ironic that her desire for personal privacy during her life is being disregarded in death.
ReplyDeleteThe respect that she receives is a result of our respect for the Rebbe, similar, in a sense, to naming a child after the Rebbe's brother, z"l.
We make a big deal about the Rebbetzin beacause the Rebbe did after Chof-Beis Shvat. She made the greatest sacrifice of all so that we can have a Rebbe
ReplyDeleteCHASSHA! "She made the greatest sacrifice of all" what scrifice???
ReplyDelete"Without her insistance who knows if the Rebbe would've accepted the Nesius, and the outcome of the Seforim court case might have been very different."
ReplyDeleteWithout her insistance there would not have been a court case.
What sacrifice you ask? She shared her most precious possession with the whole world. Her share of the Rebbe's 24/7 was miniscule. In her own words she said that the Rebbe belonged to his people. That was her ultimate sacrifice. What more can you ask?
ReplyDeleteKasha thinks that she had Koved and Gelt from her being her husband being Rebbe like some of the others, that why he assumes it was no sacrifice. One can't blame him, really, he's from another society. He doesn't know better.
ReplyDeleteHere is what I quoted last year from a Chossid fiend of mine:
ReplyDeleteShe willingly and with full awareness gave her husband away to the Chassidim, keeping nothing for herself. Many a rebbetzin has resented the time etc. been concerned for his health etc. So the chassidim respect her as someone but for whom the Rebbe wouldn't have been as much of a rebbe as he was.
You're right, we have to show patience and tolerance to those that don't know better. Otherwise you might just find yourself busy responding to posts on a new blog called "TheAntiTzig".
ReplyDeletein most kehilas not neccesary chasidim the rebtzins work very hard for the general public ,she wasnt even a silent participent in any work that lubavitch was involved, now you people are being brainwashed that it was something special in her privateness,she had a very comfortable life in comparisonto anynone in her lifetime and did not care to serve the public even for non religous goals
ReplyDeleteI take offense to your supposition that I am brainwashed. I have no illusions about what the Rebbetzin did or did not do for her kehilla. And how would you know what someones silent participation is? It's silent, after all. I know for a fact that the Rebbetzin was involved in certain projects for the kehilla. But that's beside the point. My esteem for her doesn't depend on it. The mere fact that she allowed the Rebbe to be "public property" was enough of a contribution to the community!
ReplyDeleteKasha
ReplyDeletedid you reliaze that she had no children in her house with a husband that arrived home at 5.00 in the morning?
Shneur, can you recall 1 deed of the Beis Yisroels Rebetzin or the Rebetzin Triena (beside the famous breslov story)
Alte Figa Tietelbaum messed up big time Satmar for generations to come, she ostracized his closest family the daughter,nephew and his children. Half of the Machlokes and Chilul Hashem of the last 3 decades would be avoided if they were welcomed in their uncles house,she was behind grooming some lunatic Sholum Halpert for Rebbe
The Lub Rebbe became a Rebbe only b/c the Rebbetzn
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe loved the Rebbetzn (like 60 years of marriage)problably more than anyone else(except his mother)and more being the daughther of his Rebbe
.
The koved and love that is expressed to the Rebbetzn, obviously gives naches to the LUB Rebbe,
IT is a form of Hiskashrus
there are many things that ppl could wonder about the Rebbetzn
A)like Shneur asks, B)like the fact that the Rebbe paskened that women to weare sheitels, and the Rebbetzn continued wearing tichel
c)Like the relationship with her sister, and the maise "hayadua",etc.etc
Lubs should not get involved in these questions, it does not take them to anywhere, and it is not something that would bring naches to the Rebbe
So, therefore, the deserved koved
After Chof Bais Shvat, when asked about publicizing things about the Rebbetzin (pictures etc.) the Rebbe responded something to the effect of "if it will add to the 'והחי יתן אל לבו' then go ahead with it. for this reason, i imagin, this video and the like are being produced and made public.
ReplyDeletethere are many things that ppl could wonder about the Rebbetzn
ReplyDeleteA)like Shneur asks, B)like the fact that the Rebbe paskened that women to weare sheitels, and the Rebbetzn continued wearing tichel
----
I happen to know the Rebbetzin's shaitel-macher's family. And I know her business very well - she does not do tichlach.
Schneur, you need to keep in mind that the Alter Rebbetzin was alive until Lamed Aleph-21 years into the Rebbe's Nesius.
ReplyDeleteIn additon, her older sister was around also until much later.
Possibly this had something to do with the Rebbetzin staying out of the limelight?
Kasha, it's amazing how you manage to regurgitate Schneur's post with a third of the tochen and no intelligibility.
ReplyDeleteB'chlal m'redt vegen Tsarskaya zachen . . . Chachomim Hizaharu b'divreichem!
Good taste and regard for her as a human being ( I attended her funeral coming by Subway from WH) causes me to refrain form adding to my earlier comment. I will only ask again what occuopied the rebbetzin in some 40 odd years ?
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbetzin Nechama Dina had little public role after 1950 for various reasons "vehamevin Yavin " , not the least of which was the fact that she was close to being deaf.
ReplyDeleteAs far as R. Channa Schneerson-Gourary C,mon ! Rebetzin Mushka was smart enough to know that if the Rashag was not made rebbe , his wife was not going to be rebbetzin with the he hayediao.
The wife of the shamash is the shameshta not the rebbetzin ...
Try again with another teretz..
Who is Shalom Halpert. If he is a lunatic maybe he and I are related ?
ReplyDeleteschneur
ReplyDeleteI fail to see why everything Lubavitch is looked at throught the prism of Reb Berke z"l.
tzig,
ReplyDeletethe passport part that has the name on it is concealed; do you have it in full ?
the kashe stays ,if evreyone was trained to be a General why did she remain a Private
ReplyDeleteThe passport picture is from 2 years ago. That's what I have.
ReplyDeletethis passport data contradicts the official chabad data. Mustn't be a conspiracy, but they still don't add up.
ReplyDeleteSo was she born in Uder or in Uv ?
ReplyDeletethe former.
ReplyDeleteBased on what ?
ReplyDeleteBased on what her biography says.
ReplyDelete25 Adar 5661 Babinovitch (Mogilevsker Gubernye, IIRC).
Schneur, what have you been doing in the last forty years of your life? Again, Tsarskaya Zachen -M'misht zach nit arayn in Rebbe'ske Zachen.
ReplyDeleteher autobiography ?
ReplyDeletePassport says 28 Av, same year. In Smolensk gubernie (which is right there of course). Does this biography cite sources ?
no, not autobiography. That's the date that's used, I'm not aware of the exact source.
ReplyDeleteIs the date on the passport the date of registration perhaps?
ReplyDeleteIt says "time and place of birth". Did the biographer take the usual route here ?
ReplyDeleteShneur slowly becoming an unterveltnik? This must the influence of someone, perhaps Tzemach? Or someone new in your life in the real world? You are usually not this obtuse.
ReplyDeleteI am sure that you know that one of the things she enjoyed was frequent contact with her sister. Until her sister stabbed her in the back.
mottel will rewrite schneur's history and be told that it is Hechere Zachen
ReplyDeletegurevitzer ,the sister did not stab her in the back remember she was a private person back then, family interests came first and gladly wanted Barry should have money its after she lost contact with her best sister and aged terriably was she coached into "the chasidim are the rebbens kinder"
ReplyDeleteThere was a family agreement on this matter. When the sister broke the agreement, and did so with deceit, it is accurate to say that she stabbed her sister in the back. There had been no contact lost until the theft was discovered.
ReplyDeleteGuravitzer,
ReplyDeleteYou are so predictable (and partisan and boring...)
This blog is for people who try to think....What do you add by giving us the party line?We all went to the same schools and heard all the slogans.We've outgrown them.If you don't wan't to discuss issues you feel may be disrespectful-Don't comment, instead of adding your silly partisan two cents.
Btw, do you think you give me a lot of nachas claiming that the Frierdiger Rebbes daughter stabbed her sister in the back??Do you think that I as a Lubavitcher feels better by that silly twist to the story??
Grow up already!!
Tzemach was right in banning you, not because you are not a decent fellow, which I'm sure you are, rather for reminding us of the Peh Tzadeh at a good going farbrengen who ruins the mood by not getting a tipsy enough and being the idiot who gets on everyones nerves!
Joe -I don't rewrite history, but I know may place in not trying to parade people's private lives in the public in a sick and perverse desire to besmirch people greater then I, while calling all those with a thread of decency in their bodies 'Kool Aid sippers.'
ReplyDeleteWhat you and your ilk posses is nothing less then the currently in vogue liberally tendency to prove the 'Humanity' of anyone of stature (most often to justify your own short comings).
Yanky
ReplyDeleteyou seem to be the predictable newly Oofgeklerte guy who likes to believe what your adversary says, even if the adversary tells you things that are counter to Torah.
family agreement ?? did the agreement say (If there was any agreement)that krinsky inherits before Barry ?and if barry does reconize the Rebbe in Private he is stripped from his inheritance
ReplyDeletethe rebtzin could be a private person but barry cant ??the old rebbitzen Nechoma Dina also did not reconize the rebbe and the family agreemnt was.......
Barry had no sons.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that EVERY conversation needs to become a slugfest?!
Scneour
ReplyDeleteYou an interesting mix.On the one hand you challenge a lot of the classical myths, but than you yourself accept some and ask 'kashes' based on them.
Example:You state that The Rebbitzen was an educated person.Now,I don't know if that is true or false,but would love to know what you are basing yourself on?
There were no Bais Yaakovs in Russia........and though I think she may have attended a college in Berlin in all liklihood she was similar to the many women of her time and they were not particularly 'educated', yes even daughters of rabbonim.
Do you think she would not have taken a position in Bais Rivka??
hershel,the rebbe had no childern and never legaly adopted any ,Barry did legaly adopt 2 girls and has fine frum grand childern and are not yet lubavitchers
ReplyDeleteanonymous
ReplyDeleteThanks for the education.....
So if he adopted girls you're his son? huh?
curious historian,
ReplyDeleteto allege that rebbetzen CMS wasn't an educated person is simply atrocious. Many women of her time of those geographical regions actually were very education, had much respect for education and had knowledge of disciplines and affairs that was uncomparably better then those of people who run places like Beis Rivka/Yaakov/Ruchel/Shifra Miryam et al. And that's _before_ the higher education instance.
It's precisely the reason and the context why kleinkeppige retards come eons after the times discussed and try to squeeze lofty concepts into their tiny goaty brains, with such a spectacular failure...
It's precisely the reason and the context why kleinkeppige retards come eons after the times discussed and try to squeeze lofty concepts into their tiny goaty brains, with such a spectacular failure...
ReplyDeleteNatchalnik
I happen to know your exact age, so cut the crap. You do the same things, even more eons later.
What does this have to do with age ? Can you actually contribute something to a conversation other then your usual "you-too" menu of feces throwing monkey ?
ReplyDeleteIt means - Zaraze - that I do just what you do and claim to despise: Come after the fact and decide for yourself what was and what should've been, and how you would've done it differently, all decades and centuries later.
ReplyDeleteu.n,
ReplyDeleteI asked how anybody knowes that The Rebbitzen was educated?
Don't give me b.s answers...
In all probability she was not what we would call today 'educated'
That does not mean she was not a special person etc.
Her dad was a busy man and in those days IF you did not go to Bais Yaakov(founded to late for her)AND your father did not teach you, you were NOT educated.
And I'm moise modo'o me'ato:Please don't post retarded comments of 'how dare you say!"I did not say anything.I asked for some proof, such as a teaching post, a lecture etc...
i am reading all the guesses of all the "curious historians" who try to come to some conclusions without any historic knowledge.
ReplyDeletei have known the rebetzin ( we are related by marriage ). she was a person who had a tremendous talent to conceaal anything she did. whatever they are trying to put together in the new videos, books, doesnt scratch the serice. those who are questening what she was busy with dont even know the one hiddem part of her activities which became known - her trip to france to assist the russian - chassidic refugees with their settlement. if they dont even know that fact how could they know other facts which were not revealed. what i wonder about is why do these bitter negative people always try to assume the negative. well... good luck to them.
i am not going to give any details and i will not try to prove anything - i was not given permission. but i know the amount of work she did behind the scenes. for all the rest - why assume she didnt when she may have?
about questions regarding her education - i laugh. for years they tried to say the rebbe never learnt in sorbonne and when the papers were publicised they went quiet. if somebody just heard the rebetzin speak in yidish he could tell that it was the yidish of an educated person and not the typical yidish spoken by yidn fun der heym. but then you have to know yidish to pick it up. to me university doesnt make you educated but just for the reccord - she did complete university and she was very well read both jewish and secular. her russian was also very very educated.
Here's the catch-22
ReplyDeleteIf you tell people she was educated and fluent in languages then you alienate those that shun secular education, and rightfully so. If you tell people that she wasn't then the edgemecated ones look down at her, as if. The same goes for the Rebbe's secular education; most frummies look down on it.
Just a thought.
So here we have Reb. CMS being debated why she didn't or if she did - what she did - for the betterment of Klall Yisroel. The best we seem to get is that she allowed the rebbe to be rebbe. Great, but really not that great. Does anyone really think that she would have preferred him working on'secret projects' in the Navy?
ReplyDeleteAnd as for those who praise her as being educated, have you all forgotten what the rebbe's views were about secular education??
OTOH the old Satmar rebbetzen (who indeed was a strong and tough individual) who helped thousands and thousands of families financially, supplying food and clothing for their children, organising the famous Bikur Cholim etc etc etc - (and lav davka for Satmar families), who helped marry off hundreds or rather thousands of kallas in NY and in EY, who was an address for help to anyone who required it (yes many families in CH were amongst the recipients), punkt she gets bashed here in a most nasty and disgusting manner.
The shvantz who posted against her, should go to her kever with a minyan and beg for her forgiveness.
We all agree that she would have received kovod if she had wanted to, regardless of her "deserving" it. Therefore, the fact that she consciously avoided kovod speaks to her modesty, and, if you will, her intense desire to avoid "undeserved" kovod.
ReplyDeleteTo turn this simple concept on its head and to argue that she didn't deserve kovod anyway, is to miss the whole point of her speciallness as a person.
" moish said...
ReplyDeleteHere's the catch-22
If you tell people she was educated and fluent in languages then you alienate those that shun secular education, and rightfully so. If you tell people that she wasn't then the edgemecated ones look down at her, as if. The same goes for the Rebbe's secular education; most frummies look down on it.
Just a thought.
Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:11:00 PM"
And therefore, you simply tell the truth. As those who claimed that the Rebbe had never been at the Sorbonne found out to their chagrin.
Shpitz
ReplyDeleteYour numbers should be reduced, it wasn't thousands it was still hundreds , there were no thousands of Chasanim in NY that needed financial help,
All her good deeds does not answer all the rifts that she caused that are a Bechio Ledoros, In the Satmar philosophy there is a cardinal concept you are not to take social help from Oivrie Aviero no matter if they look like Gerrers(Litzman) Or Visnitzer(Halpert)
By the way why was she allowed to be in front and center by all Satmar events on the the dais between the meshamshim ?
shpitz - your point about not bashing the satmarer rebetzin is well taken - no one should be bashed. but ( re the lubavicher rebetzin /the fact that you just ignored everything i have written shows that you are not interested in emes and its not even worth to debate anything- you will always look at certain things negatively without any limud zchus and thats very sad - for you that is.
ReplyDeletea gutn shabos