Here's a picture of the Satmar Rov zt"l in Switzerland immediately after WWII, or rather, while WWII was still going on, early 1945. Pictured with him are Reb Yossel Ashkenazi,z"l, and YBL"C Rav Yosef Rosenblum, Reb Dovid Heller, Rav A.L. Steinman
Maybe we can talk about this.
I think your still in middle of the early years of the Tzig. You were about to get to the good part.
ReplyDeleteASK YOR READERS OPINION ON THE LINK I ADDED TO END OF THIS COMMENT
ReplyDeleteBY THE WAYY WHY DO YOU LET SUCH COMMENT GO BY WITH ANY REMARKS ?
"secular existence"" ??????
Daas Torah??? said...
At least the Bobover Rebbe felt guilty enough to cling to his secular existence before being persuaded to take the mantle of leadership.
Learn the sad history of the Chasidic leadership and how they survived the war while their followers perished.
The lesson to learn is THINK FOR YOURSELF. Never be mevatel your daas to another.
Monday, February 25, 2008 11:09:00 PM
http://www.yoel-ab.com/katava.asp?id=117
The link wouldn't open, but I know it's that silly anti-dati Leumi site.
ReplyDeleteHow about more discussion on Chabad, it's present and future.
ReplyDeleteHow about some discussion regarding the Ger/Chabad relationship. Primarily, how they view the relationship.
ReplyDeleteHow about, "The murder of normative Judaism by the 'Gedolim', 'Rabbonim', and 'Askanim', vis a vis Lipa"?
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:22 -tired and pointless.
ReplyDeletewho's who in the picture???
ReplyDeleteMaybe now that Tzemach Atlas retired tou've lost your whole raison detre' and your muse is gone?
ReplyDeleteHow about what does chassidus means today in the Jewish world we live in? What does it stand for? Why is it necessary? And not just Lubavitch.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I am interested in seeing how people put into words their perceptions how one chassidic group differs from the other, in the past and today? How does a Klausenberger differ from a Bobover? Which group best represents the Sanzer.
You guys have real knowledge others are chalishing to know.
I've attended concerts for 30 years, it's nice to see they are on top of things and decided to ban them now.Let's see if they have any guts and they go after Ohel, Hasc, etc. where the real money is. Against Lipa it's easy , I bet they find a "heter" for the money boys.
ReplyDeleteNisht Emes, Bray. some of the best material came way after TA left the world of blogs. There are ups and downs here, this is a short down. For various reasons.
ReplyDeletewhat have you done to shloime gertner?
ReplyDeleteSecular existence indeed. Your Bobover rebbe survived the war in part by acting like a non-Jew in Europe and when he came to the US continued his secular living. This doesn't make him any less of a man, it's just who he was.
ReplyDeleteThe Satmar rebbe, who was saved from the Nazi war machine by the Zionists he spent the rest of his life condemning his saviors.
The Belz rebbe gave an inspiring farewell speech to his Hungarian hosts thousands of them) assuring them he wasn't running from anything and that they would suffer nothing more than terror. He escaped to Palestine while the people he misled died (in terror).
My point is simple. These were human beings. They made mistakes (or worse, but let's give them the benefit of some doubt).
The problem with our society today stems from the need to deify human beings.
We are the Jewish people. We don't worship people, we worship G-d.
so hirshel, do you get your gefilte with a carrot?
ReplyDeleteHow does a Klausenberger differ from a Bobover? Which group best represents the Sanzer.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal87.html
I know it sounds like a little kid who opens a big story book and just likes to look at the pictures - but when you have nothing to write - just post some nice pictures like this one of the heilige Satmar Rebbe ZY"O. I wrote once before that I like to look at your archives - you have some really awesome and rare pictures of the tzadikim of the last dor. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteWhy won't you tackle the myriad of problems in Chabad, chief amongst them, why no new rebbe is being appointed???
ReplyDeleteYeah, I know the classic Lubab answer, 'you don't understand'!.Oh, yeah,you need to be a rocket scientist to 'understand'??
One of the 'brilliant' answers is that 'nobody can fill his shoes'
Well, in my mind that is the ultimate insult to the late Rebbe.Was this leader such a poor teacher that out of the thousands of young men who went through Lubavitcher yeshivas, there is not even one to fill his shoes???
But yes,I know the Tzig will not even allow this discussion here.He is much more interested in washing the dirty laundry of Aguda,C.Berlin, the 'gedoilem' etc.Anything despite the problems in his back yard.
'It's all their fault for not being mekabel malchus'
bray of fundie...very cute and clever and indeed I understand what you are talking about and to some extent agree. BUT these small differences are part and parcel of the richness of charedi life and of interest both to the participants and to relative outsiders. Second if indeed there are differences in the derech in avodah of one subgroup vs. another it isn't such a gornisht. These diffeent derachim are of value to Jews everywhere.
ReplyDeletelets just ignore chaim ber - he spoils the whole mood of the blog with his farbisnkeit. what a sorry charecter!
ReplyDeleteI have seen pictures of the Bobover REbbe while still in Europe, in rebbishe clothing. You are full of baloney
ReplyDeleteThe Bobover resumed his rebbesche role in Europe. He went through several stages of recovery. All of this in my opinion speaks well of him. Apparently after the war he took a leave of absence. Next he no longer wished to assume the mantle of leadership and the Anash in London wished to appoint the Vaitzner rav as new Bobover rebbe , but his followers won the day. By 1947 he was a full rebbe maybe earlier.
ReplyDeleteBut as a Bobover told me he always wore a regular shirt not a right on left ( which with a collar is an American invention) as a reminder of the bad days .
I just met a fine elderly Yid here in WH who went through the whole Concentration camps and after the War in the US joined Bobov on the Upper west Side. Although he left to become a regular Shul Yid , he speaks highly of the mentchiskayt of the rebbe and his son and MM Rav Naftulche
An interesting recollection from Bucharest 1945:
ReplyDeletethe Imrei Chaim and the Buhuser Rebbe were both sharing Divrei Torah during a Shalasudas at the Beis Medrash of the Kimplinger, Rav Rubin.
the Bobover Ruv, who was also present was silent throughout the meal.
This distrubed the the Kimplinger who kept on repeating "Bobover Ruv, Zug Toyre!" finally the Bobover relented and said a short Dvar Torah.
It seems he was very broken at this point of his life, having suffered tremendous loss. It is a wonder how he rebounded and created a Kehila L'shem Ulitiferes.
אידן זאגן אז הרב שטיינמאן האט ביי זיך פילע חידושי תורה וואס ער האט דאן געשריבען פון סאטמארן רבי'ן זייענדיג דער עמטליכער "תורה שרייבער" אין די שווייץ
ReplyDeleteJust for the record, I asked Horav Dovid Heller Shlit"a (formerly of Lugano, Switzerland - currently in Boro Park) to identify the people in the picture. Well, neither he, nor Rav Rosenblum, nor Rav Shteinman are in the picture, though the young bochur all the way to the right is his younger brother R' Shimshon Heller Z"L.
ReplyDeleteThe picture was taken before Pesach 1945 by baking Matzohs. Rav Steinman at that time was already living in a different city, and was not there. Rabbi Heller was there, and there are other pictures with him in it.
He identified the people in this picture as follows;
From Left to Right- Bollag, M Gross (father of Belzer Dayan in BP), Satmar Rov, Y Ashkenazi, Unidentified, Unidentified, Flintenstein (Brother of Kapisnetzer’s Son-in-Law), Unidentified, Pinter, Shimshon Heller.
Correction: It was before Pesach 1944
ReplyDeletethanks for the clarification on that!
ReplyDeleteI double-checked with Rabbi Heller, it was April 1945 a few weeks before the war ended.
ReplyDelete