RNZW of Bilka, HYD (l)
The 13th of Sivan is the Yohrtzeit of Reb Yitzchok Eizik Weisz of Spinka, HY"D, known as the Chakal Yitzchok. Me being a former Spinker Talmid I remember these things, despite having left so many years ago. I'll bet some of the Groise Chassidim totally never knew that date. Three years ago we wrote about newly-discovered photographs of the CI's son, Reb Naftoli Zvi of Bilka, HYD, who was photographed by a Nazi photographer as he waited to die Al Kiddush Hashem. Which brings us to today's topic du jour, which I know is redundant. In Hungarian Kehillos many of the old folks have Yohrtzeit during the spring months. From after Pesach till Tammuz there's a procession of old yiddelach who daven for the Omud, get maftir, and give kiddush for their deceased loves ones who were gassed during the terrible summer of '44. In non-Hungarian kehillos you don't get that, and I would dare say the remembering isn't what it should be there. Not that it's their fault; it's just that the concentration and the quick pace of the deportation and the extermination at least forced us to remember every year. The Poylishe often had no idea when the killings took place, and the Russians had their issues. The end result is that for the last decade and a half I haven't had the chance to have that saturated summer of remembrance....
RNZ and his father RYI at the levaya of his sometimes adversary, the Minchas Elozor of Munkacs, 2 Sivan, 5697.
The photo is from a book printed by a survivor who found in auschwitz a german photo album. It is k'dai to check it out, the pictures are startling and really drive home the issue. I think her name is Lily Meier. It was reprintd recently as "The Auschwitz Album".
ReplyDeleteThe photo is from the same website that Tzig is fascinated with. He posted regarding maintaining the Tzelem Elokim at death's door from similar photos.
ReplyDeleteHe is on the payroll and gets a commission from the sellers' of Tylenol PM
tzig, if you would have any intelectual honesty you would have read kamenetzkys piece in the new yeshurun about RSZ.
ReplyDeletedon't quit your day job, Ner Izzy.
ReplyDeleteand you would read Darwin...
ReplyDeleteI am in Kollel. You automatically assume a 'Ner Izzy' guy is working, right?
ReplyDeleteNer Yisroel,
ReplyDeleteWhat site is The Tzig obsessed with and what do you mean by him getting a comission from the sellers of Tylenol pm?
I actually think that the Tzig is trying to prove his Lubab credentials, in the piece he says and I quote: " Me being a former Spinker Talmid I remember these things, despite having left so many years ago. I'll bet some of the Groise Chassidim totally never knew that date. "What he is trying to bring out is that he left "so many years ago"i.e he is already a bonafide Lubab because he left the Spinka yeshiva so many years ago and joined Lubavitch
Funny that he brings out that he remembers the yohrtzait and Groiseh chasidim totally never knew that(whats with this double negative "totally never"?)Actually for people who know a bit, there are very few real Spinka chasidim and R'Shmuel Tzvi Horowitz z'l known as R'Hershele Spinker eynikel of the Chakal Yitzchok who had a large following acquired that following because of his own saintly personality, not the fact that he was an aynikel.So I'm not sure what "groiseh chasidim" he refers to and I also don't know how he decided that these unknown groiseh chasidim don't know the date of the yohrtzait.
An interesting slip is where he says that for the last decade and a half he has not had the chance to be saturated with Hungarian yohrtzaits in the summer.As I understand it that is when he joined Lubavitch inc.Well The Rebbe passed away almost exactly 15 years ago ,"decade and a half"and suffered a stroke two and a half years prior to that and was not accessible to the public.To make a long story short, the Tzig who is the trying to be the mouthpiece of Lubavitch never got to know the Rebbe! Even if he was taken to Lubavitch as a child 18 years ago, getting a dollar on a sunday from the Rebbe does not make you a "big maven " on him.
The Tzig needs to know his place
I don't really get why you are attacking me with that darwin line, I actually studied darwin when taking the biology regents exam. but you my friend, are you comparing the work of rabbi dovid kamenetzky in the most recent yeshurun where he just loads the praise on RSZ to darwinism???!!!??? Get a grip man!
ReplyDeleteBurech
ReplyDeleteגיי שנעל און טרעף א דאקטאר
טאקע א פרייוועט דאקטאר, נישט פון די קליניק
sorry, Anon
ReplyDeleteI thought you were talking about a disparaging article by DK. Hence the Darwin analogy. Send me a PDF.
Burech
ReplyDeleteMy supposed "slips" are figments of your demented imagination. I davened in Hungarian Kehillos looooong after joining Lubavitch.
"I davened in Hungarian Kehillos looooong after joining Lubavitch."
ReplyDeleteWhy the long "loooong"?
You did not join Lubavitch that looong ago.You never knew the Rebbe and it shows.
"I thought you were talking about a disparaging article by DK"
Again your newcomer colors are coming out.R'Kaminetzky is a gifted student of history and an excellent writer and editor in a top notch Torah journal.You fear truth.You close your eyes like the Bas Yaano, who thinks that if you don't see it did not happen.See your fellow Lubavitchers who think that if you say the Rebbe is alive it makes it so.If you say the Rebbe is Nosi Hador, something that ALL Lubavitchers say, it makes it so ("a decade and a half" after..)
I would love to see R'Kaminetzky's piece.Someone has mentioned it for some time already over here.
N.B The "trick" of sending someone who speaks uncomfortable truths to a "doktor" is at least as old as Stalin, in this I'm in good company with real Lubavitcher chasidim that the communists sent to "doktoyrem".Lately the well known mashpia Y.K was also called crazy because he realized that prior to the Rebbes passing he had made a mistake.You continue with your fantasies.
Are you sure you aren't a Litvak? Look at you being sad that you missed a chance to get depressed.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why I bother, but here goes
ReplyDeleteBurech, there are those here that know me, you're NOT one of them. Please stop telling me and the readers what I saw, when I did things and how old I am. OK?
Also, you're paranoid rant about why I posted the Bilker HYD's picture gives us a clear picture of who you are.
Now look behind you; there's a black car with two men tailing you....
I said nothing about you posting the picture of the Bilker,I addressed your mention of how "loooong", all of a decade and a half, that you (think you....) are not part of the Hungarian diaspora.To me it felt that you were trying to show what a "bonafide" chosid you are, to which I basically pointed out that you never even knew the Rebbe!
ReplyDeleteI notice that you do not address the comment you made about "even the groiseh chasidim" don't know the date of the yohrtzait, to which I asked which "groiseh chasidim" you mean and who says they don't know.
Lastly, you talk about other peoples "paranoia" but immediately thought that R'kaminesky's piece in Yeshurun was "disparaging".Now that's not being paranoid,right?Right!
burech
ReplyDeleteIf you take a couple of Tylenol PM's you would instantaneously understand what Tzig is saying
Tzig - Thanks you again for a great post.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, even those of use who still frequent Hungarian Kehillos are experiencing this period less and less. There are so few left that are clamoring for the amud during these sad weeks.
I am lucky enough to still have 3 of my grandparents. It always puts a damper on my Yom Tov, when I get the phone call from my grandparents on Erev Shavuos reminding me to remember to learn Mishanoyos over Yom Tov for their parents, brothers, sisters, etc. that were gassed over Yom Tov.
AK
ReplyDeleteI just read a good story about survivors. I can't remember where, though.
Anyways, these before and after photos are something.
Tzig, You must be really desperate. Why in hell do you post every stupid idiotic comment? Thanks for the 2 pictures. Clearly the same person. Son of Chakal Yitzchok, Unbelievable!! Presumably taken at arrival at Aushwitz after the 24-36 hour torturous harrowing packed cattle wagon ride without food drink or toilets. Facing death in the face, with the only thing they're left with - their beards - their proud symbol of who they are and what they stand for. That's after defying the nazi decree in the Ghetto to shave all beards, which almost everyone did. What a Kiddush Hashem!
ReplyDeleteDK is a unabashed Chabad basher, going all the way back to Alter Rebbe; one needn't be paranoid to expect Chabad-bashing from him when the topic is Chabad! wheras me, when the topic is Auschwitz there doesn't have to be an ulterior motive. That is unless you think that the car behind you is FBI.
ReplyDeletewhich Groise Chassidim? do I need to mention names?
You're a piece of work, Burech; there's no topic that doesn't allow for simple historical conversation w/o getting Chabad into the picture, right?
what can I say? I'm trying to show that I allow free and open exchange of opinions here, no matter how stupid....
ReplyDeleteNer,
ReplyDeleteTylenol pm's put you to sleep.Do you mean that you have to be "be'olom hadimyon" to understand him?
I actually think I understand where he is coming from:He is not comfortable with himself (for whatever reason)and thinks that he''ll reach that comfort zone if he becomes "an emmeseh chosid".That will not happen because one has to be accepting of who they are.The reason for the dissatisfaction is internal.When we get sidetracked we blame everyone else for our lack of internal peace.It could be our parents, it could be our siblings, our community etc.This explains how he is desperate to fit in in Lubavitch, not to criticize them chas vesholom etc.He thinks this will quieten his soul.
I'm sorry it won't.
This has nothing to do with Chasidim or Misnagdem ,Satmar or Lubavitch.We all have the need for inner peace an accepting of ourselves.Few can actually attain it, but that is the real "avoidoh".
Human beings have their basic needs:We cannot be healthy in mind or body without them.We need food, we need intimacy,love, we need to quench our souls yearnings.When we don't get those things we "act up".Just like my young one acts up when he does not get food,sleep or attention.With young people it's much easier to address their needs .They are not yet damaged, their needs are no so complex, they have not built up defense mechanisms that help in the short term but really screw up down the line.
Tzig, if you want and it makes you happy call this a "rant".However, you may want to try and think it over
The following is an axample of how difficult it is to have a dialogue.
ReplyDelete"DK is a unabashed Chabad basher, going all the way back to Alter Rebbe; one needn't be paranoid to expect Chabad-bashing from him when the topic is Chabad! wheras me, when the topic is Auschwitz there doesn't have to be an ulterior motive. That is unless you think that the car behind you is FBI."
Tell me Sir,
How many articles by R'D Kaminetzky have you read that you call him a an unabashed basher?
Is it zero or one?
But you have already decided.Because?
You see it's difficult to discuss with people who have automatic responses.
is one enough, or does it have to be 24?
ReplyDeleteOne is not even a start.
ReplyDeleteYou once posted a sicha from the Rebbe here regarding the churban bais hamikdosh.If I was to judge the Rebbe based on this talk it would not be favourable.But, this is only one of thousands of talks, happened to be that you did not choose a very good one.
Do you want your blog to be judged on one of your partisan Lubab "blowups" posts, which sound paranoid and silly?I guess not.
My hunch is that you never even read one article by R'Kaminetzky, very similar to Lubavitchers who were all over R'Bergers book but then admitted to not having even read it.
Your good friends probably "basheigetsed" R'Kaminetzky.For you that is enough.It's a shame that you are not a truth seeker, who tries to form their own opinion
Burech
ReplyDeleteand we wouldn't want to judge you based on your comments here - as many and as similar as they are - right?
My friends are all well-learned and have more time and brains for reading Kamenetzki.
DK has no qualms about his opinions about Chabad.
I seek out the truth, I looked for a derech that was more suitable to my needs and found it, DG. Whereas you?!
Bekitser....
ReplyDeleteYou admit to not even reading a piece from R'Kaminetzky....
You are just "relying" on your very "impartial" friends.
Ok.
I guess my definition of a truth seeker is a wee bit different than yours.
Oy ,
Once upon a time Chabad "hot gemont emmes"
Bekitser, no!
ReplyDeleteI read the first piece from him, last year.
"I seek out the truth, I looked for a derech that was more suitable to my needs and found it"
ReplyDeleteSorry to point the obvious out:"Seeking the truth" and something "more suitable for my needs" is almost a contradiction.
Re:Your "needs".I'm curious if you read my earlier post about peoples needs.Btw, that post was not written with any cyniscm
Curious if in your "book" there exists something called "valid critiscm".
ReplyDeleteR'Kaminetsky had some critical things to say about one of the lineage in the piece you are probably referring to.To me at the time they seemed pretty valid.So without getting in to the actual technicalities, because much time has passed and I don't remember the subject matter well enough, do you accept that sometimes there is such a "musag" as valid criticism or by definition anybody being critical about Lubavitch cannot be right, hence the "basher tag"
Hirschel - I must tell you ever since I saw your post yesterday, I have been haunted by that picture. I don't know what it is, but I can't get it out of my head. So real and so tragic.
ReplyDeleteI hope Obama will put mental care in his health care bill for Burech needs it deperate, what a stretch
ReplyDeleteLooks like Burechs mind got gassed in Buchenwald
ReplyDeleteFor all you obsessed Chabad Bashers
ReplyDeleteYour Buddy Kamemetzky was already along time ago refuted in a professional manner on the Seforim Vesofrim Website more then 2 months ago.
Burech,
ReplyDeleteFor me its enough that every maskil in Lita as Satanov he has a big agenda to whitewash him, but the Kedoishei Elyon are thieves and cheats,
Asher Timasi Tiharti...
' getting a dollar on a sunday from the Rebbe does not make you a "big maven " on him.'
ReplyDeleteNu Burech'el, and tell us about you aquired Meiveinus on Tzaddikim! How much Keegal does one have to Zoaf, beginning at what age, to become a Maven (sic) on a Tzaddik.
'Once upon a time Chabad "hot gemont emmes" '
Yes, yes, another subject you are OBVIOUSLY a Maven on.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteall the pictures that you claim were "discoverd " are old printed pictures, I remember 35 years ago a book by the name Zichron Kedsohim (Rosman?) had alot of these photos
Yes
ReplyDeleteI was told last night that Rosman in ראשי גולת אריאל has the Bilker pictures. I read the book years ago. What surprises me is that the Holocaust museum says that the pics were recently discovered!
And that the Yid next to the Bilker Rov is Rav Moshe Wercberger, HYD, dayan in Orshive.
ReplyDeleteBpunbound,
ReplyDeleteYou must be one of the friends about whom the Tzig said the following "My friends are all well-learned and have more time and brains for reading Kamenetzki."
This time he is selling himself short, he has way more brains than you (unfortunately that is not saying much)
Re:Your "mevinus".Let me say this much:Any rebbe that you have "mavinus" on is not getting my kvittel gelt.
Tzig
ReplyDeleteWhat surprises me is that the Holocaust museum says that the pics were recently discovered!
I see you still have the charadie mentality that only we can be ziefunim.
Burech,
ReplyDeleteYukel, 'meivines' and 'tzadik' don't belong in the same sentence.
If you think they do, please forward your mothers name so I can make a Misheberach for you.
Just for the record, Polish , Lithuanian and White Russian jews know exactly what day and year their shtetlech were destroyed. In an early issue of OR HAMIZRACH, the editor included an extensive catalogue of these dates, for many East European towns.
ReplyDeleteOf course just like in Hungary many do not know the day people died who were deported to places like Treblinka and Chmelno.
Punkt farkert -from what you write most Jews in Lithuanaia and White Russia were murdered on the spot and we bedavka know their Yarzeits. Only a small percentage of these Jews were deported .In the Soviet zone the Nazis implemented the Final Solution on the spot.
In my father's town of Kurenitz the second day of Rosh hashonna marked the day that the Sharee Rachamim were closed and that these town of chassidim and erliche Jews was erased from the Jewish earth. As my father would say Lecho hashe hagedula velanu boshes panim !
Forgive me for writing the folowing. Most charedim know almost nothing about the Holocaust probably never having read even a single book about it in their life.
Secondly most Hungarain survivors given their numbers and the short period they lived under the Nazis assume that theirs is THE story.
AS a Banshak by the name of Halberstam once told me Hungarian Jews were under Hitler for a short time and never stop talking of the Nazi atrocities. Polsih Jews spent between 3.5-5 years under hitler and never begin to talk... that s how zubrochen it left them.
schneur
ReplyDeletewhere could I find out the day cherson was ... by the nazis ym"sh.
as for white russia you are correct my Great Grandparents were murdered in paritch and we know the date.
BTW, the Minchas Eluzar once told the CI, the "with a child like the Bilka Rov, one can sleep quitely at night".
ReplyDeleteThe Bilka Ruv was a mismid ozum.
Please post more information about the Bilker Rov and Bilka
ReplyDeleteShneur
ReplyDeleteEver speak to the Poylishe about the Hungarion sufferring? Some wave their hands and say, ah, it was nothing.