דער משפיע ר' שלמה חיים קסלמן ע"ה מיט תלמידים
Sometimes a comment deserves to be "mined" not for length of comment, but rather for its on-the-mark points. This is one of those comments. Quick, to the point, and, best of all, in a lip-smacking Yiddish that would make the old times proud. Abarbanel has shown us his talents before, and here he does not disappoint.
אברבנאל קאמענטירט צו צירק געצעלט
פֿאַראַן ניגונים און פֿאַראַן ניגונים. פֿאַראַן ניגונים וואָס ברענגט דעם מענטש צו התפּעלות אדער געגועים, װי אַ שטייגער ניגונים פֿון קאַליבער צדיק מיט די פֿייגעלעך, בלומעלעך, שעפֿעלעך אא"װ. נאָכדעם איז פֿאַראַן קאָמפאָזיציעס װאָס מאַכן אײַנגענעם דעם גלות קאַלעמוטנעם הערצעלע...אַ שטייגער די מאָדשזיצער אַפּאָרעטער מיט איר געקונצעטע דריידעלעך און לומדישע תנועות
אַ חב"דער ניגון איז איגאנצן אַ צװייטער סדרה.א חב"ד ניגון שניידט שטיקער אָן קיין רחמנות, ס´פֿאָדערט און צװינגט דעם מענטשן זיך איבערצוקערן איגאַנצן. אַ פױלישער ניגון נעמט אַסאַך פֿעלער ביז עס קומט צום פֿונקט ווי ס´הייבט אָן קראַצן. אַ חב"ד ניגון אָבער שפּרונגט אַרײַן דורכן פֿענסטער, און גראָד ביים ערשטן טאַקט מאכט עס דיר אַ לעבעדיגער אַפּאָראַציע
בימי חורפי, ביי אַ פֿאַברענג אין ירושלים התחיל זקן א´ לפזם התנועה עסען עסט זיך וכו´ אין מעי המו בקרבי מיינע קישקעס האָבן זיך גענומען דרייען ע"פ פשט ממש און די אַלע אַפּעטיטלעכע פּאָטראַוועס האָבן מיר פשוט גענומען איבּלען..
מה נאמר ר´ ציג...כל השירים קודש ושירי חב"ד קודש קדשים...כ´קאַן שרייבן און שרייבן..אָבער גיי זיי מסביר בלינדע "שיינעדיקע לעכט". מ´איז פֿאַרטעמפּט און צע'חושט ביז איבער די נאָז
is reb shloma chaim making kidush? havdala?
ReplyDeleteI expect the next post to be on Niguney Novordik and maybe on R' Burech Ber's nigunim (and how the time he sang a niggun in for the Rebbe and the Rebbe didn't like it and he never sang it again, but then they klered if maybe R'Chaim only meant that the word's don't shtim with the niggun, not that the niggun wasn't good..)
ReplyDeleteOr, get a hold of R' Moshe Shmuel, one of your favorites, singing negunim.
Rav shapiro of beer yakov was big into minagdic nigunim
ReplyDeletemr abarbanel if kaliver songs dont touch you at the first momoent , that may be an indication of a trait on your side
ReplyDeleteYou stand for Havdala and there wont be any pictures of Kiddush. My guess is it's sheva brochos.
ReplyDeleteMr. Abarbanel... Nice poetry. But don't get carried away like that. Emes, "some" Chabad nigunim are gevaltig. Poilishe also have some tzipedige and geshmakeh nigunim. And I'm not blind, I actually wear oigengleiser.
ReplyDeleteTibi,
ReplyDeletegive us some good Poilishe nigunum, lets analyze them
Anon: Kah Echsof from R' Aharon Karliner for one.
ReplyDeleteקה אכסוף was composed by Reb Osher of Stolin, the tune that is, the words are by RAK.
ReplyDeleteI think anonymous was talking Polish, as in Polish=Poland, not non-Chabad.
I am not into Lubavitcher niggunim generally.So I want to ask a serious question.Are Chabad niggunim something that you have to listen often to until the taste comes something like an acquired taste or did it grab the people who love them immediately?
ReplyDeleteFor example Avremel Fried as opposed to Mordechai Ben David: though Fried has a well trained voice the beauty of the niggunim he sings cannot compare to MBD's.
מיר דוכט זיך אז די בילד איז פון א סעודת ש"ב ביי הרב ר' דוד מאיר דרוקמאן פון קריות
ReplyDeleteאמר אני הק'
ליובאוויטשער ניגונים: דער וואס נישט קיין געשמאק איןם ליובאוויטשער ניגונים צריך בדיקה אחריו
Zhamkeh,
ReplyDeleteIs this a new test for Jewishness, if you don't think Chabad niggunim are great you are not Jewish?
Don't you think that your statement is just silly?
Hirshel
ReplyDeletethe famous Ko Echsof Niggun is not the favorite of the Karliners, and I don't think its from Reb Osher,Lately I heard a beautiful Karliner niggun on Ko echsof with all the karliner Kniechen, but It was Friday night in a camp with no recording
Shimon,
ReplyDeleteTzorich Bedika doesnt exclude you from being Jewish,
Reb Hilel Paricher( if you ever heard from him) said not having a sense in negina reflects on not having a sense in chassidus,
there is interesting statement from the Chasm Sofer regarding Neginah in Sterns 5 volume CS Al hatorah
"Reb Hilel Paricher( if you ever heard from him) said not having a sense in negina reflects on not having a sense in chassidus,"
ReplyDeleteSo??
Again is it me?
I don't like Chabad niggunim.Particularly.
Efraim Man Shach went to get a dollor by the Rebbe. The Rebbe told him that he should tell his father that he doesn't think he is the Mashiach.
ReplyDeleteWhen Rav Shach heard this, he said, 'why is he telling me this, he should tell this to his Chasism'!
Someone asked the Satmar Rov regarding the Chabad. The question related to R’ Yoilesh’s strong stance against chabad- which was not only related to the group’s stance on Zionism which was actually unrepresentative of the Rashab’s views- but there was something about the group that R’ Yoel found disconcerting.
ReplyDeleteThe Satmar Rov replied in the following matter: hypothetically, if he would tell his Chasidim that they all have to clear out their bank accounts and give it to him, what would be their reaction? In Satmar, they wouldn’t listen to their Rebbe. In Lakewood, if R’ Ahron would make a similar request, they would look for loopholes and technicalities to avoid it; they would give over their money to their friends, so it wouldn’t technically be their own, etc. However, if the leader of the known group would make such a request from his followers, they would all, without hesitations, hand over all of their money to his coffers.
Ech ti durin Marko, what are you trying to accomplish with this unsubstantiated stories?
ReplyDeleteMark
ReplyDeleteLong time allready that I didnt hear so much shtusim, is it all from a sole night dream? or it includes dreams from your shabos afternoon?
Shimon
ReplyDeleteSo I lost a sale, noting will make you budge, Vey iz tzu mir.
The Satmarers observation is not limited to Chabad, the same would be true about other Russian chasidusin, like Stolin, for example.
ReplyDeleteNB
Mark,this is an old story,but the version that i heard,goes different,satmarer rebbe said,that if i would tell my chasidim to be mechalel shabbos,the chasidim would pick me up and throw out of the beis hamedrash,but in lubavitch,
ReplyDeletethe chasidim would actualy listen to their rebbe
CHAIM
Anon Fri 11:48 AM -- Just about any Modzitz niggun would qualify :))
ReplyDeleteAnon Fri 3:25 PM -- Could you be a bit more specific about that Chasam Sofer? Which parsha? Pasuk?
And "not having a sense in Negina" doesn't necessary mean appreciating Chabad niggunim, or only them. The statement was a lot more general than that.
Re: Kah Echsof
ReplyDeleteSince Kah Echsof was brought up, could someone help me with something that always bothered me (and don't get me wrong, like the original post I think it is one the best and most hartzige nigunim).
I always found it odd that the classic nigun used does not at all fit the words. Did you ever try to get a few people to sing it together? It is actually funny how everyone "zetzes ain" the words completely different, because the tune by itself doesn't at all fit.
Any thoughts?
many of the Karliner Zemiros nigunim are like that. You just say at your own pace, whenever you'd like. As long as you finish before the song is over!
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget that many Chassidic niggunim were composed as just that, niggunim, without any words. They may have later been adapted to this set of words or that, & depending on who did the adaptation, it may or may not fit as well.
ReplyDeleteIn Modzitz, sometimes the tune fits precisely with the piece it was intended [Mechalkel Chayim or the like], while other times it is more of an approximation - it fits the mood of the words, rather than being "grammatically" perfect, if you get my drift...
Mark/Browserr
ReplyDeleteSatmar Rov never said this difference thing regarding Chabad he said it once purim after he was a little high, on Ruzhiner/ Sadigurer chasidin of yesteryear, since he kept the sanzer machloke running