Friday, October 23, 2009
Nagyan szep
It's tough to get upset at
1) a שוכן עפר
2) a man who sounds like your grandmother, ע"ה
3) a man who's so, so proud of his book about the "Gedoylim"
But the whole concept of an Hungarian/Oberlandisher man being a zealot is an abomination, an anathema, if you will.These Yidden were known for their temimus, for their emunas tzaddikim, and for their bittul to the righteous ones. They didn't write books attacking Tzaddikim in their late 80s and 90s and then pack up and go. I guess he picked that up in Di Lita, and then later in the Holy City of Bene Beraq. I just wish he didn't sound like my deceased ancestors...
Tzig - What is it about Hungarian accented Ivrit that just doesn't sound right? Not just in this clip, I always had the same feeling listen to my Uncles in EY.
ReplyDeleteHungarian accented Yiddish sounds so melodious and Zis, even the English has a nice sound to it. The Ivrit just sounds off.
Any thoughts?
my grandmothers voice is not nearly that deep
ReplyDeleteThe interview was very interesting.The man is about 92 and 100% fresh!.I don't hear the kanous you are talking about.You sure this is not your way of making sure not to be to "complimentary"?
ReplyDeleteBtw, I think you are wrong about your premise that Obelander Hungarians are an anathema to kono'us.Check out Satmar and see that many of the extreme elements are Hungarians of that sort of extraction.Reb Ahralach in E.Yisroel are also of that extraction.Actually the more naive you are the more you can become a "kono'i" since you don't have the backround to know to take things with a pinch of salt.I'm quite sure that in Lubavitch the biggest "troublemakers" are the gevoreners not Gezha and a nice percentage of them are Hungarians.
Your previous post about levush in Lubavitch today and your "mussar" about it is a classic Hungarian style kanous,the kind that one hears from a newer member(you actually alluded to that).To be honest when I read your "history lesson" about the '70's in Chabad and what clothes people wore and how you bemoaned the "situation" today a thought passed through my head of how exactly you "know" all these things when you joined Lubavitch more than two decades later.
I would think most of those who joined R Aron Roth's chevrah were not Oberlandish,
ReplyDeletethe same goes for the Satmarer; the Kanoyim were not the Oberlander.
How do I know about CH?
I didn't join more than 2 decades later, and I know just like you know things from the 20s and 30s even if YOU weren't there.
I think if the geborener would not e asleep at the wheel maybe things would look a little better... VeDal...
A sad fact about Oberland Hungary is that though many survived the War their minhogim and communities are getting weaker and on the brink of extinction.In one of the worst and saddest examples the Viener kehilla in Williamsburg, with the most beautiful shul by far in Williamsburg (an old movie theater)with an array of schools for their children,big Bais Yaakov, boys chaider, yeshiva etc had it's nusach Ashkenaz changed to Sefard! Understand that by the Viener kehilla the nusach used is of major importance.
ReplyDeleteAs others pointed out in previous posts Hungary had more yeshivos that in Lithuania,more people who survived the War,many of them remained Orthodox.Still they have "disapeared" choosing to be led rather than lead, choosing to either go Chasidic or Yeshivish.What are the reasons?Appears to be a community that imported it's leaders from the outside and were always told to follow the leader.
Is there a transcript somewhere?
ReplyDeleteHirshel,
ReplyDeleteHow long ago did you become a member of Lubavitch? From following your blog It sounded like you joined in the 90's.
Oberlanders are not zealots?
ReplyDeleteYou're quite a kidder.
Who are the kanoim in Satmar/Belz/Skvere/Yeshiva etc?
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI repeat the question:
How long ago did you join Lubavitch?
If you find it to personal, just say so,please.
Again
ReplyDeleteI repeat the question:How long ago did you join Lubavitch?
herzog spoke in the chabad shul in yerushalayim shortly after hakomas hamedina and chapped a potch in punem from an alte chabad chosid!
ReplyDeleteheard this from an alte yurshalmi now living in the states with first hand knowledge.
nit kayn kanayim, he?
Anon:354pm
ReplyDeleteTry and make your post understandable,will you?
Tzig,
Did you read Lorentz's book?
I don't really have an idea about what it's about beyond the basic theme of his recollections of his relationship with rabbonim.
Is his book full of kanous?
I have never heard of him as being a konoi, and neither does this interview sound extreme in the least.
Help me out please.
the source of all kanoim are hungerian oberlander
ReplyDeletechabad at least until some point in history was a hotbed of kanoyus as demontrated in the above anon mayse. I'm sure tzig can verify...
ReplyDeleteThis AK prommotes his book as if he wrote the new Mesilas Yeshorim that every Jew has to read it, what a egomaniac,he didnt get it that when Stienman told him he read his book 11 times was just to make the AK feel good, and he buys it for cash, I like the way when he talks about the gedolim from old he count the Gra only and he dosen"t mention the Chasam Sofer that was the holy of the holiest by his rebbes and parents, not be his party colleauges, he is big time in to the Benai Berak brain wash that the Gra was the Manhig Yisroel and he built the Jewry for the years to come , I am not minimizing the Gra's geonois and Kedusha but where does it affect Lorencz in 2009, vs the CS that had an effect for genarations to come,
ReplyDeleteWhere was reb Hilel Kolomayer from? he was basicaly the father of the Tielung and hungarian style Kanois, and he forced the Tielung on the Kesav Sofer and the Mahram Schik, he was Rav in a town called Sikso, no idea Unterland or Uberland
ReplyDeleteDude, if he didn't answer your question the first time, repeating it won't get it out of him now . . . all it does is annoy the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteLook through the archives of this blog and you'll get the answer - tzig's already written it up.
well, Mottel, it could be that I was on the road and moderated his comments via blackberry and couldn't be bothered typing a long answer on a small keyboard...
ReplyDeleteIn any event - repeating the question is obnoxious.
ReplyDeleteRABBOSAI
ReplyDeleteI too know about the Heilige Chasa Sofer, Reb Hillel Kolomayer and the Machne Chaim, but I'm talking Hamon here, not Rabbonim Baalei Shem. Lorencz was no RHK, and his "kano'us" was not the Machne Chaim's.
http://seforim.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteMitzvah Tantz Picture
the whole concept of an Hungarian/Oberlandisher man being a zealot is an abomination, an anathema, if you will.????????????
ReplyDeletewhere was yoeli from?
amshinover
Mottel,
ReplyDeleteLet Hirshel run his blog without you taking over.
Hirshel,
Can you now answer when you joined Lubavitch?
Zalman Shimon
ReplyDeleteMottel is right, I have mentioned it here before. It also seems as if it's a loaded question, rather than a straight-forward one...
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI am quite surprised at you for allowing a poster to "run" your blog.
I don't recall you ever mentioning here when you joined besides writing about getting to know Lubavitch during your mesivta years.
You are making this question into a "loaded" one
ZS
ReplyDeleteso one comment means he's running it?!
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteNow that's a loaded question!
I won't be nasty to a shabbos guest of yours
My first glimpse of the Rebbe was - I believe - in 5745. Or maybe '44.
ReplyDeleteHirshel,
ReplyDeleteLet's not turn this into a "loaded subject".
The question you realize is not when you first saw the Rebbe.
When did you join, when did you become a card carrying member?
ZS
ReplyDelete5749-5750
depending on what you call "card-carrying."
Thank you.
ReplyDelete-ZS: buzz off! I can comment as I wish on this blog - and that includes telling you that your trollish questions are annoying when you repeat them. Act like mentsch.
ReplyDeleteI was today at a store that sells unwanted books,and Lorenczes book is already for sale, I guess the people don't see the profound ideas that Rav Stienman sees in it.
ReplyDeleteFrom Lorentz's book
ReplyDelete":
"יש לציין שלמרות מאבקו הקשה נגד חב"ד כאשר חלה האדמו"ר הרבה להתפל לרפואתו.
שאלתי אז את מרן לפשר הדבר, והוא ענה: מלחמתי היא נגד השיטה הפסולה, אבל לא נגד האנשים באופן אישי, אני מעתיר לרפואתו ויחד עם זאת אני מתפלל שיעזוב את שיטתו הפסולה"
(במחיצתם, ח"א, עמוד 384)
Tzig the true derech in Lita before the War had nothing in common with kanauth. Reb Chaim Eyzer, the Chofetz Chaim , REb Shimen the Kovner rav were not kaanaim, . Sure every chug has kaanaim so in Brisk we had Reb Chaim but we had moderate people like Rav Mayer Simcha and the Marchesheth as well. Even Lubavitz had kaanaoim eg Uriel Zimmer.The yeshiva bachurim were certainly not kaanaim.
ReplyDeleteThe rabbonim in large part were "neyte" to the Mizrachi. The son of the Chofetz Chaim Rav Poupka was president of the mizrachi in Poland.Rabbi Tovya Goldstein Zt'L told a friend of mine ". Reb Elchonon iz geven a mesige mann"No Tzig the zeoltry of RSL is not from Lita its gira dyunkesa from Hungary from teilung, Chadash assur min Hatore etc etc.