ירושלים, תש"ט - למצולמים אין קשר לכתבה
מורי ורבותי, ס'האלט שוין ביי "באו מים עד נפש." איך האלט מער נישט אויס די עקלהאפטיגע אטאקעס וואס איך מוז ליידן פון די אנשי בליעל דא. דא רעדט מען פון מענטשן פונעם דיוטא התחתונה, שלוחי הס"מ, וועלכע זענען נישט מער ווי אנשי עמלק, און האבן געמאכט אלס זייער'ס א מטרה קאלט מאכען פאר אנדערע אידן, און זיי אפשוואכן פון התקשרות בצדיקים, לימוד תורת הבעל שם טוב, און בכלל פון קיום המצוות בהידור. וואס קען מען טוהן מיט די אוממענטשליכע מענטשן? וויזוי קען מען מאכען אן עק צו די אומ"פראוואוקט"ע אטאקעס? פארוואס מוז איך זיך לאזן פון זיי? דער אמת איז איך בין אים דען אויך שולדיג. איך רעד זיך איין אז צוליב "פרייהייט פון אויסדרוק" מוז איך אלץ דורכלאזן, ווייל אז נישט וועט קיינער מער נישט ליינען ואס איך האב צו זאגן. פונקט פארקערט! די מענטשן פארטרייבן מיטלמעסיגער און אומפארטייאישע ליינער מיט זייערע נארישט אטאקעס, און די רעזולטאט איז ווייניקער ליינער און מער שונאים. די עצה איז גאר א פשוט'ער. מיר וועלן נעמן גאר שטרענגע שריטן פון היינט אהן אויס. קאמענטן וואס באלאנגן נישט צו די טעמע פון וועלכע מען רעדט וועלן זאפארט געמעקט ווערן, אהן קיין אויסנאם! נישט קיין חילוק צו ס'איז א ליובאוויטשער צו א מתנגד צו א סאטמארער םון סיי וועלכער פארטיי, צו א געשוואוירענער אגנאסט. טאמער האט איר נישט וואס צו צוגעבן וועגן וואס מען רעדט, איז זייט מוחל שרייבט ערגעץ אנדערש, אפשר ביי כל העולם כולו אדער גאר אין "ישיבה וועלט", אבער נישט ביי אונז! ואין עונשין אלא אם כן מזהירין, ואכמ"ל, וד"ל, וצע"ק, ודפח"ח, ושפת"י, ובלצ"ג ונאמר אמן
You ok Tzig? It's not like you have been alllowing everything on, that you now need to strongly censor the comments. What are we missing here? Are you scared of honest open discussion? I'm afraid that the comments will just turn into a gallery of sheep following their leader the goat. And what good is a flock of sheep without a couple of scary wolves?!
ReplyDeleteVohs iz, kenst nisht fartroggen dee hitz? Host moireh az m'geit bavayzen az Toras Habesh't bichlal, oon Chabad bifrat iz gebleeben....'ch veist nisht vohs to zogen punkt..Efsher a sach posheter tzu zogen az ess hot zech oys gelost a boydem?
ReplyDeleteNu, gitz a kuk auf Satmar, a sheineh reineh kapureh mit alleh shemoineh begudim, ober tzu raisen zech auf shtikker, een dee chasidishe Klausenburg, vee tzvai breeder oon zayereh chasidim kriegen zech auf a gemeineh oifen?
Oh, Chabad!! Toras HaBesh't in groisen?!!Kavyochol.Tzukrigt tzeveshen zich geferlech, tzvai machanos oon beideh zennen meshugoim.Ooon vos iz mit dee gemeineh messireh vuh, chasidim vus zennen shtark dovuk in Rebb'n, meshichisten, hobben moiser gevezen andreh chasidim oif geferlecheh kloges vos ken brengen, holoi teehyeh chas vesholom auf lageh yoren in toormeh?
here's the nitpicker again..your title should be vifl a shiur or vifl is der shiur but that is not really said...
ReplyDeleteyou are misusing di too much
don't think you are frightening anyone
ReplyDeleteI think you're right to do this. But then again, I closed my blog because I couldn't take the heat (read: hate).
ReplyDeleteHatzlacha and I hope you don't lose too many readers.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteAs a old observer I can testify that you had already much worse days of hatefests on your blog,you should of been numb to these drekk by now,
take a chill pill and keep on the fight.
Mah shelo ya'aseh haseichel ya'aseh hazman! Finally you came to your senses.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with criticism, regardless how sharp, provided, however, az men red tzu der zach - that it is relevant, on topic, and above all based on basic rationality even if wrong.
Silly comments, vile insults, bizui talmidei chachomim (of whatever camp) for no other reason or purpose but to attack,insult, stab and hurt, have no place in any reasonable discussion, aside of the violation of so many issurim de'oraysso and derabonon (vechamurim divrei sofrim etc.) - where the blog-owner becomes liable as well by publishing them.
The fact that some may not regard certain personalities as tzadikim or talmidei chachomim etc. is irrelevant. If they are roshei alfei Yisroel, and revered by multitudes of Yidden (whether you like them or not), demands minimal decency not to denigrade and insult them (an certainly not "in their face"). Whether you follow chassidus or mussar etc. - just study your own sources and you will find that they condemn most severly that kind of behavior, thus besides everything else - these people are outright hypocrites which have no chelek beElokei Yisroel veToirosoi!
The fact that these people don't even have the courage to confirm that these are their sincere beliefs, by hiding behind pseudonyms (of which Torah says orur makeh beseisser etc.), proves their cowardice and dishonesty.
Hilel Hazoken (vehalochoh kemoisoi!) already ruled de'aloch sonei lechavroch al ta'avid is kol haTorah kuloh!
It is no less than an outright halachic obligation to erase all and any objectionable comments; bal yero'eh ubal yimotze this filthy and contaminating chometz! Vesholom al Yisroel!
It's all the fault of those snags!!!!
ReplyDeleteP.S. Note to all blog chevra - sometimes we have to have rachmonus on Hirshel - after all, Tzig iz aych a mentch!
Hirshel - you worry about certain things driving away people - have your page view stats indicated such?
Snag
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure it's the snags. Guys like Duvy are not snags, they're Ipcheh Mistavreh'nikkes
stats are pretty god, but I have to believe they would be better if the conversation would continue freely and as planned - on topic.
Hirshel, you write a sheineh, geshmake Yiddish by the way. Maybe you should write more Yiddish, bring Yiddish back to Lubavitch.
ReplyDeletenitpicker
ReplyDeleteit definitely fits well with the spoken Yiddish of today, even using "Di."
א דיינק אייך אדון "סנעג" פאר די ווארעמע ווערטער
ReplyDeleteאידיש אין ליובאוויטש? כ'האב מורא אז דאס וועט שוין מער נישט זיין ווי אמאל, בפרט נאך אז די חב"ד'ישער עולם איז פארזייט און פארשפרייט אין אלע עקן פון וועלט, און זעהט עס נישט אלץ א וויכטיגקייט
Wow!
ReplyDeleteI got special mention on the blog,Hirshel!
My children already struggle to learn Hebrew, a holy language, and one that is not frequently spoken in America. I'd rather they spend their time learning yidishkeit than yet another foreign language.
ReplyDeletei guess i don't speak new york yiddish
ReplyDeletenitpicker
>>>>tzvai machanos oon beideh zennen meshugoim.
ReplyDeletethis all of it kiks ass big time. siz freilich oifen velt moshiach kimpt bald I like the yiddish in ainglish it must be hard to keep on trying to figure things out.
Hirshel Chazak vematz winners never give up let all the loosers wallow away in their bitterness.
a freilichin Chanukah santa gait unz aleh bald bashainin mit matunois
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteFree speech is the antidote to corruption and control by power abusers. The alternative to free speech is Communism and that for sure help no one and nothing so dont worry about the free discussion the alternative is the COL's and vos iz neias uchedoimeh
Their is closed site in Hyde park on anything and everything pertaining Chassidus, where stuff is discussed in a very polite manner, eventough the topics are hot,
ReplyDeleteThey Have one cardinal policy no personal insult on any Rebbe what so ever.. Its not easy for Hirshel to filter these kind of insults since its a open forum, but I believe that some kind of border has to be set.
Chabad/Lubavitch/Hirshel
ReplyDeleteAll scared of free expression!
Mind you, Hirshel still does moderate comments, so vulgar language and personal attacks against Lubavitchers (against other kreizen it's generally ok...)will not get thru.
What does Hirshel expect when he allows and actually publishes and promotes blood libels that for example claim that Snags starved Lubavitcher boys to death in Shanghai!.Does he expect that this type of anti-Semitic canard go unanswered?
(when attempts were made to understand the quite inglorious history of chabd during the War, he was not up to the task of allowing that to be printed.)
(when attempts were made to understand the quite inglorious history of chabd during the War, he was not up to the task of allowing that to be printed.)
ReplyDeletewhat does that have to do with the Bostoner and Gush Katif?!
Nothing.
ReplyDeleteJust used as examples.You allow yourself to call gedoley harabbonim rotzchim and them cry uncle when you get it thrown back at you.
You also ,farshteytsach "naively" took a nasty swipe at Aguda and the moetzes for seeing the retreat from Gush Katif differently than your rebbe would have seen it, and used your shvacheh hesped of the Bostoner for that
Avremel/Duvy/Dovy/Bostoner
ReplyDeletethrough your murky glasses everything is a comparison
Nazi occupied Poland is the same as Gush 2005 and Lakewood is JUST LIKE Crown Heights
must be blissful down there...
Eh, going back to Lakewood,
ReplyDeleteSo why can one not compare C.Heights to Lakewood?
(Btw, lately Lubavitch opened up a yeshiva in Lakewood.Wonder when BMG opens up a snif in CH)
R'Hirshel
ReplyDeleteI have to take a time out now, in the mean time I ask you not to take things personally.
About the blog:I think your creative talents are better served by blogging about interesting historical events/people etc.The letters to mum are a good example.Negina:Blogging and posting interesting clips like Shamshon Carotanov.
Interesting pics,documents.
Keep away from controversial Lubavitcher issues which just cause your blood pressure to go up.
In the meantime, be well.
wow
ReplyDeleteavremel has a heart after all!
The baalhablog has to ask himself, if he is honest, what about his blog invites all of this divrey zilzul. Maybe it is relfective of Mr.blog's zilzul of any non-Habad loving Godel?
ReplyDeleteMr. Blog writes very respectfully of most non-Habad Gedolim, if I may say so myself.
ReplyDeleteMr.Blog is comparing himself to how the typical Ha-bad person would have written such articles. Of course they are a step up. But from a non-Ha-bad persepctive (milmyalah limatah)- it is terrible divrey zilzul. You yourself don't realize how not-brayt and how Ha-bad your tzugang to the non-Ha-bad-loving Gedolim is.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteno, NB, I mean what I said.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me if the many Jews that circle in and around chabad houses around the world were aware of the sharpness and egocentricity of these discussions they would be shocked at the sharpness of the insults. The Lubavitch image continues to be of kind,friendly Jews, non partisan, trying to be helpful to all.
ReplyDeleteWhile I am on the subject on the inner reality vs. the outer image, there is a powerful book about Lubavitch that was recently published. It is called "Open Secret:Postmessianic Messianism and the Mystical Revision of Menachem Mendel Schneerson" by Elliot R. Wolfson.
I don't know if everyone or anyone has looked at this book, and I have no real opinions other than this professor is a serious scholar and has read widely.
Yiddish. If so many young Lubavitchers clearly go out of their way to mimic the rebbe in so many ways , walk, hat , shirt, clothing etc etc, why is it not important to speak , write and comprehend the language the Rebbe used and delivered his sichos kodesh ? To wear the rebbe's socks is critical, but to speak Yiddish is not ? Yelamdaynu Rabbeinu.
ReplyDeleteVeod all the nesiim until 1994 spoke and taught in Yiddish, so can you just casually say its not important, its too hard to learn.
It may be news to some in CH , but other chassiidc groups also have newcomers and I myslef know more than few who studied Yiddish and speak it well, becuase they wanted to use the language their rebbes spoke.
Veod forget about Lubavitch for a moment but the greats of Yiddishkayt of the Ashkenazi variety all thought, taught and spoke Yiddish and so doing away with it is a casual thing. tzig why not do away with kapotes , gartlech Nusach Ari, and hundreds of other minhogim and life style statements that are much less significant than Yiddish.Suddenly we forget the midrash as to why we were zoche for a geulah in ancient Egypt ?
As a great man obnce said (yes a great man)Im tirze eyn zu agada, if Lubavitchers were interested in speaking Yiddiah its no big deal, but todays Lubavitch is much more interested in acculturating (I did not use assimilating) in the general American society.
A final note since Lubavitch is a Lithuanian group the Yiddish they should speak is not some absurd mishmash created by a Hungarian comunity in the US whose forfathers and formothers did not even speak Yiddish, but a gesunten Litvishe Yiddish. You would be suprised at the results.
Here's what Google Translate did to my Yiddish!
ReplyDelete!שהשם ישמור
anonymous 3:43am
ReplyDeleteMeshichisten are dovuk in zich, nisht in Rebbin.
Reb Schneur:
ReplyDeleteLitvishe Yiddish is a problem in all sectors, not just Lubavitch. It's just not spoken anymore among he younger crowd, save for Yerushalayim. I never understood it; why the Hungarians etc. have no problem speaking it, yet the Russians/Litvishe can't do it anymore.
Shneur,
ReplyDeleteI have news for you that their is a large number of families in lubavitch that speak to their kids in (Y)idesh, Its a phonemon thats growing.
BTW, I am not getting it How you get more assimilated with speaking English then a Yungerman walking on Main St in Arkansas with a Langer Burd in a Kaputta? please do some explaining. You can ask your great man to assist you in the hasbora.
Evanstonjew,
ReplyDeleteThe jews in the Chabad houses who have a half brain know that their are elements like you and your Rebbes that are obbssesed to exclude them from Klal Yisroel, and chabad is suffering for that, for the only sin of streching out a hand for them and telling them you are a brother, as the whole universe saw it first hand in Mumbai. So dont you worry for the Chabad image
Hirhel,
ReplyDeletewhy are saying Bie Unz? are you the Karliner Rebbe? Unless you are a Corp.
where did I say "bei unz"?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous , don't ask me the question, ask Chazal why they said shalem is roshe teivos malbush , shem and lashon I even saw a midrash that substitutes maachel for malbush as Jewish food the food a nation eats is another way of keeping national identity and obviously in their decisions regarding food Chazal were aware of that too. Did you ever wonder why Polsih jews did not speak Polish, why did the rashab not switch over to russian , as amny of the educated jewish youth desired to speak that language. Why did not the Alter give shiurim in Slobodka in Russian ?Why did jews in Europe Africa and Asia almost always have their own spoken language be it Yiddish , Western Yiddiah, ladino, Tat, Judeo Arabic etc ect ? May I also suggest you respectfully read about the significance of language as a cultural transmitter. And then you can read the statements supporting Yiddish from various people like the Divre Yoel and the rav (R. Soloveitchik)and ALL greats of the Chassidic world . But even if you do not accept all of this you need to admit that getting rid of Yiddish is not just a decision of ma bekach.
ReplyDeleteA language transmits the culture, believe system and values of a peoples history. is it not a radical departure for chabad after 150 years of Yiddiah to switch to Englsih. I AM HAPPY TO HEAR THAT MANY CHABAD FAMILIES SPEAK YIDDISH> IT IS GOOD NEWS>
In the book I mentioned earlier, there is a translated quote from Torat Menachem:Hitwwa'aduyot 5716,3:95 which in part reads as follows:"...-all the matters of teaching of Hasidim: not only the revealed [galya] that is in Hasidism, that is the contextual [peshat],figurative [remez],and homiletical [derush] that is in Hasidism, but also the secret [sod]that is in Hasidism, the secret within the secret [sodshe-be-sod], that is, the kabbalistic matters passed on in the teaching of Hasidism but not explained-these too, can be transmitted in other languages, and not only in the sacred language and in Yiddish."
ReplyDeleteI would think this quote might be of relevance to the issues raised by Schneur, but I don't know enough to arrive at an informed opinion.
Dear Shneur
ReplyDeleteReb Moshe (its ironic that so said the Satmar Rov too) writes that the 3, Shem Malbush And Loshon were needed only before Klal Yisroel received the torah, that was the only items to differentiate us as a nation but as of now its not needed.The bottom line is, that these chabad houses are fighting assimilation with the English language shluchim, better then the holy bundisten, socialists of Warsaw
Hirshel
ReplyDelete"where did I say "bei unz"? "
in the line before last
oh, I see now. well, I meant by this blog. Sorry if I sound like him...
ReplyDeletevoice of truth:
ReplyDeletedo sheep follow goats? That sounds odd. Shouldn't that be "kids" following the goat?
Evanston
ReplyDelete"powerful book about Lubavitch that was recently published. "
Why is the book powerful? is there a other reason outside of another negative anti chabad rag from some idiot hanikra Professor,
it is the easiest thing to write on the subject of chabad meshichisim, all the raw material in that matter you can get on the multiple meshchistim sites, so whats is chidush?
he is too lazy and stupid to write on the Rebbe new ideas in chassidus,rashi, rambam, emuna,. these is too much thinking to do for his little brain. Let him write a book review on the new sefer hoerchim, we will see the powerfull book then.
Anonymous...Don't shoot the messenger. I told you there is a new book. Do with this piece of info as you please. As for my term 'powerful'...I have the book in front of me. The man read and hopefully understood the entire corpus of the Rebbe's sichot, letters etc that are in print. He has no animus like Prof. Berger towards Lubavitch. He has written other books many of which have been praised.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Wolfson is both lazy and stupid, but forgive me, if you will, for thinking otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_R._Wolfson
"do sheep follow goats? That sounds odd. Shouldn't that be "kids" following the goat?"
ReplyDeleteMy point exactly! Here you have a very talented goat that wants all the kids to turn into sheep. That is unnatural. And quite boring as well- I'm afraid.
Evanston...
ReplyDeleteI am not in a shooting range,
are you sticking to your adulation of the book as Powerful?
please dont accuse me of taking your words out of context
Evanston...
ReplyDeleteI am not in a shooting range,
are you sticking to your adulation of the book as Powerful?
please dont accuse me of taking your words out of context
it must be true
ReplyDeletehatred they do spew
by a select few
Oy! Vifil iz di Shiur
to the humdrum
of the ad hominoms
beating like drums
Oy! Vifil iz di Shiur
hatred is baseless
vile and tasteless
we must erase-this
Oy! Vifil iz di Shiur
talking like bney keturah
is miakev the geulah
suffer from Attulah
Oy! Vifil iz di Shiur
Tzig makes an about face
puts on a new face
gone without a trace
Oy! Vifil iz di Shiur
-Tzig: Chin Up and fight the good fight!
ReplyDelete-To those that wonder: Tzig showed me some of the sickness he gets . . . it aint pretty.
-Schneur: There are many today that make an effort to speak Yiddish - though it remains a Lekutei Sichos Yiddish. When I was in Warsaw for the year, the chevra at my mivtzoyim route in the Yiddishe Teatr used to ask me "Vi kimt es az a Chassidisher Bucher zal reden auf Litvish?"
http://www.bhol.co.il/news_read.asp?id=14016&cat_id=1
ReplyDeleteBoruch shekivanti (at least palginon bediburei)
Anonymous...I am not clear what you want. I have already said I don't know enough to have an opinion if the main thesis or the details of the book are true.I also said I have no real opinion about the book, meaning I am not for it or against it; I haven't even finished reading it. I did say the book was powerful, meaning impressive, not easy to dismiss, etc. The book is 452 pages, using small type. It has a 22 page bibliography, and a 105 pages of notes, most of them referring back to the original texts of the Lubavitcher Rebbes. It is not a biography, and has no juicy revelations of the Rebbe in Paris. No photos. It is a book about chasidus chabad.
ReplyDeleteI'm done. You can have the last word.
Any idea why Google Translate translates Satmar to "nuclear"?
ReplyDelete1. i want to second and give yasher koyach to reality check fo his comment. toyre and haloche come before freedom of speech. venom htred and bizuy t"ch shoul nt go through on a blog moderated y a frumer yid.
ReplyDelete2. i also think that Hirshl has a rich beautiful andauhentic yidish but i agree wth the nitpicker that the definite articl gender needs more diyuk. it is tru that theoern BP willy monroe americanised yidish has DE for evrything but he yidish redner fun der heym always used the correc gender.
i also agree with shneur that yidish shouldnt be downplayed ut i do see to a certain ( not enough ) extend a revival among some membes of the lubavitch kehile
It's interesting to note: Rabbi Bell from Montreal mentioned while speaking in 770 for the 19 Kislev farbrengen, that it was assur to read and post anonymous comments . . .
ReplyDeleteevanstonjew: " He has no animus like Prof. Berger towards Lubavitch."
ReplyDeleteEvanston, I am surprised at you for saying that. You are intelligent and you are not a Lubavitcher, so why are you repeating their wild accusation. The fact is that Rabbi Dr. Berger used to give money to Lubavitch! Have you ever met Dr. Berger? I doubt it. So please refrain from such statements.
I am mayche the slur on R. Dovid!
Snag...Aduh!. He writes a book, "The Rebbe the Messiah, and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference" (2001)saying Lubavitch has gone underground and dissimulates their messianic views, calls for not eating their shechita and what not,and my saying he has an animus towards Lubavitch is repeating "their wild accusation?"
ReplyDeleteHe published the following in 2006:
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2006/07/rabbi_david_ber.html
You might say his accusations are correct, but how can anyone deny he has a hostile attitude=animus?
As for the Lubavitch response, I am reminded of the line of Delmore Schwartz ..."I might be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they're not after me."