He basically makes three points and expands on each. 1. The Rebbe was unique in that he was not only a talmid chacham in an ivory tower, but also accomplished things practically. 2. The Rebbe cared about all Jews 3. The Rebbe was not an absolutist - he embraced partial successes, which means that he had a greater net effect than he otherwise would have. Rav Lichtenstein also doesn't understand why the Rebbe told people that they should stay in chu"l, and he isn't sure that secular people who put on tefilin actually get a mitzva(but he thinks that at least there is some psychological effect). He also says that if the Rebbe hadn't gotten involved in politics in the later years of his life certain people would have refrained from attacking him and his reputation would have remained untouched. Overall it sounds like grudging admiration, which is sometimes the most telling kind.
Sshko-ach to Hirshel for posting this. RDAL is a paradigm of Ahavat Yisroel and Ahavat Habriyot; it is not surprising that he expressed, in his own unique inimitable way, deep admiration for the Rebbe. Remember that R. Lichtenstein's wife ran for the Mizruhi ticket and his shver, in his younger years, would lock himself up in a room with a Likutey Imrim - for hours.
Once where on the topic of Tanya... it has come to my attention that in Igeret Hakodesh, Reb Shneur Zalman of Liadi writes that the only people that should be allowed to be shatz' during the week are people that are learning full time and are unemployed. For only they are capable of davenin properly. I wonder if this was ever implemented, and how this comports with the anti-eletist posture of the Chabad PR machine. Is this practice still adhered to in our time?
Additionaly, it is also written in that same passage, that secret spies will be sent out to all communities to ensure that the tefilot are the proper length (90 min. for birchot hashachar) and those who daven too quickly will be punished by being disallowed to hear the Torah discourse the next time they go to the Rebbe. I wonder if this was ever implemented, what where the results, and if the Rebbe zy"a also would send out secret spies.
(In Chabad, there is a tendency for all the secret pacts to be revealed years later; the secret pact of those stranded in Japan during WW2 were obviously not succesful in their attempt at secrecy. Neither were the "nine" messengers of the Riyatz to open clandestine chadorim behind the iron curtain. That being said, where the identities of the secret spies later revealed?)
He says many positives things - it is not at all begrudging. But he does have critiques. He is clearly not a chasid – his main point was one made in context to his students. If you are orthodox and love Torah and mitzvot you should have a great deal of appreciation for the Rebbi and his accomplishments– even if the whole messianic issue made you queasy.
The whole ending about irreplacable leaders can be said about Reb Yoilesh. I mean, if you take out all the Zionistic gibbrish, he could have said the same thing about Sakmar Rov
YUK , In practice in most White Rusian Chabad kehillas before World War 1 there was a Chabad shul where baalebatim davened , because they needed to work and did not have the kelim for an Avoda like the AR means and a Chabadnitze where ovdim davened bearichus. Read the meoirs and likute Diddurim of Rebbe #6 concerning pashute Yidden and you can;t but be amazed by the tremendous Gut bruderkayt towards the pshute Yidden conveyed in these talks.
I would also be interested in the Riyatz's teachings - writings and speaches - about the supremecy of the full time learners. Where does he write about that?
Reply to YUk I heard that someone asked the Rebbe if the 90 minute Shacris applies nowadays. The Rebbe answered that nowadays one hour devoted to Shacris is sufficient. In other words we are not on the level of people 200 years ago.
Can you or someone translate it please
ReplyDeleteWhen did this come out? Right after gimmel tammuz?
ReplyDeleteAnd now the deiah? I really am interested.
ReplyDeleteHe basically makes three points and expands on each.
ReplyDelete1. The Rebbe was unique in that he was not only a talmid chacham in an ivory tower, but also accomplished things practically.
2. The Rebbe cared about all Jews
3. The Rebbe was not an absolutist - he embraced partial successes, which means that he had a greater net effect than he otherwise would have.
Rav Lichtenstein also doesn't understand why the Rebbe told people that they should stay in chu"l, and he isn't sure that secular people who put on tefilin actually get a mitzva(but he thinks that at least there is some psychological effect). He also says that if the Rebbe hadn't gotten involved in politics in the later years of his life certain people would have refrained from attacking him and his reputation would have remained untouched.
Overall it sounds like grudging admiration, which is sometimes the most telling kind.
anon 7:02 6/14/10
ReplyDeleteI said I would post it, not give a deiah...
Sshko-ach to Hirshel for posting this. RDAL is a paradigm of Ahavat Yisroel and Ahavat Habriyot; it is not surprising that he expressed, in his own unique inimitable way, deep admiration for the Rebbe. Remember that R. Lichtenstein's wife ran for the Mizruhi ticket and his shver, in his younger years, would lock himself up in a room with a Likutey Imrim - for hours.
ReplyDeleteOnce where on the topic of Tanya... it has come to my attention that in Igeret Hakodesh, Reb Shneur Zalman of Liadi writes that the only people that should be allowed to be shatz' during the week are people that are learning full time and are unemployed. For only they are capable of davenin properly. I wonder if this was ever implemented, and how this comports with the anti-eletist posture of the Chabad PR machine. Is this practice still adhered to in our time?
Additionaly, it is also written in that same passage, that secret spies will be sent out to all communities to ensure that the tefilot are the proper length (90 min. for birchot hashachar) and those who daven too quickly will be punished by being disallowed to hear the Torah discourse the next time they go to the Rebbe. I wonder if this was ever implemented, what where the results, and if the Rebbe zy"a also would send out secret spies.
(In Chabad, there is a tendency for all the secret pacts to be revealed years later; the secret pact of those stranded in Japan during WW2 were obviously not succesful in their attempt at secrecy. Neither were the "nine" messengers of the Riyatz to open clandestine chadorim behind the iron curtain. That being said, where the identities of the secret spies later revealed?)
He says many positives things - it is not at all begrudging. But he does have critiques. He is clearly not a chasid – his main point was one made in context to his students. If you are orthodox and love Torah and mitzvot you should have a great deal of appreciation for the Rebbi and his accomplishments– even if the whole messianic issue made you queasy.
ReplyDeleteThe whole ending about irreplacable leaders can be said about Reb Yoilesh. I mean, if you take out all the Zionistic gibbrish, he could have said the same thing about Sakmar Rov
ReplyDeleteYUK ,
ReplyDeleteIn practice in most White Rusian Chabad kehillas before World War 1 there was a Chabad shul where baalebatim davened , because they needed to work and did not have the kelim for an Avoda like the AR means and a Chabadnitze where ovdim davened bearichus.
Read the meoirs and likute Diddurim of Rebbe #6 concerning pashute Yidden and you can;t but be amazed by the tremendous Gut bruderkayt towards the pshute Yidden conveyed in these talks.
Schneur,
ReplyDeleteI would also be interested in the Riyatz's teachings - writings and speaches - about the supremecy of the full time learners. Where does he write about that?
So when are you going to share your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteReply to YUk
ReplyDeleteI heard that someone asked the Rebbe if the 90 minute Shacris applies nowadays. The Rebbe answered that nowadays one hour devoted to Shacris is sufficient.
In other words we are not on the level of people 200 years ago.