I always wondered what a Rov like Reb Schneur Der Rov thought about the guys that were ex-yeshiva bochurim and left the fold, went on to "illustrious" careers in Di Medina, when they came back to Kfar Chabad and got Koved Melochim at the Farbrengens. A picture may tell a thousand words, but a thousand words may not tell us what we need to know in this case. If you ask me he's giving to him, and good, in this exchange. Rav Garelik was the first Thomim in Lubavitch and you couldn't fool him. I'm sure it bothered him that these שנה ופירש'ניקעס were being sat אויבן אהן, but he knew which side his bread was buttered, and he knew that they needed the suport of the State in order to function, and he knew what the Rebbe's opinion was and he knew what he had to do. So when they sat together he smiled and shook hands and made nice, but I would imagine that when he had a second alone with SHaZaR he told him what he REALLY thought of him...
Let your imaginations run wild...
Oh! while we're on the topic of "Chanifoh LeReshoyim," please take a look at the words of the holy Chasam Sofer on the matter. Quite fascinating, IMHO.
Can you tell us those unversed in history who this Person was?
ReplyDeleteor his last name so we can google it?
ReplyDeleteReb Hershel
ReplyDeleteShazar was not ever a Yeshiva boy,
it's possible you are right, but i would assume that since the rebbe himself was never sharf to shazar, rsg followed his example and was not either.
ReplyDeletein Tel Aviv shtiebel all this "Tzadikim" were celebrating Farbrengens with the alte chasidim even before the Rebbes nesius, its like a real Yoely shows up by a Satmar Melave Malka, its Bosor Mibsorieni
ReplyDeleteWas Shazar shomer shabbos? It seems from the letter you posted from Lozor Reich that he was not.
ReplyDeleteI may be mistaken, but I recall a maaseh with Reb Mendel telling off Shazar at farbrengn . . .
ReplyDeleteClearly the late President of the State of Israel,Mr. Zalman Rubishov-Shazar was instrumental in funding Lubavitch projects and institution in Eretz Yisrael. It would be reasonable to assume that these sums were enormous. it seems less than gracious to begin reexamining his relationship with Habad; the two are inextricably linked. He was also a man of great learning and was very knowledgeable in many areas of Yiddishkeit. He was well liked and respected and was thus elected to the Presidency of Israel.
ReplyDeleteI find the caption on the photo humorous in light of your post.
ReplyDeleteZalman Shazar would recount, that what brought him close to the FR and the Rebbe was that Pinya Altheus dragged him (when he was the editor of the far left "Davar") to a 19 Kislev farbrengen in Tel Aviv where Reb Zalman Moshe was the main speaker. At some point Reb ZM started pestering him about who he was, and he finally answered, " a grandson of Zalman Rubashov." When Reb ZM heard that, he said, "oy bist du a shvantz." That made a profound impression on him, as he himself would say, he was moved by the profound combination of Ahavas Yisroel and Emes.
ReplyDeleteFound it in chabadtalk
to the one who asked about the Rov's name: did you read the photo caption?
ReplyDeleteTzig. I have to say this you have no understanding of LItvishe and White Russian Jews. There never was this mechitzah between frum Jews and others. They had their fights over religion but no one questioned their Jewishness and that we were all aprt of a family.They all lived together and took part in kahal activities together and every family had a part(in good standing that had left the halacha behind). Perhaps exceptions were made for Jews who became Communists , Anarchists and meshumodim, but Zionists ? If that was the case they would have written off 90% of Litvishe Yidden including most ogf the rabbonim, Just take a look at the mishpachas Beth Horav. The Hornstein family inlcuded all sorts of Jews Zionits , Chabad people, massortiim vechuli.
ReplyDeleteSo Reb SZ Garelik "chanfed" Zalman Shazar a --nechtike tog . And I guarantee you that Reb Garelik was far too klug to aatck Shazar, most probably the conversation was about an intelletual matter. Don't forget that Shazar was aways interested in Kabbolah, Messianism Braslev and of course Chabad . he wrote a book on the Messiah of Izmir.They were both Veis Russische yidden from a Chabad background and thats a lot of commonality right there
And let me add Shazar was always a Massorati who observed a great deal of the classical Jewish life style. Was the Rebbe's hug of Shazar chanifa ? Gevald it was 2 Yidden from the same background meeting zwei gutte fraynt.
As far as chanifa goes that may have been the job of the younger KCH askanim who probably had little in common with Shazar.
Please do not project Hungarain Chasam Sofer vlaues on Litvishe -Reisener Yidden.
Schneur, do you think the Rasha"b would have kissed Shaza"r because he was from white Russia? I don't think it likely. Neither would R. Chaim Soloveitchik who was very far from being a Hungarian.
ReplyDeleteIn connection (Somewhat?) with what Mottel wrote-
ReplyDeleteHere's a famous mayse (found it again courtesy of Reb Google):
Everybody knew that Zalman painted. Mr. Zalman Shazar, head of the Jewish Agency, once came to visit Kfar Chabad. R’ Pinye Altheus, who had been appointed over the Kfar by the Rebbe, brought Mr. Shazar to Zalman’s room and showed him his paintings. He was very impressed, and on the spot, gave him a scholarship to study art. Zalman went to a number of art schools and showed them his portfolio of paintings. They all told him that his work far surpassed the level of studies they offered.
On that occasion, Shazar saw a painting of a chassidishe farbrengen, which was full of life and feeling. Shazar expressed his surprise over the fact that it depicted a farbrengen the likes of which he wasn’t familiar (Shazar regularly attended the Yud-Tes Kislev farbrengen in Kfar Chabad). Zalman answered him in a straightforward manner, “When you come, you see the official farbrengen. What you’re seeing in this picture is the farbrengen that takes place after you leave..”
*
Then there's also the story (forgive me, as I may be mistaken with details) re when Shazar "farbrenged" in Brunoy(?), and the Rebbe told R. Nissen to farbreng with the bochrim afterwards, upshlogig vos er hoht gezogt. (Probably in line with "דעת בעה"ב היפך דעת תורה" (esp. politicians)..
Ailemsher , after World war 2 and the destruction of a civilization all bets were of. I guarante you that if Rav Joel of Sakmar met a Sigeter Yid after the war even if he was a Mizrachi there would have been a warm handshake and maybe then a wise crack !
ReplyDeleteBy the way Chaside Breslev who had little in common with Shazar welcomed him to their gatherings long before he had any bank accounts to share.Check out the letters between Shazar and Rav Israel Odesser.
Let me also add that when the Rayaatz was in the US in 1929-1930 he met many people from Chabad backgrounds who were "strongly affected" by America , but the Rebbe greeted them warmly and please do not tell me it was only for a nedova.
schneur said.."but the Rebbe greeted them warmly and please do not tell me it was only for a nedova."
ReplyDeleteno it was to teach them eskafya
First of all the caption to the picture clearly says in Hebrew that the rov is bentching Mr. Shazar. What would make anyone doubt that? secondly, everyone knows from the special farbrengun and the overwhelming warmth and hiskarvus that was shown to Mr. Shazar when he came to see the rebbe, that the Rebbe really liked Mr. Shazar. Is there another picture of the Rebbe hugging someone the way that he embraced Reb Zalmen Shazar. Read the siches at that farbrengen and you will understand the deep connection between the Rebbe and the President.
ReplyDeleteCould the writer kindly elaborate on the matter of escafye by the nusach ari yidden in major metropolitan centers in the U.S. during the visit of the Rebbe Rayatz z"l ?
ReplyDeleteAn Eilimisher,
ReplyDelete"Neither would R. Chaim Soloveitchik who was very far from being a Hungarian."
Meller writes in his 4 volume book Uvdois Vehanhogas Brisk, that by one of the grave desecration brouhaha in Israel, the Rabinate in Haifa gave it a green light, as usual with all the grave matters the Reb Velvel brisker was aggressively involved, but at no way was he willing to badmouth the Rav that was involved, he answered to the question, how come he is so mild regarding the Rov, that he his family.
The Rebbe Reshab was very close to the Berlins of Riga that were helping him fund the Yeshivahs and his other causes, they were not a model for chasidishe yiden at that time anymore,their are probably 150 letters to him, and I believe that if he would get a Stem of a Chabad family that is willing to work with him and not a anti and getting closer to Yiddishkiet, he would definitely work with him.
can any one elaborate on the eskafya bepoiel of lubavitchers in the last 100 years altogether
ReplyDeleteAn Ailimisher.
ReplyDeleteIs not the Chasam Sofer regarded today as the Rebbe of the Hungarian Jewry ?
He writes in the scanned piece that for the sake of kiruv you have to be close to the reshoim, and it is the Mesorah way to go.
shazar dovined rosh hashana in breslov until the kannoim asked him to leave...
ReplyDeleteSchneur,
ReplyDeleteMy impression is that the Rasha"b was a bigger kanoi than the Rayat"z in many ways. It seems to me that the Rayat"z was more comfortable with maskilim than his father. The Rasha"b only had sifrei kedusha in his library while the Rayat"z had other books also.
I'm sure you know the sources better than I. What's your opinion on this?
An Ailimesher,
ReplyDeleteyour fargrebte impression does not matter much, but the fact showed that he went in to the Kivshen Aish many times that Gedolim 100's of years before him did not practice, iy was by them in theory, but he felt it on his flesh.Shal Neoliach Maal Raglache before you discuss this kind of Kedoishe Elyon,
i really like those pics
ReplyDeletegreat blog you have here
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