Allow me to defend the Meshichiten here, if only for a moment, and if only a small part of what they do. Every Motzoei YomTov, and especially MR"H and MS"T we see pictures of thousands in 770 at a farbrengen towards the end of Yom Tov. We then see some of them lining up to get "kos shel brochoh from the Rebbe." [It's sad to watch, no matter what your opinion of Lubavitch is. Especially when it's the young kids that you see there with a cup in hand staring at the empty chair and the becher. It's tough being a Lubavitcher kid these days, no matter what the older ones may tell you - or tell them, and that's even if you don't know what Lubavitch once looked like during Tishrei, and that's even if you don't see what happens elsehwere. Even a kid realizes that something is amiss here, that despite what they tell him this is not what it should be like. But what other choice is there for him?]
Lubavitch had for many years become a place where you spoke about what the Rebbe did, rather than what the Rebbe said. When the Rebbe came in, when he left, how many times he encouraged the singing, how many maamorim and how many sichos and how long the farbrengen took and how late the Rebbe came back from the Ohel and davened mincha. That's not to say that m'hut zich nisht gekucht in dem Rebbin's torah; I'm just saying that for the hamon the fun part was the giluyim, DeHayne, if the Rebbe got up and danced and the crowd went wild, then that was a major point of discussion the next day and whenever that farbrengen was mentioned. Speak to a semi-educated Lubavitcher and ask him about Purims 5718 and 5726. There are countless other examples. In other words, when a Lubavitcher tells you that s'iz em gut azay he's not being 100% truthful. And even a Meshichist, the most radical and extreme one, who'll tell you that it's "Chai VeKayom b'Guf Gashmi Mamosh", even he - if he saw - would tell you that this isn't it - Thank G-d for that...
Having said that Lubavitchers miss that. They'll tell you they don't need it because לא עזב את צאן מרעיתו and a myriad of other reasons, because מה זרעו בחיים אף הוא בחיים, because the Rebbe said Shvi'i means there will be no shmini. That's all good and well, but what about the "giluyim?" what will take its place 16 years down the line? How will our children know what it means to push during a farbrengen and to stand on the bleachers or on a human pyramid 20 feet high? So that is recreated several times a year in 770, maybe not intentionally so, but that's the result. Bachurim and Yungeleit and children can relive PART of what would happen during farbrengens - the "lots of people" part. Meshichisten take it one step further. They take a Lulav and Esrog and they "give it to the Rebbe." They then make lines to bentch on the "Rebbe's Lulav and Esrog. " After Havdoloh on Motzei YomTov they wait for Kos Shel Brochoh. You think they believe that the Rebbe is here giving out KSB? or that the Lulav and Esrog that somebody "prepared for him" is worth an hour wait in the cold rain? of course not. They just miss the old days and they're trying to recreate it. They want Giluyim.
Tzig are u insane?
ReplyDeleteThis is what we have to show our kids?!
A bunch of lunatics staring at a empty chair, making a brachah on the Rebbe's lulav and esrog (which you are not yotze cause its not lachem!)
I would take my kids to the Ohel, there is where you see the rebbe is.
And as for your point about how will are kids ever going to know what was?
Why not look at videos.....
Whats wrong with telling your kid, times HAVE changed and its not the way it used to be.
Don't give them dimyonos shove!
i totally agree with anon 8:24am
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think we forget the precedent that exists for all of this . . . There are Lubavitchers that grew up in Russland that lived and died for a Rebbe they never saw.
ReplyDeletewho gives the Kos shel beroche? is it Reb Nachman shapiro? or you walk away empty handed.
ReplyDeleteJust lately I saw that the famous sanzer chosid the Nasader rov never had a smile on his face after the Sanzer rov passed on. It is a certain love that misnagdim don"t get.
This is the best post you ever wrote and it got 5 comments and that's a shame. The pain in your hands as you typed it is obvious. I respect you more for writing this.
ReplyDeleteTzig - you would be doing YOUR community (i.e. Chabad) more good if you would keep up with this thread in future posts, as painful as it is.
ReplyDeleteI am just 32, but I have very fond memories of the Rebbe in CH (dollars, YT etc), farbrengens and events via hook-up etc etc -
Chabad desperately needs to figure this elephant in the room out and fast - raising generations on this sheker will lead to much worse than we're seeing with Meshichistin (at least they are observant Jews for the most part). The children of the children who never saw the Rebbe or CH during its heyday will leave en masse (I really hope Im wrong, but I cant see it any other way)
Mottele - your analogy is way off. At least the Chassidim in Russia knew the Rebbe was chai v'kayam leading the Chassidim, even if it was thousands of miles away. That gives you a nesinas koach. But when you know there is nothing there, and then to watch the nonsense in 770, it starts TURNING PEOPLE OFF AND AWAY.
An PS - videos and the like, even Ohel, will never succeed in creating the kesher that was created pre-3 Tammuz. Its the same as being miskasher to the FR by watching videos of him coming to America or into 770 or going to his Ohel.
This is a horribly painful subject and I hope someone has the guts to start addressing what will be a VERY big problem in 10-15 yrs down the road as all these kids raised on videos and trips to the Ohel start having kids.
Mr. Anonymous Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:24:00 AM
ReplyDeleteI wasn't saying that this is an ideal situation, and I definitely wasn't defending it. I was just thinking out loud, that maybe, just maybe, this is what goes through the minds of those who act sooo strangely.
This is the best post you ever wrote and it got 5 comments and that's a shame. The pain in your hands as you typed it is obvious. I respect you more for writing this.
ReplyDeleteI guess people are just left speechless and all agree with what I say.... It's the ones they disagree with that gets all the comments..
Thanks
Is it wrong to play pretend?
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe said specifically that when you read a pan which you write on yud shevat you should pretend that you are standing by yechidus by The Friediker Rebbe...
Is it wrong to make a zhvil? If you hope and expect at every moment that The Rebbe will be revealed then of course you make a place for him to pass by.
Agav, in Belz after the histalkus of the Sar Sholom they continued to set his place for him in shul and the chazzan would stand next to it and "share" the siddur with the Sar Shalom...
honestly, do you still say the rebbes kapitel?
ReplyDeletethe things the rebbe wanted said about him, he said about his shver, alas there isnt anyone with the plaitzes to make lubavitch have a reeal hemshech to guide us and tell us how now to relate to the rebbe properly and raise the dor hashmini wich is here, like it or not.
ReplyDeletehe closed the door to having a successor, which was mistame his greatest failure
ReplyDelete-Feivel ben Mishael: I don't think the Rebbe said to 'pretend' by the ohel.
ReplyDeleteWhat's more, hak mir nisht kein tshainik about the 'shvil,' no one was a bigger maimon that moshiach would come any second and no one was a bigger chossid than the Rebbe - and he didn't make a full of himself with a shvil . . . what is more, he wouldn't have beaten up someone who walks through it (r"l)
Tzig you wrote:
ReplyDelete"This is the best post you ever wrote and it got 5 comments and that's a shame. The pain in your hands as you typed it is obvious. I respect you more for writing this.
I guess people are just left speechless and all agree with what I say.... It's the ones they disagree with that gets all the comments.."
I think people are just turned off at the stupidity, and therefore decline to comment!
Don't write in what you don't believe in, and you defiantly know that this is not what is going through the minds of people that do these things!
Stop trying to be creative and publicize controversial issues with your two sense of retardation.
When the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed --- lehavdil --- we didn't build little exact replicas and wait for the ghost of the kohen gadol to emerge from the kodesh kodoshim. We davened, and we did mournful things zecher l'mikdash and we made our homes and shules a mikdash me-at.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, those for whom 770 was a mikdash me-at, should do similar things and not attempt to recreate the unrecreatable. It's negative and damaging.
If the Rebbe z"l ate with the Rashag did they do a mezumen with the Rayatz?
This is all classical psychological denial syndrome and the plastic reminiscing through these charades DOES the damage for the next generation.
Move on, as painful as it must be. Live through his teachings and directives not by play acting the chitzoniyusdike "giluim". It's sentimental narishkeit.
"If the Rebbe z"l ate with the Rashag did they do a mezumen with the Rayatz?"
ReplyDeleteisaac, only at shalosh seudos.
agav isaac, the drink of chabad is vodka, not c"v single malt!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Is that why I drink Single Malt?
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:09
ReplyDeleteHow do you know how the Yidden reacted after the destruction of the Beis Hamikdosh?
They weren't so quick to give up, and accept the status of exile, even though the destruction had been prophesied. 60 years later, they fought a war for independence, believed that Moshiach had arrived, and they were going to rebuild the temple!
If anything, the historical precedent only strengthens the argument that 'moving on' isn't the most lucrative option for a true believer.
Reading your article reminded me of the famous niggun "tikku bachoidesh" abouth the chosid who came for Tishrei and left with... only etzem.
ReplyDeleteDear Rebbetzin,
ReplyDeleteHalacha tells how we should react. None of the halachic prescriptions actions and reactions remotely connote giving up. Why do you put these words into my keyboard?
Moving on means to leave the narishkeit of kos shel bracha and other similar halachically unprecedented and confounding innovations and perhaps concentrate on the here and now, mamash (sic).
By all means, daven hard(er) for Geula, do extra Mitzvos and Mivtzoim and whatever but perhaps focus on Tkah B'Shofar L'Cheyrusenu rather than trying to recreate ghosts and deny facts?
Last shabbos, I asked a 7 or 9 year old boy (whose father is a Radical meshichist) who was wearing a Yechi yarmulke why he was doing so. He told me that the Rebbe is alive. I asked him whose kever was next to the Rayatz. His answer wasn't "Ma Hu Bachaim" ... no his answer was "there is no Kever, only the Frierdiger Rebbe is buried there. He wasn't smiling. He repeated it to me three times with a straight face".
If you or others think this is healthy or normal. Think again, I'd suggest. As I said, we don't pretend the Beis Hamikdash wasn't destroyed either, nor do we wait for the ghost of the Cohen Gadol to emerge from a replica ... and indeed, we don't stop davening 3 times a day for Geulah!
I wonder what "Mir Darf Leben Mit Di Tzeit" means in today's context? It surely doesn't mean creating figments of people's imaginations?