Friday, November 5, 2010

ווידוי ביכורים is tough to listen to!

A Guest Post by the Bray of Fundie


Mei HaShiloakh Parshas Ki Savo

I have been following Tzig's series, Learning or Working - What Some Rabbis say, with great interest as it is both a compelling societal “hock” and touches me personally on many levels. The Chernobyler shtikel he posted reminded me of a Torah I saw many years ago in מי השילוח . We are all familiar with the posuk before Matan Torah of כה תאמר לבית יעקב ותגד לבני ישראל, and its famous Rashi: לנשים וע"ה בלשון רכה, להודיען שכר מצות ולא העונש, ולת"ח יגיד דברים הקשין כגידין. In this shtikel the Izhbitzer, ZY”A runs with the idea that הגדהimplies “tough talk” and says that it’s hard for the Kohen in the Miqdash, the full-time learner and עובד השם, see halokha yud/yud beis) to hear what his brother, the "Srulik Poyer" farmer has to say.

While K’lal Yisrael obviously needs both segments of society, the learners and the earners, the trick for those of us not learning and davening full time, but still getting our hands dirty in a post-agrarian, post-industrial society/economy is to still be מקדש the mud, not to be turned into it. I recall learning once (though the author and sefer escapes me now) that this sanctification of the mud, flesh and blood is the essential purpose of human existence altogether, i.e. to actualize the Torah in a material world. For the אורות and abstract concepts of the Torah in their pristine rukhniyus'dika purity alone the נשמה would have been better off remaining disembodied in the עולמות עליונים. Human life in עולם הזה is about transforming גשם into רוח and חומר into ,צורה and the neshoma can’t do that without a גוף and מצוות מעשיות. This is what I always think about whenever I hear the haunting evocative Nichoach melody .הנשמה יורדת לתוך הגוף

I thank the Tzig for this opportunity. A gutten Shabbos.

41 comments:

  1. I love the Izbitzer stuff as a whole , but his views are not mainstream Chasidus, evntough this piece is very standard the Alter Rebbe is saying the same concept in the Igeres on Tzedoka.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Standard? I think this is pretty radical apparently saying that the full-time oved feels rebuked by the farmer doing מצוות מעשיות. Then again I'm coming from a yeshivisha rather than khasidisha חנוך.

    ReplyDelete
  3. IMHuO any Izhbitzer Torah than doesn't take everything that you "know" and stand it on its ear is not ראוי לשמו.

    ReplyDelete
  4. The Breslover "mipnay mah" is a classic. It enspires people to actually believe in hell and not merely think that connecting with a Rebbe is a Munkatzer passport.

    Nice post, Fundie, the Izbitzer has a pro learning peice on this week's parhsah.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Bray of Fundie,
    Birur Hanitzotzas is not a chasidic concept at all, the Gra and his Talmidim were all on the same page as the chasidim
    regarding learning Kabala and all its concepts.In the later years of the Yeshiva world it was totaly choked. Their was some small schools in the misnagdic world that kept the kabala flame burning as the Leshem (rav Eliashev's grandfather )but the mainstream yeshiva world is alien to it completely.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anon
    where is the shleepping out of hell concept coming from? only for 1 pilgrimage to Uman to the Rebbes grave?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Birur Hanitzotzas is not a chasidic concept at all, the Gra and his Talmidim were all on the same page as the chasidim
    regarding learning Kabala and all its concepts.


    Fine. But is there no birur haNitzotzos going on during לימוד התורה?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bray,
    What's it with the "kh" you use instead of "ch"??

    ReplyDelete
  9. Tzig, you giving a blogging workshop this weekend?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Can the khoshover guest be megaleh sod to all the ignorant khnokes who are lost in darkness and cannot understand ivre mit teitsh benogeyeh the title "Braie of Fundie"? Epes an allusion to VELTLICHER LITERATUR ? And what's with the shleger mit di boxing gloves? Kol Tuv.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Bray,
    You must be quite desperate

    ReplyDelete
  12. Bray

    Please take a look at all the sources you will realize that the derech hatorah hanormalit is the chasidic way, and not the brainwashed Bies yakov way. ואצטט את דברי רמ"א יו"ד סי' רמ"ו סכ"א.
    ומעלה גדולה למי שמתפרנס ממעשה ידיו, שנאמר: יגיע כפיך כי תאכל וגו'. וכל המשים על לבו לעסוק בתורה ולא לעשות מלאכה להתפרנס מן הצדקה, הרי זה מחלל השם ומבזה התורה, שאסור ליהנות מדברי תורה. וכל תורה שאין עמה מלאכה, גוררת עון וסופו ללסטם הבריות. (לשון הטור). וכל זה בבריא ויכול לעסוק במלאכתו או בדרך ארץ קצת ולהחיות עצמו, (רבינו ירוחם ורבינו יונה נתיב ב' וכ"כ הרמ"ה), אבל זקן או חולה, מותר ליהנות מתורתו ושיספקו לו (לכ"ע). ויש אומרים דאפילו בבריא מותר (בית יוסף בשם תשובת רשב"ץ /ח"א, קמ"ז, קמ"ח/). ולכן נהגו בכל מקומות ישראל שהרב של עיר יש לו הכנסה וספוק מאנשי העיר, כדי שלא יצטרך לעסוק במלאכה בפני הבריות ויתבזה התורה בפני ההמון. (אברבנאל בפירוש מסכת אבות). ודוקא חכם הצריך לזה, אבל עשיר, אסור. ויש מקילין עוד לומר דמותר לחכם ולתלמידיו לקבל הספקות מן הנותנים כדי להחזיק ידי לומדי תורה, שעל ידי זה יכולין לעסוק בתורה בריוח. ומ"מ מי שאפשר לו להתפרנס היטב ממעשה ידיו ולעסוק בתורה, מדת חסידות הוא ומתת אלהים היא, אך אין זה מדת כל אדם, שא"א לכל אדם לעסוק בתורה ולהחכים בה ולהתפרנס בעצמו. (גם זה בתשובה הנזכרת). וכל זה דשרי היינו שנוטל פרס מן הצבור או הספקה קבועה, אבל אין לו לקבל דורונות מן הבריות. והא דאמרינן: כל המביא דורון לחכם כאלו מקריב בכורים, היינו בדורונות קטנים שכן דרך בני אדם להביא דורון קטן לאדם חשוב, אפילו הוא עם הארץ. (רבינו ירוחם בשם רבינו יונה)

    ReplyDelete
  13. This is my pshat on Bray of Fundie. The Bay of Fundy is in New Scotland in Canada. About 1500 miles from Peoria. There is an idiom in der ehnglesheh shprach "every ass likes to hear himself bray" bray is the cry of an ass. There is no shortage of asses on this blog -present company included. They also like to hear themselves spout their opinions. Fundie is short for fundamentalist. Proste ivri taitch fundamentalist is a chareidi, der chooshuve oilam is chareidi. To sum up it means the ass' cry of a chareidi. The Bray is making khoizek of chareidim. I may expand this for my Phd thesis.

    ReplyDelete
  14. here's an idea fo mr.fed up

    http://www.ci.peoria.il.us/eop#evacuation

    ReplyDelete
  15. recently on Matzav

    "Rav Kaplan, who learned at Rav Avrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik’s Yeshivas Brisk on Rechov Press before opening his own yeshiva, is a son-in-law of Rav Michel Feinstein zt”l, who, in turn, was a son-in-law of the Brisker Rov, Rav Yitzchok Zev Soloveitchik zt”l."

    Notice a spelling mistake?

    ReplyDelete
  16. The Rebbe advises parents looking to adopt to adopt from gentiles instead of BT's because he is concerned that they have yichus problems. I assume this also encompasses marrying into BT families.

    ReplyDelete
  17. lets stop all the massive publicity apparatus.Let Lubavitch continue its work to spread Yiddishkayt without PR and cult of personality. Tell me how anyone except for the fund raisers would be worse off for that ? You know prior to 1950 the worst insult a Chabadnik could hurl was "a chitzon". What happened in the interm ??And what happened to the mahus of a "pnimi"??
    The PR has nothing to do with Yiddishkayt (bayshanim) and certainly with Chassidus (hatznea Leches).
    Next lets stop the cult of personality, chassidim could and perhaps should believe in their REBBE as the Zaddik Hazaddikim and "tsinnor of the shefa(quote me on that)but why propogate this belief to others to outsiders who do not know the aleph Bays ? , whats the point of the rebbe's picture all over the place ??

    ReplyDelete
  18. What's it with the "kh" you use instead of "ch"??

    same as the q instead of k

    Bray,
    You must be quite desperate


    is it the content of the post or its appearance on "Circus tent" that betokens my desperation? Either way..I don't get it.

    The Bray is making khoizek of chareidim.

    You hit the nail on the head with the Bay of Fundy. As for making khoizek...not at all. I first coined this handle when I was the resident troll on DovBear and it was desigend as good-nature self-parody and a lampooning of the expectations of the readership there . It was precede by mouth-breather and knuckle-dragging barbarian but i found this far cleverer and it just stuck.

    How does yikhus problems of BTs have anything to do with this post or even the prior comments?

    ReplyDelete
  19. "is it the content of the post or its appearance on "Circus tent" that betokens my desperation? Either way..I don't get it."

    You hit it on the nail,Bray!!!


    Why would a bright fellow like you need to stoop and beg to get onto a blog run by a Lubavitcher,for Lubavitchers and for in his mind "not yet" Lubavitchers??
    You need to kiss up to this type of immature delusionalism (is this a word?)
    The guy who runs the blog is a typical immature kool-aider..
    Bray, for shame!!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Reb "Fed Up in Peoria": An astute analysis. The Khnokes and Baink Kvetcher thank you.
    Reb "Bray": Dakht zich az Bray,Ireland hot a shaiches mit Oscar Wilde. If so there are many levels of interpretation to your "handle." Gantz Klug.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Bray
    I apologize for the irrelevant and asinine comments, i should've warned you in advance

    But what is it takkeh that brings out the "best" in your landsleit, the so-called "bnei Teyreh?"

    ReplyDelete
  22. wrong. OW was sent on shlichus to Cally, not to Ireland.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I didn't make myself clear, i meant making khoizek of chareidim in a tongue in cheek manner. Your self deprecation is legendary.

    Thanks to Mr. anonymous for the escape plans from Peoria.

    Thanks to Klainer,A. for the compliment.

    ReplyDelete
  24. You don't have to go all the way to Peoria to be fed up.
    I"d fed up, here in New York

    ReplyDelete
  25. I wish there was a blog post where the Kinnus and merits and lack thereof could be discussed.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Bray,
    If you think kissing up will get you anywhere...........

    ReplyDelete
  27. http://www.shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=46149


    Like it!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Excitement is building as the biggest Kinnus Hashluchim ever is about to open.
    Watch it live!Starting 5:30 pm Eastern standard

    ReplyDelete
  29. Any link for the live broadcast?

    ReplyDelete
  30. I"m going to get some beer and peanuts and watch these clowns at the kinnus.
    Chabad.org and vus is neias will carry the feed

    ReplyDelete
  31. Millions of people worlwide will watch the Kinnus live.I hope there will be no issues with the broadcast.
    Today most houses have internet so the traffic will be insane

    ReplyDelete
  32. Damned hook up not work iung for me.
    Anyone else have issues?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Nice to see what the lubob to with the money they raise

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anyobody else watching?
    What do you think?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Tzeirei Hashluchim choir cute, can't hold a candle to Pirchei Miami, though.

    ReplyDelete
  36. all banquet/kinus talk should happen HERE

    further kinus comments will be moved or deleted, depending on my mood.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Where did the chior practice?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Mr Hirshel Tzig, you have to understand that not everyone who critisises hates the Rebbe and Chabad. On the contrary, the love and caring that we feel for the Rebbe and his movement makes us want to cry out when we see things being done which appear to be against what Chabad stands for. If we didn't care so much we wouldn't bother expressing our opinions.

    Surely Ahavas Yisroel applies to those who critisise as well as those who agree with us.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Bray,
    If you think kissing up will get you anywhere.


    Anschel...

    A. I fail to see how quoting a sefer that confirms voss shtait in many other seforim כיהודה ועוד לקרא constitutes "kissing up"

    B. If you mean posting here on Circus tent then it already has gotten me somewhere.

    Check the archives of my now defunct blog and tell me how many of my posts ever garnered 40 comments? Even discounting the 27 comments that we're either klers on my pseudonym and/or agenda or about the kinus haShelukhim, check how many of my posts on my own sorry blog got even 13 comments!

    ReplyDelete

Please think before you write!
Thanks for taking the time to comment
ביטע טראכטן פאר'ן קאמענטירן, און שרייבן בכבוד'דיג, ווי עס פאסט פאר אידן יראי השם

ביטע נוצן עפעס א צונאמען כדי דער שמועס זאל קענען אנגיין אויף א נארמאלן שטייגער

Please, no anonymous comments!!