From the Marmuresh/Carpathen Yizkor Book (1968)
Free Translation:
We know that Reb Mordchelle from Nadvorneh would daven very late every day. Before beginning to daven he would say with a nigun, full of devotion, that would arouse the hearts of those present - I imagine he davened with a minyan, even that late -
"Ribbono Shel Olam, leybediger (how do you translate "Leybedig?") king and Creator. I've tardied, but you know that I wasn't playing cards, nor was I at the theater, and that I only served you."
They say in the name of the last Brisker Rov that he was "unimpressed" with those who are in the realm of Tzaddik Goyzer veHKB"H Mekayem. HKB"H Goyzer VeHatzaddik Mekayem was more to his liking - he liked those Tzaddikim who did what the A-mighty asked of all Jews. If I may say so - this is one of those fundamental differences we see between the disciples of the Besh"t and those that did not take on his ways. Reb Mordchelle Nadvorner was one of the Rebbes of Reb Shayelle Kerstierer and one of those who pushed him to be a Rebbe and "helf Yidden" like he did. Reb Mordchelle may not have done Chesed on the "farnem" that Reb Shayelle did, which was stand on his feet and cook and prepare and serve food and drink to poor and tired Yidden, but in his hoyf a Jew was helped, and that may have been the number one activity there too. His travels all over Rumania, Hungary and Galicia were for that puropse too, to help Yidden. And it was from him that Reb Shayelle learned how to do what he did for 50 years. Reb Mordchelle also invited him to come to B'Kerestur after the heirs of Reb Hershelle Lisker weren't happy that he was praving Rabbisteve in their town and made it known so. Imagine that happening: A Rebbe inviting another Rebbe to a small town to set up shop there... That's what many of you don't like about Chassidim in general. They think that have some direct line to G-d and don't need to "wait on line" like everybody else. Why did Reb Mordchelle think that G-d would forgive him, just because he said that cute line every day, that he wasn't playing cards or going to the theater? Couldn't he do what he was doing later in the day, just like the Brisker Rov did?! And the Chazon Ish?! And the Chofetz Chaim?!
when marmorosh like yourself start getting oifgeklert is when we know judaism is screwed and the haskala is coming back...
ReplyDeleteworry not, Grainom, no "Haskala" is coming back.
ReplyDeleteBesides, I'm not from the Marmuresh, not now not ever, not from any side, not me, not my wife.
an ingerisher naar zecher, regardless
ReplyDeleteGrainom
ReplyDelete"the haskala is coming back.."
there is no haskola out here, its all guys and gals with short term temptations.Give me a Shdal, Wiesel in chochmas Yisroel or Asimov ...
Rav Shlezinger from London claims that the Brisker Reb Velvele was asked, if it does not bother him to associate with reb Yoel of Satmar, since he does sheloi kehalocha with his late davening, He answered our war today is with Zionists and not with Mincha Maariv. (good sound bite but I cant vouch much for it since Shlezinger is not considered too honest )
ReplyDeleteour milchama today is oifgeklerta b'heimishe yidden who are mekarer yiddishkeit
ReplyDeletetzig, what is the halacha when nitel falls on a leil Shhabbos? is it a nidche? when do we celebrate it?
ReplyDeleteby chasidim you hold nittel shabbos too, in belz the rebbes were saying torah shabos nittel for they considered their torahs for tefilahs
ReplyDeleteYour post reminds me of a time when I had a conversation with a Lubavitcher about eating before davening.
ReplyDeleteHe told me that it says in Shulchan Oruch that a someone who is very hungry has the din of a "choleh" and is permitted to eat.I asked him why are all Lubavitchers hungrier than anybody else?To which he answered that they learn chassidus before davening.So I asked him why don't they get up an hour earlier, learn an hour, daven,before they are so hungry,just like many chasidic yeshivas that learn "far tugs"?
His answer was that he had never heard of "far tugs"! and "that was the way it's set up in Lubavitch".
Bekitsur:Lubavitchers eat before davening because they want to and will "find" halachik reasoning that allows them to.
Same goes to the rest of chasidishe Rebbes that daven when they want to.
The maaseh with the Griz regarding the Satmar Rebbe is found in Uvdot Ve-Hanhagot Le-Beit Brisk.
ReplyDelete“They say in the name of the last Brisker Rov that he was "unimpressed" with those who are in the realm of Tzaddik Goyzer veHKB"H Mekayem. HKB"H Goyzer VeHatzaddik Mekayem was more to his liking - he liked those Tzaddikim who did what the A-mighty asked of all Jews.”
ReplyDeleteIn the biography of the Chafetz Chaim, his son replied to a group of Warsaw Chassidim who asked him to recount mofsim of his father because “Tzaddik Goyzer veHKB"H Mekayem” that his father was a different kind of Tzadik ‘HKB"H Goyzer VeHatzaddik Mekayem’.
Could you provide a link to the Marmuresh Yizkor Book? Is there a link to the entire book as originally printed,and not just to a partial translation of limited excerpts ?
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Twistleton
ReplyDeleteDo chasidim have to apoligize for larning the mamar chazal Kipshito?
Mordechai Tzion
ReplyDelete"is found in Uvdot Ve-Hanhagot Le-Beit Brisk."
but who is the mesaper?
Yossi
ReplyDelete"just like many chasidic yeshivas that learn "far tugs"?
I thing that te offical seder is Lubavicher yeshivhas are later the "Fartugs" yeshivahs, plz dont talk about these "Fartugs" yeshivas, its a bastion of Amaratzous for decades
"I thing that te offical seder is Lubavicher yeshivhas are later the "Fartugs" yeshivahs, plz dont talk about these "Fartugs" yeshivas, its a bastion of Amaratzous for decades"
ReplyDeleteBack up your dirty allegation1
Bastion of ameratzus????
give me a good lamdan of Queens or Monroe, with all the fartugs, give me a outside yeshiva that picked a talmid of theirs for a rosh or magid shiur, Zilch, Nada
ReplyDelete"plz dont talk about these "Fartugs" yeshivas, its a bastion of Amaratzous for decades"
ReplyDelete"give me a good lamdan of Queens or Monroe, with all the fartugs, give me a outside yeshiva that picked a talmid of theirs for a rosh or magid shiur, Zilch, Nada"
You call others amaratzim, yet you display your own ignorance.
The chassidishe world including the "fartogs yeshivos" turn out thousands of Talmidei Chachomim and Gaonim.
In the chassidishe world, having an "outside yeshiva that picked a talmid of theirs for a rosh or magid shiur" is not on the list of goals or priorities.
"Twistleton
ReplyDeleteDo chasidim have to apoligize for larning the mamar chazal Kipshito"
If that has become the yardstick of measuring a Godol, YES!!
Der Ruv
ReplyDeleteit is not the goal by chasidim, but u need some yardsick
Twistleton
ReplyDeletetheir are some tzadikim that were meausured only by that,but the majority of Rebbes were gaonim adirim but he need to do a sliver of ruach hakodesh, or mofas mizman lizman. ,Especial in the last 100 of years,
"give me a good lamdan of Queens or Monroe, with all the fartugs, give me a outside yeshiva that picked a talmid of theirs for a rosh or magid shiur, Zilch, Nada"
ReplyDeleteHow about someone who learned in Lubavitch, lately that became a magid shiur in non Lubavitch?
"it is not the goal by chasidim, but u need some yardsick"
ReplyDeleteYou can't measure the success of a medical school by how many professional musicians it turns out.
You can't measure one group using another group's goals.
"their are some tzadikim that were meausured only by that,but the majority of Rebbes were gaonim adirim but he need to do a sliver of ruach hakodesh, or mofas mizman lizman. ,Especial in the last 100 of years,"
ReplyDeleteWe have a real '"maven" here.
Shulem
ReplyDeletethey would take a goos few guys for their lomdus, but scared of getting some good minds opened to chabad, which is very scary for all sheltered groups. Kaspish..
EvanstonJew
ReplyDeletehere's the link. Sorry it took so long to get back to you on that. Snow and all...