Rav Yehuda Tirnauer, z"l, with a meshulach in the YCS lunchroom, circa 1959. The young man on the right, in the background, is Reb Nissen Neiman, Vizhnitzer Dayan.
The man who sent me this picture, sent it on the condition that I name this thread like that, "The Rabbi of the Homeless." At first we thought that this picture illustrated that idea perfectly, but then he realized that it was a meshulach resting on the bench after a filling lunch. I wasn't aware of that aspect of Rav Tirnauer, who passed away 2 weeks ago, despite me growing up in BP, and despite the fact that my zeide would attend his shiurim daily after he retired. But this is the case, apparently. In Yeshiva Ch'san Sofer on the LES, many of the bachurim were either born during the war or immediately after, and some had parents who could not relate to them. These boys needed a man who would listen to them, and RYT was the man. And that relationship lasted for decades and spanned generations, not just while they were in Yeshivah. Many of these men continued to seek and heed his advice even when dealing with their own children and the issues that arise with raising them. Which makes you think that maybe the fact that so many homeless Jews found a quasi-home in the basement of Shomrei Shabbos shul, where RYT was Rov, was no coincidence after all.
Hirshel, growing up in BP would not be a reason for you to know R'Tirnauer.
ReplyDeleteHow often did you daven on shabbes in Shomrei Shabbes? During the week, you hardly saw the ruv and siknce you are a young fellow, you would have only known him as an older man anyway
Any thoughts on the recently discovered manuscrip in University of Berlin, of an early Achron who wrote extensively on Rashi's pirush Al Hatorah, and the similarity between the pirush and many of the Rebbe's sichos on Rashi?
ReplyDeleteman!
ReplyDeleteI hate when people do that, ask about the news of the day in a TOTALLY irrelevant thread.
anyway, Cecil, I haven't seen that story. Where was it reported?
It has yet to be reported. There is a race between Freidman and Jeshuren over who can get their hands on it first. I heard that the Noveminsker is trying to stop them.
ReplyDeleteso who found it?
ReplyDeleteand what's the claim? that the Rebbe copied from him? did he memorize the whole manuscript?
and you know this how?
http://www.bhol-forums.co.il/topic.asp?cat_id=4&topic_id=2879900&forum_id=771
ReplyDeletethe concept of Peshuta shel Mikro is constantly in MASKIL LEDOVID,
ReplyDeleteCecil
ReplyDelete"I heard that the Noveminsker is trying to stop them."
stop them from what?
"
So the suggestion is that the Rebbe found and memorised this manuscript in the library stacks while he was at the University of Berlin. And despite being generally punctilious in footnoting everything, he concealed the existence of this manuscript, not even saying something like "I once read that ...". And he relied on his thirty-to-forty year-old memories of this manuscript rather than come up with his own material.
ReplyDeleteIt's possible, I guess, in the sense that it's possible the Rebbe was actually born in Kenya. But it's pretty far-fetched.
Can you provide the Rebbe's birth certificate?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Rebbe is the author? Or is the manuscript a fake, again? Who found it? Does the manuscript really exist?
ReplyDeleteThis whole manuscript is nonsense, since the Rebbe had no chidush, he just applied the klal of Rashi, that he writes many times, that I(Rashi) am writing only Peshutoi shel Mikro. The Rebbe just took it to the extreme that every piece of Rashi, has to match with this dogma.
ReplyDeleteTheir are alot of Rashi commentaries, that are randomly following Rashi in accordance to his dogma,
As an aside, Rav Shapiro of Pardes Katz, just published a new manuscript from a Kadmon, that is a commentary of Rashi, that vaguely works on the same path.
Is Friedman from Torah Vodaas minyan?
ReplyDeletehe is into Rashi
The person who wrote about the ksav yad in berlin university was probably just misquoting fron someone much smarter than him, who said that a ksav yad was found which uses many of the same principles as the Rebbe to explain Rash"i, which is no chiddush as the Rebbe never claimed to have his own kav.
ReplyDeleteI say wait and see till this "claim" is confirmed by somebody outside an anonymous blogger with a name like "Cecil."
ReplyDeleteAlso, I would assume the "Friedman" mentioned is Menachem, the co-author of the recent book.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteit is probably Friedman of BP, it is his field.You can ask his son
The Rebbe's extreme use of the pshuto shel mikrah wrt Rashi AH"T has not been applied for hundreds of years prior to his birth. Furthermore, he takes this concept to the extreme, as he interprets Rashi to adhere to pshuto shel mikrah even if two things are present: 1) farkert from any pirush mentioned in Chazal 2) there are halachik ramifications.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify: the Rebbe interprets Rashi's intention to go not in accourdance with Chazal, even when there are different ramifications (i.e. halachuh l'maysah).
Hence, it would actually be a holiday for the admirers of the Rebbe, if a precedent was indeed discovered [that's why the Novimisker might allow them to publish it]
Maybe you have such a low opinion of your Rebbe that when something is published that back's him up you declare a holiday, but for us, we were fine till now.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter to the Lubabs, if no one learned Rashi like that before the LR came around. Aderaba, that would only prove how great he is.
ReplyDeleteRe: precedent. It is interesting that amongst traditional Jewry, precedent was always respected. IOW, if a Rebbe or R"Y gave an edict, it only had value if it was supported by precedent {even if the precedent wasn't known, or understood, it was given that the proclomation or dey'ah was based on precedent; otherwise, it had not value).
In stark contrast to the current permutation of Chabad. The faithfull couldn't care less if there was precedent to the LR (or his f-i-l innovations). They believe that the very fact that the LR 'said it', gives it intrinsic value, irrespective of precedent. Hence, they fulg it by adhering to the LR's teachings. Why? Because, he said. That creates meaning for it, even if it lacked intrinsic meaning (due to lack of Jewish precedent) but-for the LR's utterance.
And what supports the original precedent in your fairy tale world of jewish learning?
ReplyDeleteFluke
ReplyDelete"It is interesting that amongst traditional Jewry, precedent was always respected"
did reb chaim brisker have a precedent? you fluke,
the Rebbe is ridiculed by his enemies that he writes in his sources in his footnotes even a possuk in chumash, You fluke,
the Rebbe was very happy when anybody would finf him a source
You Fluke
Go and find some new bashing material, don't touch a issue that the Rebbe stands on the opposite side.
On a historical note, for those that don't know, when the shul was formed it was the only one in BP that denied membership to those who were not shomer shabbos. YI required shmiras shabbos from its officers and that was already considered very unusual at the time. The 40 hour work week was a major turning point in the development of American orthodoxy.
ReplyDeleteI gather that RYT z'l was not well or active in recent years when the well intentioned hospitality of Shomer Shabbos Shul was subverted by abusive people. http://wp.me/pFbfD-dC
I wish to thank you for this wonderful picture of R' Tirnauer. In the 1970's, as a young bochur, I davened often in his shul in Washington Heights - Noda B"Yehuda Shul -. I had no close relatives in New York and he opened his home to me for Shabbos and Yom Tov. I knew his family - sons, sons-in-law, etc. They served as beautiful examples of what Yidden - steeped in Talmud Torah, Yiras Shomayim and midos tovos - should be. At the time of his petirah, he did not receive a fraction of the kovod due him in the "frum" news websites. But its ok - he was never about kovod.
ReplyDeleteyou're welcome, Simcha
ReplyDeleteYerachmiel
ReplyDeletenoting goes on in your life besides the abuse,
was Kadafi abused? he acts like he was abused, I think it happened in some Shul in Libya take the next available plane to check it out.