on the first look i thought it was the kaliver (i hope not) however I'm not sure and I'm not sure I want to know either, he seems oblivious to the chutzpah in the circumstances of the surroundings , so do you hirshel! for publishing it.
I never went to lubavitch but someone told me that he seen the LR handover personnaly some kind of cake directly to womans hands.. I'm not sure its true,
This picture maybe dotored with photoshop.. I also think the woman isn't married atleast because her hair isn't covered.. or she maybe related, if not b'zah than b'bu!
Anon "I never went to lubavitch but someone told me that he seen the LR handover personnaly some kind of cake directly to womans hands.. I'm not sure its true," yes he did give lekach(cake) and dollars in womens hand
"I don't think that color photography was popular in Romania in the 50's and 60's."
Agreed. Judging by the hairstyles of the assembled and the colorful frock of the "hippie chick" in the foreground I will say this dates 1969-1973 thereabouts. And this is definitely taking place in either the USA or western Europe, not in E"Y or behind the Iron Curtain.
For a sec I thought is was the Kalover from Willy, but ,no. Firstly, the pic is old, 30 years approx, and the the man has a white beard already,the Kalover is around 70 today. Additionally, the Kalover would not be seen in these suroundings, typically. THE clincher though, is the RING, ON THE RIGHT HAND,second finger from the pinky.I personally don't know any chasidishe ruv who wears a ring and certainly not the Kalover. So maybe it is Zalman Schechter, who is a Galitzianer fin der heim, before he went to Chabad, and I know he likes bekitches.
Here is actually a pic of Zalman, with what appears to be a shtreimel http://www.naropa.edu/inauguration03/robprocession.html.
To me it does not look like the pic here is Zalman, but its difficult to see so it very well may be him, the background and the people, the ring etc make it a good fit
This is Reb Shloima Twerski z"l from denver. The tilted shtreimel, the hippies and the general matzav point toward him, not to mention the physical likeliness.
If this is a wedding the ring is probably the kiddushin ring. Many mesader keddushin's will put the ring on theeir finger, to prevent the ring from getting lost...
all of you missed the most important aspect of this picture, and that is of the streimel, yes way back in in the glory days of belz these tiny village peasants walked on the holiest days of the wear with this type of hat. today belz changed that custom and changed the whole look of the original streimel, what a shame they were lighter on the head and much cheaper.
in bobov our holy rebbi, would never changed. and no, a spudik or kulpik as not in plan.
Oh wow what a yeridah from light streimel to heavy ones and spudiks or kulpiks.. who knows what comes next.. atleast the gartels are the same i hope, in a dor yusim like ours people should even notice this kind of changes that happened or didn't.. and what differnce does it make either way is amazing
Oh wow what a yeridah from light streimel to heavy ones and spudiks or kulpiks.. who knows what comes next.. atleast the gartels are the same i hope, in a dor yusim like ours people should even notice this kind of changes that happened or didn't.. and what differnce does it make either way is amazing
bobov did change? whom you kidding? just take a look at pictures of your holy rebbi in the 50s and 60s and so from his fathers streimel. you went off the cliff with those remarks due to bobov did change with the headgear, he dumpted the kulpik his father wore, he wore a flat hungarien hat, the woman oh please don`t get me there how his seconed rebbetzin and the ripple affect from there on, his mother was mad but i guess helpless at the same time.
Only problem is the Twersky brothers wear Strokes...even back in the 50s and 60s before most of the current Strokes club....
Regarding the second Bobover Rebbetzin....any honest person says she was great at organising the Women's auxiliary but none of her children are anything special...none could make Rebbishe shiduchim (unless you count Mesislish of Sorvosh) and none have many any mark on the chassidish scene until R' Benzion made himself head clown at 48th street.....sad but true....
Many insiders know but will never tell of the agmas nefesh R' Benzion caused his father in the early 70's and how the second Rebbetzin would not back him on so many inyanim....if a wife and children will not listed to a Rebbe...what can you demand of the chassidim....
She is a large part responsible for the shvach keit in Bobov which is so entrenched, Bobov will never be taken seriously as a 'top' chasidus in terms of anything but numbers.....
Criticise Belz all you want ...look what he has built (in terms of Yingerleit and Rabbunim, not buildings)....
reb shlomo of bobov his mother wore a shpitzel, so did he first rebbetzin (mother of future bobov rebbi reb naftuleh), reb shlomo seconed rebbetzin wore a sheitel going against the very psak of the sanz`er rav who they glorify so much, its like pick and choose.
the sanz rav was good in bobov only for stories, but when it came to learning or dress code they did just the opposite. reb shlomo had no say say on his second rebbitzin therefor inpacted on the upbrining of his children.
reb ben zion of bobov 48, takunes on girl speaking only yiddish did not fly, because it was just another of his prep talk.
the twersky colledge students, wear strokis no white socks on shabbos, but yet... forget let me stop here...
as someone already pointed out, the picture is from a tenoyim in 1975 at the house of love and prayer in SF...the caption from the puc states "Reb zalmen signing"
“Criticise Belz all you want ...look what he has built (in terms of Yingerleit and Rabbunim, not buildings)....”
Belz managed to change over from being the craddle of ‘chasidus and kanois’ to become this gentrified modern ‘all dressed up and nowhere to go’ so called chasidus of today, with haskofos anchored in haskalah trying to project itself on others with the protection of the zionist machine behind it… , which resulted in the signing of a ‘kol koreh’ from over 70 great rabbunim included rav weiss z”l of the eideh! The hishoner himself the belzer rebbe has a din of an appikoras! Wow look what that ‘ra-beh’ using the belz brand had accomlished!
Anon "Regarding the second Bobover Rebbetzin....any honest person says she was great at organising the Women's auxiliary but none of her children are anything special...none could make Rebbishe shiduchim" I am no bobover chusid, but your ripping in to bobov is a unfair assessment.He took SIL all great talmidie chachomim, and they all are fathers of nice chasidic families.The Klausenburger also took SIL geonim betorah, each is a diamond for himself, it was a smart move for both of them.
Anon "Belz managed to change over from being the craddle of ‘chasidus and kanois’ to become this gentrified modern ‘all dressed up and nowhere to go’ so called chasidus of today, with haskofos anchored in haskalah trying to project itself on others with the protection of the zionist machine behind it… , which resulted in the signing of a ‘kol koreh’ from over 70 great rabbunim included rav weiss z”l of the eideh! The hishoner himself the belzer rebbe has a din of an appikoras! Wow look what that ‘ra-beh’ using the belz brand had accomlished!" the holy Reb Arele Belzer saw that no kanues in israel will save or built true yiddishkiet in the new country,so he stripped belz from the idol worshiping of Kanuas that gets u no where. I am no chusid of the Belzer rebbe of agrifas,but he had to follow the path of his holy uncle on the hanhoga and he was matzliach as did all the gedolim in that era. This kol koreh against the Belzer backfired on the Signators, how foolish they were all to fold to the terror of satmar of those days. it is as much worth as the Issur on the Eruv in Willi Issur on the Blatt Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe Issur on the Arizona wheat Issur on KJ chicken No movement politicized torah to the extent of satmar, The kuntriesim from both sides are amazingly megaleh ponem Btorah on a big scale.
anon: "the holy Reb Arele Belzer saw that no kanues in israel will save or built true yiddishkiet in the new country"
EIN KEITZ L'DIVREI SHEKER! tipical belzer new age 'haskalah' mixing up 'lokshen with bundlec' lies and innuendoes even on their own! da ma shtishev l'apikores.. (as hirshel would say) KISH MIR IN TUCHES.
Issur on the Eruv in Willi (so did reb moshe feinstein) Issur on the Blatt (did you ever hear of bitul torah) Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois (small tow europa did the same thing,) Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe (divrei yoel among others) Issur on the Arizona wheat (ein chodesh tachas hashmesh, zeh bkoh v’zeh b’koh) Issur on KJ chicken (shcita cutz! Was an issur in europe to)
Is there a new torah written by reb arele,(or, the current kapo of belz) or a falsified one atleast like the one from kuk! that one can see their responses and shitas to accept or argue with like satmar and lubavitch has, or do you expect jews to accept the new 'toras belz' feeded to us as they see fit depending on the agenda of the day!
SR z"l said ones he should of gone out against the 'new belz' more forceful than sanz went after sadigere! (even that he did exactly that in his v'yoel m'oshe, but not in a personal manner) i heard that as a kid but now it start falling in place!!!
It is amazing to read in the belz publications that reb arele z"l met itshe meir on 'yecudis' for over an hour before he blessed the sinai war! but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts) the SR z"l lowered and begged for a 'yecidus' meeting with the ruv (trying to explain to him he should stay out of this controversy) he was declined!!! The answer on both is ITSHE MEIR! & SRUEL FOGEL the pioneers of the NEW BELZ!
intresting how you list all petty maclokis of 'satmar' but you know nothing of the 'belzer maclokis' how he came to power by all treif means! and rodifed everyone and everybody from the edeh! to macnifkah-belz to their OWN OLD BELZER CHASIDIM just to stay in power even today!
“but he had to follow the path of his holy uncle on the hanhoga”
will the new ‘yenikele’ of belz also follow the ‘new belz’ or can he start a revised ‘new belz’ line.. since he was conceived by alternate methods so he can start a new lineage… with a new ‘belzer teniah’…
Since I have litle intimate shaychis with Chagas Chassidim, perhaps the chachuve readers can help me. Years ago I was told that when Reb Zalman became interested in Bobov he made himself a shtreimel in Manitoba but the Chassidm in Brooklyn told him that the shventz went the wrong direction. I know nothing of shtreimlech , whats the wrong direction ?
Anon "Is there a new torah written by reb arele,(or, the current kapo of belz) or a falsified one atleast like the one from kuk! that one can see their responses and shitas to accept or argue with like satmar and lubavitch has, or do you expect jews to accept the new 'toras belz' feeded to us as they see fit depending on the agenda of the day!" My friend throwing names Kapo, Kuk, does not talk to nobody, its good for the walls of the toilets of the Charadiem Shul in KJ, For the record, the only that wrote a New Torah on the modern state of Israel is RJT of KJ, he elevated a midrash in Shir Hashirim in to higher then the 13 principles, with all the Titelbaum twists and Pilpulim.
Anon "It is amazing to read in the belz publications that reb arele z"l met itshe meir on 'yecudis' for over an hour before he blessed the sinai war! but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts) the SR z"l lowered and begged for a 'yecidus' meeting with the ruv (trying to explain to him he should stay out of this controversy) he was declined!!! The answer on both is ITSHE MEIR! & SRUEL FOGEL the pioneers of the NEW BELZ!" Why dont you give for Hagoan Hachosid Reb Yitzchok Mier atleast the title Reb? You really think that he was less in Torah or Yiras Shomaim then Reb Nusen Yosef Miezels, Shoproner Ruv Or Reb Avrum Lietner, he was as big a lamdan and yiras shomaim and for sure Bnon Shel Kedoshim as them.I don't blame you, a kid that was brought up in this powerful hate culture.
Anon " but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts)" how exactly are you the Manhig Hador when the majority of charadie judaism and majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite of your Shita?
Anon " but you know nothing of the 'belzer maclokis' how he came to power by all treif means! and rodifed everyone and everybody" lets not open a can of worms, and start counting all his machlokas in all the villages in Unterland of Rebinie haKodash
Anon "Issur on the Eruv in Willi (so did reb moshe feinstein) Issur on the Blatt (did you ever hear of bitul torah) Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois (small tow europa did the same thing,) Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe (divrei yoel among others) Issur on the Arizona wheat (ein chodesh tachas hashmesh, zeh bkoh v’zeh b’koh) Issur on KJ chicken (shcita cutz! Was an issur in europe to)" Your answer is gevaldig
Anon writes: “throwing names Kapo, Kuk, does not talk to nobody, its good for the walls of the toilets..” “he elevevated a midrash in shir hashirim” “the only that wrote a New Torah on the modern state of Israel is RJT of KJ”
It seems to me your’re putting more time in the toilets than in beis hamedrish,
The 3 oats is a beferesha gemurah ‘kesibus 111:’ (by the way is there anything wrong if it’s a midrash?)
Thanks for attributing the “torah” to SR z”l because this shita based in ‘halacha’ was the shita of “most” gedolim before WWII foremost the belzer rav z”l RYD, as mentioned in the letters of the mersh”ab
I’m sure it’s a coincedence that you mention the belzer kapo in one sentence with kuk they have many similarities to be compared to, although kuk was a ‘talmid cuchim’ and the belzer is not.
This photo is of Zalman shachter shalomi.Taken in the house of love and prayer in 1975.At a tenoyim.. How this picture,got the discussion to belz is interesting..What is interesting to note,zalman says on a tape somewhere that himself and shlomo carlebach where the first shluchim in america that were sent still by the frieyediger rebbe.The rebbe told them to go to universities..
Anon writes: “Why don’t you give for Hagoan Hachosid Reb Yitzchok Mier atleast the title Reb?”
He signed his name ‘l’charpa il’druin olam’ on the ‘megilas atzmuis’, he twisted and turned the ‘shitas hakadmunim’ to bribe and twist the gedolim of his time to agree and consent on ‘something they had no clue on’ mildly said..
He was a member in the keneset haminim, and no other the their PM golda meir eulogized him in the keneset best by saying: “He single handedly bought over the most anti-zionist group agudath israel to become a fieriest zionist organization”
anon writes:“how exactly are you the Manhig Hador when the majority of charadie judaism and majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite of your Shita?”
Your qustion is your answer like moshe rebini said: “yifkot hashem eloki haricus!” A manhig who can go against the siprit of all!, By the way unfortunately most jews don’t keep shabos does that change anything? And how come as you say the “majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite..” but he the SR z”l is known most, quoted most, influenced in hundreds of ways klal yisruel in positive ways and his every word verbally and in writing is being discussed most although he died 30 years ago! The anwer is in the gemorah nedurim 32: on the pusik of keheles 9: when the yatzer hara is present ‘no one mentions the the yetzer tov!
Anon "when the yatzer hara is present ‘no one mentions the the yetzer tov!" bottom line the Satmar Ruv is the Yetzer tov and all gedolim that survived the war were the Yetzer Hora, and he is the Manhig Hador I would laugh for the next hour if it would not be the nine days
Anon "He signed his name ‘l’charpa il’druin olam’ on the ‘megilas atzmuis’, he twisted and turned the ‘shitas hakadmunim’ to bribe and twist the gedolim of his time to agree and consent on ‘something they had no clue on’ mildly said.." what is your proof that he twisted the Gedolim to his views? did Gelbman tell you that? or Ezriel Gluck? Can I say that Sender Deutch or Shulem Laufer twisted the Sakmer Ruv? Or Sakmer Ruv was the smartest godul that survived the war?
Anon "It seems to me your’re putting more time in the toilets than in beis hamedrish," isn"t it the sakmar think to do in the morning? 3 hours Hachonas and 1 hour Davening?
All of the arguments on this thread and countless other ones in the past are the result of a lifetime of indoctrination from nursery to Kollel. You learn in Satmer then the SR is the one and only; you learn in Lubavitch then the Rebbe is the greatest.The same goes for Belz,Ger,and others.No one cares about the truth,it's just" my Rebbe is bigger and holier and smarter than your Rebbe."Does anyone have the courage to stand on their own two feet[metaphorically] and do some independent thinking about Zionism,secular studies i.e.non-Torah forms of knowledge like science and history,and what it means to be a Jew in the year 5771? Just a thought.With all due respect it is in the best interest of the Rebbes and their various "retainers" to keep the oilem ignorant and childlike.If a mind is a terrible thing to waste then why doesn't someone try using it?
so what you saying we all rely on our rebbes and you rely on yourself! so what is 'urself' saying some inside please? is it 'mebusri eczah eloki'? or is it 'kshani liatzmi ma ani' ? or waht?
Wyatt "With all due respect it is in the best interest of the Rebbes and their various "retainers" to keep the oilem ignorant and childlike.If a mind is a terrible thing to waste then why doesn't someone try using it?" with all due respect to the person who is above and beyond all this juvenile bickering It is in the interest of the Gedolie Yisroel from the era of the Rashba to keep the masses of Klal Yisroel in the blind of all upcoming modernities. There were always some yechidai segula that were exposed and stayed frum. The only group today that opened it self to the secular world is the MO/YU community, there success is noting to write home about
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Shalomi started the Lubavitcher day school in NH and then moved on to Mass. From there he went to Canada. Along the way he used his mind and saw that other religions seek divinity as well. He got interested in other religions. And then he got invovled in the counter culture. Zalman is a very powerful teacher and "rebbe". Indeed he left the narrow path of Orthodoxy almost in a aveirah lishmah manner to bring hundreds if not more back to a jewish identity.Shlomo acted in the ame manner. Its sad that he left , sadder that orthodoxy could not find a place for him and even sadder as to how he has ended up. If these 2 gents were the first shluchim , they have indeed probably attracted more people to Orthodoxy than all other shluchim combined since then. Reb Shlomo Twerski also went on his own path which also left him in pieces shattered , but he too could no longer navigate the narrow path of our rigid middle class conformist materialistic orthodoxy. he was much different than zalman but thats the name of the game people are different . But in the Orthodoxy we have created since 1945 all are expected to be the same cookie cutter pieces.
What is this nonsense attacking Rabbi Itche Mayer Levin .He was the Bendiner rav's son , the son in law of the Imre Emes and a chashuve Tore leader and activist.. He signed the Declaration OF Independence and I am certian "his rebbe" approved of this. You think he was minister of social welfare for 3 years without the approval of the MGH ? without the approval of the Bais Israel ?Instaed of attcking him why not go for the goal _ attack the Gerer rebbe's. What really bothers the kanoim in Jslm is thta he took the organizational control of the Aguda in Israel from the yishuv hayashen
"you have a letter from the RYD mentioning the Gimel Shvouth?"
No, but he signed off on the gemara kesibus daf 111: so I'll accept that as a yes, and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!
Anon "and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!" are u sure he quotes the Belzer Ruv? where?
Anon "i"m sorry to be rude bur ren aron of belz was no manhig "hador", maybe a tzadik, but definitly not a manhig, not before and not after the war. fact." why was he not a manhig hador? because he was not a chevra man? Can you get me a poor decision that he did? You think he had to consult with the Voidislover Ruv on his decisions? Wasnt his decision of signing the Chov Kodesh of participating in the general elections the right move? the intelligent and responsible way to build Klal Yisroel in the new country? Did not these gedolim built up the biggest network of Torah and Kedusha since Churban Habais? Were you ever in a holy town of Bietar, Kiryath Sefer? Dont you think that the person that opposed Chinuch Atzmai was a irresponsible Manhig Yisroel? You think that the Belzer Ruv was not holy enough to know if the Miracles of the Sinai War is from the sitra dekedusha or Sitra Achra? You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel? As they like to teach in hate infested Satmar Cheders.
anon 10:57, two requests from the general populace: 1. Refer to rabbomin who you sure as h*** won't ever reach in torah and yiras shamayim with a 'Rov,' even though he doesn't have the same hashkafos as you 2. speak in your native language so, lch"p, some of us understand you
Schneur: In the new agenda driven book "the rebbe"he writes about the rebbe mm shaychis with zalman..I wonder what zalmans opinions were even before he left to be mikarev.What is known-that even shlomo held zalman went to way to far..even though shlomo himself was ostracized from chabad. Zalman still holds himself a talmud of the rebbe(whatever that means).. Although they agreed the black and white way of life is not for them.They seemingly struggled with a concrete path they wanted there disciples to follow.With shlomo staying closer to main stream,zalman completely leaving orthodoxy behind.
The Skulener and Ribnitzet were bashmutzed. I besmirched Hornisteipel-Denver Tolna-Harvard Marlon Brando Sachsen Littlefeather Davy Crockett Pocahontas
fed up in peoria, who ever you are, did you ever play "guess who"? if yes i"m sure you always lost. you are such a bad guess-er.go on youtube for video of the hornsteipel rebbi his havdalah or mitzva tantz and let me know is he a rebbi or big time acter.
i cannot understand where a simple question of r` hirshel tzig turned into that r` aron of belz was or was not a manhig, but i"ll just add this, that he was not his father in hanhuga, for sure.
regarding bobov till this day i dont understand hor r` naftuli of bobov fitted into that family, he was such a nice good and tzaddik of a yid, a down to earth person, and to be surrounded by such clowns arounds is big mystery to me.
The wooden necklace clearly visible through the opening of the bekishe, solves the mystery. This is a hippie (member of House of Love and Prayer) dressed up as a rabbi.
Anonymous said... Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:43:00 PM why was he not a manhig hador? – GOOD QUESTION, IDK because he was not a chevra man? – HIS GABOIM SURELY WHERE Can you get me a poor decision that he did? – BESIDES THE ‘COV KUDISH’ ? You think he had to consult with the Voidislover Ruv on his decisions? – IT WOULD OF HELP Wasnt his decision of signing the Chov Kodesh of participating in the general elections the right move? HELL NO! Did not these gedolim built up the biggest network of Torah and Kedusha since Churban Habais? Were you ever in a holy town of Bietar, Kiryath Sefer? – WITH 90% ISRAELIS DESECRATING SHABOS, HOW ABSURD! dont you think that the person that opposed Chinuch Atzmai was a irresponsible Manhig?- OF COURSE NOT You think that the Belzer Ruv was not holy enough to know if the Miracles of the Sinai War is from the sitra dekedusha or Sitra Achra? – BEFORE HE SPOKE TO ITSHE MEIR or AFTER ? You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel? – NO, BUT FROM ISHE MEIR (with his money & influence) YES! As they like to teach in hate infested Satmar Cheders. You are not Rude you are just a ignorant idiot.
LOOK WHO IS CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!" are u sure he quotes the Belzer Ruv? where?
YES I'M SURE find the resha"b 'mectuvim' available in print
Anon "You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel? – NO, BUT FROM ISHE MEIR (with his money & influence) YES!" your answers are a work of a genius, and a simpleton like me can not beat your intelligence, so why try. Just your last answer, Does the office of 82 Lee ave. or the KJ office of Natrunua, have some physical proof that Reb Itche Mier gave money to Reb shulem Fogel? Was it a check or cash?If a check do you have the bank document or some video for the illegal transaction.Did Reb Shulem at least come in the dream to Gelbman or to the former Belzer Chosid tuned Kanoi, Reb Liebish Liezer of Peshevorsk, Did Reb Sholem live in a nicer house after the signature? What a ferd you are and all your brothers.
Anon "I would add he was a 'kanoi' an organizer for neturi karta and a ben bayis by SR RJT z"l (that might have been a negetive by some bobover's)" sorry to spoil your party, But to call Reb naftuli a Kanoi is ludicrous, He participated many times at aguda dinners and chabad events, which his father never went, He had tolerance for Aguda as for Naturai Karta, he was blessed with tolerance that is a rarity in our day and age.
r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel. rabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war. (see chtar hakodes, square, last week)
so dont tell me the belz rav was not a manhig hador, and by the way his streimel was same of above picture.
Anon writes: "and a simpleton like me can not beat your intelligence" "What a ferd you are and all your brothers."
These two sentences in the same paragraph are contradicting, unless you being sarcastic (which is a sort of hidden anger) than it does make sense, it is understandable why you should be angry after what happened to your glories chasidus of belz! RABBOM DOKRI!
Correct Since you live in a democracy you have all your rights to be Kofer in Emunas Chachomim... Did the biblical story of Moshe holding his hands to stop the Amalakites ever happen...
Anon I am still a simpleton and a simpleton can have contradictions, too foolish to chap what your keen mind grasps in a split second, But one think you should know, I am no Belzer Chosid
Anon "your glories chasidus of belz! RABBOM DOKRI!" is it the Rabom from before the meeting with Itche Mier? or after the Meeting with Itch Mier and the secret funds, since then it was a total different Rabom? does it give you a thrill when I call Harav Itche Mier, by the name Itche Mier?
“r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel. rabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war.”
Oh wow! tell that to the “IDF”
ps:as the saying goes, this and a token will get you on the subway
anon: "r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel. rabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war."
Being that they are all WWII survivors, where were they when we needed them, (just being sarcastic)
who was r` shlomo goldmad? or goldman is the correct spelling was he dealing with eichman like kastner did for hungary? and rabbi israel friedman is he dr. rabbi friedman of bar ilan university? those two worked together or seperatly?
brief summary. manhig hador: belzer rav (still debatable by sum) chuchem hador: aron mordchai, son of present belz rav (agrifas or jerusalem or world wide, also in debate by sum) moifes hador: reb naftuli halberstam, late bobov rebbi
intresting what a picture of a man signing his name with a streimel can bring to.
Anon " because it will go south as it did!" the Aguda went south? where are your facts for that? Do the aguda families have more boys or girls Off the derech, then families who are Satmar oriented?
anon 8:02, there are no "agudah famillies" anymore. no one in the world under 40 years of age affiliates with agudah at all anymore. agudah of u.s. did not die a natural death, it was murdered by the current crop of "lay leaders" running it.
the bobover rebbetzen freide understood only too well her husbands users and abusers family and chasidim alike .these oasnitzers knew that they were transparent and that she saw threw them like glass but they always played the game like they loved her husband as a shtikel dugma its very important to analyze the picture of yhe korchiner rebbe making hishtatchos on the ruv z"l matzeiva beyoime dehilula its that love that radiates out of rabbi ungar that mirrors ganz kehillas korchin to the ruv z"l
Especially in this month of Av, where so much suffering was brought upon us by sin'as chinom - why raise the machlokes of Bobov? For those who don't know, RMD is a major league talmid chochom, with incredible dveikus in Torah and mitzvos. Without a doubt, both in halacha and character, he is a true yoreish (heir) of his father-in-law, R' Nafulche ZT"L, and his grandfather-in-law, R' Shloimele ZT"L. If another family member wishes to don the mantle of Bobover Rebbe, who cares? But the mission to be oveir bizayon talmidei chachomim should not be ours, regardless of where you choose to daven or take a kvittel. I consider it beyond chutzpah to write the disgusting comment against RMD.
is that shlomo denver
ReplyDeleteof hornostieple?
AkA Rabbi chaim shlomo ben tzion meshulam zeesha twersky ZT'L
-Amshinover
the kaliver rebbe of williamsburg?
ReplyDeleteon the first look i thought it was the kaliver (i hope not) however I'm not sure and I'm not sure I want to know either, he seems oblivious to the chutzpah in the circumstances of the surroundings , so do you hirshel! for publishing it.
ReplyDeleteRibnitser?
ReplyDeleteI never went to lubavitch but someone told me that he seen the LR handover personnaly some kind of cake directly to womans hands.. I'm not sure its true,
ReplyDeleteThis picture maybe dotored with photoshop.. I also think the woman isn't married atleast because her hair isn't covered.. or she maybe related, if not b'zah than b'bu!
ReplyDeleteSkulener Rebbe in Romania
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete"the kaliver rebbe of williamsburg?
the Kalver is much taller and wider then the person on the photo
Must be rabbi Meshullom Zalman Schacter -Shalomi
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete"I never went to lubavitch but someone told me that he seen the LR handover personnaly some kind of cake directly to womans hands.. I'm not sure its true,"
yes he did give lekach(cake) and dollars in womens hand
that is Zalman Schachter former shliach of the fredika Rebbe N"A
ReplyDeleteat Shlomo's Chasuna
Is this maybe zalmen schachter - Shalmoni?
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting seeing the Toras Emes on the bima.
ReplyDeleteYAD LYAD LOI YENUKA: Kol Hamratza Muois Leyudo Shel Isha Loi Yinutzel Mdini Shel Gehoniim, ( Bavli Bruchois)
ReplyDeleteIt looks like he's signing on a Kesuba or such
ReplyDeleteYAD LYAD LOI YENUKA: Kol Hamratza Muois Leyudo Shel Isha Loi Yinutzel Mdini Shel Gehoniim, ( Bavli Bruchois)
ReplyDeleteWhoops!
Maybe you need new glasses, reb yid! you skipped the words "kedei lhistakel bah"
It looks to me like the Skulener Rebbe still in Romania
ReplyDeleteI don't think that color photography was popular in Romania in the 50's and 60's.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'm a little dull, but what's wrong with the picture?
ReplyDeleteMarlon Brando and Sacheen Littlefeather?
ReplyDeleteTolna-Harvard?
ReplyDeleteThe rakish tilt looks like Denver-Hornisteipel
ReplyDelete"I don't think that color photography was popular in Romania in the 50's and 60's."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Judging by the hairstyles of the assembled and the colorful frock of the "hippie chick" in the foreground I will say this dates 1969-1973 thereabouts. And this is definitely taking place in either the USA or western Europe, not in E"Y or behind the Iron Curtain.
Fed up
ReplyDeleteTolna Harvard had no Shtriemel,beard was better landscaped
tzig, when are you going to tell us the answer already? i'm plotzing to know!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the whole ruck - us? What's teh big deal about this picture?
ReplyDeleteI got it.
ReplyDeleteMystery solved
Davy Crockett and Pocahontas.
see http://holybeggars.ning.com/photo
ReplyDeleteReb Zalman signing
http://holybeggars.ning.com/photo/shlomo-and-neilas-wedding-1/next?context=featured
For a sec I thought is was the Kalover from Willy, but ,no.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, the pic is old, 30 years approx, and the the man has a white beard already,the Kalover is around 70 today.
Additionally, the Kalover would not be seen in these suroundings, typically.
THE clincher though, is the RING, ON THE RIGHT HAND,second finger from the pinky.I personally don't know any chasidishe ruv who wears a ring and certainly not the Kalover.
So maybe it is Zalman Schechter, who is a Galitzianer fin der heim, before he went to Chabad, and I know he likes bekitches.
Here is actually a pic of Zalman, with what appears to be a shtreimel http://www.naropa.edu/inauguration03/robprocession.html.
To me it does not look like the pic here is Zalman, but its difficult to see so it very well may be him, the background and the people, the ring etc make it a good fit
My guess is that it's the HOLY RIBNITSER REBBE still in Russia
ReplyDeleteTop 10 guesses
ReplyDeleteUdom HaRishon and Chava?
Richard Nixon and Pat?
Bonnie and Clyde?
Isiah Thomas and the woman he harassed?
Kurt Cobain and Amy Winehouse?
Abe and Mary Todd?
Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakely?
Tropper and ????
Wilbur Mills and the Argentinian?
Groucho and Margaret Dumont?
Definitely Zalman Shecter-Shalomi, probably at the 'House of Love and Prayer' in SF.
ReplyDeleteHe looks so much like Krausz, the tehillim reader from London. Anyone know who I mean? Big kanui.
ReplyDeleteTO SHUA:
I think it's just a bandaid.
Who is this rabbi zalmen guy anyway?
This is Reb Shloima Twerski z"l from denver. The tilted shtreimel, the hippies and the general matzav point toward him, not to mention the physical likeliness.
ReplyDeleteYou all must be bored.
ReplyDeleteAfter the answer is posted, more suggestions roll in... LOL
The Rebbe Reb Mailech said...
ReplyDeleteare you the "noam elimilech" himself? than burech mechaya hamasim, or a false one, like some of our false rebbes of today?
im going denver, r shloimele twerski
ReplyDeleteIf this is a wedding the ring is probably the kiddushin ring. Many mesader keddushin's will put the ring on theeir finger, to prevent the ring from getting lost...
ReplyDeleteall of you missed the most important aspect of this picture, and that is of the streimel, yes way back in in the glory days of belz these tiny village peasants walked on the holiest days of the wear with this type of hat. today belz changed that custom and changed the whole look of the original streimel, what a shame they were lighter on the head and much cheaper.
ReplyDeletein bobov our holy rebbi, would never changed. and no, a spudik or kulpik as not in plan.
BOBOV CHUSID said... --
ReplyDeleteOh wow what a yeridah from light streimel to heavy ones and spudiks or kulpiks.. who knows what comes next.. atleast the gartels are the same i hope, in a dor yusim like ours people should even notice this kind of changes that happened or didn't.. and what differnce does it make either way is amazing
BOBOV CHUSID said... --
ReplyDeleteOh wow what a yeridah from light streimel to heavy ones and spudiks or kulpiks.. who knows what comes next.. atleast the gartels are the same i hope, in a dor yusim like ours people should even notice this kind of changes that happened or didn't.. and what differnce does it make either way is amazing
keep them coming!
ReplyDeletethe best thing is when the woman signs the kesuvah as well. THOSE where the days.
ReplyDeleteWhy does she look so frightened? Perhaps she was afraid that the shvontz is still alive.
ReplyDeletei think the man in the back with the long hair is charles manson
ReplyDeleteMaybe there jews for J. The guy in the back with the long hair and beard looks like the xtian pictures of yeske.
ReplyDeleteIts the rebbe reb Hershel Tzigenberg shilta in his younger years.
ReplyDeleteZalman Schachter is a well known Koifer and Min. He used to be frum, Lubavitch actualy, a shliach actualy. A true shliach...we'll leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteLook him up on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalman_Schachter.
I agree, thought it was the cast of JC Superstar.
ReplyDeletebobov did change? whom you kidding? just take a look at pictures of your holy rebbi in the 50s and 60s and so from his fathers streimel. you went off the cliff with those remarks due to bobov did change with the headgear, he dumpted the kulpik his father wore, he wore a flat hungarien hat, the woman oh please don`t get me there how his seconed rebbetzin and the ripple affect from there on, his mother was mad but i guess helpless at the same time.
ReplyDeleteTruth
ReplyDeleteHis mother was wearing a Shpitzel?
I believe that the 48th rebbe will probably change 1 day to a flat hat, if Vaksmans daughter will allow him. He is very in to this nonsense.
ReplyDeletebobov,
ReplyDeletewelcome back from your vacation, how were those swampy muddy roads...?
Only problem is the Twersky brothers wear Strokes...even back in the 50s and 60s before most of the current Strokes club....
ReplyDeleteRegarding the second Bobover Rebbetzin....any honest person says she was great at organising the Women's auxiliary but none of her children are anything special...none could make Rebbishe shiduchim (unless you count Mesislish of Sorvosh) and none have many any mark on the chassidish scene until R' Benzion made himself head clown at 48th street.....sad but true....
Many insiders know but will never tell of the agmas nefesh R' Benzion caused his father in the early 70's and how the second Rebbetzin would not back him on so many inyanim....if a wife and children will not listed to a Rebbe...what can you demand of the chassidim....
She is a large part responsible for the shvach keit in Bobov which is so entrenched, Bobov will never be taken seriously as a 'top' chasidus in terms of anything but numbers.....
Criticise Belz all you want ...look what he has built (in terms of Yingerleit and Rabbunim, not buildings)....
The guy in the back with the long hair and beard looks like the xtian pictures of yeske
ReplyDeleteyou called? :)
reb shlomo of bobov his mother wore a shpitzel, so did he first rebbetzin (mother of future bobov rebbi reb naftuleh), reb shlomo seconed rebbetzin wore a sheitel going against the very psak of the sanz`er rav who they glorify so much, its like pick and choose.
ReplyDeletethe sanz rav was good in bobov only for stories, but when it came to learning or dress code they did just the opposite. reb shlomo had no say say on his second rebbitzin therefor inpacted on the upbrining of his children.
reb ben zion of bobov 48, takunes on girl speaking only yiddish did not fly, because it was just another of his prep talk.
the twersky colledge students, wear strokis no white socks on shabbos, but yet... forget let me stop here...
Nuch 120, the shtreimel fur will be flying in Belz.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly are "strokes"
ReplyDeleteA striped bekitsheh?
Please help, with info
as someone already pointed out, the picture is from a tenoyim in 1975 at the house of love and prayer in SF...the caption from the puc states "Reb zalmen signing"
ReplyDeletehere are the pics
http://holybeggars.ning.com/photo/563044:Photo:862?context=user
http://holybeggars.ning.com/photo/563044:Photo:861?context=user
1975 Tenoyim of David Hertzberg & Alifah Saadia
ReplyDeletehttp://holybeggars.ning.com/photo/563044:Photo:861?context=user
Nice Magen David necklace there Shlomo!
More here:
http://holybeggars.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=rivkalibby
אוי ווי מיין וועלט
Bobev:
ReplyDelete“Criticise Belz all you want ...look what he has built (in terms of Yingerleit and Rabbunim, not buildings)....”
Belz managed to change over from being the craddle of ‘chasidus and kanois’ to become this gentrified modern ‘all dressed up and nowhere to go’ so called chasidus of today, with haskofos anchored in haskalah trying to project itself on others with the protection of the zionist machine behind it… , which resulted in the signing of a ‘kol koreh’ from over 70 great rabbunim included rav weiss z”l of the eideh! The hishoner himself the belzer rebbe has a din of an appikoras! Wow look what that ‘ra-beh’ using the belz brand had accomlished!
Anon
ReplyDelete"Regarding the second Bobover Rebbetzin....any honest person says she was great at organising the Women's auxiliary but none of her children are anything special...none could make Rebbishe shiduchim"
I am no bobover chusid, but your ripping in to bobov is a unfair assessment.He took SIL all great talmidie chachomim, and they all are fathers of nice chasidic families.The Klausenburger also took SIL geonim betorah, each is a diamond for himself, it was a smart move for both of them.
Anon
ReplyDelete"Belz managed to change over from being the craddle of ‘chasidus and kanois’ to become this gentrified modern ‘all dressed up and nowhere to go’ so called chasidus of today, with haskofos anchored in haskalah trying to project itself on others with the protection of the zionist machine behind it… , which resulted in the signing of a ‘kol koreh’ from over 70 great rabbunim included rav weiss z”l of the eideh! The hishoner himself the belzer rebbe has a din of an appikoras! Wow look what that ‘ra-beh’ using the belz brand had accomlished!"
the holy Reb Arele Belzer saw that no kanues in israel will save or built true yiddishkiet in the new country,so he stripped belz from the idol worshiping of Kanuas that gets u no where.
I am no chusid of the Belzer rebbe of agrifas,but he had to follow the path of his holy uncle on the hanhoga and he was matzliach as did all the gedolim in that era.
This kol koreh against the Belzer backfired on the Signators, how foolish they were all to fold to the terror of satmar of those days.
it is as much worth as the
Issur on the Eruv in Willi
Issur on the Blatt
Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois
Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe
Issur on the Arizona wheat
Issur on KJ chicken
No movement politicized torah to the extent of satmar, The kuntriesim from both sides are amazingly megaleh ponem Btorah on a big scale.
anon: "the holy Reb Arele Belzer saw that no kanues in israel will save or built true yiddishkiet in the new country"
ReplyDeleteEIN KEITZ L'DIVREI SHEKER! tipical belzer new age 'haskalah' mixing up 'lokshen with bundlec' lies and innuendoes even on their own! da ma shtishev l'apikores.. (as hirshel would say) KISH MIR IN TUCHES.
"The kuntriesim from both sides are amazingly megaleh ponem Btorah on a big scale."
ReplyDeletecan you get me 70 rabunim tzadigim! singing that they are apirkorsim.
anon: "the holy Reb Arele Belzer saw that no kanues in israel will save or built true yiddishkiet in the new country"
ReplyDeletewas Reb Arele c"v from the Yevunim or from the Misyavnim!
Issur on the Eruv in Willi (so did reb moshe feinstein)
ReplyDeleteIssur on the Blatt (did you ever hear of bitul torah)
Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois (small tow europa did the same thing,)
Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe (divrei yoel among others)
Issur on the Arizona wheat (ein chodesh tachas hashmesh, zeh bkoh v’zeh b’koh)
Issur on KJ chicken (shcita cutz! Was an issur in europe to)
Is there a new torah written by reb arele,(or, the current kapo of belz) or a falsified one atleast like the one from kuk! that one can see their responses and shitas to accept or argue with like satmar and lubavitch has, or do you expect jews to accept the new 'toras belz' feeded to us as they see fit depending on the agenda of the day!
ReplyDeleteSR z"l said ones he should of gone out against the 'new belz' more forceful than sanz went after sadigere! (even that he did exactly that in his v'yoel m'oshe, but not in a personal manner) i heard that as a kid but now it start falling in place!!!
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing to read in the belz publications that reb arele z"l met itshe meir on 'yecudis' for over an hour before he blessed the sinai war! but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts) the SR z"l lowered and begged for a 'yecidus' meeting with the ruv (trying to explain to him he should stay out of this controversy) he was declined!!! The answer on both is ITSHE MEIR! & SRUEL FOGEL the pioneers of the NEW BELZ!
ReplyDelete"The answer on both is ITSHE MEIR! & SRUEL FOGEL the pioneers of the NEW BELZ!"
ReplyDeleteyou mean 'shulem fogel' i guess
"I am no chusid of the Belzer rebbe of agrifas"
ReplyDeleteintresting how you list all petty maclokis of 'satmar' but you know nothing of the 'belzer maclokis' how he came to power by all treif means! and rodifed everyone and everybody from the edeh! to macnifkah-belz to their OWN OLD BELZER CHASIDIM just to stay in power even today!
“but he had to follow the path of his holy uncle on the hanhoga”
ReplyDeletewill the new ‘yenikele’ of belz also follow the ‘new belz’ or can he start a revised ‘new belz’ line.. since he was conceived by alternate methods so he can start a new lineage… with a new ‘belzer teniah’…
Since I have litle intimate shaychis with Chagas Chassidim, perhaps the chachuve readers can help me. Years ago I was told that when Reb Zalman became interested in Bobov he made himself a shtreimel in Manitoba but the Chassidm in Brooklyn told him that the shventz went the wrong direction. I know nothing of shtreimlech , whats the wrong direction ?
ReplyDelete"whats the wrong direction ?"
ReplyDeletea 'shventz bleibed shventz'
Anon
ReplyDelete"Is there a new torah written by reb arele,(or, the current kapo of belz) or a falsified one atleast like the one from kuk! that one can see their responses and shitas to accept or argue with like satmar and lubavitch has, or do you expect jews to accept the new 'toras belz' feeded to us as they see fit depending on the agenda of the day!"
My friend throwing names Kapo, Kuk, does not talk to nobody, its good for the walls of the toilets of the Charadiem Shul in KJ,
For the record, the only that wrote a New Torah on the modern state of Israel is RJT of KJ, he elevated a midrash in Shir Hashirim in to higher then the 13 principles, with all the Titelbaum twists and Pilpulim.
Anon
ReplyDelete"It is amazing to read in the belz publications that reb arele z"l met itshe meir on 'yecudis' for over an hour before he blessed the sinai war! but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts) the SR z"l lowered and begged for a 'yecidus' meeting with the ruv (trying to explain to him he should stay out of this controversy) he was declined!!! The answer on both is ITSHE MEIR! & SRUEL FOGEL the pioneers of the NEW BELZ!"
Why dont you give for Hagoan Hachosid Reb Yitzchok Mier atleast the title Reb?
You really think that he was less in Torah or Yiras Shomaim then Reb Nusen Yosef Miezels, Shoproner Ruv Or Reb Avrum Lietner, he was as big a lamdan and yiras shomaim and for sure Bnon Shel Kedoshim as them.I don't blame you, a kid that was brought up in this powerful hate culture.
Anon
ReplyDelete" but when the giant and manhig hador (by most accounts)"
how exactly are you the Manhig Hador when the majority of charadie judaism and majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite of your Shita?
Anon
ReplyDelete" but you know nothing of the 'belzer maclokis' how he came to power by all treif means! and rodifed everyone and everybody"
lets not open a can of worms, and start counting all his machlokas in all the villages in Unterland of Rebinie haKodash
Anon
ReplyDelete"Issur on the Eruv in Willi (so did reb moshe feinstein)
Issur on the Blatt (did you ever hear of bitul torah)
Issur on Bnie Yoel mosdois (small tow europa did the same thing,)
Issur on the Weddings in Larkin Road Monroe (divrei yoel among others)
Issur on the Arizona wheat (ein chodesh tachas hashmesh, zeh bkoh v’zeh b’koh)
Issur on KJ chicken (shcita cutz! Was an issur in europe to)"
Your answer is gevaldig
"
Anon writes:
ReplyDelete“throwing names Kapo, Kuk, does not talk to nobody, its good for the walls of the toilets..” “he elevevated a midrash in shir hashirim” “the only that wrote a New Torah on the modern state of Israel is RJT of KJ”
It seems to me your’re putting more time in the toilets than in beis hamedrish,
The 3 oats is a beferesha gemurah ‘kesibus 111:’ (by the way is there anything wrong if it’s a midrash?)
Thanks for attributing the “torah” to SR z”l because this shita based in ‘halacha’ was the shita of “most” gedolim before WWII foremost the belzer rav z”l RYD, as mentioned in the letters of the mersh”ab
I’m sure it’s a coincedence that you mention the belzer kapo in one sentence with kuk they have many similarities to be compared to, although kuk was a ‘talmid cuchim’ and the belzer is not.
This photo is of Zalman shachter shalomi.Taken in the house of love and prayer in 1975.At a tenoyim..
ReplyDeleteHow this picture,got the discussion to belz is interesting..What is interesting to note,zalman says on a tape somewhere that himself and shlomo carlebach where the first shluchim in america that were sent still by the frieyediger rebbe.The rebbe told them to go to universities..
So...
ReplyDeleteI had a hunch with the ruvs ring.
It is a ring after all.
Tzig, whu are you allowing nonsensical comments Belz vs Bobov on this thread?
Anon writes:
ReplyDelete“Why don’t you give for Hagoan Hachosid Reb Yitzchok Mier atleast the title Reb?”
He signed his name ‘l’charpa il’druin olam’ on the ‘megilas atzmuis’, he twisted and turned the ‘shitas hakadmunim’ to bribe and twist the gedolim of his time to agree and consent on ‘something they had no clue on’ mildly said..
He was a member in the keneset haminim, and no other the their PM golda meir eulogized him in the keneset best by saying: “He single handedly bought over the most anti-zionist group agudath israel to become a fieriest zionist organization”
anon writes:“how exactly are you the Manhig Hador when the majority of charadie judaism and majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite of your Shita?”
ReplyDeleteYour qustion is your answer like moshe rebini said: “yifkot hashem eloki haricus!”
A manhig who can go against the siprit of all!, By the way unfortunately most jews don’t keep shabos does that change anything? And how come as you say the “majority of Gedolim in his generation are doing exactly the opposite..” but he the SR z”l is known most, quoted most, influenced in hundreds of ways klal yisruel in positive ways and his every word verbally and in writing is being discussed most although he died 30 years ago! The anwer is in the gemorah nedurim 32: on the pusik of keheles 9: when the yatzer hara is present ‘no one mentions the the yetzer tov!
Anon
ReplyDelete"when the yatzer hara is present ‘no one mentions the the yetzer tov!"
bottom line the Satmar Ruv is the Yetzer tov and all gedolim that survived the war were the Yetzer Hora, and he is the Manhig Hador
I would laugh for the next hour if it would not be the nine days
Anon
ReplyDelete"He signed his name ‘l’charpa il’druin olam’ on the ‘megilas atzmuis’, he twisted and turned the ‘shitas hakadmunim’ to bribe and twist the gedolim of his time to agree and consent on ‘something they had no clue on’ mildly said.."
what is your proof that he twisted the Gedolim to his views?
did Gelbman tell you that? or Ezriel Gluck?
Can I say that Sender Deutch or Shulem Laufer twisted the Sakmer Ruv?
Or Sakmer Ruv was the smartest godul that survived the war?
Anon
ReplyDelete"It seems to me your’re putting more time in the toilets than in beis hamedrish,"
isn"t it the sakmar think to do in the morning?
3 hours Hachonas and 1 hour Davening?
All of the arguments on this thread and countless other ones in the past are the result of a lifetime of indoctrination from nursery to Kollel. You learn in Satmer then the SR is the one and only; you learn in Lubavitch
ReplyDeletethen the Rebbe is the greatest.The same goes for Belz,Ger,and others.No one cares about the truth,it's just" my Rebbe is bigger and holier and smarter than your Rebbe."Does anyone have the courage to stand on their own two feet[metaphorically] and do some independent thinking about Zionism,secular studies i.e.non-Torah forms of knowledge like science and history,and what it means to be a Jew in the year 5771? Just a thought.With all due respect it is in the best interest of the Rebbes and their various "retainers" to keep the oilem ignorant and childlike.If a mind is a terrible thing to waste then why doesn't someone try using it?
Anon
ReplyDelete"foremost the belzer rav z”l RYD, as mentioned in the letters of the mersh”ab"
does the Reshab quote the Belzer RUV?
Anon
ReplyDelete"gedolim before WWII foremost the belzer rav z”l RYD"
you have a letter from the RYD mentioning the Gimel Shvouth?
i"m sorry to be rude bur ren aron of belz was no manhig "hador", maybe a tzadik, but definitly not a manhig, not before and not after the war. fact.
ReplyDeletebelz rebbi of jerusalem started to wear a spodik on most weekdays. cant wair for aron mordchai the chuchem hador to don one.
ReplyDeleteWyatt said... VY Gevalt!
ReplyDeleteso what you saying we all rely on our rebbes and you rely on yourself! so what is 'urself' saying some inside please? is it 'mebusri eczah eloki'? or is it 'kshani liatzmi ma ani' ? or waht?
anon writes: "lets not open a can of worms"
ReplyDeletesorry I don't eat canned food, only fresh with healty ingredients anything to offer?
Wyatt
ReplyDelete"With all due respect it is in the best interest of the Rebbes and their various "retainers" to keep the oilem ignorant and childlike.If a mind is a terrible thing to waste then why doesn't someone try using it?"
with all due respect to the person who is above and beyond all this juvenile bickering
It is in the interest of the Gedolie Yisroel from the era of the Rashba to keep the masses of Klal Yisroel in the blind of all upcoming modernities. There were always some yechidai segula that were exposed and stayed frum.
The only group today that opened it self to the secular world is the MO/YU community, there success is noting to write home about
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Shalomi started the Lubavitcher day school in NH and then moved on to Mass. From there he went to Canada.
ReplyDeleteAlong the way he used his mind and saw that other religions seek divinity as well. He got interested in other religions. And then he got invovled in the counter culture.
Zalman is a very powerful teacher and "rebbe".
Indeed he left the narrow path of Orthodoxy almost in a aveirah lishmah manner to bring hundreds if not more back to a jewish identity.Shlomo acted in the ame manner.
Its sad that he left , sadder that orthodoxy could not find a place for him and even sadder as to how he has ended up.
If these 2 gents were the first shluchim , they have indeed probably attracted more people to Orthodoxy than all other shluchim combined since then.
Reb Shlomo Twerski also went on his own path which also left him in pieces shattered , but he too could no longer navigate the narrow path of our rigid middle class conformist materialistic orthodoxy. he was much different than zalman but thats the name of the game people are different . But in the Orthodoxy we have created since 1945 all are expected to be the same cookie cutter pieces.
Itche Meir's great-granddaughter just revealed herself.
ReplyDeleteschneur said..."almost in a aveirah lishmah manner"
ReplyDelete"since 1945 all are expected to be the same cookie cutter pieces"
So he downed a shtreimel with the shventz in the right or wrong direction?
Another Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Itche Meir's great-granddaughter just revealed herself"
more info please?
What is this nonsense attacking Rabbi Itche Mayer Levin .He was the Bendiner rav's son , the son in law of the Imre Emes and a chashuve Tore leader and activist.. He signed the Declaration OF Independence and I am certian "his rebbe" approved of this. You think he was minister of social welfare for 3 years without the approval of the MGH ? without the approval of the Bais Israel ?Instaed of attcking him why not go for the goal _ attack the Gerer rebbe's.
ReplyDeleteWhat really bothers the kanoim in Jslm is thta he took the organizational control of the Aguda in Israel from the yishuv hayashen
Mike Powers said...
ReplyDelete"He signed the Declaration OF Independence and I am certian "his rebbe" approved of this."
arveh, arveh zurich!
(torah lo bashumayim!)
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"you have a letter from the RYD mentioning the Gimel Shvouth?"
No, but he signed off on the gemara
kesibus daf 111: so I'll accept that as a yes, and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!
Just a note, poor kaliver rebbe from willi he got badgered earlier here.. and doesnt even know it! shhh what one doesnt know dont hurt right?
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete"No, but he signed off on the gemara
kesibus daf 111: so I'll accept that as a yes"
how does it work?
he Signed on the Gemara?
Anon
ReplyDelete"and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!"
are u sure he quotes the Belzer Ruv?
where?
Anon
ReplyDelete"i"m sorry to be rude bur ren aron of belz was no manhig "hador", maybe a tzadik, but definitly not a manhig, not before and not after the war. fact."
why was he not a manhig hador?
because he was not a chevra man?
Can you get me a poor decision that he did?
You think he had to consult with the Voidislover Ruv on his decisions?
Wasnt his decision of signing the Chov Kodesh of participating in the general elections the right move? the intelligent and responsible way to build Klal Yisroel in the new country?
Did not these gedolim built up the biggest network of Torah and Kedusha since Churban Habais?
Were you ever in a holy town of Bietar, Kiryath Sefer?
Dont you think that the person that opposed Chinuch Atzmai was a irresponsible Manhig Yisroel?
You think that the Belzer Ruv was not holy enough to know if the Miracles of the Sinai War is from the sitra dekedusha or Sitra Achra?
You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel?
As they like to teach in hate infested Satmar Cheders.
You are not Rude you are just a ignorant idiot.
anon 10:57, two requests from the general populace:
ReplyDelete1. Refer to rabbomin who you sure as h*** won't ever reach in torah and yiras shamayim with a 'Rov,' even though he doesn't have the same hashkafos as you
2. speak in your native language so, lch"p, some of us understand you
Schneur: In the new agenda driven book "the rebbe"he writes about the rebbe mm shaychis with zalman..I wonder what zalmans opinions were even before he left to be mikarev.What is known-that even shlomo held zalman went to way to far..even though shlomo himself was ostracized from chabad.
ReplyDeleteZalman still holds himself a talmud of the rebbe(whatever that means).. Although they agreed the black and white way of life is not for them.They seemingly struggled with a concrete path they wanted there disciples to follow.With shlomo staying closer to main stream,zalman completely leaving orthodoxy behind.
The Skulener and Ribnitzet were bashmutzed.
ReplyDeleteI besmirched
Hornisteipel-Denver
Tolna-Harvard
Marlon Brando
Sachsen Littlefeather
Davy Crockett
Pocahontas
The most important item on the agenda :
ReplyDeleteWhat are 'shtroikes' ?!
Anyone have a description or a picture ?
And are 'poroichsel's' the same thing as chassidishe vests ? Or something else ? Do people wear both ?
Which chassidus or Rebbes wear them ?
fed up in peoria,
ReplyDeletewho ever you are, did you ever play "guess who"? if yes i"m sure you always lost. you are such a bad guess-er.go on youtube for video of the hornsteipel rebbi his havdalah or mitzva tantz and let me know is he a rebbi or big time acter.
i cannot understand where a simple question of r` hirshel tzig turned into that r` aron of belz was or was not a manhig, but i"ll just add this, that he was not his father in hanhuga, for sure.
regarding bobov till this day i dont understand hor r` naftuli of bobov fitted into that family, he was such a nice good and tzaddik of a yid, a down to earth person, and to be surrounded by such clowns arounds is big mystery to me.
The wooden necklace clearly visible through the opening of the bekishe, solves the mystery.
ReplyDeleteThis is a hippie (member of House of Love and Prayer) dressed up as a rabbi.
Magid Shiur -whoever you are - who's anybody here?
ReplyDeleteAre there videos of Hornisteipel-Denver on youtube? Denver not Milwaukee.
Milwaukee WI 222 miles from Peoria IL
Denver CO 914 miles from Peoria IL
magid shiur said...
ReplyDelete"r` naftuli of bobov fitted into that family, he was such a nice good and tzaddik of a yid"
I would add he was a 'kanoi' an organizer for neturi karta and a ben bayis by SR RJT z"l (that might have been a negetive by some bobover's)
yoske said...
ReplyDelete"anon 10:57, two requests from the general populace:"
mazel tov yoske in his first posting of the day declared him self as 'spokesman' for the 'general populace' mazel tov!
Anonymous said... Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:43:00 PM
ReplyDeletewhy was he not a manhig hador? – GOOD QUESTION, IDK
because he was not a chevra man? – HIS GABOIM SURELY WHERE
Can you get me a poor decision that he did? – BESIDES THE ‘COV KUDISH’ ?
You think he had to consult with the Voidislover Ruv on his decisions? – IT WOULD OF HELP
Wasnt his decision of signing the Chov Kodesh of participating in the general elections the right move? HELL NO!
Did not these gedolim built up the biggest network of Torah and Kedusha since Churban Habais? Were you ever in a holy town of Bietar, Kiryath Sefer? – WITH 90% ISRAELIS DESECRATING SHABOS, HOW ABSURD!
dont you think that the person that opposed Chinuch Atzmai was a irresponsible Manhig?- OF COURSE NOT
You think that the Belzer Ruv was not holy enough to know if the Miracles of the Sinai War is from the sitra dekedusha or Sitra Achra? – BEFORE HE SPOKE TO ITSHE MEIR or AFTER ?
You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel? – NO, BUT FROM ISHE MEIR (with his money & influence) YES!
As they like to teach in hate infested Satmar Cheders. You are not Rude you are just a ignorant idiot.
LOOK WHO IS CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anon
ReplyDelete"does the Reshab quote the Belzer RUV?"
YES HE DOES, in the 'mectuvim' which was printed while the mersha"b was still alive
"and the mersha"b z"l mentions him in 'his letter' that he is totally against making of an 'agudah'! because it will go south as it did!"
ReplyDeleteare u sure he quotes the Belzer Ruv?
where?
YES I'M SURE find the resha"b 'mectuvim' available in print
Anon
ReplyDelete"You realy believe that Reb Shulem Fogel a chasidic yoshev and Chanyok from the old Belz school, was deep down a admirer of Herzel? – NO, BUT FROM ISHE MEIR (with his money & influence) YES!"
your answers are a work of a genius, and a simpleton like me can not beat your intelligence, so why try.
Just your last answer,
Does the office of 82 Lee ave. or the KJ office of Natrunua, have some physical proof that Reb Itche Mier gave money to Reb shulem Fogel?
Was it a check or cash?If a check do you have the bank document or some video for the illegal transaction.Did Reb Shulem at least come in the dream to Gelbman or to the former Belzer Chosid tuned Kanoi, Reb Liebish Liezer of Peshevorsk,
Did Reb Sholem live in a nicer house after the signature?
What a ferd you are and all your brothers.
Anon
ReplyDelete"I would add he was a 'kanoi' an organizer for neturi karta and a ben bayis by SR RJT z"l (that might have been a negetive by some bobover's)"
sorry to spoil your party,
But to call Reb naftuli a Kanoi is ludicrous,
He participated many times at aguda dinners and chabad events, which his father never went,
He had tolerance for Aguda as for Naturai Karta, he was blessed with tolerance that is a rarity in our day and age.
r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel.
ReplyDeleterabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war
rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war.
(see chtar hakodes, square, last week)
so dont tell me the belz rav was not a manhig hador, and by the way his streimel was same of above picture.
Anon writes:
ReplyDelete"and a simpleton like me can not beat your intelligence" "What a ferd you are and all your brothers."
These two sentences in the same paragraph are contradicting, unless you being sarcastic (which is a sort of hidden anger) than it does make sense, it is understandable why you should be angry after what happened to your glories chasidus of belz! RABBOM DOKRI!
Correct
ReplyDeleteSince you live in a democracy you have all your rights to be Kofer in Emunas Chachomim...
Did the biblical story of Moshe holding his hands to stop the Amalakites ever happen...
Anon
ReplyDeleteI am still a simpleton and a simpleton can have contradictions, too foolish to chap what your keen mind grasps in a split second,
But one think you should know, I am no Belzer Chosid
"Did the biblical story of Moshe holding his hands to stop the Amalakites ever happen..."
ReplyDeleteYes indeed, but where you there I am not so sure of.
Anon
ReplyDelete"your glories chasidus of belz! RABBOM DOKRI!"
is it the Rabom from before the meeting with Itche Mier? or after the Meeting with Itch Mier and the secret funds, since then it was a total different Rabom?
does it give you a thrill when I call Harav Itche Mier, by the name Itche Mier?
“r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel.
ReplyDeleterabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war
rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war.”
Oh wow! tell that to the “IDF”
ps:as the saying goes, this and a token will get you on the subway
anon: "does it give you a thrill when I call Harav Itche Mier, by the name Itche Mier?"
ReplyDeletewhat's in a name.
anon: "r` shlomo goldmad (and rabbi israel friedman) kept back the nazi invasion to eretz yisroel.
ReplyDeleterabbi aron rokeach kept back the arabs at the sinai war
rabbi yakkov yosef twersky kept back the arabs durin the six day war."
Being that they are all WWII survivors, where were they when we needed them, (just being sarcastic)
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Did the biblical story of Moshe holding his hands to stop the Amalakites ever happen..."
Wasn't a miracle, check out the mishna
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Did the biblical story of Moshe holding his hands to stop the Amalakites ever happen..."
wasn't a miracle, see the mishna
Reb Naftuli was a nice man, he was not Rebbe material even though they pumped him up to Moiphes Hador.
ReplyDeletewho was r` shlomo goldmad? or goldman is the correct spelling
ReplyDeletewas he dealing with eichman like kastner did for hungary?
and rabbi israel friedman is he dr. rabbi friedman of bar ilan university? those two worked together or seperatly?
brief summary.
ReplyDeletemanhig hador: belzer rav (still debatable by sum)
chuchem hador: aron mordchai, son of present belz rav (agrifas or jerusalem or world wide, also in debate by sum)
moifes hador: reb naftuli halberstam, late bobov rebbi
intresting what a picture of a man signing his name with a streimel can bring to.
thank you! we should know only simchas! iy"h by you!
ReplyDeleteWiznitza
ReplyDeleteAderaba
gives a short synopsis of the Rebbe material
synopsis of rebbe material
ReplyDeleteleader or entertainer
Anon
ReplyDelete" because it will go south as it did!"
the Aguda went south?
where are your facts for that?
Do the aguda families have more boys or girls Off the derech, then families who are Satmar oriented?
"where are your facts for that?"
ReplyDeleteGo eat you culent..
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteAre you going to ever tell us??? The suspense is killing me...
How are the sleeples nights going?
Regards,
Chaim
anon 8:02,
ReplyDeletethere are no "agudah famillies" anymore. no one in the world under 40 years of age affiliates with agudah at all anymore. agudah of u.s. did not die a natural death, it was murdered by the current crop of "lay leaders" running it.
talmud bavli,
ReplyDeletehe signed his name with a pen.
the streimel was used for only hat-wearing purposes
the bobover rebbetzen freide understood only too well her husbands users and abusers family and chasidim alike .these oasnitzers knew that they were transparent and that she saw threw them like glass but they always played the game like they loved her husband as a shtikel dugma its very important to analyze the picture of yhe korchiner rebbe making hishtatchos on the ruv z"l matzeiva beyoime dehilula its that love that radiates out of rabbi ungar that mirrors ganz kehillas korchin to the ruv z"l
ReplyDeleteKorchin
ReplyDelete"ganz kehillas korchin to the ruv z"
can you plz enlighten the crowd, what korchin stands for?
is that a food?
is that s certain animal?
Korchin,
ReplyDeleteYou are not ashamed to bring Freida in to the picture???Should i just start????What she did to her husbund's only surviving son???
What about you BZ?WHO IS HE???A Gudol b'toire?A holy man since his childhood?
keeping quiet will be better.I was very "araingehalten" on this post.Next one will be worse.
It is Zalman Shechter-Shalomi.
ReplyDeleteRabosai:
ReplyDeleteEspecially in this month of Av, where so much suffering was brought upon us by sin'as chinom - why raise the machlokes of Bobov? For those who don't know, RMD is a major league talmid chochom, with incredible dveikus in Torah and mitzvos. Without a doubt, both in halacha and character, he is a true yoreish (heir) of his father-in-law, R' Nafulche ZT"L, and his grandfather-in-law, R' Shloimele ZT"L. If another family member wishes to don the mantle of Bobover Rebbe, who cares? But the mission to be oveir bizayon talmidei chachomim should not be ours, regardless of where you choose to daven or take a kvittel. I consider it beyond chutzpah to write the disgusting comment against RMD.