Monday, July 2, 2012
when did this become normal in the Litvishe world?
(Lior Mizrahi/Getty Images)
I speak of this farkvetshtkeit, the show with the sack cloth, the funny - or weird - faces, almost like severe stomach pain. I don't think you see such expressions of the Litvishe Gedolim of yesteryear. I know that Chassidim like to have this picture of a Litvak in their minds, but I don't believe that's real. [Well, maybe real in the sense that there were SOME people like that - the town Porush, perhaps.] They're referring to American Yeshivishe guys who somehow picked this up from somewhere, but I don't think it was from the Litvaks. And come to think of it, it's not even farkvetshtkeit, it's more of a seriousness mixed with American temimus. Picture a Yid like Reb Berel Povarski, or Reb Baruch Mordche Ezrachi, do they seem farkvetsht to you? You always see them smiling. Reb Chaim Oyzer always seemed to have a smile on his face. OK, I'll grant you the Brisker Rov, and maybe Reb Elchonon too, but they seemed to be the exception to the rule. I would think that the average Litvishe Yiddel was happy, especially if he was a learned man - then he had a real geshmak in life! Today it seems like that in that world they think that in order to be an erlicher Yid you need to walk around as if your stomach is about to explode.
I'm not gonna pass judgement on this young fellow here. Maybe he's 100% earnest about the sackcloth. Maybe the fact that SOME bachurim who did make תורתם אומנתם will have to go work makes him cry out in pain. This is where this photo was taken, by the way. At the pre-dawn demonstration in Yerushalayim last week. Maybe he REALLY feels as if a dear loved one passed on, ח"ו. But I have my doubts... Something tells me he checked himself out in the mirror to make sure he has the look down pat. Meileh the אנשי ישוב הישן, I can see where that came from, although I don't think that it necessarily stems from their Litvishe background. It may be that Hungarian-Litvish hybrid that was created in Yerushalayim that caused the outcome which we see in the typical Yerushalmi. Although the very same conditions that created the sackcloth-wearing guy who yells at passing cars on Shabbos created the letz that laughs at everything that moves.... We may not know where it comes from and how it came about, but we've grown to know, and maybe even love it. But this guy with the kneitsh... מי ברא אלה?
Hirshel, he doesn't look all the way there. But I'm with you on the overall heintige yeshivishe velt <> Lita fun amol critique
ReplyDeletehttp://www.yctorah.org/content/view/784/17/
ReplyDeleteshame on artscroll
This post is Loshon Horah. Shame on you!
ReplyDeleteWhatever facial expressions someone has when davening is no business of anyone.
Judging his motivations isn't, either.
Oh how much more beautiful are the yerushalmi kiderlach with this kvetcher in their midst.
ReplyDeleteCome on. Think of the stories in the Frierdiker Rebbe's memoirs. There is a sort of personality that is given to schtick and it's certainly not restricted to Chassidim. In fact there was a time not so long ago when this sort of thing was foreign to Lubavitchers as well.
ReplyDeleteI come from the most Hungarian rabbonishe background imaginable the "smetana" maternal & paternal,a real "einekal". At 131/2 I left tgat world and went to a litvishe high school, all the lies and garbage I was fed from chasidim about litvaks unraveled so fast tgat it made me dizzy
ReplyDeleteIt turns out that instead of the cold calculated rebbes these roshei yeshiva were very warm ,caring and very very geshmake people.the old mirrers were the most pleasant to be around ובראשם רבי שמואל בירנבוים זצ״ל the old talmidim from Reb aahron kotler? Wow!
Amazing! the enjoyment of every second of life is amazing instead of crying by shabbos zemiros or screaming their brains out by KABOLAS SHABBOS
They just exude energy and life no eyeball rolling at a tish , just plain geshmake divrei Torah or plain talk.
Tge younger dor is just the same.
What's about something in honor of Yud Bais -Yud Gimmel Tammuz instead of this?
ReplyDelete"I left tgat world and went to a litvishe high school" "all the lies and garbage I was fed from chasidim about litvaks unraveled so fast tgat it made me dizzy.."
ReplyDeleteeasy come easy go! just GO!
Its not about me
DeleteI can come and go but what about all the kids in the system right now that are fed שקר ?
!אז עס טוט וויי שרייט מען
ReplyDeleteויפח באפיו נשמת חיים: מאן דנפח מתוכו נפח
ReplyDeleteמובא בזוהר: 'מאן דנפח מדילי הוא נפח' כלומר ד' שנפח באדם נשמה, משלו מתוכו הוא נפח וזו היא נשמתו
עיין בתניא
?גיוואלד! ארבּע כנפות אָהנַא ציצית
ReplyDeletetzig: "Maybe the fact that SOME bachurim who did make תורתם אומנתם will have to go work makes him cry out in pain"
ReplyDeleteYou're ignorant and a סתם מקטרג this protest has nothing to do with going to work! but all to do with גזירה הנוראה של גיוס בנים ואח"כ גיוס בנות! בעצת בלעם That's the main reason why cheridim in israel don't work! because of גיוס בנים וגיוס בנות which is THE END OF THE WORLD! And an outcry!!! is in order! if you still have a vain in you of course!
? מי ברא אלה? מי בּוראך
Sick of the lies said... ?!?!
ReplyDeleteDid you ever thought maybe "you're the lie!"
!איש בּער לא ידע וכסיל לא יבין
You're missing the point and you can't see the forest for the
ReplyDeletetrees, these little boys in the tousands got woken up by their 'parents' in the early morning לילך בּרחוצות ובּרחובות העיר לזעוק צעקה גדולה ומרה! נגד הציונים הרוצים לעקור את הכל it doesn't matter what the גזירה of the day is! what matters is their Indoctrination! they got in an early age and in a positive way Indoctrinated aginst these !עוכרי ישראלים
Sick of the Lies
ReplyDeleteI am very happy that you love your newfound home, but wait and see till you will get mixed in to a brawl between yeshiva liet.... in Ponevich , Grodna, Telz or Yated Neman. 1 side claims that they own the god given daas torah and the other one claims that they own the god given hanhogas hador..... You are a simple ignorant ferd,,,,,
Hirshel
ReplyDeletethe answer to the Mi Boru Eilah, is simple. The triefene medina. They give too much money for this Lidega Zek....
Sick of lies: "all the kids in the system right now that are fed שקר ?"
ReplyDeleteNever in גלות there where a mass חינוך system started by satmar and still spreads.. like we have now in america and elsewhere built on טהרות הקודש !
אל תגעי בּמשיחי!, אלו תינוקת של בית רבן
He is still young and doesn't know hot to react to his emotions and feelings. He will grow up to be a true Litvak, don't worry. I see this in Yeshivos every year on Yom Kippur.
ReplyDeleteBTW, the Brisker Rov and R' Elchonon were not farkvetsht. They were more serious than the average Litvak but they were not confused about their feelings and they did not have funny facial features during davening.
Did you see the fellow yawning in the background. Ashmores HaBoker.
ReplyDeleteI think part of it comes from Brisk, part of it from the hybrid you mentioned. Either way we are clearly not better for it.
ReplyDeleteOY MEH HAYA LANU!!!!!!!!! The chassidim have one the cultural war and thus we have a sea of black & white attending the Asifa of the Jedda Dayan etc... eating only glatt etc... but alas that is the world we live in.
ReplyDeletetibi lotzi: "Mi Boru Eilah, is simple. The triefene medina. They give too much money for this Lidega Zek.."
ReplyDeleteI'm glad your 'ZEK' is full of.. are you happy?
why do you think he's litvish? i can't tell what type of hat he's wearing, but he's clearly unshaved and haas big payos. either heimish or yerushalmi.
ReplyDeletehe's a Brisker, with a knaitsh and short jacket
ReplyDeleteWhen the so called Litvishe world became compoed mostly of Hungarains, Yekkes gevezener Gerer, Yerushalmis, Amerikaner yolden, BT's and a few real life Litvakes but very few.
ReplyDeleteEven more fantastical then the central character in the picture, is the nonplussed reaction of the bystanders.
ReplyDeleteIt is very telling, that the Yerushalmi children and teens, are exposed to all sorts of of individuals and nary an eyebrow is raised.
In America and elsewhere, you would find at least a few curious, cynical gawkers.
This is psychology 101, namely the 'Jerusalem Syndrome'.
( the phenomenon whereby a person who seems previously balanced and devoid of any signs of psychopathology becomes psychotic after arriving in Jerusalem, form of hysteria, mental phenomena involving the presence of either religiously themed obsessive ideas, delusions or other psychosis-like experiences, anxiety, agitation, nervousness and tension, intense religious psychosis etc.)
Look it up.
reb Hirsh: "This is psychology 101namely the 'Jerusalem Syndrome "
ReplyDeleteDid you ever hear of the American syndroms called:
- Birthers
- Tea Party
- 99% percenters
- American witchhunts
- American Puritan
etc. etc. phenomenons by perfectly balanced people otherwise! Reb Hirsh this is REAL! not a phenomenon or a syndrome!
אל תגעי בּמשיחי!, אלו תינוקת של בית רבן
The Litvishe have an inferiority complex for years they are all day trying to show the Chasidim we are also very Frimer Mentschen
ReplyDeleteus too! said...
ReplyDeleteThe Litvishe have an inferiority complex for years they are all day trying to show the Chasidim we are also very Frimer Mentschen
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I know many who actually are! the issue chasidim have with so called litvishe who come from chsidishe backgrounds! and converted to litvish light!
I'm a middle-aged Jew raised with no contact to Torah and fully ignorant until only a few years ago, now in process of searching for the truth, beginning to keep mitzvot, learning Hebrew with extreme difficulty - in summary, my Torah knowledge could be compared to a much less than a pre-bar mitzvah boy, however from the few things I've learned with the help of my Orthodox Sephardic Rav and many Internet lectures and reading hours, I can surely tell that this post and the various comments here are full of lashon harah and harsh judgement, and I cannot help but feeling ashamed of this demonstration of the lack of Unity between the Jews - more so those who call themselves religious. Quite a bad record for the 3 weeks...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this comment will be posted, but anyway - I feel compelled to share these humble thoughts with my "gelernter" brothers.
Shalom to all,
R. Halevy
Status: beginner level
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The sackcloth pic made the Mishpacha, Inyan etc etc. Lots of mileage.
ReplyDeleteClassic new look for Fall c"v