They say that הכל הולך אחר הסיום.... I'm sure we can make exceptions to the rule. If you try hard enough you can erase that from your memory. Eli Fink loved the event. I too was very inspired. I danced like at a friend's wedding. I learned that I don't suffer from ADD and can sit through 6 hours of anything without getting up from my seat. If you closed your eyes and banished all the evil and impure and אומפארגינעדיגע thoughts in your mind you could be inspired. Which is what I did. But to their credit the Agudah did keep the kudos to themselves to a very bare minimum! Will I begin to "do the daf?" Maybe. Maybe Rabbi Frand - who looked like he was rehearsing in the mirror - inspired me as well, even if he was a paid speaker. I suppose they could've done without the Novominsker and Reb Shmuel K - but I'm not in charge. Reb Shmuel looks to me a little lost.
The dancing was VERY nice.
A VERY strong message was sent to the zealots when they gave Rabbi Lau a VERY strong and loud round of applause. I think the fact that he (and Rabbi Frand) didn't get a "HaRav" next to his name says something, no? Why didn't he get it? Is he less Rov then a Rosh Yeshiva? But at the same time the fact that the Chassidisher Oylam was not well-represented on the dais shows us how in the Chassidishe Velt the kanoyim have won. Everybody wants to be on Satmar's good side, unless you're Ger, Belz or Klausenberg. No Skulener Rebbe, no Vizhnitzer Rebbe, no Skverrer Rebbe. די סקווערע רבי איז געווען וואו, פונקטליך? I'm sure they had prior commitments to attend to... No Pupa either. Imagine if they would. Pretty impressive to pull that crowd together without the aforementioned groups. Oh, and Lubavitch too. The Klausenebrger Rebbe said it well when he referenced the פסוק of מים רבים לא יוכלו לכבות את האהבה. It takes a Chassidisher Rebbe to think of that.
Welcoming the "5,000 Baalei Tshuvah" to the Siyum is sort of like welcoming 1,000 Blacks who came to the Republican National Convention. And I'm a Republican. If I was a BT I'd be downright insulted. Besides for the fact that it's probably not true. How would they know that? The same day that the חק טל expired in Israel... Yet the only one to mention it - just barely - was Reb Malkiel Kotler in his very aydele way. But Rechnitz mentioned the '36 Olympics.. Don't get me wrong, I liked Rechnitz, he was well-spoken and even humble, but I guess the AI doesn't mix into Israeli politics... I respect that. We're in galus after all....
And best of all - NO mention of Dirshu! THANK YOU!!!
א טרונק וואסער וואלט מען געקענט דערלאנגען..... People sat there for hours on end, they paid good money for their tickets, would it kill you to spend another $100k on water? maybe a bag of pretzels and a danish like they had in Citifield? Get some Chassidim in there doing the real organization of the event next time. I mean no disrespect to Reb Lazer Ginsberg, but it was just too much. Maybe he should've switched with the Mincha Baal Tefillah.
PLEASE CHECK BACK FOR UPDATES THROUGHOUT THE NEXT FEW DAYS...
the entire event stunk from money and kovod fressing.
ReplyDeletefour - count em - four ameratzim bought speaking or kovod spots: kleinman, rechnitz, shottenstein (who had a very hard time with the ivrah of the kaddish) and huberfeld (who surprised me at least with his heimishe havureh). Reb Lulek also only spoke because three of those four offered agudah a small fortune.
rabbi sheiner was probably coerced to speak the way he did. he is a world-class rosh yeshiva, yet he spoke like pesach krohn. seemed like he has a very low opinion of his audience and deemed the ma'amid only worthy of cliches.
Malkiel was the only American charedi speaker and i was hoping he would speak like a talmid chochom. instead, he also stuck to touchy-feely "we are familly" stuff. he also spoke partially in english (and the crowd actually clapped when he switched). if he was speaking as a rosh yeshiva that would have been really out of place. the explanation is that malkiel has decided that he is a "gadol" and needs to reach all his masses.
if you compare it to the asifa: there were more adult men in citifield than in metlife. there were much better speeches in citifield (effie and Rav Don were great. none of the siyum speeches were memorable at all). more people were paying attention in citifield (by the siyum almost everyone was shmuessing and waiting for the free concert) and most importantly, no one made money of off citifield while the entire metlife was all about money, money and more money.
You must have had a nitemare and can't remember anything else?
ReplyDeleteI'm working on a longer post now. I owe it to you guys.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sourpuss this Dovy is. Did he see the same event everyone else did? The only problem was that it was much too long, but it was very inspirational. As for R. Scheiner, he always speaks this way even to pure Lakewood audiences. R' Malkiel in his yiddish speech spoke very derhibene reid. Dovy must have been dozing by that part.
ReplyDeleteThis was the first siyum hashas I attended - mostly because I'm usually a cynic and see no reason for me to attend such events. But I went this time to bring my teen & preteen kids -- I thought that such a big mymad would make a good impression on them (I warned them to bring music and books along for the boring parts).
ReplyDeleteDespite myself, I was VERY impressed and even inspired. Much the same reasons as Fink. I was very happy I went. Big shkoyach to Aguda.
I left at 11 (when sefardi rov started speaking) so I don't know what happened at myriv.
dovy in Jersey makes no sense. I don't think more than a dozen out of the 90,000 there would agree with him.
oilam goilam
ReplyDeleteI also agree with dovy , so 2 of the dozen read this blog.
I think the oilam was inspired , this is the same oilam that gets inspired by Krohn, Frand an Mishpacha magazine
Frand is a screamer with zero gravitas. He should bring along a handkerchief not use his hands.
going to a 45 minute daf, is better than becoming a click vegetable.
Olewski says that people ask if the father is a daf yid when inquiring about shidduchim
There was another scheiner yid that spoke, George Weinberger.
Dovy has a point. The siyum could be an absolutely amazing event but the Agudah of today does things which if you really know what is going on will make your blood boil from anger & disgust.
ReplyDeleteI will be maarich a little later.
I was there and have no idea what Dovy is talking about.
ReplyDeleteIt was a very uplifting and inspiring evening.Rabbi Frand spoke memorably and I"ll take Rabbi Scheiners tachlis speach of almost any other.
Kleiman himself was mesayem shas and donated a lot of money here and everywhere.Don't you dare call him a kovod fresser.Shame on you.Rechnitz is a massive baal tzedoko anda very good person, so chill with your negativity.The same for the rest.I don't even get what you want from Schttenstein:Doesn't someone who's father and family have supported so many worthy causes,especially the Artscroll Shas,REVOLUTIONIZING learning for the masses, get to say kadish,even if unfortunately his backround did not teach him as good "ivreh" as others?
I tip my hat to the Aguda
Scotty is so predictable but at least for his coverage of the siyum it is entertainment for a change! He is harping on a Socialist Occupy-Wall-Street agenda that he has a copy of the gourmet food menu on Agudah letterhead including bbq spare ribs for those in the luxury boxes that the price is $240 + tax per person.
ReplyDeleteAll he nebich gets to eat in his mother's basement is some cold processed food so he wants you to spread the wealth around lol
(Posted last night in wrong post)
ReplyDeleteJust got back from the siyum!
Some quick thoughts and impressions.
I really think Aguda pulled off an amazing show of achdus.Really.
I saw all kinds of Jews, all backrounds.Chasidim, with large contingents of Belz and Ger I even saw a smattering of Lubavitchers, recognized R'Bogomilsky on the oiven on.Modern Orthodox anda lot of "amcha" Yidden.Since I traveled the old fashioned way with trains all the way from Boro Park,to Penn Station and than NJ Transit and back I got to schmooze with all kinds of interesting people including Lawrence,Flatbush,Crown Heights.What I felt most was the real feeling of achdus.Unfortunately,I have to say, that I was happy that the groups who don't like achdus and acceptance kept away.This venue was not the place for mecharcherei riv.
Speakers:Rabbi Frand was just excellent.He is just a great speaker, with excellent toichen.Rabbi Scheiner was very good,he left an impression on me as a humble person with lots of toichen, but the hour was starting to get late.Rabbi Lau, the reason for some of the kanoim not coming,,and thank God for that ,did not speak as well as he can.Maybe because it was late and people were fatigued and nervous about missing the trains back home after the transportation announcements that people should leave by 11:30,(which was not true,I left at 12 and there were trains after me)Maybe because he was speaking English, maybe he hadbeen pressured to keep it short because of the late hour...
Rabbi Olevsky representing the Yiddish speakers spoke quite well.
Mistakes:Unfortunately, progran started late and ran late.The singing which was very uplifiting was to short and some of the derushes were to long.They should have shown some more sites from around America and the world.
All in all it was a very positive experience, even including schlepping in trains with the rest of amcha yisroel
i think if Lubavitch would be there yesterday everything else would be fine. am I correct ?
ReplyDeleteFink liking something usually means its very seriously screwed up.
ReplyDeleteDovy does seem to be suffering from a dose of jealousy -- but there is some truth to his comment -- perhaps as chair of the event, Elly Kleinman is entitled to say a few words -- but only a few -- we did not come to the Siyum to hear lomdus (or mussar for that matter) from him -- similarly, the MC's job is to introduce speakers -- Reb Rechnitz seemed to think his duties included the delivery of a drasha -- thus, before the event really got under way -- you had a half hour delay, followed by two speeches by Kleinman and Rechnitz that should have taken 3-5 minutes each, but instead took some 15-20 minutes each. I have been to many Agudah Siyumin -- the non-rabbinic leadership - both professional and lay -- has never been able to control the length of the Rabbonim's speeches -- last night was no different -- but when you add the unneccesary chatter of the some of the lay leadership and the fact that this Siyum had far more in the way of audio-visual and musical presentations -- which were for the most part very well done -- you wind up with Maariv ending 2 hours beyond the scheduled time. By the way, as we approached 1AM a yungerman sitting next to me turned to me and with just a touch of irony noted the time and the fact that we had not yet davened Maariv -- all this as we were preparing to start learning B'Rachos again with its famous opening line חצות עד אומרים וחכמים...בערבין שמע את קורין מאימתי
ReplyDeleteCan someone please transalate the word achdus for me? Joining together temporarily for a shared common cause isn't achdus as far as I know. The differences remain and nothing has changed. If you help your shvartza neighbor shovel snow is that achdus or are you joined as neighbors clearing your sidewalk while remaining distinct? ...
ReplyDeleteNo machlokes, public or private has ever been brought to shalom because of these kind of events, so where exactly is the shalom/achdus?
Asked again, cuz I want an answer.
Revel
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you ask R Bogimilsky if he hates snags less now after hearing R Sheiners speech
May we appreciate an event that, for the most part, did not have that extreme Kanoishe/Yeshivishe negativity and immaturity so prevalent in our post-post Holocaust culture. Speeches, Music, Talented Singing, Professional Organization. How does it go?
ReplyDelete“We have come a long way baby.”
OK, so the Maariv made up for all the lost farketchtkeit and we had to give some attention to Novominsk and Lakewood.
Let’s face it, the Agudah has realized that it needs to address, not the holier-than-thou Asifa crowd, but the masses out there who will turn to anything which will inspire them positively. Rabbis Frand, Scheiner and Lau, did a superb job in this regard. The rest was just “filler” and fund raising. The colors of the shirts and umbrellas indicated clearly “mit vemen men geit tzum tish”
why did the Skulener not come? was he not a poresh min hatzibur? did they not terrorize Klal yisroel that whoever is not participating in the 45,000 Shma yisroel outburst in the Mets Stadium is not a Jew?
ReplyDeleteWhy is the NJ Shma yisroel of the 90.000 less... are we really such idiots?
Tzig,
ReplyDeleteIs this you?
https://picasaweb.google.com/ywphotos/The12thSiyumHashasOfDafYomiAtMetlifeStadiumHillelYitzyEngelAlbum4#5772061666041612210
NO, IT'S NOT.I sat with my hat and jacket ווי א טאטעלע
ReplyDeleteOk,
ReplyDeleteWill keep looking for pics of a Chabadsker in the Field section.
Hirshel, am I going to get censored if I write the truth about some Agudah rabbonim & askonim that left a bad taste in people's mouths last night?
ReplyDeleteMost poskim hold there is no lashon horah on something already publicized which covers everything I want to write. When the Chofetz Chaim says that heter on already mefursem is only a daas yochid, any big posek will tell you it is the only the only tzorich iyun in sefer Chofetz Chaim becuase rov Rishonim & Achronim by far hold it is not lashon Horah.
Even according to the few machmirim, the Chazon Ish holds there is no lashon horah if you are talking about manhigim becuase the velt has a right to know about their manhigim. Lashon horah is only on poshutta Yidden. R' Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz wrote in 1923 in the Dzjurnal "Licht" that when the manhigim are corrupt, there is chiyuv to be mefarsem on them.
believe me, I'm looking... I did see myself in the video, though
ReplyDeleteDovy youre an idiot.
ReplyDeleteI went, and really enjoyed. I thought Olevsky was the best speaker of all, Frand was mediocre. I also enjoyed R Y Hillel.
Baruch Levine was the highlight of the night.
Best part was the crowd- not extreme right or extreme left, but a nice nation just the same.
"Baruch Levine was the highlight of the night"
ReplyDeleteYes, I could see how a zinger would be the "highlight" of an event about learning LOL!
Yashrus
ReplyDelete", the Chazon Ish holds there is no lashon horah if you are talking about manhigim becuase the velt has a right to know about their manhigim."
is this in the regular Chazon Ish.. or in his letters....
Beach B
ReplyDelete"Why don't you ask R Bogimilsky if he hates snags less now after hearing R Sheiners speech"
You dont know Rav Bogimilsky he is not a hater at all...can u be a frum Jew and not a hater?
Yelamdieni Rebinie..
ReplyDeleteWhy did the Skverer not come... is Limud haTorah not as important as the Shemiras Einiem event...I thought Limud hatorah is the panacea for Shemiras Einiem and shemiras Machshove?
If the Tate did not go to such events... then can I ask him if his father made exotic shabosim with mass fressing in eastern europe?
Skver is not only is choshesh for what the Vizhnitzer says but they also have fanatical netiyos. Even without Rav Lau i could see them finding an excuse to be a bunch of insular hermits
ReplyDeleteHeshele:
ReplyDeleteI sure hope you enjoyed the event last night; at least as much as I myself did. It was extremely exhilerating, inspirational and educating and informative. It takke was "awesome" do dance by my seat facing the dais, just like the peileshe do on their bleachers. Let me tell you what I learned last night:
I hear a lot of things about Rav Malkiel (a.k.a. "malkiel") in my years in BMG. I heard all the arguments regarding if he is takke befitting to be the Lakewood Rosh Yeshiva - is he good enough in learning - or merely photogenic with a sweet smile. I also heard a lot about the syphining of funds, double kollel checks for his family, etc. What I did not know about Aaron's brother is what they announded last night: the Lakewood Rosh Yeshiva is a Daf Yomi Yid!! Unbelievable! No matter how much fundraising, phot ops, meeting with accountants he does on a daily basis, he still finds time to do the daf. Wow!
The other thing I learned was about the importance of Daf Yomi. You see, thousands of yidden learn biyun daily off exit 98 on the Parkway, yet they are yotzeh with a meager annual 'tent event'. No fanfare, or "Park Ave Propoganda", just people learning lishmu, knowing that most of them will probably never get a shteller that would make their shver proud, and no one (biderech klall) would appreciate their yigeyah in lehrnen. Yet- they continue to learn lishmu. Each one just being treated like an ordinary Joe, [not like the so-called 'mesiras nefesh' yidden who enjoy being viewed as the oasis of frumkeit in a desolate midbat, veda''l].
You see, I always was in awe of the heilegeh kollel yungerleit, who I thought were the shpitz.
Not anymore! Last night, at the ma'amad for Kovod HaTorah, I was leafing through the brochure and I learned something startling from Rav Gedalya; he claims that Rav Moshe equated learning the 'daf' with learning bi'iyun. Yup, if you don't believe me, just check it up again. So, I guess the yungeleit should stop the horevanaya, chas vesholom, and they should work for Gedalya. As long as they show up for a daily daf shiur - or maybe make enough money to be on the "committee for Siyam Hashas" - they will get the same for their buck.
At least the dancing was nice....
Good question if it's Chazon Ish the sefer or the igros. I saw it brought down in a halacha teshuva und gedenk nisht. The teshuva is from the mechaber of Yad Moshe on Igros Moshe who laid out Yabia Omer style every single Rishon & Acharon which is tzorich iyun gadol how the Chofetz Chaim says they are not rov when they unquestionably are.
ReplyDeleteHirshel, what's your verdict? I don't want to write for nothing. And unlike the vague bashing allowed through that various punching bags of bitter Chabadniks are supposedly grubber amei haaretz or rabble rousers, I have exact documented details.
verdict on what? I forget...
ReplyDeleteAm I going to get censored? I laid out al pi poskim why there is no issur to point out the corruption of some Agudah rabbonim & askonim, according to R' Shraga Feivel there is even a chiyuv to do so. (it was the reprint of this psak from R' Shraga Feivel that prompted the Agudah to send up Effy Wachsmann at the convention a few years ago to scream that even if a gadol from a frierdik dor said something, WE are the Daas Torah that has to approve it.) Everything I will write was already publicized and will have a source.
ReplyDeletedo I know what you'll write? How can I promise NOT to censor? Let's see what you've got.
ReplyDeleteConey Island in NJ
ReplyDeletestep right up and try some homemade achdus for $xxx
try getting your kids into a hareidi
school
nice menu for the sheiner yidden who were protected from the elements and were comfortably munching on their sushi, while tzig was sweating
one of the baalbatish speakers who choked up when he spoke about his Opa and Tatty has plenty of legal problems which are not of the eidel variety
As a hakdomah, this is not your grandfather's Agudah or even the Agudah of tzaddikim veyedidim like R' Maishe & R' Yankev.
ReplyDeleteR' Chaim Brisker hot amol gezogt that he will not join the Agudah even though in his tzeit it is a cheftza shel kedusha because in a few doros it will be corrupt. His exact words were that the "sekretaren" will hijack it from the gedolei Torah. Aizehu chochom, haroyeh es hanolad.
So far so good?
Yashrus
ReplyDeletethis edelsohn is a krumme kup
His name is R' Doniel Eidensohn and there are some taynos on him but that teshuva is rock solid. He did nothing but bring down all the shitos and say judge for yourself what is rov poskim. Nothing is distorted there. Any big posek who knows the sifrei kadmonim will tell you it is a kashya on the Chofetz Chaim how he could say it is yechidim only that are mattir.
ReplyDeleteYashrus,
ReplyDeleteDon't be a negative baal loshon hora, looking for so called "mitzvos"
If you want to be a negative imfarginner have the guts to post under your own name.
Do you have the guts to post under your own name?
the singing was to short. btw did anybody notice that rav olevsky said that today, when we look for a shiduch, we ask if the father learns daf yomi.
ReplyDeletesheiners speech was take not special or deep.
"sheiners speech was take not special or deep."
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that anybody can talk deep to a disperse crowd of 90 000 men and women?
He spoke from the heart and he spoke well!!
I agree the singing was to short.
Olevsky was probably talking about the Gerrer oilem, where one wants to know if the father is a learning baalbus
these were my feelings, i am not saying that those were the impressions of all those there.
ReplyDelete1. there were no great personalities.
2. More then that, many of the speech's were nothing special. though Olevsky spoke nice, and frand sheiner and lau were good. But I do not know, it does not come close to what it was before. Not in depth, and not in the way it brought home the yiddishe heartbeat (like reb chaim shtien did last time). There no were speakers, like rav gifter was.
3. on the other hand there was nothing more exhilarating, then taking part in a simcha of torah, together with 90,000 plus yidden (I was dancing and crying at the same time). The whole event was really special.
4. It started with some introductions (with a beautiful and emotional account by elly klieman). Then rav kamenetzky spoke in english, nu nu. Then the novominsker spoke. He started in yiddish, and then explained that he will speak in english in order to connect to the crowd. Also nu nu.
The presentations were good, actually inspiring. Abish brodt sang epes a niggun, but it did not come to old abish brodt.
Rabbi olevsky spoke in yiddish. He was good, though not amazing. Made some very nice point's though some were disparate and not connected one to another. It did not seem to me to be a major buildup. It was the fist speech by one of the rabbinic leaders that actually connected and got me listening. But it was not exhilarating, and I was not hanging onto his words.
They had this very very nice thing with over 16,000 kids who were masmidai hashas. Then reb g'dalyo wienberger introduced the siyum.then rav malkiel made the siyum, he droned on and on, not connecting to the crowd. I am not going to get into what he said (hint hint). It started in yidish and then changed course when he changed to english, then he changed tracks. Vehamaivin yovin. He does not know how to speak and connect to people, just to say over something nice. Then reb schottenstien said kadish.
Then there was the dancing. The whole night was worth it just for that. I cannot describe it, just to repeat the ma'amer razal that mi shelo ro'o..... and that together with the massive amount of yiddin, what more words can added to describe such an event. Suffice it say I was crying, singing and dancing at the same time.
Then rav frand spoke. He connected and spoke very well. It was a buildup, nice and communicated and expressed very well. It was geshmak to listen to.again I was not hanging on to every word (not like some of the previous events, like rav gifter speaking), but it was fine.
Then rav sheiner spoke, what can I say he is a cute guy. He read a letter from rav shtienman. Then he spoke in english. He connected to the crowd very well. He was not deep. Did not say to much. But was nice. He spoke a drop on rav elyashiv, but not to much. He asked that we learn with a chayus and add to learning. Also to stop sinas chinom and loshon horo, and to learn chofetz chayim.
Then rav hillel spoke. Nu nu. He even forgot to make the pesicho. When they reminded him, he said well we are starting Friday, so there is nothing to say, so he raid the mishna and ended.
Then rav lau spoke, he got a tremendous applause. He was very nice and he connected to the crowd. Though it was nothing spectacular. Said to have a chayus in learning and to constantly learn, and to remember the noisen hatorah.
Then there a kail molei rachamim and kadish for the kedoshim. And then there was ani ma'amin. Then the klausenbrger got up to lead the crowd in kabolas hamalchus. He spoke on and on. He Thought he was giving epes a shiur in a yeshiva. He droned on and on, and then did kabolas hamalchus.
Then was maariv, with much entertainment from the chazzan reb laizer ginsburg. Just his show took way to long.
Just one point: besides for the dancing, it was also great, the all the kadeishim and omein yehei shmei rabo's.
Yashrus
ReplyDelete"R' Chaim Brisker hot amol gezogt that he will not join the Agudah even though in his tzeit it is a cheftza shel kedusha because in a few doros it will be corrupt. His exact words were that the "sekretaren" will hijack it from the gedolei Torah. Aizehu chochom, haroyeh es hanolad."
was the Kehila in Brisk not corrupted as any Kehila in pre war Europe... My argument is not with Reb Chaim because he never said this words, it is with guys like you...
reb chaim did say that. it's in rosenheim's autobiography.
ReplyDeleteanother couple interesting notes: 1. when rav yitzchok sheiner got up to speak the hired singers began yomim. why? who considers him their melech? if anything the crowd they were pandering to mostly never heard of him before last night. only the yeshiva crowd, who they ignored, knows him. it seems that they were desparate to find some gadol hador and he was the closest they had.
2. did anyone else catch that reb lulek mentioned vizhnitz? he proudly said that he is named after the ahavas yisroel of vizhnitz (irony duly noted)
Ginzburghs marriv is good fodder for a farbrengen...
ReplyDeleteNice try Gershy.
ReplyDeleteShoynaimol what your patrons will do to destroy anyone who only points to already documented proof against them.
It doesn't matter if it's a document that they told Kolodny to suppress in the Agudah archives or from government proceedings dealing with their criminal behavior.
I wasn't there. couldn't bring myself to pay 100 bucks to hear a bunch of baallebatem loaded with money and live for kavod talk about how the only important thing is torah.
ReplyDeleteI heard that that the best part of the event was the salami sandwich's that were going for $12 bucks. can anyone confirm?
Oh come on, Hirshel. Even such a benign comment you censored?
ReplyDeleteLet me rephrase. Wishful thinking for Gershy that I will identify myself. We know what certain people will do to be nokem on anyone who so much as mentions a newspaper article about them that they don't like. This has happened already and it wasn't pretty.
And I commented about certain archival matter being suppressed by the Agudah which is widely known.
Oh, on shuldix Hirshel, I was too quick to accuse you of censoring. I got confused and thought I posted it earlier.
ReplyDeleteno prob
ReplyDeleteKavod fresser, which one are you exactly? It's very confusing considering that all thousands of you who were in the same place at the same time last night.
ReplyDeleteThere were many possible kavonnos to have the Kaminetzer rosh yeshiva. He is one of the only Americans to be a major rosh yeshiva in EY. I don't think R' Yitzchok Soloveitchik would be interested in coming and R' Nosson Tzvi Finkel is no longer among us.
ReplyDeleteThere might have even been the angle to sock it to Slifkin as Rav Scheiner is one of his primary misnagdim.
Kleinman was motioning to the hired singers to start singing when rav Scheiner got up there. Scheiner showed no false humility as he didn't gesture that they should stop
ReplyDeletemanufacturing spontaneity with the singing and the dancing being scheduled
Why do you care what Ner Yisroel boy Eli Fink thinks? Who is he anyway?
ReplyDeleteit bred Rabbi Frand too.
ReplyDeleteAnd the shaychus of a world class maggid like Rav Frand to some young guy with a blog is what exactly?
ReplyDeleteEidensonson refers to the hafetz chaim as a melaket without semichah who is just a baal habayit, whom the חזן איש called the lishkat hagazit . This itself seems apikorus or close to it.
ReplyDeleteHe can't read a mogen avraham without making mistakes
אכמל
Rechnitz
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH6bwetqnmg
no mechitza and off color jokes
Reichnitz the donor
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gHar0n8Yjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeviLraeHBI&feature=related
ReplyDelete"whom the חזן איש called the lishkat hagazit"
ReplyDeleteyou think that he chazion ish meant it as a fact? I think he meant a nice melitzo on the Chofetz chaim but far from meaning it for real..
R' Lazer's nusach & gantze arum might be an acquired taste but you actually got a watered down version of his full potency. When he's on home turf at Agudah Flatbush South and drapes a tallis over his head before he starts a derasha, that is the real McCoy.
ReplyDeleteYou danced like they do in oholei torah by weddings? Everyone drunk and dancing alone?
ReplyDelete" Welcoming the "5,000 Baalei Tshuvah" to the Siyum is sort of like welcoming 1,000 Blacks who came to the Republican National Convention."
ReplyDeleteLMHO
Thought it was real strange when i hear them announce that.
I for one heard one of the speakers talk about Dirshu. But it was in passing. like "If a daf is too much there is Dirshu which runs an amud a day".
ReplyDeleteOne character who has a yeshiva and is generally known for having a confrontational personality had a BT episode that was even more modenna. Mispalelim kept correcting the baal koray for mistakes which in his opinion did not change the pirush hamilos. He had a rather loud and thundery outburst of "mir zeinen nisht a minyan fun baalei teshuva".
ReplyDeleteHirshel - Rav Shmuel Shlit'a looked lost because he is not comfortable speaking in English. As much he is asked to speak in English, and happily obliges, he is 10 times more conformable speaking in his native Yiddish.
ReplyDeleteUnlike the Yididsh speakers at the siyum who were all born and bred in America, Rav Shmuel came to America at age 15. he always gave shiur and shmussen in Yiddish. People don't realize, but Rav Shmuel's language in his home is Yiddish. He still speaks to his kids primarily in Yiddish.
By the way, Dirshu was mentioned. I think it was in one of the videos. The mention actually got a nice applause. I remember, because I was shocked that they mentioned them.
I went. Mincha was great and it went down hill from there. Too long and to many laypeople (although I liked Rechnitzes speech). A well place source told me that Agudah made $4,000,000 from the speeches (and $3,000,000 from tickets). I left before Rav Lazers Maariv. I know him from the Mir. He is a caricature of a Bal Tefilla! Yuck!!! Does he think that is Kavanah???
ReplyDelete" Welcoming the "5,000 Baalei Tshuvah" to the Siyum is sort of like welcoming 1,000 Blacks who came to the Republican National Convention."
I too though that was tasteless and weird
what is the problem with dirshu?
ReplyDeletethere is no "problem" with Dirshu, it's the fact that you advertise till you get sick of them!
ReplyDeleteTwistleton, despite how it appears, R' Lazer is in fact sincere and means well. That is unlike another similar acting clown that was once in Mirrer yeshiva before being given the boot, who is NOT sincere.
ReplyDeleteDude
ReplyDelete5 mil - schottenstein
2 mil kleinman
2 mil werdiger
2 mil rechnits
1 mil weiberger
This was their most succesful dinner ever.
what's the need to get all those donations if they're selling tickets at a premium and not even serving food?! The HaSiyum book was also probably paid for in advertising costs.
ReplyDeleteFundraising is down. The mayor stopped funding from from his slush fund.
ReplyDeleteThey don't want to move their offices to McDonald avenue.
Werdiger didn't get a speech for his 2 mil, just a strategic seat.
this is where you've got to hand it to Satmar, people would not have gone home hungry or thirsty. on the other hand maybe the stadium doesn't allow free food as they control the concessions
i was thinking about keeping my HaSiyum booklet. but i think I'll chuck it, its just ads and a bit of mishpacha style articles. Anything noteworthy in it?
ReplyDeleteit has some pages that are טעון גניזה, like the סיום והתחלה, מנחה מעריב
ReplyDeleteHirshella, I'm surprised you would ask that. Don't you know what Artscroll has going? they pull in many millions more annually than the alleged siyum figures.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of shared negelvasser and the salaries are not chump change.
EDITED
I haven't seen that much quality AND non-cynical commentary of the Siyum Hashas. I was not at MetLife, but I watched it on a live hook-up, and thought it would be worthwhile to put my thoughts about the event and surrounding issues in writing.
ReplyDeleteIt was an amazing event. I know it is a cliche already since every speaker pointed it out. But it was amazing. Over 90,000 Jews celebrating how many people finished Shas is a Kiddush Hashem, no matter how you look at it. All the complaints in the world about the value of Daf Yomi, legitimate as they may be, don't change the reality that it is an accomplishment. It is an even more impressive fact that so many Jews find that to be something that is worth celebrating.
First off, despite all the planning, it was simply too long. I know that there is a need to make different groups happy and all that, but it was too long, and the tircha d'tzibura was tangible and painful. Besides for the fact that they started what seemed like an hour late... Call me and I will help edit the schedule next time.
Next: I'm glad for the message of achdus and all that, but hearing literally the same words over and over again was annoying and painful. I know that an event planner will ask the speaker to devote his remarks to a certain angle or topic, like "Achdus" or "Kiddush Hashem" etc. But I think the English speakers got lazy and stuck to a low level of boilerplate. Just because they don't speak Yiddish, or just because they are Baalei Teshuva (farkert...) doesn't mean they don't want something intellectually stimulating. My Yiddish is okay, was too poor to get the full meaning of the Yiddish speeches, but it was clear from what I did understand that the Yiddish speeches had real toichen that the English ones did not.
Some skeptics complain that balebatim were allowed to have a role, and say divrei Torah. Have you never been to smaller shul event? Balebatim always speak! You're upset that they said Divrei Torah!? That's what happens. Balebatim don't just get up and say "I'm an amhaaretz. Welcome to the dinner." They share some Divrei Torah. In fact I was impressed that they shared toichen, as the Gedolim who spoke seemed to limit their words to divrei chizuk and shevach and not Torah.
Do those balebatim have money? Sure! And why not? They are the ones who have time to get involved in Tzorchei Tzibbur and more power to them.
To be continued...
http://somehowfrum.blogspot.com/2012/08/spectacular-shas-siyum-sanctifies.html
ReplyDeleteAccording to this blog, the crowd started singing Yamim for Rav Shiner and only then did the band join in.
Hirshella, what is your reason for editing?
ReplyDeleteThe guy currently sitting in jail is there for a 2nd time already. He also once sold non-kosher baloney & cheese sandwiches which al pi Shulchan Aruch there is a chiyuv to be mevazeh him befarhesya.
The other guy I don't not accuse of anything except that his relatives are on the Artscroll payroll and make over 6 figures. This is easily verified by looking on the public tax filings for Artscroll's "non-profit" (sic) Mesorah Heritage Foundation.
Yehupitz, you hit my thoughts exactly. personally I was looking forward for more lomdus and intellectual somersaults or something besides nice pat-on-the-back speeches. Though one may argue how much lomdus can you expect from a daf yomi siyum? but it doesnt matter.
ReplyDeleteno disrespect to the chushive rabbunim who spoke. but any "balabus" could have said the same thing.
Yehupitz,
ReplyDeleteYou must've watched at a satellite hook up.In the stadium it did not seem all that long.
Apparently it started late because of the weather and terrible traffic.Thousands of people will still streaming in at 8 pm.
As a Yiddish speaker,I can tell you that Rabbi Frands speech was inmho way better than the Yiddish speakers.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with a balebos mc'ing.Elly Kleiman himself was mesayem shas! So I think it's just sour grapes.
For the future:Speaches should be vetted.I know that can be tough,but professional speechwriters need to have a say.
The music after the actual siyum should have been longer, and Abishs' first song should've have been incorporated there.
passing gas
ReplyDeleteIt's all good and well, but I feel very dirty. I don't want this blog to become UOJ or FM. It's OK to hock on the shittos of people, and even that should be respectable, but I don't care for becoming a shmatte blog for everybody to air their grievances about private people.
Maybe I have a very soft heart.
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteDon't allow your blog to become a place for people to spew personal grievances.
Thx for not letting the stuff thru
We should learn from their successes (and they shouldlearn from our). Maybe think about a plan that will actually bring together large amounts of yidden as they did. Maybe think of creating REAl AID FOR LIMUD HARAMBAM FOR THE MASSES, ONE THAT THE LEARNER WILL understand WHAT HE IS LEARNING AND live WITH IT (as opposed to opzogen dem rambam). It's funny that so many critics here and collive bemoan the fact that hey talk about achdus and what the use of this...when the Rebbe called for kinnusim and hisvaadiyoos that brings together people...Stop whining start doing...start thinking of real ways to bring people together as opposed to using all the energy in the blogs to find faults in noble things done by others (btw, some complain about baaley batim participating...some even comlain about J Shottenstein saying kaddish. What is wrong with that? Does not Chabad pride themselves with the lay leaeders SPEAKINGG AT THE KINUUS? (not all checking if the person has a kosher wife or not) does not chabad use all theuir energy to publicize a person who gives money to them even though he might be troubled and have a non jewish wife and sometimes they aid in the fake conversion of the shiksseh? After all J is not like that and all he doing is saying kaddish where he derserves it!
ReplyDeleteKominitz ( rav shiener) in jerusalem is maybe 30 bahurim.
ReplyDeletePart Two
ReplyDeleteRe: Achdus, I saw Yudel Krinsky and R Hershel Schachter on the dais. That's worth a lot in my eyes. There is no more Agudah as an organization that matters so much that YU and Chabad need to assert their independence from it by not attending, or that Agudah should fear inviting them as in years past. The Agudas Yisrael of America is a moisad that does two things: They are lobbyists and they organize the Siyum Hashas. Even those opposed to them in decades past can now relax. Remember that fiasco of how R Hirschprung was not invited? I'm glad that tekufa of "gedolim" is over.
R Shmuel shlita looked tired. I have heard him speak in English many times before, and do not think this was the cause. The Rosh Yeshiva is getting old, and it was sad to see the change. I thought the same think aboutt he Novominsker Rebbe. Besides the effects of age, it seemed to me that something was wrong with his teeth, namely that he wasn't wearing his dentures. I hope he is feeling alright.
But the Novominsker started what was a recurring problem of the siyum. I know for a fact that the organizers made a point of insisting that this be an English language event. The idea from the get-go was that there would be ONE Yiddish speaker. The Agudah has been told from many quarters that with the exception of some shtark ge-shtetled Jews most of whom boycotted anyway, that the "hamon am" of their main constituency, (such as it is) regular American Chareidi Jews, BT's and FFB's alike, those above 50 and below 50, that the oilam is no longer speaking Yiddish. I know this is difficult to accept when one has lived a life of Torah suffused with Yiddish, first from all the rebbeim and then only from the Roshei Yeshiva during Shiur Kloli and Shmuezn, but that's the metzius. The speakers were told this, and whether out of Yeitzer Horo or just comfort level, simply ignored the organizers' pleas. The Novominsker, R'Malkiel, someone else, and at the end the Sanzer, whose Yiddish was incomprehensible to most of the people who thought they did know Yiddish. It was obvious by the greater degree of crowd noise, blank stares and THE APPLAUSE by the oilam when they switched into English. I'm sorry English is not heimish. But American Daf Yomi exists in its current form nowadays to help keep amaratzim (i.e. poshute balebatim) within the fold of Bnei Torah. So ignoring their needs will only hurt you, Agudah.
One balebos with real but limited grasp of Yiddish told me that it was a shtikl offensive that he noticed that R Malkiel said his Torah in Yiddish and only broke into English for his congratulatory remarks.
The video presentations were very well done, in all respects. Way to go to KolRom. More cities could (should) have been included, but that would have required a bigger budget.
to be continued...
Yes Hirshel, the Shulchan Aruch knew that people would feel dirty but is still mechayev lehalacha to be mefarsem on certain avaryonim like Artscroll's L.P.
ReplyDeleteThere is always a politically correct double standard. No one felt the need to hold back being mefarsem against Moish Finkel and even driving him out of town. But the establishment covers up for L.P. who also sold treif as "kosher", besides his stealing $100s millions over the years. A very "fitting" mechaber for a "musser sefer" under the Artscroll imprint.
FYI, the ausvarf from FM has no shaychus to UOJ. UOJ is mechaven leshaim shamayim to stop the corruption. His zayde R' Shraga Feivel ztl is the baal shita that there is a chiyuv to be mefarsem to stop corrupt manhigim.
You once covered extensively the parsha at Chaim Berlin. As the last rov of Hamburg, Rav Carlebach said, covering up chilul Hashem only leads to great chilul Hashem when the cover up is itself nisgaleh.
Full video of Siyum hashas at metlife
ReplyDeletehttp://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2012/08/watch-full-video-of-2012-siyum-hashas.html
http://www.hillygram.com/index.php/category-view/icalrepeat.detail/2012/08/13/8577/-/parsha-with-zohar-for-men.html
ReplyDeleteShwink or fim.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jza5OQIJfNo/UBcfjykeI4I/AAAAAAAAThY/UZ_HWqLkyic/s1600/2012731_232011833_jpg.jpg.gif
ReplyDeleteShturem on Siyum HaShas censorship of the Rabbe:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=58172
--ZIY
ZIY
ReplyDeleteI sure hope you bringing the link doesn't mean you agree with what they're saying....
Agudah site
ReplyDeletehttp://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2012/08/with-no-website-of-its-own-agudah.html
It makes no sense that yeshivas and roshei yeshiva that BAN and FIGHT the learning of Daf Yomi in their batei midrashos, should be at the helm of "celebrating" it.
ReplyDeleteSure, you could say that the yeshivas teach the oilem how to learn. Great, and that deserves hakoras hatov and plain hakora, but let's face it, there is NOTHING in the yeshiva system that prepares most of those learning daf yomi to actually learn a daf kepshuto umashamao quickly and efficiently. Not in America in any case, where the yeshivas kvetch on one sugya for weeks sometimes.
Lately bachurim and yungerleit are getting wise and trying to learn whole perakim and masechtas at night seder, but during the day, it is VERY verboten to try anything quicker.
In Eretz Yisroel and in Chasidisha kreizen they teach the bochurim how to move quicker so it becomes second nature to them, but then again, how much do they really care about daf yomi?
The whole event was a terrible waste of money. Every yid who went could have been part of a siyum celebration in a local hall or shull. Enjoy it with your friends and neighbors and bring the children and women like on Simchas Torah! THE JEWISH WAY !!!
The whole concept of renting a stadium is so goyish, something out of the annals of Dr. Goebels and Nurembourg rallies and sporting events. Ah yes, the modern Olympics.
Good money went down the drain while in the same Jewish media that advertized this crazy event, there are tons of appeals for tzedaka for aniyim and mosdos. Let's say about 10 to 20 million dollars was blown on this siyum, cause: 90,000x100=9,000,000 (just from fees for seats) add to that the donated money by the bigwigs and it's easily $20 million down the tubes. What a waste. But what can you expect from a spoiled generation that thinks a Jewish wedding needs to be a time to blow Yiddishe gelt to the wind.
"It makes no sense that yeshivas and roshei yeshiva that BAN and FIGHT the learning of Daf Yomi in their batei midrashos, should be at the helm of "celebrating" it."
ReplyDeleteNot in all cases. Among others, R' Shmuel Berenbaum & the Bais Hatalmud roshei yeshiva never went and ignored the limos that Zweibel sent to pick them up.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteHow come this seeming infatuation with E.Fink? The man is a Chabad basher with all it's hiddurim.He cross-posts on various so called "rational" Judaic blog sites such as Dovbear,Frum Satire and others.Iv'e had a number of altercations with him concerning Lubavitch under different pseudonyms but he remains a non-repentant Lubavitch hater.I would call him the "tantz of alle chassunahs rov".On one hand he tries to pass himself off as a proud graduate of Ner Yisroel but he has no backbone and panders to the Modern Orthodox,rational crowd.
B"h bobov yet alone stands at the helm of true chassidish & holds the light of torah. Bobov does not attened the `siyum` because the `kedushes tzion` forsaw with the ohr hatorah what others did not see.
ReplyDeleteunlike belz who changed a lot the real meaning of belz, the little muddy next to the big town of lemberg, where the `daf` was banned. but money and politics controls the minds.
bobov does not change from the ways of our true gedolim.
CBT
ReplyDelete"Chasidisha kreizen they teach the bochurim how to move quicker so it becomes second nature to them, but then again, how much do they really care about daf yomi?"
outside of Satmar( which their chassidus is in a question mark) all chasidim learn dafyomi...Belz..square...bobov..Visnitz..Ger..Klauzenbugh and even Chabad..
yashrus said...told Kolodny to suppress in the Agudah archives...
ReplyDeleteIs this guy "der Kranke foon QG" ??? or is there another "Kranke" out there ????
Is the guy talking about "kranke" the former Agudah shlock shammess from QG himself or is there more than one dray kop who fights bechol koyach to defend Agudah's reputation?
ReplyDeleteCBT
ReplyDelete"The whole concept of renting a stadium is so goyish, something out of the annals of Dr. Goebels and Nurembourg rallies and sporting events. Ah yes, the modern Olympics."
didn't the Romans invented Stadiums...We Jews believe that all is created for us and for sure for torah.. if you ever passed Route 3 and looked on this massive stadiums,why did hashem put this on this world, It was only build for this event.. It is all in the famous Rambam in Perush Hamishna...
Besides, 99% of Jews that were at the stadium made a private event in their shul too..
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteAre you related to Eli Fink in some way? Is he such an odom choshuv that anything negative written about him is censured? Much worse has been posted here about the Rebbe with nary a peep.What gives?
Fink is not even within the dalet amois of Torah anymore. His hashkofo is YCT lite.
ReplyDelete....or is there more than one dray kop who fights bechol koyach to defend Agudah's reputation?.....
ReplyDeleteIf one is sick and does not take his medicine he just gets 'sicker'. As has just been proven.