I'm surprised no mention is made of the possible influence on him of the Eim Habonim Semeicho, who underwent a similar change of mind, and who was a follower of the Minchas Elozor and a renowned Dayan and poseik from the Munkatcher kehilla.
הוא תוקף את מכון הוצאת ספרים של חסידות מנוקאטש אמ"ת, שבהוציאם לאור ספר תולדות רבינו השמיטו את שמו של ר' ברוכל מהספר ולא הזכירו אותו בכלל א. הוא כן נזכר בשמו במקום בתיאור שמחת התנאים. ב. ספר תולדות רבינו יצא לאור לראשונה קודם השואה בעיר מונקאטש בימי חיי ר' ברוכל ובהסכמתו, וההוצאה שנדפסה על ידי הוצאת אמת זהה לאותו הוצאה שגם שם לא הוזכר שמו הפרטי של החתן בעת תיאור החתונה, וממילא נופל כל התיאוריה שלו
To the person who asked about the Em Habanim Smeicha.
Surprisingly, that doesn't hold up. Didn't mention this in the article but I've seen indications that R' Baruch once had a debate against R' Teichtal in Budapest. Influence is possible, but unlikely.
To the other corrections: "R' Baruch didn't want it". Far as I can tell, this is untrue. He was very bitter towards his sons for usurping his throne. Furthermore, he continued to call himself the Rebbe of Munkatch even past his son's appointment.
"R' Solovetchik didn't run in 1946"
True. I figured this out as it went to press and it was too late to correct it. My fault. I got that impression from somewhere, and I don't know where, but my fault.
"I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo" I have. Members of my family have had it said to their faces.
"R' Baruch is referred to by name in the book"
I checked for a very, very long time. I can check again. But 1) It is an indisputable fact that they have tried to erase his name from history. Even if this is a bad example, don't tell me they have not. 2) It is possible they erased his name from the book in its second printing.
In any case, I appreciate the comments and corrections, and I appreciate that it was posted.
Just checked "Toldos Rabbeinu" re: the tana'im. R' Baruch is not mentioned there by name either.
קנב. עוד כאשר בתו היחידה תחי' היתה ילדה קטנה בבת תשע שנים היה מהדר רבינו לילך אחרי בן זוגה, ונסע לאיזהו מקומן למצא כלבבו בן תומת ישרים, אשר ברוחופי שנים, תורה ויראת שמים, ואמר כי לנער בן עשר שנים בערך כבר יוכלו להכיר סימני טהרה מעתירתו אם הואכלי מחזיק ברכה.יגע ומצא בקצה הארץ בפולין עיר שיעדליץ דבר נאה ומתקבל,כיישבן לאותוצדיק הרה"קמורינונתן דוד האדמו"ר מפארציווא בנו של הרה"ק מרן יצחק יעקב מביאלא זי"ע בן איש אלקי נורא היהודי הקדוש משם זי"ע. ורבינו תהה על קנקנו ופתח לו גמרא ותוספות ואמר לו דבר מחודד ועמוק עלענין הלז וצוה להנער לחזור לו החידוד והוא חזר ואמר, גם כתב מיד על הנייר כל החידוש, אז אמר רבינודיןהנייןליבני אתהאני היוםילדתיךכי מצא את שאהבה נפשו ובא לביתו שבע רצון. קנג. והיה ביום ביום כ'סיון שנת פור"ת הוגבל זמן התקשרות התנאים, יחד ב' הצדדים נתוועדו ותסק עד והש"א בגאליציען, ורבינו נסע בלויתבעלי בתים חשובים מפה עם בתו הנערה ואמה גם אמו שלרבינו הצדיקת ע"ה, והיא לגודל רגש השמחה לבשה פאר חבוש על ראשה הצעיף )שטערן טיכעל( משובץ באבנים טובות ומרגליות אשר מעת הוסר המצנפת הסתלקות בעלה הקדוש הדרכי תשובה זצלה"ה לא שתה עדיה עליה עד עתה, ולעומתם באו מצד החתן המחותן הקדוש הנ"ל ובנו הנער הוא החתןכליל תפארת הרב ברוךיהושיע ירחמיאל שליט"א, וגםזקינתו של החתן היא הצדיקת מרת חנה ע"ה אשת הה"ק מורינו משה יהודה ליב שפירא זצ"ל מסטריזוב. וגםוקינה של הכלה הוא הה"ק מורינו יעקב משה זצל"ה מקאמארנא בא לשמחתם והוא קרא את התנאים בלבת אש, ואשריעין ראתה שלשה המחותנים הקדושים הללויום שצדיקיםיושבים ועטרת השטריימלין בראשיהם, ונהנו מזיו השכינה בשמחת צאצאיהם, ושיחות קדושות ביניהם, וכן ישבו במסיבה זו עוד צדיקים וחסידים ומברכין זה לזה ברכת מזל טוב, ושמחת עולם על ראשם.
The Author: "I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo"
Dear Author, The above was a joke from the belzers, since there was a rebbe z"l, and a rebbe, zol leben! so it must be that r' burech is the rebbe ym"s!
And the munkacher chasidim where saying on belz, that the current rebbe is a kudash merachem, but his father (which belz tortured) was a ym"s!
i guess what goes around comes around, munkach-belz-bobov at work
Interesting. You'll note that I never said the Munkatch Hassidim say that joke, only that it is said....it seems my instincts were correct on this one. At the very least it points to the fact that R. Baruch was persona non grata within Munkatch, regardless of who came up with the joke first. At any rate, it made for a good opening paragraph.
It was broadcast across the world. It was seen in America. See http://www.scribd.com/doc/97558814/Munkacs-1933 for more details.
I've already submitted my mea culpa regarding RYBS. I likely became confused by the fact he ran for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in '35, and then Chief Rabbi of Israel in '46. I fail, however, to see how it subtracts from my main point. If you take out that one half-sentence, it's still an article that I will stand here and say is 100% accurate to my knowledge.
"Did Reb Burechel run in 1946."
Yes. He did. Just because I got one thing wrong does not mean the things I was actually concerned with are inaccurate. The 1946 letter to the editor I quote from Dr. Hayyim Kugel explicitly says so. See additionally this item put up for auction: http://kedem-auctions.com/Items/%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99-%D7%9C%D7%AA%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%91%D7%99%D7%91-%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95-%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%A1-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%98%D7%A9
And also, the guy who said he wasn't chief rabbi of Sao Paulo, I have no idea where you're getting that from. Every source, written, primary, secondary, family member, every source I have says that.
If you are unhappy regarding the evidence I have brought to show how Munkatch has attempted to whitewash R' Baruch from its history, look at this image, from "Hevel HaKesef", put out by Munkatch, detailing the line of Munkatch. http://imgur.com/UXE02
Notice R' Baruch is not given a crown in the lineage. Essentially, they deny he ever was their Rebbe.
My intention is not to make up stuff, but rather to defend the honor of a great man and huge Talmid Chacham who has been disrespected by the community he led through a horrific time. To pretend he never existed, was never their Rebbe, and never did anything for them is a massive display of a lack of a hakaras hatov, regardless of the ideology he ended up taking. I didn't talk in this article about the efforts he made to save people's lives during the Holocaust, how he personally appealed to the Hungarian authorities on behalf of the Jews there, risking his own life, or how he personally arranged for the salvation of over 20,000 Jews. Nor did I mention, as per his own testimony, how his chassidim tried to stop him from leaving Europe, stealing his seforim in an attempt to make him stay, ignoring his increasingly desperate pleas for them to leave Europe with him. That's for a different article. I will say this though: He deserved, and deserves, better.
After some searching, I found where I got the impression RYBS ran in 1946
http://www.atid.org/journal/bdd17.pdf
page 47, footnote 7
"For more on Rabbi Soloveitchik’s visit to Palestine and his defeat in the Tel Aviv election, see Shaul Farber, Community, Schooling, and Leadership: Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik’s Maimonides School and the Development of Boston’s Orthodox Community (Ph.D. Diss., Hebrew University, March 2000), pp. 81-85. In 1946, the position was apparently offered to him again (following the death of R. Moshe Avigdor Amiel), and the Rav replied that he would accept it on the condition that he be appointed without an election, a demand the council refused. If this is true, it presages the Rav’s distaste for politics, and suggests the degree to which his 1935 defeat had scarred him. This episode was first brought to light by Shlomo Pick, “The Rav: A Pressing Need,” p. 52, esp. at note 30. It is also obvious that the 1941 Boston “kashrut controversy” added to his distaste for politics; for background see Aaron Rakeffet-Rothkoff, The Rav: The World of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik (Hoboken, NJ: Ktav, 1999), Vol. 1, pp. 30-32, and Farber, pp. 132-142."
So, I'm not 100% wrong, though I am pretty wrong. But don't think I pulled the idea out of thin air.
My point was "televised" or "broadcast" would not be appropriate terms for 1937. It's a generational thing. It was shown in newsreels in movie theaters.
To the Author Family tree is great. I was told by a descendant of the Yid Hakodesh that family legend is that PM Yitzchok (Yaakov(Rabin(owitz?) was also a descendant. True? You've been very generous in responding to the comments, I'm ure it is appreciated by all the readers. I've been waiting for many years to get the full story on the tragic history of Reb Burechel. I was hoping that someone would do their dissertation on him. Are you a candidate for this task?
To the Author, 1. He is specifically mentioned in the piece about the Tenoim u mentioned above, read again 2. Saying and implying that maybe it was erased in the second edition - is a whitewash again, after you were specifically told above that in the description of the wedding he was never mentioned by name by the original author. 3. Face the facts of life, he didn't want to continue the legacy of his father in law after the war, so what issue can you have from his father in law's follower's and Talmidim that did want to continue that legacy, he has ample time until his son was appointed some 20 years later. 4. The fight with his children had nothing to do with the rabbinical position of Munkacs, check your facts again, it has to do when he started selling of his father in law's yerushos that the children respectfully and rightfully were against it 5. Looks like you have a ulterior motive, it looks like you get your info from your cousin the famous plagiarizer NDR
my father was born in sao paulo. i have a grandfather who remembers the period vividly. they told me he was a rov there, who was mekarev many survivors (and went to college, and had a dog and went to the beach in the early morning (when there was no issue of tznius)), but not that he was the chief rabbi, rather one of the rabbonim there. ask any of the older people, it was not more then 55 years ago.
I wonder if YU would publish an article about RJBS's theology prefaced by all the insults the yeshivishe oilm has for him because he went to college and joined Mizrahi? Why do they feel comfortable with doing for RBYYR? This article is just not approporiate.
Author: I am not sure who initially said this insulting "joke", but one thing is clear: YOU are the first person to print it and YOU are perpetuating this horrible "joke". You will need to ask mechila at RBYYR's kever!
Yes, I have gotten information from my cousin R' Nosson Dovid Rabinowitz. He knew R' Baruch. Probably a lot more than you did. Therefore, he is a trustworthy source. Which you, some anonymous guy commenting on a blog, are not. So when its his word and your word, I trust him. Sorry.
I wonder if YU would publish an article about RJBS's theology prefaced by all the insults the yeshivishe oilm has for him because he went to college and joined Mizrahi? Why do they feel comfortable with doing for RBYYR? This article is just not approporiate.
Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:56:00 PM
As a matter of fact, one article slams one of their own, Rabbi Dr. Meir Soloveichik, darling of the GOP
Your argument is appropriate regarding a heimishe journal,where all the leaders are perfect.
one thing he did want to do (in my eyes) was to change the views of people how they thought about his father in law the holy rov which his chassidim held was not right better said wrong
one thing i did see acording to the comments from your family printed on the website of your magazine fetter burch was misunderstood one thing is for sure the munkatcher chassidim understood him very well and decided a new rebbe is needed that the holy munkatcher rov way is not forgotten
Bobover 11 "Dear Author, The above was a joke from the belzers, since there was a rebbe z"l, and a rebbe, zol leben! so it must be that r' burech is the rebbe ym"s!" typical Bobover talk,( like all Reb Shlomo yente legends) Reb borechel made peace with the Belzer in Munkach,they even send their sons to his yeshivah.
Author of this Piece ""I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo" I have. Members of my family have had it said to their faces." it was a cheap joke concocted in Willi when I was a youngster....
Kopust "and decided a new rebbe is needed that the holy munkatcher rov way is not forgotten" At the end did they succeed? Munkach had a famous yeshiva before the war...with good talmidim charifim.. now its Shiolim Hilchi Boi... big empty bldng... Rebbe is a talmid chochem but a lazy dog... no Munkacher fire in his stomach..
Anon " and had a dog" this Dog story I heard all my life...what does that mean? maybe he only had a dog in the Back Yard, since he had some break ins in Brazil, and some Unterlander Lietzim made it in to the Rebbe walks the dog by the beach story..
Many moons ago i heard that when his son (the current munkatcher in BP) had his aufruf in satmar BM, he walked from CH on Shabbos. He walked into the shul, told his son mazel tov, and the chosson said, OK, kentz gayin yetz. Is there any truth to this? there was definitely animosity between them, but how far did it go? A reliable source told me he refused to let his son see him at all in the later years, although the grandchildren were always welcome.
As it says at the end of the article, my great-grandmother, may she live and be well, is R' Baruch's sister.
Re: R' Baruch's attitude towards his father-in-law, as my article states, he did indeed believe that he lived in a different reality than the Minchas Elazar, which needed to be accounted for rather than ignored. I believe this is called "sanity". I also recall an interview with R. Moshe Leib in Mishpacha magazine, which used to be online, but, l'tzaari harav can no longer be found, where he said something very similar, that the way of the Minchas Elazar is not necessarily for today, that we have to be nicer and less aggressive....I don't see anyone dethroning him.
Oh, and now I see that someone has pointed out R' Baruch's name in the piece I quoted. My bad. I hereby retract my proof from Sefer Toldot Rabbeinu. Then again, it was printed before The Holocaust. But thanks!
the author comments on the original posting the following: "#1 Rav Soloveitchik did not run for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in 1946. The position was apparently offered to him, but he turned it down".
This is wrong again, JB said if it will be offered to him without elections he will accept, but he didn't want to go through the election process as in 1935
Who ever wrote this " Reb borechel made peace with the Belzer in Munkach,they even send their sons to his yeshivah"
the above is wrong the peace was made in the lifetime of the Munkatcher Rov by the Belezr Rov Reb Aron after the petira of his father Reb yiscor dov he closed down the kehila and certain belezr chasidim in munkatch did not like the move at all
by the way in the letter that the munkatcher rov shlitah wrote in 1982 agaist belz the rov writes regarding the machloka belz-munkatch
Wow, the most important piece of information in this whole piece is that there is a daughter of R Nosson Dovid of Shidlovtze still alive! Is she lucid? Where does she live? Does she accept visitors?
Author "Then again, it was printed before The Holocaust. But thanks!" but it was reprinted by the publishing house of the current rebbe lately.so you are basicaly out of issues
Akiva Your great grandmother is a sister of the lebertover or a half sister
the derech is the same the question is the presentation which is different the present munkatcher rov shlitah is not going to say what the his holy grandfather said that kamza bar kamza chorvo yerushlaim kamza roshe tevos communist mizrachist Zionists agudaists but one thing is for sure the rov will not go a aguda conference because he is the munkatcher rov and he goes in the derech of the holy rov which is what the Chassidim want and his grandfather wanted
I take YU to task for publishing and I take Tzig to task for re-posting this piece of hogwash that distorts and twists facts and reality. One by one, the Author admits to distortion after to distortion I also take Tzig to task for allowing such vulgar comments that call a Gadol Byisroel and manhig of an edah kedosha 'a lazy dog'. Shame on you...
I'd like to take a deep breath, take a step back and clarify a bunch of points.
I have been guilty of being overly defensive, and I have let my pride get in the way of truth.
I would like to address the two significant errors of fact I made in the course of my article.
The first one is that Rav Soloveitchik ran for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in 1946. This is untrue. He was offered the chance to run, but declined. This was an error, and it reflects poorly on me. However, it has little to do with the body of my argument.
The second however, is more significant, as it is both egregious and pertains to the body of my argument. I have to say, my foot does not taste good.
I erred in not reading close enough, in embarassingly idiotic fashion, in a public forum. R' Baruch's name does indeed appear in "Toldos Rabbeinu", embarassingly, right in the section I copied and pasted. It also appears, full disclosure, page 21 footnote 12, andpage 101 footnote 41, which I found after searching R' Baruch's name with my computer rather than my eyes. I was sloppy and not careful. I cannot give myself enough credit to say I lied. Rather, I made a stupid mistake. My only saving grace is that it was not my intention to mislead. I apologize for that, to you for dismissing your valid point. To my readers for misleading them. To the publishers of Toldot Rabbeinu for accusing them falsely. To truth itself.
However, even though I know my credibility is tarnished, I refuse to retract the rest of my article.
cont. next post, as it appears there have been problems processing long posts.
True, the proof from "Toldot Rabbeinu" is inadmissible. But as you pointed out, it was written pre-war. All that proves is that Munkatch is not in the business of erasing things from already written books. But in general? Look at the Jewish Press article I quoted from.
http://www.jewishpressads.com/pageroute.do/48851/
"The genealogy of thebar mitzvahboy is as follows: He is the son of Rabbi Chaim Elazar Rabinovich, Munkatcher Rosh Yeshiva; oldest son of Rabbi Moshe Leib Rabinovich, Munkatcher Rebbe, and son-in-law of Rabbi Eliyahu Betzalel Teitelbaum, son of Rabbi Yekusiel Yehuda (Zalman Leib) Teitelbaum, zt"l, Tetsh-Banya Rebbe; son-in-law of Rabbi Chaim Shlomo Horowitz, zt"l (d. 1968), Shtriziver Rebbe who survived the Holocaust, established his beis medrash in Brooklyn, and authored Darkei Noam. The Munkatcher Rebbe is the son-in-law of Rabbi Aaron Bernstein, zt"l, Rosh Yeshiva Chayei Olam in Jerusalem and member of the Moetzes Gedolei Torah in Israel. The Munkatcher Rebbe is the maternal grandson of Rabbi Chaim Elazar Shapiro, zt"l (1872-1937), Munkatcher Rebbe and prolific author of Minchas Elazar. The Minchas Elazar was the son-in-law of Rabbi Yaakov Moshe Eichenstein-Safrin, zt"l (1861-1929), Komarna Rebbe; son of Rabbi Eliezer Zvi Safrin, zt"l (1830-1898), Komarna Rebbe and author of Damasek Eliezer; son of Rabbi Yitzchok Isaac Yehuda Yechiel Mechel Safrin, zt"l (1806-1874), Komarna Rebbe and author of Heichal Haberachah; son of Rabbi Aleksander Sender Safrin, zt"l (1770-1818), founding Komarna Rebbe who authored Zichron Devorim, passed away at the young age of 46, and was interred in the ohel of the Yismach Moshe.
Today's Munkatcher Rebbe is also the paternal grandson of Rabbi Nosson Dovid Rabinovich, zt"l (1866-1930), Partzover Rebbe and author of V'eilu Hadevorim Shenemru L'Dovid; son of Rabbi Yitzchok Yaakov Rabinovich, zt"l (1847-1905), Biala Rebbe and author of Divrei Bina. The Partzover Rebbe was the son-in-law of Rabbi Moshe Yehuda Leib Spira, zt"l (1850-1916), Stryzower Rebbe; son of the Shem Shlomo of Munkatch who fled to Vienna during World War I and was reputed to have slept on the floor with a stone as his pillow."
Do you see R' Baruch there? I know my reading skills are in question right now, but seriously, if you could show me that he's there, that would truly boggle my mind.
Furthermore, whitewashing doesn't necessarily require that they remove his name. Only the fact he was Rebbe. Which they do. Look at the family tree I posted. Crown skips over R' Baruch and goes straight to R' Moshe Leib. That's dishonest. In the book itself, same thing. http://imgur.com/0C62L R" Moshe Leib, Admo"r R' Baruch: Not an Admo"r. Not anything. But his wife, wonderful lady. That's dishonest and a lack of hakaras hatov.
The essential question here is "Do the Munkatcher Chassidim attempt to minimize R' Baruch's role in their history?" I think it's very hard to answer anything but yes.
In regards to your claim that R' Baruch gave his position up willingly, I find it very hard to argue that from the sources. I looked at newspaper clippings from The Historical Jewish Press, and periodicals found on hebrewbooks.org.
All sources point to R' Baruch still calling himself the Rebbe/Admo"r of Munkatch up to and past his son's appointment.
Davar, September 15, 1944 describes him trying to build a Beis Medrash called "Darchei Teshuva" in Tel Aviv, hardly the activities of a man who has given up the leadership.
HaMeor, April 1952 ( http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=27966&st=&pgnum=20&hilite= ) describes R' Baruch trying to re-establish Munkatch Chassidus, way past the "Post-War" time you claim he had already given it up.
Maariv, April 11, 1962 "Chasidim Greet R' Rabinowitz MiMunkatch" and describes R' Rabinowitz being treated like any other chassidishe rebbe.
You can look up any of those yourself if you doubt me.
That seems to point to R' Baruch still maintaining leadership of Munkatch Chassidus in 1962, making it likely he was still in charge in 1965, when his son was appointed. Your claim, that he had long given it up by that time, seems refuted by the sources available to me.
That said, I'd like to, once again reiterate, I apologize to you for dismissing your valid points, for treating you wrongly, and I hope you can come to see that you and I are both looking for the truth, no matter how flawed I am in getting there.
the introduction to divrei nivonim. seen in the study of his great grandson in lakewood, he makes it clear that he wasnt understood by his chasidim leading to history playing out as it did.
It is very hard to continue in this fashion with comments on a blog, but this whole matter is not a simple black and white matter, you simlply lack the foundation of understanding the issues at hand and through that the doing's of R Burechel or his his (formar) chasidim etc. And yes i must add, you are very biased by what you heard from NDR and Pesska (is she ur Gm or Grand Aunt?), but i will try in a few short lines
So I made two mistakes. Which I retracted. My argument was not dependent on them. Everything else holds. My argument still stands, and everything else I have or can back up with sources. If you want to argue with me, bring sources, like I have. Don't just call me names.
R' BYY after the war did not want to continue being Rebbe in the sense he was pre-war, true he never gave up title but on the other hand he did not want to service his Chasidim either, definitely not in the capacity of what it takes being the Munkacs Rebbe i will state a few (not necessarily in chronological order, His second Marriage, going to college in Brazil, abandoning the chasidim in the USA after countless efforts by them to court him etc
one thing you can say for sure munkacs fell from his glory thanx to to his doing's.
When his son was crowned as Rebbe he was ok with it, he respected it, although it probably bothered him at heart, but he came a few times and he lead tish together in hs son's Shul, and by benchen said ברשות מורה מורינו הרב and always called his son Reb Mmoshe opposed to the way he called other kids by name, like the Diniver he called yankele.
The rift with his kids didn't occur until Reb BYY started selling off the Minchas Eluser's items to the highest bidder.
in short a good example to show that the rift with the kids has nothing to do with zionisim or קנאות, would be pointing to the fact that he didn't talk to his youngest daughter which is not at all chasidish to say the least or his 2 oldest son's (older than the present munkacser Rebbe)
this topic is a very sore one, a public blog is understandably not the place of such topic, just pointed out a few points to show that it is not at all black or white
People - take a step back. you can all debate the finer points and details here and there that need tweaking, but no matter how you rip him apart, the author's premise remains the same and has been proven. Anyone who hangs around the munkatchers knows R'Baruch's name has been erased from the current language of munkatch chassidim. His son, the current rebbe, allows his father's name to be skipped when listing yichus, no children in his family are named for his father - it has become a matter of fact and well known, no matter how much or little proof the author has given. get past it. onward. whether or not R'Baruch wanted to remain at the helm or not -irrelevant. what his role was in brazil, what year he ran for what - irrelevant. His chidushim, his divrei Torah, his hashkapha on the holocaust, his incredible heroic efforts to save thousands of neshomas from hitler -those things deserve to come to light and be shared with the public. if the munkatchers want to hide him from the world and pretend he never existed, fine in their world, but no more hiding him from the rest of us. others in his family want to see his dignity restored, his divrei Torah shared, hakaras hatov given to a tzadik. His is a fascinating story of transformation and growth in light of the undeniable acts of evil and miracles of Hashem that he witnessed. It would be a shame to allow his story to fade away and not be shared for generations. Have some derech eretz!! this kid is a college kid who stumbled upon his great-great uncles writings, wondered why no one else had been reading them and became passionate about sharing them. so he made some technical errors - big whoop. he fessed up and will be more careful next time. help him by sharing your (credible) sources, not just throwing unfounded rumors at him - that makes you no better. after reading his defense, i agree - the premise remains 100% accurate and he should stick to it. and he got your attention. now R'baruch's name is no longer erased from history. yehi zichro baruch.
Omission in terms of what? They don't have Binat Nevonim or Divrei Nevonim. Which, by the way, I'd like to know, if anyone can tell me, can you find a copy of either of those in the Munkatch Beis Medrash?
@m m Yes, she is the daughter of the Partzeve Rebbe, and as I said, is still alive and lucid as ever. Her book can be purchased, in a revised edition, from members of our family. Its first edition was put out by artscroll.
This piece is simply fantastic. Many of these comments are disgusting (and not just for disrespectful Shtus like calling Rav Soloveitchik "J.B". Would you Call Rav Aharon Kutler "A.K"?) besides two minor errors, which the Author has admitted, the article is factually very sound. Claiming otherwise betrays a misunderstanding of the sources. The point of the article is very strong and stands untarnished despite these imagined errors.
Another factual inconsitecy it the fact that "initially" RB wore no tie and he did weal "socken". No tie tack and no long pants!!
Hey, the picture in the middle of the article shows RB wearing no tie and Ramon Vishniak's picture shows no tie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boruch_Rabinowicz_019.jpg
There are quite a few pictures when RB walks with talmidim wearing schwarze socken.
I hope the author continues his research in this area and publishes additional works that bring this chassidus to a larger audience. We need to stop trying to tear down any Rav or Rebbe we don't agree with 100% and start looking for the elements of their teachings that can increase our Avodas Hashem.
Yoish "His son, the current rebbe, allows his father's name to be skipped when listing yichus, no children in his family are named for his father" please take a step back, Do you know that Reb Burechel states in his will, that Reb ML of BP should not say kadish or sit shiva for him, and that he want to Satmar Ruv that he should Oiker min Hashoresh his son Reb ML of BP.Its all in his printed will. You think that he wanted that he should name kids after him, its doomed you do doomed if you dont.
Yoish ", his incredible heroic efforts to save thousands of neshomas from hitler -those things deserve to come to light" I know for a fact that he is very happy to hear details of his fathers heroic acts in Budapest. There is a old Belzer Chosid that davens at his Minyan Shacrith daily, and this era is discussed, since that particular Jew saw Reb Burechel at work, and Reb ML is constantly talking about it.
Yoish ". help him by sharing your (credible) sources, not just throwing unfounded rumors at him - that makes you no better." he should have write about him, but not pull in to the mud the families tragic rift.which is a sore point and he never heard the other side,and they will never talk about it.
@darkie teshuva - based on your name and your knowledge, it appears that you might be noge'ah b'davar... nonetheless, i'll address 2 points - the will - if there was such a t'nai in the will -i would imagine that it came from a place of pain and feeling betrayed and that his kids would have made some kind of peace with him before he died. even if not, i would have hoped they would recognize that that's what it was and worked to rectify it by restoring his kavod after his death. there could have been a tikkun here to right the wrongs forgive and forget and move on but it seems there was not, except for the private conversations with one old belzer chassid. as for the author "pulling in the mud the families rift" - it seems that in order for him to bring the writings and teachings to light it was impossible not to address the elephant in the room of context - how it is that he became so obscure after being such an important rebbe, what brought it on, how it transpired and how it was perpetuated and why. there are important lessons to be gleaned from this story and you can't skip over inconvenient truths. and based on what you shared anecdotaly and the fact that the author is a relative, it appears that there was a lot more he could have shared/exposed but stuck to the relevant and previously written and recorded facts and exercised restraint. he seems very sincere and maybe a little naive, but certainly not malicious.
Author: See מעריב - Maariv שני, ינואר 14, 1963 (Article abt RB coming to Holon) and דבר - Davar שישי, פברואר 08, 1963 עמוד:13 (MZT from Poalei AY [likely the handiwork of RB's mentioned b-i-l] for Holon Rabbonus) Neither of these articles mention that RB is or claimed to be Admor MiMunkatch at that time. FYI: Unlike Jewish Press, Davar and Maariv are not controlled by Munkatcher Chasidim :-)
אחרי ככלות הכל פון אללע באבע מעשיות האט דער בר מינן מבזה גיווען אין דערנידערט א שיין אין מעכטיג חסידות שלא ע"פ דרך הטבע, מאיזה סיבה שהוא.., חבל על האי שופרא דמונקאטש! דבלע ארעא
תמהין ושילין מנן ומאן הוא רתימך! דאת ספית שפירא בריותא
the revised edition of Going Forward by Peska Friedman is available on Amazon through the publisher, The Wordsmithy. This revised edition (green cover) has been re-edited, expanded with more info and more pictures. You can contact Mrs. Friedman through the publisher.
Question: He left in 1948 for Brazil. Who abandoned whom? Did the chassidim abandon him? It seems that this was a rejection of his previous way of life.. chassidus a la minchas eleazar style. I guess he continued calling himself munkatcher rebbe because he didn't want to give up the notoriety that the name munkatch brings to his name; (have you ever heard of Parczev?) that does not mean that he wished to continue leading the chassidim. His son didn't become the rebbe until the early sixties.. which means that the chassidim were leaderless for many years. Many switched to Satmar.. I guess the author and his relatives from the Partczev side were disappointed by his abdication..not being able any longer to ride on his coattails.
For a more readable copy, try this link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kolhamevaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/KHM-6.1.8.pdf
I'm surprised no mention is made of the possible influence on him of the Eim Habonim Semeicho, who underwent a similar change of mind, and who was a follower of the Minchas Elozor and a renowned Dayan and poseik from the Munkatcher kehilla.
כרגיל בכל מיני המאמרים כאלו הרבה שטיות
ReplyDeleteא. הסיפור עם הרבי ימ"ש שקר בעליל ואין לו שום מקור חוץ אולי אפאר לצים במקוה.
ב. ר"ב לא רצה לקבל על עצמו עול ההנהגה והכתרת בנו היה הרבה שנים אחרי זה
ג. בתש"ו כבר ישב ריד"ס על מקומו כמ"מ אביו, ריד"ס והתמודדותו לרבנות תל אביב היה בשנת תרצ"ו בשנת תש"ו התמודד הרבי"י נגד הרב אונטרמן
אני ממשיך עם השקרים ואי אמינות במאמר הנ"ל
ReplyDeleteהוא תוקף את מכון הוצאת ספרים של חסידות מנוקאטש אמ"ת, שבהוציאם לאור ספר תולדות רבינו השמיטו את שמו של ר' ברוכל מהספר ולא הזכירו אותו בכלל
א. הוא כן נזכר בשמו במקום בתיאור שמחת התנאים.
ב. ספר תולדות רבינו יצא לאור לראשונה קודם השואה בעיר מונקאטש בימי חיי ר' ברוכל ובהסכמתו, וההוצאה שנדפסה על ידי הוצאת אמת זהה לאותו הוצאה שגם שם לא הוזכר שמו הפרטי של החתן בעת תיאור החתונה, וממילא נופל כל התיאוריה שלו
some of the many mistakes: jb tries in 1935, and he was never the chief rabbi of sao paulo
ReplyDeleteTo the person who asked about the Em Habanim Smeicha.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, that doesn't hold up. Didn't mention this in the article but I've seen indications that R' Baruch once had a debate against R' Teichtal in Budapest. Influence is possible, but unlikely.
To the other corrections:
"R' Baruch didn't want it". Far as I can tell, this is untrue. He was very bitter towards his sons for usurping his throne. Furthermore, he continued to call himself the Rebbe of Munkatch even past his son's appointment.
"R' Solovetchik didn't run in 1946"
True. I figured this out as it went to press and it was too late to correct it. My fault. I got that impression from somewhere, and I don't know where, but my fault.
"I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo"
I have. Members of my family have had it said to their faces.
"R' Baruch is referred to by name in the book"
I checked for a very, very long time. I can check again. But 1) It is an indisputable fact that they have tried to erase his name from history. Even if this is a bad example, don't tell me they have not. 2) It is possible they erased his name from the book in its second printing.
In any case, I appreciate the comments and corrections, and I appreciate that it was posted.
-The Author
Just checked "Toldos Rabbeinu" re: the tana'im. R' Baruch is not mentioned there by name either.
ReplyDeleteקנב. עוד כאשר בתו היחידה תחי' היתה ילדה קטנה בבת תשע שנים
היה מהדר רבינו לילך אחרי בן זוגה, ונסע לאיזהו מקומן למצא
כלבבו בן תומת ישרים, אשר ברוחופי שנים, תורה ויראת שמים, ואמר
כי לנער בן עשר שנים בערך כבר יוכלו להכיר סימני טהרה מעתירתו
אם הואכלי מחזיק ברכה.יגע ומצא בקצה הארץ בפולין עיר שיעדליץ
דבר נאה ומתקבל,כיישבן לאותוצדיק הרה"קמורינונתן דוד האדמו"ר
מפארציווא בנו של הרה"ק מרן יצחק יעקב מביאלא זי"ע בן איש אלקי נורא היהודי הקדוש משם זי"ע. ורבינו תהה על קנקנו ופתח לו גמרא
ותוספות ואמר לו דבר מחודד ועמוק עלענין הלז וצוה להנער לחזור לו
החידוד והוא חזר ואמר, גם כתב מיד על הנייר כל החידוש, אז אמר
רבינודיןהנייןליבני אתהאני היוםילדתיךכי מצא את שאהבה נפשו
ובא לביתו שבע רצון.
קנג. והיה ביום ביום כ'סיון שנת פור"ת הוגבל זמן התקשרות התנאים,
יחד ב' הצדדים נתוועדו ותסק עד והש"א בגאליציען, ורבינו נסע
בלויתבעלי בתים חשובים מפה עם בתו הנערה ואמה גם אמו שלרבינו
הצדיקת ע"ה, והיא לגודל רגש השמחה לבשה פאר חבוש על ראשה
הצעיף )שטערן טיכעל( משובץ באבנים טובות ומרגליות אשר מעת הוסר
המצנפת הסתלקות בעלה הקדוש הדרכי תשובה זצלה"ה לא שתה עדיה
עליה עד עתה, ולעומתם באו מצד החתן המחותן הקדוש הנ"ל ובנו הנער
הוא החתןכליל תפארת הרב ברוךיהושיע ירחמיאל שליט"א, וגםזקינתו
של החתן היא הצדיקת מרת חנה ע"ה אשת הה"ק מורינו משה יהודה
ליב שפירא זצ"ל מסטריזוב. וגםוקינה של הכלה הוא הה"ק מורינו יעקב
משה זצל"ה מקאמארנא בא לשמחתם והוא קרא את התנאים בלבת אש,
ואשריעין ראתה שלשה המחותנים הקדושים הללויום שצדיקיםיושבים
ועטרת השטריימלין בראשיהם, ונהנו מזיו השכינה בשמחת צאצאיהם,
ושיחות קדושות ביניהם, וכן ישבו במסיבה זו עוד צדיקים וחסידים
ומברכין זה לזה ברכת מזל טוב, ושמחת עולם על ראשם.
No name. Just ancestry.
"The two were married in a ceremony that was televised across the world"
ReplyDeletePoor choice of words. in 1937 nothing was being "televised" across the world.
That RYBS ran in 1946 is an extremely sloppy error.
Did Reb Burechel run in 1946.
The Author: "I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo"
ReplyDeleteDear Author, The above was a joke from the belzers, since there was a rebbe z"l, and a rebbe, zol leben! so it must be that r' burech is the rebbe ym"s!
And the munkacher chasidim where saying on belz, that the current rebbe is a kudash merachem, but his father (which belz tortured) was a ym"s!
i guess what goes around comes around, munkach-belz-bobov at work
@Bobover
ReplyDeleteInteresting. You'll note that I never said the Munkatch Hassidim say that joke, only that it is said....it seems my instincts were correct on this one. At the very least it points to the fact that R. Baruch was persona non grata within Munkatch, regardless of who came up with the joke first. At any rate, it made for a good opening paragraph.
@JJJ
ReplyDeleteIt was broadcast across the world. It was seen in America. See http://www.scribd.com/doc/97558814/Munkacs-1933 for more details.
I've already submitted my mea culpa regarding RYBS. I likely became confused by the fact he ran for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in '35, and then Chief Rabbi of Israel in '46. I fail, however, to see how it subtracts from my main point. If you take out that one half-sentence, it's still an article that I will stand here and say is 100% accurate to my knowledge.
"Did Reb Burechel run in 1946."
Yes. He did. Just because I got one thing wrong does not mean the things I was actually concerned with are inaccurate. The 1946 letter to the editor I quote from Dr. Hayyim Kugel explicitly says so. See additionally this item put up for auction:
http://kedem-auctions.com/Items/%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99-%D7%9C%D7%AA%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%91%D7%99%D7%91-%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95-%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%A1-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%A7%D7%90%D7%98%D7%A9
And also, the guy who said he wasn't chief rabbi of Sao Paulo, I have no idea where you're getting that from. Every source, written, primary, secondary, family member, every source I have says that.
If you are unhappy regarding the evidence I have brought to show how Munkatch has attempted to whitewash R' Baruch from its history, look at this image, from "Hevel HaKesef", put out by Munkatch, detailing the line of Munkatch.
ReplyDeletehttp://imgur.com/UXE02
Notice R' Baruch is not given a crown in the lineage. Essentially, they deny he ever was their Rebbe.
My intention is not to make up stuff, but rather to defend the honor of a great man and huge Talmid Chacham who has been disrespected by the community he led through a horrific time. To pretend he never existed, was never their Rebbe, and never did anything for them is a massive display of a lack of a hakaras hatov, regardless of the ideology he ended up taking. I didn't talk in this article about the efforts he made to save people's lives during the Holocaust, how he personally appealed to the Hungarian authorities on behalf of the Jews there, risking his own life, or how he personally arranged for the salvation of over 20,000 Jews. Nor did I mention, as per his own testimony, how his chassidim tried to stop him from leaving Europe, stealing his seforim in an attempt to make him stay, ignoring his increasingly desperate pleas for them to leave Europe with him. That's for a different article.
I will say this though: He deserved, and deserves, better.
After some searching, I found where I got the impression RYBS ran in 1946
ReplyDeletehttp://www.atid.org/journal/bdd17.pdf
page 47, footnote 7
"For more on Rabbi Soloveitchik’s visit to Palestine and his defeat in the Tel Aviv election,
see Shaul Farber, Community, Schooling, and Leadership: Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik’s Maimonides School and the Development of Boston’s Orthodox Community (Ph.D. Diss.,
Hebrew University, March 2000), pp. 81-85. In 1946, the position was apparently offered
to him again (following the death of R. Moshe Avigdor Amiel), and the Rav replied that he
would accept it on the condition that he be appointed without an election, a demand the
council refused. If this is true, it presages the Rav’s distaste for politics, and suggests the
degree to which his 1935 defeat had scarred him. This episode was first brought to light by
Shlomo Pick, “The Rav: A Pressing Need,” p. 52, esp. at note 30. It is also obvious that the
1941 Boston “kashrut controversy” added to his distaste for politics; for background see
Aaron Rakeffet-Rothkoff, The Rav: The World of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik (Hoboken,
NJ: Ktav, 1999), Vol. 1, pp. 30-32, and Farber, pp. 132-142."
So, I'm not 100% wrong, though I am pretty wrong. But don't think I pulled the idea out of thin air.
My point was "televised" or "broadcast" would not be appropriate terms for 1937. It's a generational thing.
ReplyDeleteIt was shown in newsreels in movie theaters.
To the Author
ReplyDeleteFamily tree is great.
I was told by a descendant of the Yid Hakodesh that family legend is that
PM Yitzchok (Yaakov(Rabin(owitz?)
was also a descendant. True?
You've been very generous in responding to the comments, I'm ure it is appreciated by all the readers.
I've been waiting for many years to get the full story on the tragic history of Reb Burechel. I was hoping that someone would do their dissertation on him. Are you a candidate for this task?
To the Author,
ReplyDelete1. He is specifically mentioned in the piece about the Tenoim u mentioned above, read again
2. Saying and implying that maybe it was erased in the second edition - is a whitewash again, after you were specifically told above that in the description of the wedding he was never mentioned by name by the original author.
3. Face the facts of life, he didn't want to continue the legacy of his father in law after the war, so what issue can you have from his father in law's follower's and Talmidim that did want to continue that legacy, he has ample time until his son was appointed some 20 years later.
4. The fight with his children had nothing to do with the rabbinical position of Munkacs, check your facts again, it has to do when he started selling of his father in law's yerushos that the children respectfully and rightfully were against it
5. Looks like you have a ulterior motive, it looks like you get your info from your cousin the famous plagiarizer NDR
addition,
ReplyDeleteNo one in Munkacs stole his seforim, in Budapest they stole the writings of the Minchas Eluser.
No one in Hevel Hakesef denies he was Rabbi in Munkacs, they maybe don't mention it.
Look in the Divre Torah that Emes Publishing gave out he is mentioned as Avad Munkacs
If you read the Kolhamevaser article, you will see this blog qoutes in foot note # 14! (calls us "wild speculation!)
ReplyDeleteread the first edition of the article printed @
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/101777006/Rav-Baruch-Paper
my father was born in sao paulo. i have a grandfather who remembers the period vividly. they told me he was a rov there, who was mekarev many survivors (and went to college, and had a dog and went to the beach in the early morning (when there was no issue of tznius)), but not that he was the chief rabbi, rather one of the rabbonim there. ask any of the older people, it was not more then 55 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAnother factual mistake is that there is no University of Brazil in SP.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if YU would publish an article about RJBS's theology prefaced by all the insults the yeshivishe oilm has for him because he went to college and joined Mizrahi?
ReplyDeleteWhy do they feel comfortable with doing for RBYYR? This article is just not approporiate.
Author:
ReplyDeleteI am not sure who initially said this insulting "joke", but one thing is clear: YOU are the first person to print it and YOU are perpetuating this horrible "joke". You will need to ask mechila at RBYYR's kever!
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteYes, I have gotten information from my cousin R' Nosson Dovid Rabinowitz. He knew R' Baruch. Probably a lot more than you did. Therefore, he is a trustworthy source. Which you, some anonymous guy commenting on a blog, are not. So when its his word and your word, I trust him. Sorry.
@Proster Yid
That is my eventual goal.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if YU would publish an article about RJBS's theology prefaced by all the insults the yeshivishe oilm has for him because he went to college and joined Mizrahi?
Why do they feel comfortable with doing for RBYYR? This article is just not approporiate.
Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:56:00 PM
As a matter of fact, one article slams one of their own, Rabbi Dr. Meir Soloveichik, darling of the GOP
Your argument is appropriate regarding a heimishe journal,where all the leaders are perfect.
you your cousin and aunt have agenda's, good luck with that, but has nothing to do with the truth
ReplyDeleteובנו הנער
ReplyDeleteהוא החתן כליל תפארת הרב ברוך יהושיע ירחמיאל שליט"א
The Author of This Piece: "it's still an article that I will stand here and say is 100% accurate to my knowledge."
ReplyDeleteThe operative word here i guess is "to my knowledge" agreed.
Akiva
ReplyDeleteHow are you related to reb bruchel
by the way did you ever meet Reb bruchel i did
one thing he did want to do (in my eyes) was to change the views of people how they thought about his father in law the holy rov which his chassidim held was not right better said wrong
one thing i did see acording to the comments from your family printed on the website of your magazine fetter burch was misunderstood one thing is for sure the munkatcher chassidim understood him very well and decided a new rebbe is needed that the holy munkatcher rov way is not forgotten
Bobover 11
ReplyDelete"Dear Author, The above was a joke from the belzers, since there was a rebbe z"l, and a rebbe, zol leben! so it must be that r' burech is the rebbe ym"s!"
typical Bobover talk,( like all Reb Shlomo yente legends) Reb borechel made peace with the Belzer in Munkach,they even send their sons to his yeshivah.
Author of this Piece
ReplyDelete""I've never seen the Rebbe referred to as "Yemach Shemo"
I have. Members of my family have had it said to their faces."
it was a cheap joke concocted in Willi when I was a youngster....
Kopust
ReplyDelete"and decided a new rebbe is needed that the holy munkatcher rov way is not forgotten"
At the end did they succeed? Munkach had a famous yeshiva before the war...with good talmidim charifim.. now its Shiolim Hilchi Boi... big empty bldng... Rebbe is a talmid chochem but a lazy dog... no Munkacher fire in his stomach..
Anon
ReplyDelete" and had a dog"
this Dog story I heard all my life...what does that mean?
maybe he only had a dog in the Back Yard, since he had some break ins in Brazil, and some Unterlander Lietzim made it in to the Rebbe walks the dog by the beach story..
Many moons ago i heard that when his son (the current munkatcher in BP) had his aufruf in satmar BM, he walked from CH on Shabbos. He walked into the shul, told his son mazel tov, and the chosson said, OK, kentz gayin yetz.
ReplyDeleteIs there any truth to this? there was definitely animosity between them, but how far did it go?
A reliable source told me he refused to let his son see him at all in the later years, although the grandchildren were always welcome.
@Kopust
ReplyDeleteAs it says at the end of the article, my great-grandmother, may she live and be well, is R' Baruch's sister.
Re: R' Baruch's attitude towards his father-in-law, as my article states, he did indeed believe that he lived in a different reality than the Minchas Elazar, which needed to be accounted for rather than ignored. I believe this is called "sanity".
I also recall an interview with R. Moshe Leib in Mishpacha magazine, which used to be online, but, l'tzaari harav can no longer be found, where he said something very similar, that the way of the Minchas Elazar is not necessarily for today, that we have to be nicer and less aggressive....I don't see anyone dethroning him.
Oh, and now I see that someone has pointed out R' Baruch's name in the piece I quoted. My bad. I hereby retract my proof from Sefer Toldot Rabbeinu. Then again, it was printed before The Holocaust. But thanks!
ReplyDeletethe author comments on the original posting the following:
ReplyDelete"#1 Rav Soloveitchik did not run for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in 1946. The position was apparently offered to him, but he turned it down".
This is wrong again, JB said if it will be offered to him without elections he will accept, but he didn't want to go through the election process as in 1935
Who ever wrote this " Reb borechel made peace with the Belzer in Munkach,they even send their sons to his yeshivah"
ReplyDeletethe above is wrong the peace was made in the lifetime of the Munkatcher Rov by the Belezr Rov Reb Aron after the petira of his father Reb yiscor dov he closed down the kehila and certain belezr chasidim in munkatch did not like the move at all
by the way in the letter that the munkatcher rov shlitah wrote in 1982 agaist belz the rov writes regarding the machloka belz-munkatch
Wow, the most important piece of information in this whole piece is that there is a daughter of R Nosson Dovid of Shidlovtze still alive! Is she lucid? Where does she live? Does she accept visitors?
ReplyDeleteAuthor
ReplyDelete"Then again, it was printed before The Holocaust. But thanks!"
but it was reprinted by the publishing house of the current rebbe lately.so you are basicaly out of issues
Akiva
ReplyDeleteYour great grandmother is a sister of the lebertover or a half sister
the derech is the same the question is the presentation which is different the present munkatcher rov shlitah is not going to say what the his holy grandfather said that kamza bar kamza chorvo yerushlaim kamza roshe tevos communist mizrachist Zionists agudaists but one thing is for sure the rov will not go a aguda conference because he is the munkatcher rov and he goes in the derech of the holy rov which is what the Chassidim want and his grandfather wanted
well peska friedman is alive and well and printed a book going forward
ReplyDeleteI take YU to task for publishing and I take Tzig to task for re-posting this piece of hogwash that distorts and twists facts and reality. One by one, the Author admits to distortion after to distortion I also take Tzig to task for allowing such vulgar comments that call a Gadol Byisroel and manhig of an edah kedosha 'a lazy dog'. Shame on you...
ReplyDeleteJ'accuse
ReplyDeleteI did not see that line about the "lazy dog"
please point me to it
I see now....
ReplyDeleteChaim Mendel, that was not nice!
@Anonymous, and mostly everyone else
ReplyDeleteI'd like to take a deep breath, take a step back and clarify a bunch of points.
I have been guilty of being overly defensive, and I have let my pride get in the way of truth.
I would like to address the two significant errors of fact I made in the course of my article.
The first one is that Rav Soloveitchik ran for Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv in 1946. This is untrue. He was offered the chance to run, but declined. This was an error, and it reflects poorly on me. However, it has little to do with the body of my argument.
The second however, is more significant, as it is both egregious and pertains to the body of my argument. I have to say, my foot does not taste good.
I erred in not reading close enough, in embarassingly idiotic fashion, in a public forum. R' Baruch's name does indeed appear in "Toldos Rabbeinu", embarassingly, right in the section I copied and pasted. It also appears, full disclosure, page 21 footnote 12, andpage 101 footnote 41, which I found after searching R' Baruch's name with my computer rather than my eyes. I was sloppy and not careful. I cannot give myself enough credit to say I lied. Rather, I made a stupid mistake. My only saving grace is that it was not my intention to mislead. I apologize for that, to you for dismissing your valid point. To my readers for misleading them. To the publishers of Toldot Rabbeinu for accusing them falsely. To truth itself.
However, even though I know my credibility is tarnished, I refuse to retract the rest of my article.
cont. next post, as it appears there have been problems processing long posts.
Re: Whitewashing R' Baruch
ReplyDeleteTrue, the proof from "Toldot Rabbeinu" is inadmissible. But as you pointed out, it was written pre-war. All that proves is that Munkatch is not in the business of erasing things from already written books. But in general? Look at the Jewish Press article I quoted from.
http://www.jewishpressads.com/pageroute.do/48851/
"The genealogy of thebar mitzvahboy is as follows: He is the son of Rabbi Chaim Elazar Rabinovich, Munkatcher Rosh Yeshiva; oldest son of Rabbi Moshe Leib Rabinovich, Munkatcher Rebbe, and son-in-law of Rabbi Eliyahu Betzalel Teitelbaum, son of Rabbi Yekusiel Yehuda (Zalman Leib) Teitelbaum, zt"l, Tetsh-Banya Rebbe; son-in-law of Rabbi Chaim Shlomo Horowitz, zt"l (d. 1968), Shtriziver Rebbe who survived the Holocaust, established his beis medrash in Brooklyn, and authored Darkei Noam.
The Munkatcher Rebbe is the son-in-law of Rabbi Aaron Bernstein, zt"l, Rosh Yeshiva Chayei Olam in Jerusalem and member of the Moetzes Gedolei Torah in Israel. The Munkatcher Rebbe is the maternal grandson of Rabbi Chaim Elazar Shapiro, zt"l (1872-1937), Munkatcher Rebbe and prolific author of Minchas Elazar. The Minchas Elazar was the son-in-law of Rabbi Yaakov Moshe Eichenstein-Safrin, zt"l (1861-1929), Komarna Rebbe; son of Rabbi Eliezer Zvi Safrin, zt"l (1830-1898), Komarna Rebbe and author of Damasek Eliezer; son of Rabbi Yitzchok Isaac Yehuda Yechiel Mechel Safrin, zt"l (1806-1874), Komarna Rebbe and author of Heichal Haberachah; son of Rabbi Aleksander Sender Safrin, zt"l (1770-1818), founding Komarna Rebbe who authored Zichron Devorim, passed away at the young age of 46, and was interred in the ohel of the Yismach Moshe.
Today's Munkatcher Rebbe is also the paternal grandson of Rabbi Nosson Dovid Rabinovich, zt"l (1866-1930), Partzover Rebbe and author of V'eilu Hadevorim Shenemru L'Dovid; son of Rabbi Yitzchok Yaakov Rabinovich, zt"l (1847-1905), Biala Rebbe and author of Divrei Bina. The Partzover Rebbe was the son-in-law of Rabbi Moshe Yehuda Leib Spira, zt"l (1850-1916), Stryzower Rebbe; son of the Shem Shlomo of Munkatch who fled to Vienna during World War I and was reputed to have slept on the floor with a stone as his pillow."
Do you see R' Baruch there? I know my reading skills are in question right now, but seriously, if you could show me that he's there, that would truly boggle my mind.
Furthermore, whitewashing doesn't necessarily require that they remove his name. Only the fact he was Rebbe. Which they do. Look at the family tree I posted. Crown skips over R' Baruch and goes straight to R' Moshe Leib. That's dishonest. In the book itself, same thing.
http://imgur.com/0C62L
R" Moshe Leib, Admo"r
R' Baruch: Not an Admo"r. Not anything. But his wife, wonderful lady.
That's dishonest and a lack of hakaras hatov.
The essential question here is "Do the Munkatcher Chassidim attempt to minimize R' Baruch's role in their history?" I think it's very hard to answer anything but yes.
continued next post.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to your claim that R' Baruch gave his position up willingly, I find it very hard to argue that from the sources. I looked at newspaper clippings from The Historical Jewish Press, and periodicals found on hebrewbooks.org.
ReplyDeleteAll sources point to R' Baruch still calling himself the Rebbe/Admo"r of Munkatch up to and past his son's appointment.
Davar, September 15, 1944 describes him trying to build a Beis Medrash called "Darchei Teshuva" in Tel Aviv, hardly the activities of a man who has given up the leadership.
HaMeor, April 1952 ( http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=27966&st=&pgnum=20&hilite= ) describes R' Baruch trying to re-establish Munkatch Chassidus, way past the "Post-War" time you claim he had already given it up.
Maariv, April 11, 1962
"Chasidim Greet R' Rabinowitz MiMunkatch" and describes R' Rabinowitz being treated like any other chassidishe rebbe.
You can look up any of those yourself if you doubt me.
That seems to point to R' Baruch still maintaining leadership of Munkatch Chassidus in 1962, making it likely he was still in charge in 1965, when his son was appointed. Your claim, that he had long given it up by that time, seems refuted by the sources available to me.
That said, I'd like to, once again reiterate, I apologize to you for dismissing your valid points, for treating you wrongly, and I hope you can come to see that you and I are both looking for the truth, no matter how flawed I am in getting there.
i just think its funny a bunch of bearded side curled heimishes without a highschool education successfully trashed a YU thesis paper.
ReplyDeletethe introduction to divrei nivonim. seen in the study of his great grandson in lakewood, he makes it clear that he wasnt understood by his chasidim leading to history playing out as it did.
ReplyDeleteTo the Author
ReplyDeleteIt is very hard to continue in this fashion with comments on a blog, but this whole matter is not a simple black and white matter, you simlply lack the foundation of understanding the issues at hand and through that the doing's of R Burechel or his his (formar) chasidim etc. And yes i must add, you are very biased by what you heard from NDR and Pesska (is she ur Gm or Grand Aunt?), but i will try in a few short lines
@Yanover and J'Accuse
ReplyDeleteSo I made two mistakes. Which I retracted. My argument was not dependent on them. Everything else holds. My argument still stands, and everything else I have or can back up with sources. If you want to argue with me, bring sources, like I have. Don't just call me names.
i meant partzive, is your grandmother still alive?
ReplyDeleteR' BYY after the war did not want to continue being Rebbe in the sense he was pre-war, true he never gave up title but on the other hand he did not want to service his Chasidim either, definitely not in the capacity of what it takes being the Munkacs Rebbe i will state a few (not necessarily in chronological order, His second Marriage, going to college in Brazil, abandoning the chasidim in the USA after countless efforts by them to court him etc
ReplyDeleteone thing you can say for sure munkacs fell from his glory thanx to to his doing's.
When his son was crowned as Rebbe he was ok with it, he respected it, although it probably bothered him at heart, but he came a few times and he lead tish together in hs son's Shul, and by benchen said ברשות מורה מורינו הרב and always called his son Reb Mmoshe opposed to the way he called other kids by name, like the Diniver he called yankele.
The rift with his kids didn't occur until Reb BYY started selling off the Minchas Eluser's items to the highest bidder.
in short a good example to show that the rift with the kids has nothing to do with zionisim or קנאות, would be pointing to the fact that he didn't talk to his youngest daughter which is not at all chasidish to say the least or his 2 oldest son's (older than the present munkacser Rebbe)
this topic is a very sore one, a public blog is understandably not the place of such topic, just pointed out a few points to show that it is not at all black or white
I don't know who is responsible for the site munkatcherseforim.org, but see if you can spot an omission there...
ReplyDeletePeople - take a step back. you can all debate the finer points and details here and there that need tweaking, but no matter how you rip him apart, the author's premise remains the same and has been proven. Anyone who hangs around the munkatchers knows R'Baruch's name has been erased from the current language of munkatch chassidim. His son, the current rebbe, allows his father's name to be skipped when listing yichus, no children in his family are named for his father - it has become a matter of fact and well known, no matter how much or little proof the author has given. get past it. onward. whether or not R'Baruch wanted to remain at the helm or not -irrelevant. what his role was in brazil, what year he ran for what - irrelevant. His chidushim, his divrei Torah, his hashkapha on the holocaust, his incredible heroic efforts to save thousands of neshomas from hitler -those things deserve to come to light and be shared with the public. if the munkatchers want to hide him from the world and pretend he never existed, fine in their world, but no more hiding him from the rest of us. others in his family want to see his dignity restored, his divrei Torah shared, hakaras hatov given to a tzadik. His is a fascinating story of transformation and growth in light of the undeniable acts of evil and miracles of Hashem that he witnessed. It would be a shame to allow his story to fade away and not be shared for generations. Have some derech eretz!! this kid is a college kid who stumbled upon his great-great uncles writings, wondered why no one else had been reading them and became passionate about sharing them. so he made some technical errors - big whoop. he fessed up and will be more careful next time. help him by sharing your (credible) sources, not just throwing unfounded rumors at him - that makes you no better. after reading his defense, i agree - the premise remains 100% accurate and he should stick to it. and he got your attention. now R'baruch's name is no longer erased from history. yehi zichro baruch.
ReplyDelete@psol
ReplyDeleteOmission in terms of what?
They don't have Binat Nevonim or Divrei Nevonim.
Which, by the way, I'd like to know, if anyone can tell me, can you find a copy of either of those in the Munkatch Beis Medrash?
@m m
Yes, she is the daughter of the Partzeve Rebbe, and as I said, is still alive and lucid as ever. Her book can be purchased, in a revised edition, from members of our family. Its first edition was put out by artscroll.
What's the title and does she accept visitors? If not, I sure hope you are recording as many of her memories as you can glean from her.
DeleteNadvorna in lakewood has divrei and binas nivonim.
DeleteWas RB blinded by the miracoulous light when he was yored to Brazil?
ReplyDeleteThis piece is simply fantastic. Many of these comments are disgusting (and not just for disrespectful Shtus like calling Rav Soloveitchik "J.B". Would you Call Rav Aharon Kutler "A.K"?) besides two minor errors, which the Author has admitted, the article is factually very sound. Claiming otherwise betrays a misunderstanding of the sources. The point of the article is very strong and stands untarnished despite these imagined errors.
ReplyDeleteAnother factual inconsitecy it the fact that "initially" RB wore no tie and he did weal "socken". No tie tack and no long pants!!
ReplyDeleteHey, the picture in the middle of the article shows RB wearing no tie and Ramon Vishniak's picture shows no tie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boruch_Rabinowicz_019.jpg
There are quite a few pictures when RB walks with talmidim wearing schwarze socken.
I hope the author continues his research in this area and publishes additional works that bring this chassidus to a larger audience. We need to stop trying to tear down any Rav or Rebbe we don't agree with 100% and start looking for the elements of their teachings that can increase our Avodas Hashem.
ReplyDeleteYoish
ReplyDelete"His son, the current rebbe, allows his father's name to be skipped when listing yichus, no children in his family are named for his father"
please take a step back,
Do you know that Reb Burechel states in his will, that Reb ML of BP should not say kadish or sit shiva for him, and that he want to Satmar Ruv that he should Oiker min Hashoresh his son Reb ML of BP.Its all in his printed will.
You think that he wanted that he should name kids after him, its doomed you do doomed if you dont.
Yoish
ReplyDelete", his incredible heroic efforts to save thousands of neshomas from hitler -those things deserve to come to light"
I know for a fact that he is very happy to hear details of his fathers heroic acts in Budapest. There is a old Belzer Chosid that davens at his Minyan Shacrith daily, and this era is discussed, since that particular Jew saw Reb Burechel at work, and Reb ML is constantly talking about it.
Yoish
ReplyDelete". help him by sharing your (credible) sources, not just throwing unfounded rumors at him - that makes you no better."
he should have write about him, but not pull in to the mud the families tragic rift.which is a sore point and he never heard the other side,and they will never talk about it.
@darkie teshuva - based on your name and your knowledge, it appears that you might be noge'ah b'davar... nonetheless, i'll address 2 points - the will - if there was such a t'nai in the will -i would imagine that it came from a place of pain and feeling betrayed and that his kids would have made some kind of peace with him before he died. even if not, i would have hoped they would recognize that that's what it was and worked to rectify it by restoring his kavod after his death. there could have been a tikkun here to right the wrongs forgive and forget and move on but it seems there was not, except for the private conversations with one old belzer chassid. as for the author "pulling in the mud the families rift" - it seems that in order for him to bring the writings and teachings to light it was impossible not to address the elephant in the room of context - how it is that he became so obscure after being such an important rebbe, what brought it on, how it transpired and how it was perpetuated and why. there are important lessons to be gleaned from this story and you can't skip over inconvenient truths. and based on what you shared anecdotaly and the fact that the author is a relative, it appears that there was a lot more he could have shared/exposed but stuck to the relevant and previously written and recorded facts and exercised restraint. he seems very sincere and maybe a little naive, but certainly not malicious.
ReplyDeleteIn LA, R Burechel and R ML sat together and shmoozed.
ReplyDeleteAuthor:
ReplyDeleteSee מעריב - Maariv שני, ינואר 14, 1963 (Article abt RB coming to Holon) and דבר - Davar שישי, פברואר 08, 1963
עמוד:13 (MZT from Poalei AY [likely the handiwork of RB's mentioned b-i-l] for Holon Rabbonus)
Neither of these articles mention that RB is or claimed to be Admor MiMunkatch at that time.
FYI: Unlike Jewish Press, Davar and Maariv are not controlled by Munkatcher Chasidim :-)
RB "feered tish" in R'ML's Munkatch BP shul (52nd St) too
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteאחרי ככלות הכל פון אללע באבע מעשיות האט דער בר מינן מבזה גיווען אין דערנידערט א שיין אין מעכטיג חסידות שלא ע"פ דרך הטבע, מאיזה סיבה שהוא.., חבל על האי שופרא דמונקאטש! דבלע ארעא
תמהין ושילין מנן ומאן הוא רתימך! דאת ספית שפירא בריותא
The new edition is revised with deletions or additions?
ReplyDeletePlease provide contact information
the revised edition of Going Forward by Peska Friedman is available on Amazon through the publisher, The Wordsmithy. This revised edition (green cover) has been re-edited, expanded with more info and more pictures. You can contact Mrs. Friedman through the publisher.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: He left in 1948 for Brazil. Who abandoned whom? Did the chassidim abandon him? It seems that this was a rejection of his previous way of life.. chassidus a la minchas eleazar style. I guess he continued calling himself munkatcher rebbe because he didn't want to give up the notoriety that the name munkatch brings to his name; (have you ever heard of Parczev?) that does not mean that he wished to continue leading the chassidim. His son didn't become the rebbe until the early sixties.. which means that the chassidim were leaderless for many years. Many switched to Satmar.. I guess the author and his relatives from the Partczev side were disappointed by his abdication..not being able any longer to ride on his coattails.
ReplyDeleteTzig wrote, "I see now....
ReplyDeleteChaim Mendel, that was not nice!"
But you didn't erase it!!!
which comment are we talking about? remind me again, please
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know where I can get copies of Divrei and Binas Nevonim?
ReplyDelete