(l-r, Reb Moshe Feller, HaRav Osher Zeilingold, RMF and HaRav Sho"B Gordon)
I knew this would snowball into something big, but one could only sit back and watch it unfold. We know that you care about kids alot more than they do. Do not take this to heart. You will rise above this. העם אתך. The abuse Gestapo will not bring you down. We understand what you said because we took the time to listen without jumping to conclusions. You're no less "sensitive" to abuse than they are.Your record of helping countless couples and families speaks for itself. You did NOT downplay abuse or try to make light of it. I would however suggest that in this day and age we not allow our thoughts and statements be fodder for the haters. They will stop at nothing because their lives consist mostly of hurting others. Issuing a "correction" or retraction may be the right thing here, but then again, you'd be playing into their hands. I'm no PR guru, so it's up to you, Rabbi. But this has to stop! We cannot allow ourselves to be manhandled by these people. This is America, not the FSU. We have a right to express ourselves.
Photo Source
he is lucky he lives in MN, the Hynes Gestapo will not reach him to frisk him to death
ReplyDeleteJust a thought let say Rabbi Friedman himself was molested as a child and he succeeded in life not through outing his molester but rather by the way he recommends dealing with molestation
ReplyDeleteWould that be enough proof to attest to his opinion.
in other words who says speaking about molestation is the best remedy for the victim???
Let me be very clear in no way do I feel molesters should get away with their crime. Yet I do question today's way of helping the victim
Nu, so a meshugeger in Minneapolis doesn't like Reb Manis, Rubashkin, or anyone else who lives in the Twin city.
ReplyDeleteBack in the day, this guy would mumble to himself in the back of Zeilingold's shul; now we all have to get worked up over him?!!
ah, but it's not just Minneapolis anymore!
ReplyDeleteHirshel, do you have any idea just how hurtful this video was to victims of abuse? I know you want to be Dan L'Kaf Zechus. Maybe Manis will explain what he meant. But there is absolutely no way to spin the numerous statements he made in that video into anything positive in my view.
ReplyDeleteYou may think I am bashing Lubavitch by criticizing him on my blog, But read the comments. Some of them were made by professional mental health workers.
One of them a Frum and recognized expert in the field who chose to be anonymous. These people are not Lubavitch bashers.
I await his response to this. But frankly I don't see how the can spin his way out of some of the insensitive things he said.
Hirshel, I ask that you do me a favor. If you post this comment don't allow the typical bashing I get here. Let's raise the bar of commenting to one of respectful discourse. OK?
ok, Harry. I'll do my absolute best, IYH.
ReplyDeleteI'd love not to write an anon comment, but I aint risking it on this issue.
ReplyDeleteMolestation is wrong - it's terrible. I should know. I was molested as a child by a rebbi in first grade and then by a camp counselor. It's a terrible thing.
I once caught a person trying to "feel up" one of my children and I came very close to killing him.
Having said all that - the professional tumulurs and protestors are full of crap. All the outrage is not usually about molestation. It's a heckuva excuse to rip the system and all things frum. Most of these professional protesters wouldn't lift a finger to actually save a child. I guarantee it.
I'm disappointed in Rabbi Friedman for not realizing what a touchy issue this is and how he'll expose himself to the haters. What he said is insensitive and somewhat narish but not a reason to rip the man to shreds [and I'm no Lubav defender.] He shoulda realized what he's up against.
Hirshel
ReplyDeleteplease dont fall for the Chanifa of Maryles.
Keep you policy of no censor flow
The 64k question.
ReplyDelete.would Hirshel defend this guy if he was not a fellow
lubav?
I say no
So this has nothing.yo do with whether what Friedman said is right or wrong, ITs
yossi
whether u r lubav or not
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteI"m moicheh!!!
You claim you are not a p.r. guy???
Sorry, that is exactly what you are!
A paid Lubob p.r guy.
You act as their attack dog, whenever you deem that there was a "chilul kvod lubob".Be it Mishpacha magazine, R'Kotler from bmg vechulu vechulu.
Manis needs to to read the book "Doesn't Anyone Blush Anymore?"
paid? lol. Halevai.
ReplyDeleteTzig,
ReplyDeleteAs you know I am far from a Lubab lover and I have real issues with R'MF (lots of hubris. Look at the vast difference in his smugness in the two videos (the apology one is now posted. I know there is a difference between talking directly to a camera and a question and answer session but he seems chastised and a lot more humble in the 2nd video) All that being said I must agree with the previous comment. I know a lot of victims personally and have huge amounts of sympathy for them. But the anti's with their questionable motives are running rampant. I was at a wedding a couple of years ago which was attended by YK (a famous Rebbi molestor) and I turned to a friend and said "how sick is it that I actually feel bad for him. that is what FM & UOJ have accomplished. They have swung our Rochmonus in the other direction.
Harry molests yiddishkeit and you protect him.
ReplyDeleteHere is Rabbi Friedman's reply:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7zLhtmfT-4
He is great.
It's impossible to defend RMF'S words. Listen to the 13 minutes of audio. Moronic.
ReplyDeleteI am not Hirshels PR guy, but this Lubav thing is foolish, he was never in the FM Mariles Lopin camp, He always kept a distance from their views. And personaly I think that Rabbi Manis has a point, but the tought police will kill him, since this is now the holy cow...
ReplyDeleteBTW, why is Hirshel starting again woith the Anon...
Manis can make an al hamichya on his speaking career
ReplyDeletecan you please identify the other people in the pic. thanks.
ReplyDeleteBloomberg Judenrat,
ReplyDeleteYour reasoning is as noxious as your name.
This is more than a question of psychology. The Aruch Hashulchan says din mesirah doesnt apply under medinah shel chesed. Most haredi poskim do not relay on that to allow reporting molesters to the police. they rely on the presumption that molesting causes mental health damage of the sort that it constitutes sakkanos nefashos. MF's comments undermine that rationale.
You can focus on pop psychology about my motives or you can deal with the substance of what he says.
Bloomberg Judenrat, please, consider another name. Judenrat is a title for a repressive Jewish establishment collaborating with Nazis not for outsider insurgents. OTOH if you consider yourself a part of a repressive sell out establishment Collaborating with Nazis just call yourself Judenrat.
I watched the video of RMF's reply. He was excellent. Yasher koach Manis.
ReplyDeleteThis blew way out of control. I do not know RMF personally, however I've seen his stuff on the web and heard him throughout the years (on the web)several times. I do not think he should be thrown into the same camp as the satmars and others who are covering up for molesters.
ReplyDeleteRMF is very vocal about his opinions and he's not one to shy away from controversy. Having said that, I think he is probably out of touch on where this issue is today in the Frum/Jewish world. This is the hottest issue with haters on all sides and people that are ready to behead the molesters, some are ready to behead the 'coveruppers' and others are ready to behead the mosrim.
The one thing that gets lost in the hubbub is that there are many degrees of molesters, of being molested and of coveruppers. I do not think RMF was referring to a victim of Weberman when he was saying that the best way is to move on. A kid that was once touched would not fall into the same category of abused as the Weberman victim. When RMF talks about many kids being molested in Yeshiva - he ISN'T wrong! We aren't talking about Weberman victims. We are talking about a young teenager that brushed up in the mikva once, or a roommate touched him, or he was exposed to an erection in the Mikva. Those are all forms of sexual molestation, and the best way to advance from that is to move on and not dwell on it. He should stand behind his words. It's embarrassing but you move on and you put it behind you.
I have discussed this with countless people who were molested in Yeshiva and their attitude was the same, you move on. What should be the attitude? You arrest a bochur that was 17 when he molested a 15 year old - ten years later? It's obsurd.
On the other hand, boys/girls that were serially molested over years with Weberman tactics, those people are a minority and RMF was definitley reffering to those Weberman-type victims.
I think that looking at this issue with black and white vision will end up destroying more and more lives, than if it was done responsibly. I think Harry Maryles whom I respect for his wonderful blog, needs to think about this, and open up a discussion about differentiation amongst the molested/abused.
someone explains his statements...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=23795&alias=whats-rabbi-manis-thinking
OK so I wasted time listening to both videos... It is classic Manis.
ReplyDeleteI never was impressed in decades on how he taught chassidus or anything else.... it is just his shock style.
Given context of his personality which has nothing to do with his Chabadness..... this is being blown out of proportion.... you should hear his talks after Gimmel Tammuz, his tape series etc...
I sit somewhere between the views of Hirshel and Harry. My take on it is here
ReplyDeletehttp://pitputim.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/where-rabbi-manis-friedman-got-it-wrong/
Fred
ReplyDeleteyou are not so deep and Manis is not so shallow, unless you have something else against him
Reb Yeruchem
ReplyDelete"The Aruch Hashulchan says din mesirah doesnt apply under medinah shel chesed."
Source please???
I am very happy that you are using torah as a guide in your life..
Reb Yerachmiel
ReplyDelete"Bloomberg Judenrat, please, consider another name. Judenrat is a title for a repressive Jewish establishment collaborating with Nazis not for outsider insurgents. OTOH if you consider yourself a part of a repressive sell out establishment Collaborating with Nazis just call yourself Judenrat."
Bloomberg's power and money went to his head,He is looking out for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.He does not care if thev middle class will leave NYC,he believes he will fill it up with some more big shots.And he is out to drive the halachicaly jews into bunkers.
eventualy if he gets it his way,Brissim will be done in basement with no fanfare, and nobody will register their babies till a year old, schools will go unlisted if he will put his paws to enforce his curiculum. This is no apocalyptic stuff. Honestly a mayor that does not rely on your money for funding is a mistake, he gets in there and becomes a bully.
It is very difficult to say a good word about chasidim or even charedim on the blogs….there is a hysteria in the air, a lynch party of sorts that is largely unconscious. People think they are doing the right thing in supporting the universal draft in Israel or exposing charedi welfare fraud in the US. or discussing a new charedi outrage daily. You don’t have to be a great psychologist to see the damage that is being done. Rabbi Friedman is an idiot and ought to be taken out and exposed, & yet the process has externalities that are terribly destructive. It’s a tragic situation. I think chasidim have given up on the internet, withdrawn from the fray and allowed the critical voices to dominate the conversation. They underestimate the longer term destructive power of the blogs. They very much ought to return and dive into the conversation.
ReplyDeletedive in and say what, EJ?
ReplyDeleteI judge a man by his detractors:
ReplyDeleteHarry Maley Rishus Leylo Sechel
Yerachmiel Lowlife
Waxy Manny
and of course Failed Scotty
ie the usual peanut gallery that appears every time anyone wearing a hat and beard says something remotely controversial. These guys don't care if they're bashing Manis Friedman, Moshe Aryeh Friedman, or Benny Friedman - they're of the same ilk as Thomas Friedman.
R' Manis, who frankly does NOT appeal to me (he's more for the granola crowd, which is fine), is guilty only of doing a bad job of explaining some very good points.
You see the anti-chasidic/charedi posts and comments being written everywhere. Think 19 votes for Lapid. Each case is different, but basically it consists in pointing out that chasidus and kabalah are not a foreign introject into Jewish life, but integral to the entire development of Jewish thought, & that chasidim do not need instruction on how to live their lives. For one of many examples see my back and forth with Dovbear two days ago. It is crazy that I should be out there alone saying a good word about chasidish life. Where are the half million Jews who know so much more than me, and in a better position to answer skeptical criticisms.
ReplyDeletehttp://dovbear.blogspot.com/2013/01/long-live-kingrebbah.html
Evanston Jew doth pretest too much. There is no bias against Chasiddus or against hasiddim. What is offensive is the sinful and and lawnless behavior condoned by the haredi and Chasidic leadership. Evanston Jew wants to deny the problems and cultural contradictions destroying the wholeness of contemporay hasiddic life.Kabbolah and chasidic teaching are deeply respected and diseminated accross the Jewish world. Sexual abuse and legal violations are the issue.
ReplyDeleteRav Lopin
ReplyDelete""The Aruch Hashulchan says din mesirah doesnt apply under medinah shel chesed."
source please
2nd request
Anonymous...I feel I neither pretest or protest too much. As a prooftext I ask you or anyone to find 5 or at least 1 pro-chasidic or kabalah post on either Dovbear, Rabbi Maryles, UOJ, False Messiah, Slifkin or the now expired Orthoprax. I read all and comment on some, especially on the imo more responsible and mature blog of R. Maryles. I have no doubt all these bloggers are most sincere, and feel they are working in a contructive way to eliminate evils that are hidden. But the unforseen and hopefully unintended cumulative effect of reading daily of charedi sex crimes and vice, civil and criminal wrongdoings, & sermons on: charedim's lack of a proper work ethic, or the superstitions of chasidim or their authoritarian hierarchies, & their refusal to be drafted into the IDF and their horrible anti-Zionism and their welfare fraud and their lack of secular education....After a while the impression is created these Jews should all commit hari kari. I think it should be possible for me point this out with being told I am in denial and an apologist for evil. When I started blogging in 2006 you couldn't say a good word about anyone who wasn't Orthodox. Today the wheel has turned and saying something nice about charedim, and especially the chasidic majority has become the new taboo.
ReplyDeleteI have long since figured out that the skeptics are just howling in the wind to their own minions.
ReplyDeleteIt pays to expose the fact that, for instance, Scotty apparently has no means of support other than Federal funds (and that he ate plenty of times by the Friedmans, who are so devoted to what they do that they hardly have a penny in their bank account), but it does not pay to wade in the muck with these menuvelach and argue with them.
DovBear has no guts at all - he hides behind a phony identity and attacks those who are so much more than he will ever be. He really has nothing to say, but he says it loud. Maryles is a little nobody who became an online somebody by attacking others.
When a dog barks, I don't bark back. If a dog's barking gets too loud, I call the animal control officers. On the Internet, there is no SPCA and no animal control officer, so the dogs bark and their minions think barking is wisdom. Most of the ones they fool have already been fooled before, and some of the others who are fooled are not even 18 years of age.
kinky friedman/ evs Jew
ReplyDeleteOn Maryles I sensed lately that he is not as anti black hatter as he used to be. Since his son the Daf Yomi Magid shiur is slanted towards black haterisim. And he has so much siechel, to get Yidish Nachas from that.Plus that YU scandal hit him between the eyes.
He is at the end, not some lowlife bachelor in a moldy basement trying to rip apart Orthodoxy. He had a Reb Aron Soloviechig for a Rebbe. He should know what torah is all about, not from learning by him, because Maryles knowledge in torah is very weak, but just knowing Reb Aron is enough.
His venom is slowly evaporating, but his problem is, that he is quite shallow, and he does not have other topics on his mind. So he is continuing as Keilu Kofou Shed.
Bloomberg Judenrat,
ReplyDelete1. Aruch HaShulchan, Choshen Mishpat, 22:8
2. Are you so ignorant that you think requiring minimal English competence is like fulfilling Nazi quotas and selecting Jews should be deported to death camps?
3. Are you so ignorant that you think an informed consent form for MBP(not a ban) is like fulfilling Nazi quotas and selecting Jews should be deported to death camps?
4. Over and over I notice that the famed Chabad ahavas yisroel goes out the window the moment you are busy defending one of your own. So Hirshel has the chutzpah to come to my blog and accuse me of lying without even having the courage to specifically say how or why or what. This after he resisted my insistence that he was not convinced that I had not a good enough basis to say Weberman was guilty from the beginning. I patiently disagreed with him. Finally, he is modeh, because someone he knows told him he knows. So, Hirshel which way do you go. Do you state my lie or apologize. Calling someone a liar without facts is a childlish tactic unbecoming someone who claims he is serious.
Manis has apologised in no uncertain terms, and so he should have. End of Story.
ReplyDeleteLopin
ReplyDelete". Aruch HaShulchan, Choshen Mishpat, 22:8"
I dont see anything there,
T
ReplyDelete