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For some reason by Chasidim they have a sensitivity against early Shabbos, maybe its too ba'al batish. ( I don't necessarily agree with that line; there are Halachic issues - HR) In the attachment I have a story of a chossid who explained the benefits of early Shabbos, how pragmatic it is, and the Gerrer Rebbe approved it! He was always on the pragmatic side; as one Rov who asks to remain nameless eloquently put it, if not for his (The Gerrer Rebbe's - HT) beard with the Kultenes and his banged up hat, they would make him in to a reformer.. the levush saved the day. In the other attachment you see the back of the Matzieva of the Darkei Tshuva's mother, look at the way they call her Savta Kadisha.. I always knew Savta to be be modern Hebrew... even in Munkatch the קליפה had a grip...
ערכין דף יט עמוד א
ReplyDeleteאמר חזקיה אמרי אינשי סבא בביתא פאחא בביתא סבתא בביתא סימא בביתא
חסידים האבן א סענסיטיוויטעט צו פרי שבת? מ'זאגט נאך אז ביים צמח צדיק פלעגט די זון אריינשיינען אין בעכער פרייטאג צונאכטס.
ReplyDeleteHirshel
ReplyDeleteI was told lately by someone that their is teshuva of the baal hatnye against Early Shabos , in his sefer shu"t, I did not check it yet..
Savta isn't modern, Rahi brings it in Chumash by parshas Erchin from Chazal, savta bbeisa..
ReplyDeleteAnon
ReplyDelete90% of Hebrew is in the Chumash abd Tnach, but if it was not used in the last 1000 years in the seforim, then it becomes modern, you will never find in a teshuva sefer etc... calling a grandma savta. I know that chazal call it that way and even rashi al hatorah, but that does not count, opposite they are all the source for Modern Hebrew
where is the Munkatch jpg?
ReplyDeleteJust to clear up some of the contributor's facts: The Darkei Tshuva's mother was Chaya Frima Rivka Ehrblich (RML Sasosver's granddaughter) and predeceased her husband at a young age.
ReplyDeleteConversely, Esther Horowitz (a Ropshitzer einikel) was the Darkei Tshuva's Rebbetzin, and quite an old woman when she died Pesach 1929. She still remembered her grandfather R. Leizer from Dzikov d. 1860 well. Many Munkatcher chasidim who passed away during the last few years remembered her well.
This inscription, as the acronyms indicate, is from the back of her matzeiva.
So in her case - Savta - connoting an older woman - is quite appropriate; unlike the Modern Hebrew usage for a forty-year-old grandmother.
Anon
ReplyDeleteyou are 100% correct, but in Munkach they should off be more cautious and sensitive, Mishim Harchek Min Hakiour Vedoima Loi
They needed a word starting with a Samech .
ReplyDeleteFYI: This woman had one single solitary grandchild. The ME was an only child, and he had only one daughter - Frima.
ReplyDeleteregarding the chasidic negative view on early Shabos, I saw in Shu"t Admor Hazoken, that he writes some items that are Acshor Doro, and he lists the early Mariv.It seems that he was against it, and he was happy that it changed for the better.
ReplyDelete"you will never find in a teshuva sefer etc"
ReplyDeletefactually incorrect, it is used in teshuva seforim and halacha seforim throughout the generations.
post back if you need proof.
it pays to actually know stuff before you comment
Having Fun
ReplyDeleteAderaba, I would like to see seforim of the last 200 years calling a Bube savta.