I wouldn't say it as bad as that, but at least the Dzikover didn't feel the need to invent cockamanie 'peshotim' to explain themselves. I don't know how anybody can justify a belief in an infallible Rebbe after seeing what he wrote about this topic. He may have had many great points and things to learn from, but infallibility is incompatible with התורה על הרוב תדבר and so on. (And the Ramban has nothing to do with this כמובן לכל מי שיש לו מח בקדקדו)
Someone told the Kotzker Rebbe "Rebbe, everybody is stepping on me" He answered, "Don't spread yourself out so much, nobody will step on you". If a person who essentially respects the Lubavitcher Rebbe and his contributions to Judaism and his personal ma'alos, but cannot accept the idea of his infallibility based on his own written statements (not mikva stories), is considered a hater and spewing filth, you obviously have your demands too high. Not believing that the Rebbe (or anyone else) is Tzadik HaDor is not an expression of hate.
Heshy, you know when you post something about not sleeping in the sukka you"ll get passionate responses, which may again not go over easily with your average lubavitcher or yourself, right? So why do it? Any objective person who has a decent backround in yeshiva knows that the lubavitch position vis a vis not sleeping in yeshiva is weak, so why bring it up, if you will complain about haters, menagdim etc???
Yankel "but at least the Dzikover didn't feel the need to invent cockamanie 'peshotim' to explain themselves." why did the Dzhikover not feel the need? was the Shulchan orech, not even a number that he has to relate to? Why are you maligning with your great ignorance a Rebbe a kedoish elyon, and a real tzadik hadoir, for trying to get his minhag to go as close possible with shulchan Orech? are the Rebbes of Belz,Plonch, Shendishev and Stuchin, better off for not even trying to be on the path of Shulchan Orech? It has nothing to do with the Rebbe being infallible, it is just your hate for the Rebbe that is Mavir Oischoi Midatoich and Daas Konoich
Yankel "I don't know how anybody can justify a belief in an infallible Rebbe after seeing what he wrote about this topic" The Rebbe was probably the only rebbe in the history of chasidus, that established a platform where his torah should be discussed, and chasidim should ask questions. Multiple times he was talking with pain to chasidim for not asking the obvious question on his chidushim. Other times he was answering the questions that were printed in the Kovtzim. Your hatred has no base, you are a ignorant ferd. Instead of hollering like a ferd, lets see your comments on the holy words of the Tzadik Hadoirois
Not that my opinion matters for anyone except me but for me it is obvious that anyone who after reading the Rebbe's sicha explaining the chabad custom not to sleep in sukkah continues to speak against the Rebbe on this topic is either dumb or wicked who does not care about truth.
Dovid, you have to take off your shoes and ask mechila by some ohel, I am not sure which one. How dare you call it weak when the Lubavitcher Chassidim say it isn't? When a person sticks up for his Rebbe, thinking he is showing his 'bitul', he is really sticking up for himself. 'I' have a Rebbe and he is great because he is 'my' Rebbe. In fact, 'my' Rebbe is Moshiach because he is 'mine'. ANyone who attacks 'my' Rebbe is an apikoress. This is another way of saying 'I am the most important person in the world and an attack against me is an attack against the world'.
there seems to be a very big misunderstanding about lubavitch not sleeping in the succa, first of all lubavitch never slept in the succa (it didn't start after the mitiler rebbe said that succa is makifin dibina) im not sure the exact reason that lubavitch doesn't sleep in the succa but its a minhag that alot of chassidim follow. when the rebbe said the sicha about not sleeing in the succa it wasn't the reason for the minhag, it was just to find a heter according to halacha for the minhag. so yes as some commenters pointed out that its a shvacha svera, this is true the whole point was just to find a HETER in halacha for the minhag. the same is true with שלש סעודות with all the pilulim that the rebbe said about why lubavitch doesn't do it, those were all to find a moker in halacha not the reason for the minhag
Listen here yankel, the story you quote is from the tzemach tzedek and your analogy is completely out of line. The reason you are being labeled as a hater, is not because of the fact that you disagree with chabad, but its how you disagree. You rarely make an argument based on the merits of the issue , but instead you just resort to verbal tirades that are disrespectful to say the least. Two things are very obvious in your posts. You defend everyone else other than chabad , who does not eat in the sukka, and reserve all your venom for chabad. Your reference to cockamanie peshotim, proves that you are a hater and you have no interest in the truth and lack any objectivity, whatsoever. This is the reason most people dont want to see your filth and venom on this board. Now I will address the issue itself , for the sake of the readers, since it is clear that you do not seek the truth. The chabad heter of metzaer according to shulchon oruch, does not eliminate the mitzva of sleeping in the sukka for all persons. Therefore, it is not a blanket exemption, it is a very limited one. Since chabad chassidim are in tzaaar from the fact that they do not want to be different from the rebbe , that tzaar will exempt all the chabad chassidim who follow in the footsteps of the chabad rebbes. Just like for example all people would get an allergic reaction from sleeping in the sukka would be exempt, so does anyone who is metzaer for other reasons. The exemption is applied to a class of people, and not as an elimination of the mitzva itself. Therefore, yankel who is a true misnaged, would be obligated even according to chabad, to sleep in the sukka, because yankel the misnaged is not capable of having the same tzaar as a chosid. Its very simple.
Level headed Yankel and his ilk will only spew their hate on a Rebbe that the shulchan orech was too important to ignore, vs the other rebbes who did not even blink a eye, when their way of life differed from the shulchan orech As you see from Minhag Belz, Stuchin,Shendishev Plonch Zhikev etc... The Rebbe went in the path of the Kozhiglover and the Munkacher who wrote lots of teshuvas to match chasidic minhogim with shulchan orech, But from all the above the Rebbe is the only one picked on by Kalban Dechatzifen...
I am sorry, but every chassidus has a group of yungeleit who are paid to find mekoros that their minhagim are the best and to find mareh mekomos to be mattir their stuff. It is not a Lubavitcher specialty. Skver found a kesav yad on their hallel erev pesach with a berocho and satmar found a Reb Shlomo Kluger about the Kosel having no Kedusha. I was twice hired by a chassidus for their political pesakim. A person can make fun of a pesak without disrespect to the person saying it. I did not make fun of the Lubavutcher Rebbe, only of something that he said. The Ra'avad did not lack respect for the Rambam, neither the Bach for the Sema or the Shach for the Taz. The sharp expressions were only on the point that they made, not on the person.
Yankel "I am sorry, but every chassidus has a group of yungeleit who are paid to find mekoros that their minhagim are the best and to find mareh mekomos to be mattir their stuff. " So in Lubavich they hired the Rebbe himself? and in Kozhiglov they hired the Kozhiglover himself. Was Reb Yoel sirkus (Bach) hired by all ashkenazic jews for the ......Heter on Chodesh? Was Reb Moshe hired by some childless families? What a Ferd
The recent memoir "faith and flight" by mr. Feinzeig details the pravving of shalosh seudos and the singing of heartfelt zemiros by pre dor hashvii lubavitcher chasidim. The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע. The sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly. I find it surprising when I read of any kehila that now makes a minhag out of it.
ent memoir "faith and flight" by mr. Feinzeig details the pravving of shalosh seudos and the singing of heartfelt zemiros by pre dor hashvii lubavitcher chasidim. The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע. The sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly. I find it surprising when I read of any kehila that now makes a minhag out of it.
Not a Harry "The sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly." think about it, Ropshitz was a chasidus that the biggest avoda was based on the Sukkah,I think Zera Kodesh has the most torah on Sukahs,and all Rebbes stemming from Ropshitz, did not sleep in sukkah, and ridiculed who ever wanted to sleep in the sukkah. As it happened with Satmar ruv in Plonch.. I know your mind is full your idiotic conspiracies.... but the fact is the Malach who was no doir Hasvihi chosid did not sleep in the Sukah neither as his son testified.
Not a Harry "The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע. " What is known? that till the passing of the Rayatz, all chasidim were washing and eating sardines and gefilte fish, by the reshags Shalash Seudas, and then the rebbe woke up with a idea, to abolish shalas seudas in lubavich to steer the youths of the charismatic Resghag Is the טעם הידוע?
"The Ra'avad did not lack respect for the Rambam" Yankel the only problem is that you are no Ra'avad compared to the rebbe as the baba sali once said...
Yes indeed. IIRC, it was (also?) based on the hanhoga of his father Rav Levi Yitzchak zt"l.
In fact, I believe reading that after the heart attack on Shmini Atzeres, the Rashag's wife implored the Rebbe to rest a bit. The Rebbe replied that he had in fact not slept all sukkos..
Those who don't sleep in the sukkah perpetuate the Erev Rav who were excluded from the Ananim
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say it as bad as that, but at least the Dzikover didn't feel the need to invent cockamanie 'peshotim' to explain themselves. I don't know how anybody can justify a belief in an infallible Rebbe after seeing what he wrote about this topic. He may have had many great points and things to learn from, but infallibility is incompatible with התורה על הרוב תדבר and so on. (And the Ramban has nothing to do with this כמובן לכל מי שיש לו מח בקדקדו)
ReplyDeleteHirshel,
ReplyDeleteIf you let this filth through, I hate to think of the comments that don't make it through even your very loose standards.
Ananim and yankel need to go to the Ohel and beg for mechila.
Someone told the Kotzker Rebbe "Rebbe, everybody is stepping on me"
ReplyDeleteHe answered, "Don't spread yourself out so much, nobody will step on you".
If a person who essentially respects the Lubavitcher Rebbe and his contributions to Judaism and his personal ma'alos, but cannot accept the idea of his infallibility based on his own written statements (not mikva stories), is considered a hater and spewing filth, you obviously have your demands too high.
Not believing that the Rebbe (or anyone else) is Tzadik HaDor is not an expression of hate.
Heshy, you know when you post something about not sleeping in the sukka you"ll get passionate responses, which may again not go over easily with your average lubavitcher or yourself, right?
ReplyDeleteSo why do it?
Any objective person who has a decent backround in yeshiva knows that the lubavitch position vis a vis not sleeping in yeshiva is weak, so why bring it up, if you will complain about haters, menagdim etc???
Dovid
"cockamanie 'peshotim'"
ReplyDeleteOozing with respect.
Yankel
ReplyDelete"but at least the Dzikover didn't feel the need to invent cockamanie 'peshotim' to explain themselves."
why did the Dzhikover not feel the need? was the Shulchan orech, not even a number that he has to relate to?
Why are you maligning with your great ignorance a Rebbe a kedoish elyon, and a real tzadik hadoir, for trying to get his minhag to go as close possible with shulchan Orech?
are the Rebbes of Belz,Plonch, Shendishev and Stuchin, better off for not even trying to be on the path of Shulchan Orech?
It has nothing to do with the Rebbe being infallible, it is just your hate for the Rebbe that is Mavir Oischoi Midatoich and Daas Konoich
Yankel
ReplyDelete"I don't know how anybody can justify a belief in an infallible Rebbe after seeing what he wrote about this topic"
The Rebbe was probably the only rebbe in the history of chasidus, that established a platform where his torah should be discussed, and chasidim should ask questions.
Multiple times he was talking with pain to chasidim for not asking the obvious question on his chidushim.
Other times he was answering the questions that were printed in the Kovtzim.
Your hatred has no base, you are a ignorant ferd.
Instead of hollering like a ferd, lets see your comments on the holy words of the Tzadik Hadoirois
Not that my opinion matters for anyone except me but for me it is obvious that anyone who after reading the Rebbe's sicha explaining the chabad custom not to sleep in sukkah continues to speak against the Rebbe on this topic is either dumb or wicked who does not care about truth.
ReplyDeleteDovid, you have to take off your shoes and ask mechila by some ohel, I am not sure which one. How dare you call it weak when the Lubavitcher Chassidim say it isn't?
ReplyDeleteWhen a person sticks up for his Rebbe, thinking he is showing his 'bitul', he is really sticking up for himself. 'I' have a Rebbe and he is great because he is 'my' Rebbe. In fact, 'my' Rebbe is Moshiach because he is 'mine'. ANyone who attacks 'my' Rebbe is an apikoress. This is another way of saying 'I am the most important person in the world and an attack against me is an attack against the world'.
I am trying to find a book in Yiddish by Yehudah Leib Scneerson of Vitebsk. It may be called mein kampf. Does anyone have any information about it
ReplyDeletecockamanie 'peshotim'
ReplyDeleteJust oozing with respect.
there seems to be a very big misunderstanding about lubavitch not sleeping in the succa, first of all lubavitch never slept in the succa (it didn't start after the mitiler rebbe said that succa is makifin dibina) im not sure the exact reason that lubavitch doesn't sleep in the succa but its a minhag that alot of chassidim follow.
ReplyDeletewhen the rebbe said the sicha about not sleeing in the succa it wasn't the reason for the minhag, it was just to find a heter according to halacha for the minhag.
so yes as some commenters pointed out that its a shvacha svera, this is true the whole point was just to find a HETER in halacha for the minhag.
the same is true with שלש סעודות with all the pilulim that the rebbe said about why lubavitch doesn't do it, those were all to find a moker in halacha not the reason for the minhag
Listen here yankel, the story you quote is from the tzemach tzedek and your analogy is completely out of line. The reason you are being labeled as a hater, is not because of the fact that you disagree with chabad, but its how you disagree.
ReplyDeleteYou rarely make an argument based on the merits of the issue , but instead you just resort to verbal tirades that are disrespectful to say the least. Two things are very obvious in your posts. You defend everyone else other than chabad , who does not eat in the sukka, and reserve all your venom for chabad.
Your reference to cockamanie peshotim, proves that you are a hater and you have no interest in the truth and lack any objectivity, whatsoever.
This is the reason most people dont want to see your filth and venom on this board.
Now I will address the issue itself , for the sake of the readers, since it is clear that you do not seek the truth.
The chabad heter of metzaer according to shulchon oruch, does not eliminate the mitzva of sleeping in the sukka for all persons. Therefore, it is not a blanket exemption, it is a very limited one. Since chabad chassidim are in tzaaar from the fact that they do not want to be different from the rebbe , that tzaar will exempt all the chabad chassidim who follow in the footsteps of the chabad rebbes.
Just like for example all people would get an allergic reaction from sleeping in the sukka would be exempt, so does anyone who is metzaer for other reasons. The exemption is applied to a class of people, and not as an elimination of the mitzva itself.
Therefore, yankel who is a true misnaged, would be obligated even according to chabad, to sleep in the sukka, because yankel the misnaged is not capable of having the same tzaar as a chosid. Its very simple.
Level headed
ReplyDeleteYankel and his ilk will only spew their hate on a Rebbe that the shulchan orech was too important to ignore, vs the other rebbes who did not even blink a eye, when their way of life differed from the shulchan orech
As you see from Minhag Belz, Stuchin,Shendishev Plonch Zhikev etc...
The Rebbe went in the path of the Kozhiglover and the Munkacher who wrote lots of teshuvas to match chasidic minhogim with shulchan orech,
But from all the above the Rebbe is the only one picked on by Kalban Dechatzifen...
I am sorry, but every chassidus has a group of yungeleit who are paid to find mekoros that their minhagim are the best and to find mareh mekomos to be mattir their stuff. It is not a Lubavitcher specialty. Skver found a kesav yad on their hallel erev pesach with a berocho and satmar found a Reb Shlomo Kluger about the Kosel having no Kedusha. I was twice hired by a chassidus for their political pesakim.
ReplyDeleteA person can make fun of a pesak without disrespect to the person saying it. I did not make fun of the Lubavutcher Rebbe, only of something that he said. The Ra'avad did not lack respect for the Rambam, neither the Bach for the Sema or the Shach for the Taz. The sharp expressions were only on the point that they made, not on the person.
How much do you charge?
DeleteYankel
ReplyDelete"I am sorry, but every chassidus has a group of yungeleit who are paid to find mekoros that their minhagim are the best and to find mareh mekomos to be mattir their stuff. "
So in Lubavich they hired the Rebbe himself? and in Kozhiglov they hired the Kozhiglover himself.
Was Reb Yoel sirkus (Bach) hired by all ashkenazic jews for the ......Heter on Chodesh?
Was Reb Moshe hired by some childless families?
What a Ferd
The recent memoir "faith and flight" by mr. Feinzeig details the pravving of shalosh seudos and the singing of heartfelt zemiros by pre dor hashvii lubavitcher chasidim. The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע.
ReplyDeleteThe sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly.
I find it surprising when I read of any kehila that now makes a minhag out of it.
ent memoir "faith and flight" by mr. Feinzeig details the pravving of shalosh seudos and the singing of heartfelt zemiros by pre dor hashvii lubavitcher chasidim. The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע.
ReplyDeleteThe sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly.
I find it surprising when I read of any kehila that now makes a minhag out of it.
Not a Harry
ReplyDelete"The sukka wasn't slept in by many people of all persuasions in Europe due to the cold or not being able to be מקיים, oneg yontiv properly."
think about it,
Ropshitz was a chasidus that the biggest avoda was based on the Sukkah,I think Zera Kodesh has the most torah on Sukahs,and all Rebbes stemming from Ropshitz, did not sleep in sukkah, and ridiculed who ever wanted to sleep in the sukkah. As it happened with Satmar ruv in Plonch..
I know your mind is full your idiotic conspiracies.... but the fact is the Malach who was no doir Hasvihi chosid did not sleep in the Sukah neither as his son testified.
Didn't the rebbe stay awake for the entire sukkos in order not to sleep chutz lesukkah?
ReplyDeleteNot a Harry
ReplyDelete"The 3rd seuda was abolished in lubavitch upon the passing of the Rayatz. מפני טעם הידוע. "
What is known?
that till the passing of the Rayatz, all chasidim were washing and eating sardines and gefilte fish, by the reshags Shalash Seudas, and then the rebbe woke up with a idea, to abolish shalas seudas in lubavich to steer the youths of the charismatic Resghag
Is the טעם הידוע?
"The Ra'avad did not lack respect for the Rambam" Yankel the only problem is that you are no Ra'avad compared to the rebbe as the baba sali once said...
ReplyDelete@La Jolla
ReplyDeleteYes indeed. IIRC, it was (also?) based on the hanhoga of his father Rav Levi Yitzchak zt"l.
In fact, I believe reading that after the heart attack on Shmini Atzeres, the Rashag's wife implored the Rebbe to rest a bit. The Rebbe replied that he had in fact not slept all sukkos..
Why don't all you amei ha'aratzim check shulchan aruch harav regarding sholosh seudois?
ReplyDelete