How in the world do they get so many people to show up? Was it the free donuts?
Speaking of which, when I was growing up, donuts on Chanuka was a tziyoinishe thing. Real jews ate latkes. Oy, there's no such thing as a real jew anymore.
Did you notice the dig at Shulem Foigel? Who ever said that Neginna was an ikkar in chassidus? It was maybe an ikkar in organized 'party' chassidus, but in the avidas H-Shem of Chassidus, as far as I have seen in various chassidishe seforim, it is not mentioned. Not in Noam Elimelech, not in Kedushas Levi, not in Likutei Maharan etc. I suspect it became an ikkar when it was decided to make chassidus into a conservative movement and not a radical one. Just like it was decided then to keep ancient traditions, recipes etc. just because they were old, so too they decided to remember old songs and tunes just because. It was a method of keeping society traditional when chassidus evolved into that route.
That doesn't make it an ikkar. They liked singing and had a hisorerus from it, so they made nigunim for their pleasure and benefit. That does not make it an important part or indeed any part of chassidus.
Reb Bronstein is a son in Law of R. Hershel Reichman, pioneer of teaching Chasidis at YU. Reb Weinberger wasn't the first to try to undermine YU's mesorah!
Chulent: Word on the street is that "Hershele's" father is a formerly [insert a nice word for bummy here] KJ boy who married a Hungarian giores (aka Hershele's mother), had said child, subsequently decided to get all holy and religious. Divorced. Remarried. Davens in Skolen. Is a bit of a nut. And the ex (the aforementioned giores of Hungarian decent), dropped yiddishkeiot and moved in with a Chinese goy (that may or may not make really good sushi -- I've heard differing opinions on that matter), and the poor Hirshele may be exposed to the world of lettering that looks like pick-up-sticks. And since the dad is not really seen as quality dad material, the plan is that (should they somehow get custody away from the mother)a third-party family will take in the potential future Rashkebeha"g Hershele (not to be confused with the Hershele of Tzig fame).
ידוע תורת הבעש'ט שחזר רבינו הזקן בשם הרב המגיד ' כל בעלי השיר יוצאין בשיר כו' ' . זה מה שעולה בזכרוני כעת, ובוודאי יש עוד ועוד. וראה ההקדמה לספר הניגונים. ובין כך ובין כך, שווייג
I am not getting it, why did the Yetev Lev bring a nigun of reb Hirshele Rimonever? was it not the hikashrus to Rimonev that he felt? what is Reb Yoelish explanation? what makes Reb Yoelish a maven on chasiduss, he was never Really by no rebbe? why did he ridicule and verbally abuse the Belzer chosid??? maybe he knew what he did not know? he probably send him money later to apologize...
Who is the rav that speaks before Reb Mayer Twersky? why does he scream like that? was his derosha not a insult for Atara Twersky who does not cover her hair?
Regarding Neginah and Chassidus - do our homework, shall we? A 265(!) page sefer was recently compiled on this topic, and I'm sure there's plenty other such likkutim
see here http://www.chish.co.il/product.asp?productid=527
Menaged- he meant Yossel Yartschever? Anonymous 8:16 - When my rebbe in cheder said שווייג I took it as seriously. Are you claiming that vertlach make reality? Yes, they said a vertel about singing. If they did not explain or tell you that it is an ikkar, you may rest assured that it isn't. Menaged - is feeling mekushar to Reb Hersh an ikkar in chassidus? He felt comfortable singing traditional songs and acting traditionally. It is often hard for people to adapt to different circumstances and they feel comfortable not changing. Afterwards, in some cases, their comfort becomes a shitta and they start measuring right and wrong according to the yardstick of their comfort. But that is not only a Satmar problem as we see on this blog.
Yankel: the cost i quoted was that every aliya to a higher level is with a nigun. There are way more tora's about nigunim from then, if u really want u can see in the cherems of the misnagdim. The emphasis on nigunim was one of their issues with chasidus. Shveig BC u don't know what you're saying, i suspect u didn't go to a normal cheder and have a normal melamed, cuz if u did, u would know better
Yankel " Are you claiming that vertlach make reality? Yes, they said a vertel about singing." where does the vertlech come here? The belzer chosid who was in Belz in the court of yoshvim bnie aliyah who were breathing Belz 24/7 told him that there was certain nigunim sung for 80 years in Belz and all the chasidim knew that it was from Mezrich.. comes now a guy(mr know it all)who was for one shabos in Belz, in his mood of belittling chasidus as usual, that nobody really knew etc....
Yankel "is feeling mekushar to Reb Hersh an ikkar in chassidus?" In matter of fact, in satmar, being mekusher to rebbes from earlier genaration is a big "IKAR" go read his toras on simchas torah....
Let's have your comments on these stories! Links? Links? That's for Deri.
ReplyDeleteאיפה הערשעלע?
ReplyDeleteHow in the world do they get so many people to show up? Was it the free donuts?
Speaking of which, when I was growing up, donuts on Chanuka was a tziyoinishe thing. Real jews ate latkes.
Oy, there's no such thing as a real jew anymore.
Did you notice the dig at Shulem Foigel?
ReplyDeleteWho ever said that Neginna was an ikkar in chassidus? It was maybe an ikkar in organized 'party' chassidus, but in the avidas H-Shem of Chassidus, as far as I have seen in various chassidishe seforim, it is not mentioned. Not in Noam Elimelech, not in Kedushas Levi, not in Likutei Maharan etc. I suspect it became an ikkar when it was decided to make chassidus into a conservative movement and not a radical one. Just like it was decided then to keep ancient traditions, recipes etc. just because they were old, so too they decided to remember old songs and tunes just because. It was a method of keeping society traditional when chassidus evolved into that route.
Yankel
ReplyDeleteshaychus, ikkar, or yesod or derech, which one is it or isn't it?
what about the Maggid or the Alter Rebbe? there are nigunnim from them.
it's a shvache raya
That doesn't make it an ikkar. They liked singing and had a hisorerus from it, so they made nigunim for their pleasure and benefit. That does not make it an important part or indeed any part of chassidus.
ReplyDeletebut it's a derech? it has shaychus? it's meyused in Chassidus?
ReplyDeleteReb Bronstein is a son in Law of R. Hershel Reichman, pioneer of teaching Chasidis at YU. Reb Weinberger wasn't the first to try to undermine YU's mesorah!
ReplyDeletewhats the hersheleh story?
ReplyDeleteSomething about the mother become a freyak.who knows more?
Chulent:
ReplyDeleteWord on the street is that "Hershele's" father is a formerly [insert a nice word for bummy here] KJ boy who married a Hungarian giores (aka Hershele's mother), had said child, subsequently decided to get all holy and religious. Divorced. Remarried. Davens in Skolen. Is a bit of a nut. And the ex (the aforementioned giores of Hungarian decent), dropped yiddishkeiot and moved in with a Chinese goy (that may or may not make really good sushi -- I've heard differing opinions on that matter), and the poor Hirshele may be exposed to the world of lettering that looks like pick-up-sticks.
And since the dad is not really seen as quality dad material, the plan is that (should they somehow get custody away from the mother)a third-party family will take in the potential future Rashkebeha"g Hershele (not to be confused with the Hershele of Tzig fame).
ידוע תורת הבעש'ט שחזר רבינו הזקן בשם הרב המגיד ' כל בעלי השיר יוצאין בשיר כו' ' . זה מה שעולה בזכרוני כעת, ובוודאי יש עוד ועוד. וראה ההקדמה לספר הניגונים. ובין כך ובין כך, שווייג
ReplyDeleteI am not getting it,
ReplyDeletewhy did the Yetev Lev bring a nigun of reb Hirshele Rimonever?
was it not the hikashrus to Rimonev that he felt?
what is Reb Yoelish explanation?
what makes Reb Yoelish a maven on chasiduss, he was never Really by no rebbe?
why did he ridicule and verbally abuse the Belzer chosid??? maybe he knew what he did not know? he probably send him money later to apologize...
yankel
ReplyDeletehe did not mean foigel, he meant gaboim in belz of RYD...
Who is the rav that speaks before Reb Mayer Twersky? why does he scream like that? was his derosha not a insult for Atara Twersky who does not cover her hair?
ReplyDeleteIt was refreshing to hear the Besht hakodesh quote from the holy father the holy Tolner
ReplyDeleteRegarding Neginah and Chassidus - do our homework, shall we?
ReplyDeleteA 265(!) page sefer was recently compiled on this topic, and I'm sure there's plenty other such likkutim
see here http://www.chish.co.il/product.asp?productid=527
Menaged- he meant Yossel Yartschever?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 8:16 - When my rebbe in cheder said שווייג I took it as seriously. Are you claiming that vertlach make reality? Yes, they said a vertel about singing. If they did not explain or tell you that it is an ikkar, you may rest assured that it isn't.
Menaged - is feeling mekushar to Reb Hersh an ikkar in chassidus? He felt comfortable singing traditional songs and acting traditionally. It is often hard for people to adapt to different circumstances and they feel comfortable not changing. Afterwards, in some cases, their comfort becomes a shitta and they start measuring right and wrong according to the yardstick of their comfort. But that is not only a Satmar problem as we see on this blog.
Yankel: the cost i quoted was that every aliya to a higher level is with a nigun. There are way more tora's about nigunim from then, if u really want u can see in the cherems of the misnagdim. The emphasis on nigunim was one of their issues with chasidus.
ReplyDeleteShveig BC u don't know what you're saying, i suspect u didn't go to a normal cheder and have a normal melamed, cuz if u did, u would know better
Yankel
ReplyDelete- he meant Yossel Yartschever?"
he was no gabai in belz
Yankel
ReplyDelete" Are you claiming that vertlach make reality? Yes, they said a vertel about singing."
where does the vertlech come here?
The belzer chosid who was in Belz in the court of yoshvim bnie aliyah who were breathing Belz 24/7 told him that there was certain nigunim sung for 80 years in Belz and all the chasidim knew that it was from Mezrich.. comes now a guy(mr know it all)who was for one shabos in Belz, in his mood of belittling chasidus as usual, that nobody really knew etc....
Yankel
ReplyDelete"is feeling mekushar to Reb Hersh an ikkar in chassidus?"
In matter of fact, in satmar, being mekusher to rebbes from earlier genaration is a big "IKAR"
go read his toras on simchas torah....