In the latest issue there are Zichronos from Reb Mendel Novikov, a Chossid who passed away in Eretz Yisroel in 5703.
He writes: In 5699 Reb Levik Schneerson (later of) Yekatrinoslav stayed with me at one אכסניא in Lubavitch for Yom Tov (Shavuous). He ate the Yom Tov meals at the Rebbe's house. upon his return he told me that he had asked the Rebbe when was the Yohrtzeit of the Baal Shem Tov? The Rebbe replied on the first day of YomTov.
Reb Levik proceeded to ask "If so, then according to Halacha Goyim would need to be the ones to dig the grave, boil the water, and do all other neccessary work. Can we say that the holy Baal Shem Tov was buried by Goyim?" The Rebbe replied: "הבעש"ט לא הי' נצרך לשום התעסקות וממילא מובן שלא התעסקו בו שום אנשים רק... וד"ל
The Baal Shem Tov was buried by....
Do other groups that have the mesorah as it being on Yom Tov Sheni also mention this?
Do they believe this?
Is this why they say that he was Niftar on Yom Tov Sheni, so as not to be compelled to say that he wasn't buried by humans?
The "belief" in the Besh"t just isn't there in other circles. Believing that the Besht was buried by Malochim or G-d is too much to handle. I can only imagine what the Misnagdim would've said to something like that.
ReplyDeleteDid the Rashab mean this literally ? C"mon guys ! What the Rashab probably mean tot say is the following : Nu iz a kashe afa maayse !
ReplyDeleteTodays Hungarian Chasidim accord the Chasam Sofer more importance than the BESHT.
Oy vey!
ReplyDeleteso now the Rashab was a "fantasyor" too? C'mon Kurenitzer.
פארוואס קענט איר ניט גלייבען אז ס'איז פאראן העכערס אף די וועלט?
HT,
ReplyDeleteDid or did not the Rebbe Rashab accept the cherson geniza?
let's stick to the topic at hand,snag.
ReplyDeleteIt is on topic. You're the one who said, "so now the Rashab was a "fantasyor" too?"
ReplyDeleteThere's much to be said there, however comparing the 2 is simplistic at best. In regards to Chersoner Genizah you could say that Shmuel Gurary was conned into buying it, not recognizing obvious falsehoods. You could also be a believer in them. Nobody's forcing you to confirm or deny a document's authenticity. A story of the Baal Shem Tov that he was Mekabel from the previous Rabbeyim is different, no matter how fantastic or sensational it may seem.
ReplyDeleteGo snags,
ReplyDeleteLubavitcher have been brought up on bobbeh mayses with mom's milk.Ever read the fantastical Harry Potters book from the Rayatz?
Lubabs don't even know what 'fact' means
noti gaverial has a long essay on the yor tzhiet of the besht wsith letters from many admorim
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteYou sound "very intelligent." Why not try to be respectful, and then we can have a dialogue.
Just a minor point:
ReplyDeleteChasidim cannot even get their act straight about a very simple 'fact'.When did the Ba'al Shem Tov pass away(First OR SECOND DAY shvuos)AND they expect to be taken seriously about their fanciful stories.Yeah, right!
Hirshel, since you are obviously incapable of any torah thought, your litle 'mayseleh' will have to do as a psuedo dvar torah.
HT,
ReplyDeleteI think it's time to admit that TA has a valid point. You should disallow anonymous posts and begin maintaining a certain level of dialogue.
I don't know about that, CE. I think what anon does is show the world who our detractors are.
ReplyDeleteWhere are your detractors?............
ReplyDeleteJust answer the the question.You chasidim cannot even get the Besh'ts yahrtzeit right and you want regular folks to believe your bobbeh maysehs .Answer the question.
We Chassidim can get it right, I suspect that the others changed the date because it sounded too sensational to say what the Rebbe Rashab said.
ReplyDeleteAnd if (gasp) they had goyim work on the kevura, so what?
ReplyDeleteI guess the Rebbe didn't like that idea. Nisht Umzinst did they have a Gorel after the Maggid's Petirah who would do the Taharah. and ditto that for why the Alter Rebbe was Zocheh to the head.
ReplyDeleteLol.From what 'fact' book did you get the detail about who did tahara.The partisan Harry Potter one?.What else did you expect the book say.....
ReplyDeleteThe same "fact book" that says that there a man in Vilna named Eliyohu ben Shlomo Zalman who passed away on 19 Tishrei 5599.
ReplyDeleteI love watching these Litvishe Apikorsim laugh at anything Ruchni.
ReplyDeleteNisht Umzinst did Tzadikimm say that when you cut open the heart of a Misnaged you'll find a Tzeylem. Did they really mean that? Are Misnagdim X-tians?, no.
ReplyDeleteBut what they did mean was that Misnagdim laugh at Mofsim etc. but what they really mean to say is that they do not REALLY believe in the Torah either.
If you call misnagdim tzeilem kep, maybe some people will call you people Yoshke kep or Kristlicher kep since you also believe in a toiten Moshiach.
ReplyDeleteAh - di ahavas Yisroel do iz azoi shtark un geshmak.....
ReplyDeleteanonymous
ReplyDelete1) I didn't call them "tzeilem kep", I said in hartz ligt a Tzeilem
2) It's not my vort
3) I said that I can understand where the vort is coming from.
4) Laughing at Sipurei Tzadikei emes is tantamount to kf----
G-d forbid somebody should laugh at a story of the Chazon Ish or even Reb Chaim Kanievski, see what anonymous will do then.
ReplyDeleteIt is mentioned elsewhere that "הבעש"ט קבר את עצמו"
ReplyDeleteAnon-
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should take issue with the fact that the Jewish religion argues about what order to put the parshiyos in the tefillin. Think about it, Moshe Rabbeinu himself wore tefillin, and we don't know if it was Rashi or Rabbenu Tam. Or, for that matter, whether the Torah was given on the sixth or seventh day of Sivan, v'kaheina rabbos. Let's face, snags' taynos on chassidim often sound like inner doubts regarding other crucial areas of Torah, even though, of course, kol yisrael maaminim bnei maaminim.
Please don't compare your doubts to the arguments of Tanoyim and Amoroyim.
ReplyDeleteHT- "I didn't call them "tzeilem kep", I said in hartz ligt a Tzeilem".
ReplyDeleteOh - a grayser chiluk......antshuldikt mir....
Tzeilem was not literal, just a figure of speech.
ReplyDelete"Tzeilem was not literal, just a figure of speech."
ReplyDeleteChicago - you wanna buy a bridge near Crown Heights ?
it's not a Lubavitcher Vort, it shtams from the Munkatcher Rov - The Minchas Elozor.
ReplyDeleteI never heard such words in Lubavitch.
ReplyDelete