(Art by Zalman Kleinman O"H)
The Frierdiger Rebbe in Sichos of 5702 tells of 5 times that his father the Rebbe Rashab asked "פארוואס"? One of those times was at a Farbrengen on Yud Tes Kislev 5653 where a Chossid said Lechayim and added that "The Zchus of the Baal Hasimchah zol af unz maygen zein. The Rebbe Rashab turned to him and asked Farvos?! The same thing happened on Purim 5670 in Menton, when the Chosid Reb Yaakov Horvitz of Riga mentioned the AR and said "Z'chusey Yogein Oleynu," the Rebbe asked Farvos?!
The RR saw this Ma'amar HoEylom as he saw many other things differently than the rest of the Chasdishe world , namely that you don't just get something for nothing, and even when offered טאר מען ניט נעמען. The Rebbe does not need to be "Maygen" on you just because you asked for it, you need to work at it, and be deserving of it. A similar lesson is learned from a Chossid who took some Shrayim from the RR's plate. The Rebbe said " מיין שריים איז מחייב, נישט מזכה " you don't just get Hashpo'es because you grabbed some food off my plate.
I questioned a respected Mashpia how this "jives" with the conventional wisdom that Chabad today gets a "free ride" just because מ' האלט זיך ביי די קליאמקע and other catch phrases, as if the Rebbe will vouch for all us as being good guys. He said that messages like that are "misconstrued", as are other such "catch phrases", by those who wish to have a free ride and take it easy in life. For them just calling yourself a "Chabadnik", and davening Nusach Ari - AR is enough for them to get a free pass. This is part of the "Peylishification" of Chabad, and in many cases, they "outPeylish' the Peylisher themselves.
In the words of one of the Rabbeyim, " מען טאר נישט זיין קיין בעטלער " , or "NO BEGGARS ALLOWED"! You need to work hard, HUREVE, and then you'll get something for your efforts.
Was that clear enough?
Where did you see that "betler" phrase?
ReplyDeletein the sicha.
ReplyDeleteIn the sichos of 5710 the Rebbe did mention the Zchoso Yogen oleinu, but he changed the translation. Is that a contradiction?
ReplyDeleteYasher kayach. Zayer gut. Nice to see the Litvish side of Lubavitch here.
ReplyDeleteRe the "Peylishification" of Chabad - nice expression there - "and in many cases, they "outPeylish' the Peylisher themselves" - ich hob asach hano'oh fun di alleh verter. Lay aleynu there has been a similar process by some of the 'Litvishe' 'Yeshivishe' velt in recent years as well. It's time to try to go back to the old ways.
P.S. Welcome back Kurenitzer ! You were missed. But I am happy to see that you have made tashlumin in the form of new comments on threads you missed during your absence.
Very well done! Keep up the good work. The message will make a roishem...
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how Chabad has been "Peylishfied", not that I disagree with you. Can anybody bring some more examples?
ReplyDeleteCurious,
ReplyDelete1)The whole Rebbe Chosid relationship for one. That changed with Rebbe.
2) Moyfsim (Irefuse to say mayfsem since I'm not russian born)the moyfsim sickness (embelishments, exagerations) in some parts of Chabad is a huge turnoff.
oich mir
ReplyDeleteThe moyfsim thing is a bit out of hand, but I didn't know that was a turn-off. But please explain what you mean by the "Rebbe-Chossid" relationship, if anything the Rebbe was less accessible than his predecessors, no?
HT,
ReplyDeleteTell me honestly - do you really want the AR's Avodas Atzmo path? All alone in the world... no help from others?
I doubt it, and that's why Chabad DID change to the more Paylisher method.
Chagas
ReplyDeleteIt's not me who wants, it's the Rabbeyim, and the Rebbe was no different.
Curious, When your given a load of bull you get turned off.
ReplyDelete2)"if anything the Rebbe was less accessible than his predecessors, no?" That's not the point. The point is the fargettering fun Rebben is a totally new phenomenon.
Oich
ReplyDeleteI wish you'd stop using that term, the point can be made without it too.
However, that in and of itself is not what differentiates between Chabad and Peylin. The Rebbe could be the greatest but how that does that help me if I need to hureve on my own to achieve.
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteThe last two Rabbeim WERE different. And you can't honestly deny that there was a change in attitudes with each generation - unless you've lost your compass.
The Chabad maysas we learned in the mosdei Chabad that I attended had little to do with the modern-day Chabad. This entire concept of bittul far'n Rebbin changed drastically by the Frierdiker Rebbe and more so by our Rebbe.
Ask Kurenitzer and he'll support my statement on thi smatter.
And chill it on the anti-paylishisms.
ReplyDeleteLubavcher Chassidim have this caricature of other chassidim and label them Paylish and ChGaS - neither of which are factual. You have decided what they believe and disagree with it, while they never believed that in the first place.
Chagas
ReplyDeleteThe point of di Rebbe is Grays and Bittul Faren rebben is all good and well and is very easily explained, but what does that have to with the basic concept of Aveydeh B'Keyach Atzmey?
DOWN WITH THE PEYLISHER!!!
ReplyDelete:)
The erosion (as I see it):
ReplyDeleteChabad chasidim are the perfect example of the amologe Peylisher/Chagas chossid (Mefsim, der Rebbe is dr ikar, Talmud Tayra is secondary to mayse...)
The Litvishe are a good example for the almolege maskil (modern views, modern look, take part in secular society)
Many Chassidic groups are good examples of the amolige Litvak (uncompromising, anti-change, anti-mysticism-for-the-masses, Talmud Tayra is of prime importance)
Bottom line: Stop convincing yourself that you represent this idea of the AR. that derech hasn't been employed in a long time.
chagas uber alles, I'm sorry your wrong to say
ReplyDelete"Bottom line: Stop convincing yourself that you represent this idea of the AR. that derech hasn't been employed in a long time."
On the whole it's not like it used to be, but it's still "employed" bt a minority.
by a minority that is.
ReplyDeleteChagas
ReplyDeleteever hear of Yeridas haDeyres? well, that's what happens everywhere, and in some places more than others. Together with the general Yeridah comes the Katnus haMeychin, which affects Chabad more than others for the simple reason that the Meychin was emplyed more than others. There are other factors, I blame the Eltere chasidim for one, for not sharing more and teaching more. They gave up on the young generation very quickly.
HT,
ReplyDeleteWhatever the reason, you can't say that the CHABAD of Lubavitch is more CHAGAS today. And we wouldn't really want it otherwise...
So, how can we keep boosting our ego with stories fun amol that are not even avoidas that we have seen, nevermind participated in?
And Oich Mir,
As the Rebbe often said... "al HaRov tidaber."
Chagas
ReplyDeletedo we speak of how it is or how it should be? Or better yet, in today's lingo: How the REBBE wants it to be?
HT,
ReplyDeleteCall it what you want. Let me ask you this, do you think Lubavitch has been sucessful in creating the product that Tomchei Temimim was designed to be?
If not, who is at fault?
How about some commentary on the matzav?
"I blame the Eltere chasidim for one, for not sharing more and teaching more. They gave up on the young generation very quickly."
ReplyDeleteThat's it?? So it's a few namless elders??
ReplyDeleteHirshel, that's a cop out.
no, it's not a cop-out, hear me out. I'm not speaking about Meshichism here. I blame the elders for not transmitting the varemkeit and geshmak of Chassidus to the younger generations. To them there was no point mit di Amerikaner Yinglech.
ReplyDeleteI don't know Hirshel, many of those elders didn't make it to the new country... But one might have thought that with all the efforts and money invested into yeshivos, Tzivos Hashem, camps, etc., we pretty much are harvesting what was planted.
ReplyDeleteWho was resposible for the direction of the mosdos? Who was responsible for building a movement from a couple hundred souls to hundreds of thosands? Why dosent it look more like it was "supposed to"??
And you want to tell me that it was because Pinye Korf and Yoel Kahn didn't try hard enough??
I'm speaking of those elders that did make it to this country. Money is not what does it. There are plenty of Chassidishe Yungeleit in the mosdos who are CLUELESS when it comes to Chinuch.
ReplyDeleteif i may it is not only teh fault of reb yoel etc. it si the fault of parents teachers mosdos etc. if o.t. u.l.y. etc. would be hiring teachers that feel for chinuch not for paychecks or waitnign in line for Shlichus and their hearts and souls are not in the yeshiva rather elsewhere (when will i get out of here) parents that are busy blaming the schools etc. (it is a mix)because as we see the harder the parents hureve on embuing their children with a chasidisher gefill un a chasidisher derher the more success they have with their children unfortunatly teh school became the secondary place for chasidishe chinuch it starts at home etc. when i grew up if my parents knew that the home of one of my class-mates had a vcr/tv in it that freind was allowed to come to MY house to play never was i alowed to step foot into their house
ReplyDeleteanonymous, choose a name please.
ReplyDeleteThe problem has become that no longer do parents need to worry at least superficially about their appearance and reputation, because it will not affect their child's chances of being accepted to Yeshivah.
I had some difficulty understanding what you wrote, but I don't think that parents in CH are worse than parents elsewhere, and other mosdos see to find a way...
ReplyDeleteThe problem can be summed up in one word; ADAPTATION. The good folks in CH realized everything has to change like swimming, sports, they just forgot one thing; The chinuch too has to adapt. Teaching Chabad principles, although still very doable, must be done differently without compromising the actual values. I see no reason why it cannot be done. If the solution is by starting new Maysdes then so be it, but the "what can we do?" approach has won time and again. Even when it comes to the circus performed in 770 everyday most people will just say "what can we do?", and theu leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteSo, the question is...
ReplyDeleteHow is it that we say can still claim that as Lubavitchers we are better than anyone else?
We have the potential to be better and when we utilize that potential we are.
ReplyDeleteGut Gezogt, but what is that worth if it is not in fact going on?
ReplyDeleteIt's a simple fact, that if "living the life" is not encouraged, seen, exemplified, or actualized around us, it wont ever happen.
Yet, we will all sit around at farbrengens a nod smilingly and nod smilingly as if we are "Chabadniks" and noone ever mentions that it isnt the case, and it hasnt been so for some time.
And not only that, but if someone speaks about these ideals in a practical way at a farbrengen they'll get shouted down with words like "dor a hasviyi" ansd the like. Or Itche Shpringer will tell them that those avodos are done, and now we have a different task, etc, etc.
Vda"l
If you wanna solve the world's problems, or at least Lubavitch's problems, that'll be kind of tough.
ReplyDeleteFind someone you look up to, and try to do the right thing.
That's hard enough
B"H
ReplyDeleteI really like your blog