Our friend SG would like to prove somehow that it needs to be א לעבעדיגער רב, maybe, maybe not. Let's preface it with a vort:
The question is why did the B'nei Yisroel make the עגל? they had Aron, Chur, and the Z'Keynim from which to choose, so why go to a calf? The answer is אז מיר ווילען משה רבנו, און אויב נישט משה איז בעסער נעמען א קעלבל , ווייל אזוי וועט מען זיך נישט איינרעדן אז ס'איז א רבי.
Today, we are witnessing the wholesale acceptance of Kelblech as Rebbes, but I doubt it's because they're so Mekusher to Moshe Rabbeinu. Now, before you accuse me of "Peylisher bias", take a poll of the average Chassidishe Yungerman and ask him what he thinks of today's Rebbes, I believe you'll hear the same from him. Are these Rebbes "Ravs" in the sense of the Mishna, I think not. Most of their people pay lip service to them and do not respect their opinion as being connected to G-d. Sure, they'll go in for a Kvitel before Rosh HaShonoh and when making a Simchah, but it's going through the motions, nothing more. Is that called a "Rav", just because he's alive?
On the flip side; A Lubavitcher Chossid (or Breslover for that matter) who lives by the Rebbe's Sichos and MaaMorim, Follows the Rebbe's Takonos, visits the Tziyun regularly, and requests that the Rebbe intercede for him when necessary, believing that the Rebbe can implore for him, does he NOT have a Rav?
I'm not saying that this is an ideal situation that we have on our hands, but does anybody have it better today?
On the flip side; A Lubavitcher Chossid (or Breslover for that matter) who lives by the Rebbe's Sichos and MaaMorim, Follows the Rebbe's Takonos, visits the Tziyun regularly, and requests that the Rebbe intercede for him when necessary, believing that the Rebbe can implore for him, can deside by him self what the rebbi whould want him to do and noone can disprove hime because the rebbi is not with us בלבוש גשמי
ReplyDeleteHas himself as his own rav
but does anybody have it better today?
ReplyDeleteSure
A viznitz,belz,stolin,solinim,zanz,tosh.......... who lives by his Rebbe's Sichos and MaaMorim, Follows his Rebbe's Takonos, visits his Rebbe's regularly, and requests that the Rebbe intercede for him when necessary, believing that the Rebbe can implore for him, does he NOT have a Rav?
take a poll of the average Chassidishe Yungerman and ask him what he thinks of today's Rebbes, I believe you'll hear the same (as above comment)from him.
Eli
ReplyDeleteStam childish posts are not appreciated. If you have something intelligent to say, please do. Otherwise האלט זיך דאס מויל
Childish=not agreeing with partisan Tzig?
ReplyDeleteYou realize,Hirshel, that you have twisted yourself in knots just to justify the very childish behaviour of most Lubavitchers, who either claim that the Rebbe IS alive, or that with the 'Igros' charade you don't need the Rebbe because you have even easier 'access' today.
and because there is no need for a living leader and believe that they have a "living leader" in the most literal sense of word...they have the circus arena and shows they produce from time to time (see last night's "ahavas yisroel" behavious by those who believe that they have a "living" leader).
ReplyDeleteThe distinction between what I believe the original poster (SG?) was saying and the concept Hirshel is talking about is simple: Of course everyone needs a lebediger rov with whom to consult etc., and this is something the Rebbe told (begged?) the Chassidim to do many times (using the words "asay lecha rav") - most notably in the famous 'cheshbono shel olam' sicha. This should be a davar haposhut for any observant Jew. The concept of Rav/Rebbe expounded by Hirshel, on the other hand, should not be a contradiction to the former. A rav muvhak (as I saw in one of RJBS's seforim - v'hasvara nosenes) is one according to whose teachings a person lives his life. This is the concept of a Rebbe. If one has an "asay lecha (lebediger) rav" he can have a true kesher with a Rebbe even l'achar 120.
ReplyDeleteA variation on Hirshel's vort (mipi Rav Hirshprung post Gimmel-Tammuz):
ReplyDeleteOnly a cow could imagine that it can step into the shoes of a Moshe Rabeinu
HT
ReplyDeleteYOU hit the nail on the head Chassidus as a whole is exactly like the egel hazahov, a new derech to get the hashpoah of the aibishter instead of moshe rabeinu, its great to see chabad arguing with other chasidim on this board if their rebbe or another is the real goldsen calf!!!
in terms of receiving personal hadracha in avodas hashem or aitzos bmili dalmo even litvishe have it better they chotsch ask by their roshei yeshivos mashgichim. a lubab that needs personal advice about anything by whom does he ask.
ReplyDeleteJesus is dead and has Maamorim to follow also.
ReplyDeleteAll people follow dead people you jerk. For example the Ramnbam? The Sulchan Aruch? etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ETC ETC ETC ETC!!!!!!!
But a person still needs a LIVE HUMAN person (who is NOT moshiach) to ask eitzos and shailos to. Just to go to the grave and then say "oh the rebbe just told me etc..." is totaly retarted.
Asaey licho rav.
Stop being the "Erev Rav".
And get a life mr Tzig. You are a self hating jew who is unhappy and seriously needs a life. Stop hating the world. First it was misnagdim ....now it's all Chassidim. It's like al queida. they hate anyone who is not a terrorist. same to you. You hate anyone who is not a "believer" in your dreams.
good bye.
To all you Apikorsim who believe in hot-dog raised "Roshe Shives" like E.S. and M.K. but not in the Talmidei Baal Shem Tov;
ReplyDeleteYou can take your "religion" and stuff it. You make my decision so much easier.
Good blog,but you forgot something. While many of todays rebbe's are mediocore people , others are not for example the Toldos Avrohom Isaac rebbe and Reb M.D. of Bobov 45th.
ReplyDeleteMore importantly a series of mashopiim like Rabbonim Zilberberg, Wolfson ,Schorr, Morgenstern, Gamliel Rabinowitz and Moshe Weinberger among others (there are still others)are in fact the new ruchnisdike leaders of many Heimishe and other Jews Jews who may officially call themselves Gerer or satmarer or whatever but in fact look to these rabbis for REAL SPIRITUALITY. These men are not only massive lamdanim but also male vegadush in ruchnius including Chabad chassidus without the politics (sadly without our White Russian background too).
Please post some more old 770 photos, very enjoyable
ReplyDeleteif you choose a name, and stick with it, then maybe.
ReplyDelete