(His "Rebbe", Reb Aharon Soloveitchik, z"l,)
Photo by Yeshivas Brisk, Chicago
He says we're Poresh Min HaTzibbur
All Kiruv is done just to augment their numbers, He says, They don't have the pure, lofty goals of Aish and Or Somayach. They also disrupt others from doing any Kiruv, just ask his friend from a "small midwestern town." After all, a pure soul like himself surely tells it like it is, and all details have surely been told, right?
"And their successful Baalei Teshuva were all mainstreamed in those days. But no more." I guess that figures, since their Mashpi'im don't teach them how to.
"There is hardly ever a word ever mentioned about Lubavitch or the Rebbe in the publications like Artscroll or Feldheim the two power-house publishers of English language Judaica. There is never any mention about Lubavitch in the classroom. And in private conversations between Rebbeim and Talmidim, if it is ever mentioned at all, it is usually in a negative context." I guess it's Lubavitch's fault that Nosson Scherman chooses to ignore Lubavitch. They should do what about that?
What happens to these people? is it the air in Skokie, IL where Harry Horreved in learning that distorted his train of thought and prevented cohesive thoughts from becoming sentences? I know Reb Chaim Zimmerman certainly had nothing to do with it. Reb Aron Soloveitchik, who he conveniently disagrees with when necessary, certainly had nothing to do with it, so where?
Can you ostracize a community, degrade their Mesorah and Rabbeyim for generations, ridicule all their accomplishments, steal their ideas, and still expect them to join YOU?!
hattip: A Simple Jew
ReplyDeleteDon't you get it?
ReplyDelete1. Ridicule truth
2. Delegitimize truth
3. Write truth out of the main-stream religious expirience
Gain power and control for the Anti's.
(Replace truth with Chassidus, Lubavitch in this case. And by definition we have misnagdim... be they Litvish, Chassidis, MO, whatever).
My response on his blog:
ReplyDeleteMin HaPrat atah lomed al HaKlal:
Mr. Rabbi of MidWestern City.
Mr. Mara DeAsra of Midwesten City, who operates his shul without a Mechitza in one sanctuary and with an extremely questionable Mechitza on the other (possibly at times even with a mic, but I'm not clear on that one) has had the friendship of the local Shliach in the 16 years since he arrived. The Shliach never opened another shul, coordinated his activities so that they would not interfere, ran the Mr. Mara Deasras preschool without remuneration, and never critisized his Halachically questionable activities in private or public.
Mr. Mara Deasra's children become more snaggy, gradually drawing him to cool his relationship with the Shliach. His shul is edging towards conservative, and he fears it may be vited Conservative eventually by the board, as he has done nothing to move the shul towards frumkeit.
A group of people of a larger nearby city proven to have tremendous animosity towards Chabad, want to bring a yeshiva to his town, based on the fact that in one city in America this has revived the Orthodox community, while it has failed in all others - either they had an Orthodox community beforehand or not.
The shliach begs Mr. Mara DeAsra to desist and not cause the tremendous suffering to him that they will bring, not to mention the Chilul Hashem these particular individuals are liable to cause.
The shliach to this day has not publicly critisized Mr. Mara DeAsra. He was booted from the preschool by Mr. Mara DeAsra.
Stop the lies and spin, I beg of you.
HooHumm,
ReplyDeleteAnother day in the life of the "defenders of the faith"............
There are great reasons to be critical of Chabad, just as there are of all haredi kiruv movements, but this?
ReplyDelete"There is hardly ever a word ever mentioned about Lubavitch or the Rebbe in the publications like Artscroll or Feldheim the two power-house publishers of English language Judaica."
Artscroll "the power-house" publisher? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, oh for crying out loud, that's a good one. Why not decide who matters according to the Yated's editorial page why doesn't he?
Great post by DK on Snow and Big Aish
ReplyDeleteI do love that approach; decide that a group is out of the realm, and then criticize them for it! Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteI don’t understand you guys. Why are you debating Harry? Try getting him into a conversation in Torah and you will realize that you are debating an am haaretz. Harry rants on and on and for some reason has a large readership but in fact has the emptiest blog in the blogsphere.
ReplyDeleteam haaretz? noooo
ReplyDeleteDoesn't he have Smichah from Reb Aron Soloveitchik among others? Isn't he a "Rabbi?"
Even if he has smichah (I would be surprised) does that make him a talmid chacham? Count how many posts of his are torahdig. See how many times he posted anything of substance on Avodah. People do not realize that he is full of hot air.
ReplyDeleteThe kiruv world is happy that Lubavitchers do the kiruv that they do. Imagine if the "kiruv professionals" had to identify good prospects from scratch, instead of poaching from Lubavitchers. Wolfson would not be happy with their monthly Duc"h.
ReplyDeleteLemeh hadovor domeh, to the Yankees letting the small market teams identify the young talent, and then throwing their money selectively at the stars (in the nimshal, the "stars" are the people who will become shomrei torah umitzvos)
Chabad kiruv failed partially, because of general fails in Chabad and political chaos within. Otherwise Chabad kiruv was pretty successful. But the main issue was, that Chabad was overwhelmed, and couldn't absorb such amount, in order to preserve its stature. It eroded Chabad from withing. Does it mean kiruv should be avoided like some like Satmar can say? Wrong. But it should be done more carefully. There are always risks. But real Chasidus stands for kiruv rechoykim, that's for sure. Look in Likutey Halochoys lots on this subject.
ReplyDeleteSome info about Slavita dfus: http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/mahanaim/landoi2-1.htm
ReplyDeleteHmmm:
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you could elaborate more on a situation you seem to know about.
Who is the Rov, the Shliach, the town he speaks of? We need to know.
Thanks
Toledo, OH.
ReplyDeleteMy follow up post:
ReplyDeleteA bold faced lie?!?!?! Would you like pictures of the sanctuary used for the daily morning minyan which has no Mechitza?! THERE IS NO MECHITZA IN THE BACK!!!
The Shliach received nothing but help - up until a few years ago. Mr. Mara DeAsra received help until the very end.
The Shliach, until this controversy started, ONLY opened a Shabbos morning minyan for Russians, ONLY after discussion with Mr. Mara DeAsra, ONLY because it was on the other side of town. Now that he has effectively been booted from the shul, he had to start his own Minyonim.
Yes, wonderful Baalei Teshuva - of the Shliach!!
They want to draw a salary, teach a bit - and cause Machlokes. As they have done in the past. I mean these particular individuals, this is no generalization.
Chicago was a town with a strong Orthodox community before any Yeshiva thrived there. The only city that turned from a desert to an Orthodox community is South Bend, Indiana. All the others have failed, and failed miserably.
I call him Mr. Mara DeAsra, because he is as much a Mara DeAsra as he is a Mr. His title is Rabbi, and Mr. Harry should have stopped the superlatives which only kill his falsehood with false titles.
Your post has opened a can of worms of lies and malshinus from other commenters, motzo min es mino.
The above was posted as a comment on his blog.
ReplyDeleteLies like the ones Harry spreads do the most damage to the Chabad image in the Jewish world. Just the fact that he prints disputes like that without ever mentioning the other side should tell you where he's coming from.
ReplyDeleteHe's עתיד ליתן את הדין
You want to know what sort of person Harry Maryles is? He wrote that the day the Jews were expelled from their homes in Gaza, he would make a seudas mitzvah. That's all you need to know about him. Hibodlu miteich ho'edoh horo'oh hazeis.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is, he is bitter because everything he writes in this article about Lubavitch applies with much greater force to his own beloved "centrism", which he admits is a dying trend. His own son has abandoned his derech, and has become a black-hatter whose own children learn no limudei chol. He is proud of being one of the last of the "centrists". But, how does he put it? It has "been marginalized by mainstream Judaism". And he's angry about that. So he displaces this anger on Lubavitch.
Now you are are the Robono shel olom?
ReplyDelete"prints disputes like that without ever mentioning the other side"
ReplyDeleteAnd you never do that, huh ?
No, I'm not, if I was it wouldn't be in the עתיד, get it?
ReplyDeleteSnag:
I usually don't write about scandal, if I did I'd have much more to write about. You have to give me that. So you would be hard pressed to get me on that. I also would not write about a "certain small midwestern town", condemn the Shliach, without anybody ever knowing what we're talking about, because the town is unknown!
hmmmmmmm:
ReplyDeletewhat chilul hashem is the Yeshiva likely to cause?
Also, regarding what you write "A group of people... want to bring a yeshiva to his town, based on the fact that in one city in America this has revived the Orthodox community", l'aniyas da'ati, it has nothing to do with reviving the community, and merely to do with the fact that Toledo is centrally located between Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit.
Hmmm:
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be a losing battle. The attitude of any small-town Rabbi, who caters only to the few members of his shul, is worse than that of the most protective Shliach. He's the only one in town, even if there are thousands of Jews who never stepped into Shul, and no other Rabbi (especially Chabad!) can step foot there. If a Shliach comes and starts a beginner's Minyan then he's disrupting the Minyan! איי these Jews never stepped foot into your shul? That doesn't seem to matter. This happens everywhere!
Add to that the fact that Chabad is a fair game for anybody, and all it takes is an accusation to condemn them for all kinds of "hateful" acts, and You have Harry and his goons going on a rampage. This reminds us of the Golus and the Choshech Koful U'Mechupol that we're all in.
But of course anytime Big Aish or Or Somayach comes in to an established town where a Shliach WORKED HIS TAIL OFF for years, and siphons people away by telling them that Chabad is not "True" Judaism, that's perfectly OK.
Harry Maryles is a man with a big ego. He would like us to believe that he is an intellectual but in fact he is a crotchety man of meager knowledge. Read his posts and you would see that he only offers his opinion but can’t buttress them with facts and figures.
ReplyDeleteYou want to know what sort of person Harry Maryles is? He wrote that the day the Jews were expelled from their homes in Gaza, he would make a seudas mitzvah. That's all you need to know about him. Hibodlu miteich ho'edoh horo'oh hazeis.
ReplyDelete-----------------------------
Thanks for the information. As far as I am concerned, that puts him in the same category as the Teheran Five-and-a-Half, except that he does not have the guts to do anything other than post his brech on his blog.
It is one (wrong) thing to feel that parts of EY can be given up for "peace," whereas to rejoice at the sight of Jews being displaced is pure rishus. Even some leftists (and..shhh..some decent folks in Williamsburgh) were moved to tears by the displacement of families from their homes.
I am not getting it, I he MO or what? A MO jew would never hold a view like that.
ReplyDeleteShygetz
ReplyDeleteHarry Maryles is 'just the same' as the Neturei Karta guys who went to Teheran??
C'mon now, you being a bit harsh or you yourself a short a couple of marbles.
My last post on the subject:
ReplyDeleteI was in that shul on a morning when a woman was present, and NO MECHITZA WAS ERECTED!!! You can keep your sinah and excuses for being matir isurim, I will go back to my friends. And yes, you may now snag yourself.
We haven't even gotten to the Halachic validity of the main shul Mechitza. And I haven't even bothered to verify if a mic is actually used in some fashion at some point. It ain't worth it. You don't care if Halachah is being broken - as long as one of yours is doing it.
The Shliach in question, Rabbi Yossi Shemtov of Toledo, Ohio, and the Rabbi in question, Rabbi Ed Garsek of Congregation Etz Chayim of Toledo, had enjoyed what the Shliach thought was a warm relationship. At times the Rabbi even joked about having Rabbi Shemtov replace him, if he made Aliyah. Until one day, the Shliach finds out that the Rabbi is bringing a Yeshivah of people of not the highest caliber, among their low qualities their "hatzlacha" in promoting Machlokes, including with Chabad, to Toledo under the auspices of his Congregation.
ReplyDeleteOne would expect that in a true friendship, if a Rabbi had an idea - to bring a Yeshivah to town - he would approach his colleague and friend and discuss this. Perhaps they will bring a Yeshiva of Chabad bochurim. Perhaps they will bring a group of Kollel gentlemen who will be friendly to the both of them. Perhaps even a joint venture, a mixture of various types of rebbeim, including Chabad. Perhaps the Rabbi might think this something particular to discuss with Rabbi Shemtov, as Rabbi Shemtov has brought a Yeshiva of bochurim every summer for a few years to make Torah study available for the Toledo Jewish community.
As the Rabbi did none of this, it was quite clear to the Shliach that their friendship was over, and perhaps had never existed on the first place.
He privately discussed this with the Rabbi. He asked him, perhaps begged, not to do it. He never spoke of this publicly.
May Harry Maryles vasayato snag themselves to hell.
I was in that shul on a morning when a woman was present, and NO MECHITZA WAS ERECTED!!!
ReplyDeleteBy hashgoche protis I saw in Igros Moshe this morning that it was always the minheg in Litte that the occasional woman would enter the shul, to collect tzedokoh or to say kaddish, and nobody thought anything of it. Haloche lemayseh, he permits up to two women to be in the shul without a mechitzeh, provided that it's not done on a regular basis.
(Note that that's the second thing I read this Shabbes, that by hashgoche was related to a Circus Tent thread...)
what would you bee doing in a shul with no mechitza??The answer is quite obvious:Women don't by and large come to shul for shachris, you must've have dreamt up this episode
ReplyDeleteMaybe 'he' was the woman?
ReplyDelete