POLAND 1900's Picture postcard "Examining the Groom" - depicting the groom being examined prior to the decision whether the match is suitable. In the background are the bride and her sisters hiding behind the door and listening..
Verlag Jehudia Warschau [Warsaw]. fine condition - sides are slightly worn small stain on bottom right.
Yours for $49.99 plus S&H
It seems like the old-time Maskilim had a problem with almost every aspect of Jewish life back then, including examining the Bocher before agreeing to a Shidduch. I'm not quite sure what the problem is; after all, wouldn't you examine a horse before buying it from a pushy salesman singing its praises, so why would a husband for your daughter be any less important?
Food for thought.
(hattip: A Simple Jew)
Who said that this picture is maskilic, maybe it is just good photography, when you focus on such a rich slice of Jewish life? Why are you so easy on your comments? If you make an assumption, it will only make sense you should write so.
ReplyDeleteBesides, the real criticism (which btw is accepted in many very frum houses today) if there is, is in the fact that the only glimpse the real buyer gets (i.e. the bride) is just viewing the merchandise from a distance, and the main checking is his studies by the future in laws, as if marriage is an entrance exam to some learning institution, and not something personal between the couple.
You're right about the bride not having a chance to examine the groom for herself, but the picture is a PLAY, a PERFORMANCE by a Yiddish theater troupe. No family had a picture taken Farherring a Bocher to see whether they agree to the Shidduch!
ReplyDeletei don't think it's a photograph. it looks more like a painting.
ReplyDeleteTzig, the horse analogy is cute. ;)
Thanks, Tzib. Don't be a stranger.
ReplyDeleteIt's a picture, look closely. The lighting and makeup give it a painted look, but it's real.
I think it may very well be a picture depicting maskilim in the first place. The women look pretty modern, and other than the tilted cap, the men don't look like a mockery.
ReplyDeletewhat do maskilim have to do with anything? why is evil always lurking everywhere? this is wonderful nostalgic image...
ReplyDeleten
ReplyDeleteThe only ones who depicted these scenes were theaters and traveling performers. Mostly it was done to poke fun at the lifestyle of Frum Jews, who were still stuck in the dark ages.
You look at it as nostalgic, which it is, but I doubt it was photographed in that context.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteBalderdash! The girl DOES have a say, and let's not get all excited about the alternative methods to dating/matchmaking that have given us the worst divorce rates in history and has solved no problems anyway. I dare say that those old & backwards methods were far more successful methods and built closer relationships than what us more advanced societies have come up with.
Zezmir
ReplyDeleteMeHeichoh Teisi that the lower divorce rate comes from bad dating practices, maybe it's the fact that Divorce has become so acceptable in the secular world?
Hirshel,
ReplyDeleteDo you live in a bubble my boy? And whileit's not that the dating practices are bad per-se, the dating practices do lead to people making marriage decisions with their priorities all screwy.
Hirshel Tzig - you didn't understand what it is. It is a postcard! And I think it has nothing to do with maskilim.
ReplyDeletea Yid
ReplyDeleteThat may be so, it may be a postcard, but it's a non-frum thing, probably from a theater performance. But even if it's a postcard, so what?
By "Maskilim" I mean free-thinkers, non-traditionalists, people who invested energy in things other than Torah and Avodah.
Yes, but would you let somebody else examine a horse before you bought it or would you examine it yourself.
ReplyDeleteIs being a baki and shas and poskim any infication of what kind of husband you will make? Not in my book it isn't. I have one question when it comes to shidduchim: is the guy a mentsch.
Yehuda L,
ReplyDeleteBut thats where youre mistake is. This isnt rocket science, but here goes:
1. Family researches the backgroung to find out the basics: Is he a mentch, are his family mentchen, what is he qualified to do, where did he grow up, learn, spend his time, etc.
2. Boy meets family, they faher him and try to get a feel for what kind of fellow he comes across to be. Also, since the idea is that he shoudl raise a Torahdige family, they want to see if he's chotch a ben-Torah, or if he spent his time in yeshiva hanging out in the coffee room.
3. Boy meets girl
If all is approved they get married. Mazal Tov.
The vetting process not that unlike a president looking for a supreme court justice or the like. If you think about it, this isn't all that bad a system.
Hirshel Tzig: Obviosuly some people posed for a postcard. There was a whole colelction of such presented recently in Peterburg.
ReplyDeleteYou can see some of them here:
http://www.jewpostcard.spb.ru/main/
Some of them there definitely maskilish, some are not.
On yours, they lav davke had anything bad in mind against Yiddishkayt. Why would they do a postcard depicting some scenes from traditional life otherwise? It doesn't look at all mocking or degrading.
My great-great-grandfather was tested by his shver on a blatt of his choosing, and passed with flying colours. After the wedding it transpired that that was the only blatt he knew; his brother had taught him it only so he could pass a farher.
ReplyDeleteA Yid
ReplyDeleteI thank you for that wonderful link you posted.
Hirshel Tzig: I got a whole CD from them with this collection. There are nice postcards there. Today Yidn somehow don't make such ones any more. (You can find out more about it here: http://judaica.spb.ru/exbsh/ex4/Pcard_e.shtml)
ReplyDeleteAlso, in Peterburg they presented a very unique collection of photos by Shloyme (Solomon) Yudovin:
http://judaica.spb.ru/exbsh/ex13/judovin.shtml
You probably know about Anski's expedition. He was a maskil, but with some pintele Yid in him. He didn't hate Yiddishkayt, he was just tinoyk shenishbo and somehow wanted to create an archive with lots of information about life of Yidden in Russia planning to publish it later (pity it was never published). There is a huge sea of material kept now in different libraries in Russia and Ukraine. Including tons of unknown nigunim (recorded on wax cyllinders, today transfered to computer already!), and other similar material. Shloyme Yudovin was his photographer. He made a huge archive of photos of life of common Yidden in Russia. And somehow he shows his good feelings towards Yiddishkayt in his photos. He never managed to publish them. When communists came he tried to preserve his archive, but many of his photos were lost. Still a big amount of them still exists in many archives. Some of them were presented in Peterburg recently. However I didn't figure out yet, if it is possible to get them somehow on CD.
While such photos like works of R. Vishniak and A. Kacyzne are very known, they are mostly made in Poylin, Romania and in Hungary. Shloyme Yudovin worked a bit earlier and exclusively in Russia, before the bolsheviker klipo destroyed everything there, however his photos are almost unknown.
Der Yid
ReplyDeleteI browsed the first collection you linked to and found something quite interesting; a Frumme Yid with maskilim Pictures on the wall! was that common practice? did it come from the woman of the house or the young man that was influenced by them? Or was the whole thing propaganda by the artist?
I saw something like that. There is a card with the photo of "Sholom Aleichem" (Rabinovich) on the wall. As far as I understood it depicts some scene from his books, that why his picture is there. Most probably, the designer wasn't frum. But he wanted his publishing house to cater to a wide variety of customers. At least part of maskilim of that time didn't have hating feelings towards Yiddishkayt. They fell in the trap of haskolo, communism or whatever else, but they still could have some sentiments and feelings I assume. It wasn't so black and white, like evrey maskil being a hard cored hater of Yiddishkayt. Life was hard. It was like a klipo of avoydo zoro before. We can't really imagine how hard it was not to fall into it.
ReplyDelete